RAF Shawbury nurse 'put her hand up to colleague’s face', hearing told
A practice nurse at the Royal Air Force (RAF) has been accused of putting her hand up to a colleague’s face in order to stop her from talking.
Lisa Duncan made the accusation when she was giving evidence to a Nursing and Midwifery Council (NMC) substantive panel hearing about the alleged conduct of Deborah Hudson.
Mrs Hudson is accused of wrongly receiving and retaining payment for study leave which she was not granted for the purpose of attending a Primary Health Care (PHC) conference at the National Exhibition Centre in Birmingham on May 11 and 12, 2022. It is alleged she did not attend, and wrongly submitted expenses claims for those dates.
Mrs Hudson is accused of being dishonest because she knew she did not attend the conference, and was not entitled to claim expenses. Mrs Hudson denies this, maintaining that she did attend the venue.
She also does not admit that, on October 20, 2022, in a meeting with a colleague, she incorrectly stated that she had a certificate of attendance for the conference but had not brought it with her.
Another charge she denies is that her conduct was dishonest in that she knew she had not attended one or more sessions at the relevant PHC conference and/or not possessed a certificate.
However, Mrs Hudson has admitted that, on September 6, 2022, in a meeting with another colleague, she incorrectly stated she had attended one or more sessions at the relevant PHC conference, and had a certificate of attendance but it had been shredded.
At the time, Mrs Hudson worked at RAF Shawbury. One of her colleagues was Mrs Duncan, who was asked what their working relationship was like.
“When I first started, it was wonderful, lovely – she was very supportive and helpful,” said Mrs Duncan.
“And then as time went on, there were more challenging days. But then I would say it was 60 per cent lovely, 40 per cent challenging.
“Then, when we had a locum nurse start, it got more challenging and I would have lovely days where we would get on brilliantly. It was a lovely relationship.
“But then there would be days when I wouldn’t be spoken to all day, for no reason I could see. Some days were great, and other days Debbie was unpleasant.
“I did a meeting once and asked about morale because it seemed to be low. But everyone was like ‘it’s lovely, it’s great’.
“Debbie wouldn’t talk about her life outside work very often. Sometimes she would, and at the very beginning she would let me in. But then she stopped wanting to talk about anything.”
Mrs Duncan was told that in Mrs Hudson’s response bundle, she made reference to feeling bullied, intimidated and excluded within the workplace.
Mrs Duncan was asked if this was something that was raised with her.
“It was never raised with me,” she said.
“I always went out of my way. If there was a day when she didn’t speak, I would ask her if she was okay. She was quite unpleasant to other members of staff, so it was difficult trying to keep that working relationship across the board because we’re all profressionals and we’ve got patients coming in.
“I did ask if everything was alright on occasions and was there a reason for the change. You would never know which Debbie would turn up to work, if I’m honest. We had a couple of altercations where she put her hand up in my face when I was talking.
“I think the conversation did get heated, but she never gave me a reason why she got like that, and nobody else ever brought anything up like that.
“You can go to your line manager if you feel that way. The actual organisation is totally against that, and you can bring it up at any point to anybody. It was a very open working relationship.”
Mrs Hudson challenged Mrs Duncan about the accusation that she put her hand into her face when she was talking.
“I don’t ever recall that ever happening, and that is not something I would do to anybody,” said Mrs Hudson.
“I am a bit confused about that.”
In response, Mrs Duncan said: “I didn’t say you put your hand in my face, I said you put your hand up to my face, and you did do that. You did it on a couple of occasions.
“It is really upsetting when someone is talking and a hand goes up. It didn’t come near my face, it wasn’t in my face, it was just up at my face when I was talking as if to say ‘stop’.
“This wouldn’t have been when we were ever in a heated conversation, this was sometimes when I was just talking about something that you didn’t agree with. That was how I felt when the hand came up to my face, not in my face. You never put your hand on me. ”
Mrs Hudson said: “No, but I don’t do the hand up thing either. That is not something I would usually do. That ‘s not something I am familiar with and I don’t think I’ve ever done that to anybody.”
The hearing continues.
