Teen beauty spot drinkers are ramblers, not rebels
- Dave Burrows
Shrewsbury bishop is against gay marriage plan
Tuesday 14th February 2012, 10:59AM GMT.
The Roman Catholic Bishop of Shrewsbury has launched a fierce defence of traditional values and opposed Government plans to legalise gay marriage.
The Right Reverend Mark Davies said the planned changes would represent ‘nothing less than a seismic shift in the foundations of our society’.
Right Reverend Mark Davies
The Government is preparing to launch a consultation on the proposals next month with a view to legalising civil marriage for gay couples before the next General Election in 2015.
Same-sex marriage is not currently legal in the UK, but since 2005 homosexual couples have been able to enter into legally-recognised civil partnerships.
But Bishop Davies has attacked the plans and said politicians did not have the authority to change the meaning of marriage.
He said: “For the first time in our history a government is proposing to change the meaning of marriage and to re-define its identity as the life-long union of one man and one woman.
“What the Government now proposes to legislate into law constitutes nothing less than a seismic shift in the foundations of our society. By attempting to redefine marriage for society, politicians will find they have not only undermined the institution of marriage but obscured its identity for generations to come.
“For politicians of Christian conscience this will be a moment to resist the leadership of their own political parties together with every parliamentarian who recognises the Judeo-Christian foundations on which our society rests. Our voices must now be raised as clearly as they can be, in order to proclaim the God-given meaning of marriage.”
His comments were made in a homily given at St Wilfrid’s Church in Northwich on Saturday. Prime Minister David Cameron announced plans to consult on legalising gay marriage at the party conference in October.
“It’s about equality, but it’s also about something else – commitment. Conservatives believe in the ties that bind us; that society is stronger when we make vows to each other and support each other,” he said.
“So I don’t support gay marriage despite being a Conservative. I support gay marriage because I’m a Conservative.”
See also:
Sponsored Links
UK News
Most Commented
- Leader: Hospital parking suggestion simply nonsense
- Teen beauty spot drinkers are ramblers, not rebels
- Leader: Crimewave goes up with the mercury
- MP Owen Paterson opposed to same-sex marriages
- Letter: Who will foot public sector bill?
- Parking zones fear for Shropshire hospital workers
- Hospital 18-week waiting list down to 800
Shropshire Star on Twitter
Keep updated with the latest breaking news and content on our Twitter feed.
Lifestyle
Interactive Dining Out map
Hundreds of reviews by the Shropshire Star and Express & Star's teams to help you decide where to eat.
LIVE traffic updates
Road, rail and airport - latest
Our new, live traffic and travel updates service - check before you set out.
OUR NEW APP
Get the new Shropshire Star app
Download the Shropshire Star’s new app to your iPad or iPhone to get one week of access to our digital newspapers absolutely FREE.
shropshirestar.com
Popular sections
Useful links
I didn’t realise Bishops had anything to do with marriage. The ceremony for sure, but actual marriage…I always assumed that was a legal matter.
Report abuse
If you read the book of Genesis in the Bible, you will see that Marriage has been around for thousands of years and was originally not the legal ceremony that you appear to think of marriage as being, but when a Man leaves his mother and father to live with a wife.
“For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and they will become one flesh.”
Here we see the first wedding. We can conclude from this account in Genesis that marriage is God’s idea, designed and instituted by the Creator. In these verses we also discover that at the heart of God’s design for marriage is companionship and intimacy.
Report abuse
Does this book clarify the gender of the wife ?
Report abuse
Yes, it most certainly does.
Report abuse
The wife was a woman if that is what you are asking.
That is what the word ‘wife’ means. The woman who is married to a man.
Report abuse
You could have checked the definition in the Oxford dictionary: a married woman considered in relation to her husband.
Report abuse
Once again, an example of how christians cherry pick verses from the bible to suit their own ends. Less convienient or P.C. verses are always overlooked – don’t here many christians calling for cheating wives to be stoned to death. Either have the courage to follow the teachings of the bible to the letter or abandon it as the poisonous tripe that it is!
Report abuse
Surely a Reverend would realise that all people are equal and we as a country and race dont discriminate! if he has issues with it maybe he should leave the job he does as in this day and age gay/straight/bi/transgender and so on should all have the same values and be equal to the same respect from everybody!!!!
Report abuse
Sorry bishop but it is none of your business.
Gay marriages are civil secular arrangements and not beholden to your religion or church.
By all means, refuse access for these arrangements in your churches, however keep your nose out of secular legal activities.
Report abuse
Actually, to publicly recognize a particular type of relationship in law is to make it everyone’s business. Your business, my business and the Bishop’s business.
Report abuse
why should two gay people wish to marry in church??.
Why should any religion be dictated to and forced to marry people, who they have not got a desire to marry.
Why should we change the ruling to accommodate those that go against its teachings ?
Speaking as a member of The church of England I fail to see why any government should dictate to any religion on what is acceptable and who they have to bring in to their congregation .
This has nothing to do “only” with gay marriage why should we alter in order to pamper to those this or any government think we should do , and why do these people wish to join an organization which denounces their behavior?.
Report abuse
Marriage is a legal status.
The rest is mere showbiz.
The Bishop is commenting on the legal bit…which he’s free to do so…but his remit is the Showbiz side.
Hope that helps.
Report abuse
Your lack of respect for people religious views is amusing to say the least .
Report abuse
Respect is earned NOT deserved.
Report abuse
In what way have I demonstrated a lack of respect ? I am merely stating that Marriage as a legal entinty and the religious ceremony of marriage are two very different things.
In fact you are very wrong, I respect people of faith enormously. I feel very differently about religion though based upon commandment #1.
“You will have no God before me”
I believe that this is a clear statement, that God can only be known on a personal basis, by reading the religious text and taking your personal meaning from it, this is faith. This is an individual and *their* God before anyone elses. Religion on the other hand results in people taking their meaning from what someone else, a vicar, an iman, a priest for example, says it all means. This is a negation of any personal relationship with God. It is having a relationship with someone elses God. It goes against the first Commandment and as such is sinful. Discuss.
Report abuse
Respect in this matter is not earned learn what respect means ,when we are talking about someone respecting peoples views and opinions do not be so silly .
Report abuse
Yet more insular self-opinionated drivel: most non-bigoted people just get on with life without having to judge others, whether gay or merely “thick people” (with reference to your other racist comments within the Star’s forums).
Report abuse
Hey Nistagmus, you wouldn’t know that God said “You will have no God before me” if it were not for religion. I would not cast aside religion so lightly.
Report abuse
its 2012!!!! surely religion should be accepting of who people are not where their preferences lie!! there are many many people that go to church regulary that happen to be gay or other and this should not matter or be discriminated! we all live on one small little planet surely the sooner people, the church yourself, take a better view and see that this is part of everyday living on our planet and is never going to go away we can all just be accepted and not discriminated and treated differently! why shouldnt we get married in church is thats what we want just coz one isnt wearing a wedding dress!!!???? simple really!!!
Report abuse
No we do not alter to pamper to people lifestyle choices .
Report abuse
Yes you do. The Church changes all the time. The Curch of England only came into being in the first place to suit Henry VIII’s lifestyle choice. There are plenty of examples of the church changing tack on issues over the years.
And as for the Catholic faith, well, have you noticed there are no popes or bishops mentioned in the bible? The hierarchy of the church, the whole shebang – was set up by men who had a subjective view of how things should work. And a vested self interest. Not exactly the word of god.
Report abuse
1) If sexuality is a choice, please advise when you chose to be heterosexual.
2) You don’t need to alter to accept homosexuals – Did Christ have anything bad to say about Homosexuals ? If so, quote it. Dis he even make a single reference to Homosexuals ? As a keen bible reader I’m sure you know the answer already.
Report abuse
Hey pickaxe, as for the Catholic Church:
Have you noticed that there is no Trinity mentioned in the Bible? That must be a man-made invention too.
Report abuse
“Gary” clearly the type that label people raciest based on what not agreeing with what SOME think is acceptable .
Report abuse
Do you really have to have an (uneducated) opinion on EVERYTHING???? Your lack of grammar means I (and I’m sure many others) don’t even understand your point. But clearly you have something you’re trying to express on EVERY subject. Please try to be clearer so we can at least understand and agree or disagree with you.
Report abuse
Absolutely right ‘biscuit’. Couldn’t have said it better myself. The answer is that they desire respectability and think that if they cant make the church do what it wants even though its tenets forbid their activities, it will destroy it. What a fascist lot! Do what we want or we will destroy you.
Report abuse
Before the commenters get the boot in with their views about how disgusting gay marriage is or how this represents the latest attack on Christianity or whatever dog whistle they’ve listened to today…
I support gay marriage. As a gay christian I’d like to be in one some day.
Report abuse
Who you happen to fall in love with has nothing to do with whether or not you are a Christian.
It is absurd that the bishop happily allows many people to marry in the church who are not religious but discriminates against gay people……
Report abuse
So, he is anti gay marriages. Has he got an opinion on the MANY cover ups, by the catholic church, on the recently pulicised child abuse cases. Some of these were of a homosexual nature, but apparently it is OK if it’s one of theirs.
When he gets rid of his double standards, people may be inclined to take a bit more notice of him, until then I think he ought to shut up.
Report abuse
Well said Colin, talk about the Catholic church being hypocrites, all the cover ups with Priests and the like molesting choirboys, surely they should get their own house in order before “preaching” the rights and wrongs of somebody elses sexual preferences.
Report abuse
Hear, Hear!
I put something along similar lines, probably been moderated out though :)
I think they were promoting and shuffling their “black sheep” about to cover it all up, which hardly covers them in glory, too.
Report abuse
If it comes to light that a teacher, for example, has been involved in child abuse, do we blame all teachers? Does the teaching profession become somehow evil over the actions of one teacher? Or do we fix the problem?
Yes, there have been horrendous crimes committed by priests, and maybe the Church has not handled the situation well at all, but I daresay you will find that the vast majority of priests are not part of the problem themselves, they are part of its solution.
Report abuse
Unlike the Bishop, I don’t see anything intrinsically wrong with seismic shifts in the basis of our society. They’ve happened many times in the past – the introduction of universal suffrage, the abolition of slavery, the legal rights endowed by Magna Carta, freedom of (and from) religion. These were always opposed by reactionary elements, but progress won out in the end.
The Bishop is of course entitled to his opinion, but it needs to be pointed out that marriage predates the Judeo-Chritian mythology; it did not arise from it. His opinion should carry no more weight than anyone else’s, even if the newspaper feels his views are worthy of reporting.
Report abuse
Stevie, ever read Genesis ?
Report abuse
The Bishop has no problem with discriminating against gay people. Does that make it all right for me to discriminate against Roman Catholics?
I seem to remember from reading the Bible many moons ago that Jesus would basically hang around with anybody and was an open-minded kind of guy. What a shame that this Bishop doesn’t follow that example.
What possible difference does it make to this Bishop’s life if gay people he doesn’t even know or have contact with get married? None, whatsoever.
Report abuse
Why would anyone be against two people who love each other getting married and spending the rest of their lives together? We should be moving forward, not backward.
Report abuse
They are not married though,this is a civil partnership we’re talking about, by all means bless the partnership in a church if the priest is comfortable with it, but calling it a marriage is like calling a Ford Sierra a Cosworth just because it has a similar tail spoiler, it just isn’t.
Report abuse
its actually talking about legalising same sex MARRIAGE as we can already have a civil partenership! this is for us having the same rights for getting married in church and being recognised! says simply in the article!!
Report abuse
Marriage is a legal union.
Try getting married in a church without doing the legal paperwork and see how far it gets you.
Funnily, or tragically, enough, I once went to a Catholic wedding where the above was attempted. It was a lovely day and we had a great shindig that evening, but I have to report that it was a tad embarrasing for all involved. It was like Deja Vu a fortnight later, but this time all went smoothly for the previously red-faced couple. Happy times….ahhh.
Report abuse
Re ‘a seismic shift in the foundations of society’? Why should anyway object to people loving each other?
Report abuse
Sorry – I meant anyone, not anyway.
Report abuse
Typical of Shrewsbury, still living in the dark ages!
Report abuse
Its not typical Shrewsbury, just because he’s Bishop of Shrewsbury doesn’t mean he has anything to do with most people who live here. The man is a narrow minded fool and I certainly don’t share his opinion.
Report abuse
I am pleased that you do not share his opinion Marg, But the amount of homophobia I have received while I was living in Shrewsbury will back-up my last posting. There was me thinking that Shrewsbury was quite cosmopolitan, when in fact the amount of homophobia directed towards me and my (then) partner was like something out of the Victorian era. It resulted in us moving to Telford,a town with a much better acceptance of people whatever sexual orientation.
Anyway, back on to that homophobic,sexist Bishop.He needs to look at his own Church first before criticising other peoples lifestyles.
Report abuse
I’m sorry that you’ve experienced homophobic attitudes in Shrewsbury but as someone who has lived in town centre for several years I’ve rarely encountered a problem against me or my friends. There are many welcoming pubs and C21 has a specific ‘gay night’ on Mondays. I don’t know when you lived in Shrewsbury but I have to strongly diasgree with your above statements.
On the other matter it is good see that the vast majority of comments on here do not support the Bishop of Shrewsbury.
Report abuse
Benbow Tom. It was over 15 years ago when C21 was just known as the Peach Tree that I had problems. Myself and my partner at the time were subject to abuse from people in our neighbourhood and it resulted in us having to move out of our flat in Whitchurch Road.
Thankfully it seems that attitudes have changed now … apart from that Bishop of course!
Report abuse
I AGREE WITH U ALL AND THANKFULLY IN THIS DAY AND AGE MOST PEOPLE SEE THAT BEING GAY OR ANY OTHER ORIENTATION IS A PART OF LIFE AND SHOULD BE ACCEPTED! WE ARE IN 2012 THINGS CHANGE THE PLANET CHANGES AND SO DO PEOPLE SO THE SOONER THE VERY FEW SMALL MINDED PEOPLE THAT DISAGREE LIKE THE REVEREND WISE UP TO THIS THE BETTER AND EVERYONE CAN JUST CARRY ON WITH EVERY DAY LIFE WITHOUT WORRYING ABOUT UPSETTING PEOPLE!
Report abuse
STEVE ONE, You have upset me.
Report abuse
May i suggest you do not take this attitude in to many parts of the world you may well find yourself in a little trouble .
The UK permits the live and let live approach to the point that they fail to educate the ones who live in the way you say, on the fact many in the UK will disprove and many countries will treat you a little more severely.
This whole ting may not be that few disprove i think it has more to do with most are afraid to voice an opinion on it, may i suggest you WISE up on that.
Report abuse
I’m sure it wasn’t your intention but that post strikes me as a bit sinister and threatening.
You say the UK has “failed to educate” gay people that they might upset people by being honest about their orientation.
If there is a failure of education at all it is to successfully educate those ever dwindling numbers that are still bigoted against gay people.
Report abuse
Where did i say “failed to educate gay people ” i said fail to educate the ones who live in the way you say,
Which the (poster) described as “GAY OR ANY OTHER ORIENTATION” ie try going to some countries as non married hetro cple and share a double room, try kissing in public etc etc .
This is far more complex than people would have us believee and i am sure before long the irksome peter tatchell will put his twp pennies worth.
Report abuse
ah – silly me. I thought this article was about definitions of marriage in the UK. I hadn’t realised it was actually about pointing out differences in cultural norms around the world. Or indeed the use of “gay relationship” teaching materials in schools. Or the involvement of PCSO’s in playground spats. Indeed pretty much every point you have made in this debate escaped me when I was reading the actual article.
I guess it takes the razor-sharp intellect of someone like yourself to see the hidden subtext that is not obvious to a thicky like myself.
Thanks for your help MBTIE
Report abuse
I’m prefectly happy with Civil Partnerships – it gives me all of the legal rights and recognition that I need. But there are flaws which need sorting out, particularly around back-dating pension rights and the unfair way that married transexuals are treated. Equal civil marriage would be welcomed. As far as I know, Christianity doesn’t have exclusive rights to marriage or use of it as a trade mark!!
I don’t quite understand why gay people – who have continually been persecuted by Christians in the name of God – would want to wed in the church. But each to their own.
And have to say, getting quite a warm fuzzy feeling with all the positive comments posted here so far
Report abuse
PS Davey, I used to be close to the academic side of LBGT politics and came across this very recently… In Sweden (home of liberal democracy)trans people have to be sterilised if they want to change their gender on their birth certificates.
Report abuse
Homosexual? Bisexual? Heterosexual? Why not be Trisexual? Try anything….but make sure it’s safe.
Report abuse
The Bible states that marriage be between man and woman to allow ‘procreation’ of children.
Would all those sterile and incapable of bearing and carrying children and also those who do not wish to have children kindly go and get divorces – you also should not be permitted to marry.
Sound kinda stupid? So is preventing two people regardless of their sex to marry and spend their lives with their partner!
Report abuse
Well said!!
Report abuse
Religion is generally the course of many issues in the world!
Many religions say how people should respect each other, treat each other equal, do not fight with each other…..however it far from reality as many contradict what their religion is supposed to be about.
Just because somebody is black or white,gay or straight, young or old, rich or poor, educated or not etc. it does not mean that they should be treated differently!
I personally work within a caring profession, I cannot judge someone for what or who they are are and to be honest, a bishop like Reverend Davies who is supposed to help and guide people shouldnt judge either!
Report abuse
“Just because somebody is black or white,gay or straight, young or old, rich or poor, educated or not etc. it does not mean that they should be treated differently!”
But when two things are different in a way that matters, then we should treat them differently. A trivial example: a white actor should not play the role of a black person in a movie.
Homosexual relationships are different to heterosexual relationships. Heterosexual relationships produce life, they produce children. So we must ask, is marriage oriented towards raising children? (I would say it is. And if it is then we need to consider the rights of the children too.)
Report abuse
There can be no such thing as a gay marriage, although you can have civil registration (no discrimination just common sense. Marriage is between a man and a woman.
Report abuse
According to Lady Hale, the big brain in the Supreme Ct (what used to be the House of Lords in its judicial capacity) the words ‘man and woman’ could be open to interpretation! Good for her.
Report abuse
Marriage is a human construct, predating the mythologies that are currently in favour. Therefore, it is up to society to define marriage.
In the Old Testament, polygamy was commonplace (cf Jacob, Rachel and Leah), as was marriage between those dangerously closely related. Our society has chosen to define marriage differently. We are perfectly at liberty to change the definition again or abolish it.
While it’s true that there “can be no such thing as a gay marriage” currently, a simple Act of Parliament can change that easily.
Report abuse
Considering the mess that the Roman Catholic church is in regarding gay priests and child abusing priests, perhaps the bishop should concentrate on putting the churches own house in order before raising his head above the parapet and condemning anything or anyone else
Report abuse
I would say the catholic church is in a mess with regards certain issues with SOME priests etc , however i would say the majority are decent moral upstanding citizens .
Report abuse
And included in your comment Mr/Mrs Biscuit Tin is the real truth (although I am not sure it was intentionally raised). In almost every sector of society the majority are decent moral upstanding citizens…..be that religious, gay, straight, bisexual, trans-gender uncle tom cobbley and all. It is a fact that despite what you may read, or the pontifications of certain people who are given a voice disproportionate to their relevence to society, the vast majority of people are good and kind and caring….the thing is that most people do it in a quiet, understated way. This is of course no use to the media who need statements to provoke polorised viewpoints and therefore go to organisations who they know will offer these extreme views. If you want my opinion about gay marriages, women priests etc etc….it is as follows…..(drum roll…) “i dont care” if people are happy, if people are kind, if people are decent then their gender or orientation is of as much interest to me as their hair colour or the size of their feet. Unfortunately this isnt an extreme point of view so tends to get shouted down in the race to take the moral high ground. Nonsense, nonsense and nonsense again from people who seem to think that we still need to segregate people and pidgeon-hole them….and whilst it is true that around the world there are places/people who take a bigoted and violent stance against anyone considered different, the fact that we do not take this attitude is a cause for celebration and nothing else.
As for the biblical argument, like any text from that region at that time you can get 100 different readings from 100 different people. Ask yourself a question, is the way a person conducts themselves in their life (with kindness, respect, love etc) more or less important than how they fit in with a text that was drafted by and aimed at a completely different group from the good people of 21st century Britain…and please refrain from the catch all “lack of respect” argument, not only is it tiresome it also smacks of weakness in your position and that surely cant be the case can it?
Report abuse
Btw, this a little off the point but there is an internet petition calling for the legalisation of gay marriage (not just civil partnerships) throughout Europe. The organisers are hoping for a million signatures. I don’t have the reference to hand but the search words are obvious. Best
Report abuse
I find his mans comments offensive and the Shropshire Star shouldn’t give him the time of day.
Report abuse
Marg it is called freedom of speech, I am rather amazed how many posters on here are looking through all this with rose tinted glasses .
As i have said i think many disapprove but feel afraid to say so . This may be perhaps why we have large gatherings of people who indulge in the gay lifestyle gathered and living in some major cities because they are more accepted in those areas.
Report abuse
“As i have said i think many disapprove but feel afraid to say so”
Are you suggesting that Christians are suffering, being forced to lead a false, inhibited life, suppressing their anti-gay feelings?
Report abuse
No not at all i also believe we have not got millions of gay people waiting to come out lol.
But i strongly believe that many gay people are misguided if they believe the majority are happy with live and let live we are forced by law to accept .
Report abuse
Marg, I concur. Bigot’s have no place in modern society.
Report abuse
i agree! freedom of speech is great but nasty opinions on people being gay and trying to live a lifestyle they have chosen is not! im pleased to see so many people supporting peoples choice’s to love whoever they want be it man, women or whatever as long as they are happy this is the main purpose in life!! ;-)
Report abuse
How can a person disagreeing with a persons lifestyle be nasty??, if people go through life having the opinion that everyone thinks they are lovely then they are surly gullible and misguided?.
Report abuse
I do not approve of gay marriage or come to that gay anything. I was brought up in an erra when to be gay meant that you were happy, sadly those days are behind us. I do not believe that any form of homosexual relationship is normal, so all together now, he is homophobic whatever that means, and he should be ashamed living on the 21st century with those bigoted views, but they are my views and I have a right to voice them.
Report abuse
Alfred Kinsey said “The only unnatural sex act is that which you cannot perform”.
I’m so glad you’ve taken time to tell me you don’t approve of “gay anything”. As an “anything” that fits within your disapproval I’m able to tell you that I forgive you of your bigotry and I hope you have a rich and blessed life.
Report abuse
Everyone has a right to their own views, your views are however not homophobic, to be homophobic means that you have an irrational fear of homosexual people, that is what a phobia is, I can’t say I have ever met anyone in my time on earth that was homophobic, I have met people that didn’t condone this form of sexual orientation but they didn’t fear or hate them.
Report abuse
Well said, Terry! These meaningless attack-words are used by politically correct fascists to silence their opponents.
See ‘ Frankfurt School’.
Report abuse
“I do not believe that any form of homosexual relationship is normal”
According to the 1999 publication “Biological exuberance : animal homosexuality and natural diversity” by Bruce Bagemihl, homosexual and bisexual behaviour has been observed in close to 1,500 animal species – from chimpanzees to gut worms – and is well documented for about 500 of them.
So I guess your view depends on whether you accept that natural is normal, or whether normality is a construct of your own mind.
Report abuse
I agree with GC. How the term ‘gay’ has been contaminated! Are the real words of homosexual and lesbian ones which the non-heterosexuals can’t face? I have no religious beliefs at all, but my view is that marriage – in any form, civil or religious – is between a man and a woman.
Report abuse
G.C. Well Said you have spoken for the majority of the world
Report abuse
I have a photo on my fridge of a wonderful friend who I worked under when she was a wonderful and inspiring nursing sister in the 1970s. It is her wedding day in Canada and she and Jeanne and all the guests look very gay, I mean happy!
Last time she visited old blighty we did disagree about religion her still being a christian.
Her and Jeanne’s sexuality is of no interest but I feel that the belief in christian values does slightly surprise me in someone for whom religion, whether christian or otherwise, has contributed hugely to the narrow minded views and discrimination she and Jeanne have encountered over the last 15 years.
Like many people maybe she confuses morality with religious belief and knowing that she is a deeply sincere and moral person feels that can only be displayed with a label, and maybe she needs that label more because of people’s views.
In answer to you GC if you really think that life was better in the not so distant past then read the story of the man who saved millions of lives and I don’t mean the fictitious one Jesus, I mean the terribly sad and disgraceful story of Alan Turing, who at the very least, considerably shortened WW11 with his mathmatical genius, breaking the enigma code.
The intolerance, ignorance and grip of the churchat that time combined with the legal system resulted in his suicide and the loss of a great, yet humble human being.
Report abuse
“Bishop Davies has attacked the plans and said politicians did not have the authority to change the meaning of marriage”
Marriage is a legal process, so they do.
Report abuse
I must admit it was a few years ago when the government pulled gay relationship books from school bookshelves due to parent disgust and never again to be returned .I did not see much toleration then.
Report abuse
‘Never to return’ ? Clause 28 was repealed in 2003.
And your point is;
a) The intolerance is a good thing?
b) That intolerance is a bad thing ?
c) That intolerance is either a good thing, or a bad thing dependent on the individuals view of what is not being tolerated ?
WWJD ?
Report abuse
I would also add my young child was talked to by a pcso for calling another child “gay” at school in the play ground .
This child’s parents called the police and made a formal complaint that he called him “gay” they the pcso visited us and said the other childs parents were upset because your son called him “gay” and he was upset that you had called him “gay ” he was then told it could be seen as homophobic behavior although i would add the pcso struggled with that word much to everyone’s amusement.
This is how silly it has all got when it comes to things such as all this , teachers saw it as a childish one off play ground incident which is why they never acted upon it apart from saying “hey cut it out”.
The point i had with the pcso,was were the parents complaining because he was called “gay a happy chap” or were they complaining because they disapprove of the gay lifestyle that the word “gay ” evokes??. The answer we got well they just did not like him being called “gay”
and he may have been implying to others that their son was “gay”. This is how silly and mad and pathetic this country has got. I would also add this young man is joining the forces if he got upset at that then he is in for a big wake up call.
Report abuse
I’ll look forward to the day when a child or grand child of yours comes out of the closet.
The look on their face when you instantly disown them will haunt you for the remainder of you sorry life.
Report abuse
On the basis of your, admiteddly odd, anecdote i have entirely changed my opinion of any relationship other than between a man and a woman.Of course the parents over reacted and once a complaint is raised the pcso is obligated to investigate, however this is clearly an indication that there is some form of PC conspiracy designed to force all school children to actively become “gay” (on a seperate note is there a reason that the word “gay” is always written as “gay” and not simply gay??).
This consipracy must be stopped and stopped now and surely the best way to do this is to stop people who love each other from entering into a legally binding marriage.
Whilst we are putting the finishing touches to our bandwagon we do need to construct a credible argument to those deluded fools that may say that this had nothing to do with gay marriage and everything to do with a society that still sees the word “gay” as a form of insult….once we have the argument licked then its all systems go….
Report abuse
“but they are my views and I have a right to voice them.”
I agree, you do have that right. And people have the right not to care in the slightest what you think about them. And if people think you’re being homophobic, they have the right to voice that opinion too.
Our elected representatives have the right to change the law, if they so decide, so that not only civil partnership but marriage is legal between people of the same sex.
(Personally I’m far more concerned that they also seem to have the right to drive a coach and horses through the NHS, but I’m entitled to my opinions too.)
Whether the church authorities allow the ceremony of marriage (as opposed to the legal entity) to take place on their premises is up to them.
Report abuse
The Bishop’s attitudes must be sad and upsetting for gay Christians who would like their ceremony in their place of worship. Until attitudes change – a suggestion. I got married at Shrewsbury Castle. It was very special (and the cost is just £200). I’m sure the registrar is not judgemental. She didn’t object to the best man, a lurcher dog!
Report abuse
Btw, I threw my flowers at a gay couple who have been together for 20 years. No chance of wearing a hat again yet!
Report abuse
“It’s about equality, but it’s also about something else – commitment. Conservatives believe in the ties that bind us; that society is stronger when we make vows to each other and support each other,”
What a better way to live that mantra than to allow all couples to celebrate their love in the same way, legally and religiously if they so choose.
“So I don’t support gay marriage despite being a Conservative. I support gay marriage because I’m a Conservative.”
It’s not about being Conservative, it’s about not being closed minded and judgmental.
Report abuse
I had to chuckle at the “seismic shift” bit. If they had a phrase like “seismic shift” around seventeen hundred years ago, they might have used it to describe the bludgeoning of a certain belief system by Roman invaders into the pagan population.
Report abuse
For the few contributors to thread who are anti gay consider this… Alan Turing’s code breaking work at Bletchley probably was instrumental in bringing WW2 to an early close. *Without him I suspect many of us would not be here now*.
He was prosecuted when homosexuality was a crime, accepted chemical castration instead of prison and took his own life at 41.
Report abuse
MBTIE, I remember a similar incident when my children were at primary school only on this occasion a lad was accused of making a racist comment.
The whole thing was badly handled by the teacher and my friend whose son was best friends with the lad whom he had called milk chocolate because his friend called him white chocolate took her son straight out of the school and he went to another school for his final two years.
It is good that children are being taught tolerance but a child should not be villified by a teacher in front of the whole school.
Learning to respect one another is so much better than all that mindless singing hymns that we used to spend an inordinate amount of time doing when I was little.
Report abuse
Is this man fit for office with such backwards and discriminatory views against the majority of this country who are not married and not christian!
Report abuse
As a married Gay Christian, im against the Bishop! Time for him to resign
Report abuse
I’m pleased to hear that Stonewall is getting involved. Heaven help the Bishop!!!
Report abuse
the sooner people like the bishop and people leaving comments against everyday normal relationships whether it be gay straight or whatever get over it and wise up to the century that we live in the better for the rest of us i say! and in previous comments made by ‘biscuit tin’ people dont leave smaller towns to go to cities to get more accepted they do so to better there lives however i have done this and returned to my small town of shrewsbury and feel very comfortable and excepted apart from the very few small minded individuals that make silly comments! so as a whole i would say our town is accepting just not the silly bishop who is representing us!!!!!
Report abuse
Unfortunately despite your varied travels and world experiences your grammar is sadly lacking. A well meaning piece that is short of that je ne sais quoi.
Report abuse
this post is not about grammer its about views expressed! clearly u are on of a small group that fill the very lonely empty seats that churches are trying to fill due to lack of respect for the real things and people going on around them to be honest i hope the bishop does read these comments by all that way he may wise up and realise views expressed like his and some others he wont get him anywhere with people nowadays its 2012 not the dark ages!!!
Report abuse
Oh dear… there is no problem with grammar – just punctuation. That is the nature of writing on the web. Silly, silly silly. Did you get a first in law?
Report abuse
i cant understand that you say gay marriage is not legal in the uk as i had a cival partnership in wellington when it was first accepted yet why did i have to go through divorce when i ended the realationship surely if it was not a legal matter divorce should not have come into the split….
Report abuse
The distinction between ‘marriage’ and ‘civil partnership’ is both a legal one and, to some, a religious one. Technically you do not ‘divorce’ from a civil partnership but ‘dissolve’ one.
Marrying couples can have a civil ceremony while civil partners are not entitled to a religious ceremony. To some that distinction is discriminatory. (I agree)
Report abuse
I’m sure the bishop is reading all of this and still believes he is not out of touch. And in the same thought, wonders why his church seats remain cold of a Sunday.
Report abuse
You’ll find that it’s the wishy-washy (‘let’s just make it up as we go along’) sort of churches that are struggling to put bums on seats.
The Catholic church,on the other hand,is doing very nicely, thankyou.
Report abuse
Well said, Bishop Davies! I’ve nothing against homosexuals but the militant few must accept that marriage should only be between a man and a woman.
As for ‘Dave’ Cameron? – Some ‘Conservative’ he’s turned out to be!
Report abuse
“the militant few must accept that marriage should only be between a man and a woman”
In the mean time, the enlightened, progressive majority do not.
Report abuse
Put it to the vote!! , one may be a little surprised. just because something is a little more popular and in the open or in fact legal does not mean the majority approve.
Report abuse
MBTIE,
As per my earlier response to you, your statements are confusing as to which way you think.
“just because something is a little more popular and in the open or in fact legal does not mean the majority approve”
Are you referring to homosexuality or heterosexuality here?
Or perhaps, being Conservative?
Report abuse
WU, I think he’s referring to being a Bishop.
Report abuse
what does it matter what genre you are you marry for love surpposedly, its time the church gave way a bit, i married for the second time an wanted a church wedding but had to have registar one, as my husband is catholic and they do not believe in divorced people gettin married in their church.
Report abuse
One only has to look at the long long list of gay child abuse by the church and the lenghts the church will go to to hide these crimes. These crimes are constantly arising in the press. The church needs to sort its own morals before decrying others.
Report abuse
Gary – It wasn’t ‘the Church’ that abused those children. The ‘gay child abuse’ was carried out by paedophiles who operated within the church.
Paedophiles have been found in all kinds of groups and institutions – everywhere from the police force to political parties. Yes, blame the paedophiles but it would be wrong to blame the actual institution or group too.
Report abuse
I am listening to Patti Smith (punk poet).. ‘Jesus died for somebody’s sins but not mine.’:)
Report abuse
Seeing as religion is basically all theatre and in truth moral values are an individual’s choice and conscience, all this rhetoric is meaningless IMHO.
Report abuse
im against religion but i have no right to tell people what to do with their lives, i have no public voice, no public subsidies and no power over the legislation of this country
unlike the bishops,
Get them out, they are conservative cronies, imposed on our democracy like some medieval despots, we are not IRAN! Get religion out of public life
Report abuse
Why should Christians pamper to you?? we have not got a desire to change our views and will never do so.
” we are not iran” correct what tunnel do you live in though ? gay, unmarried cohabitation by hetro cples, unmarried teenage mothers, etc etc and others what are seen as moral issues are not openly accepted in many parts of the world .
I would suggest you walk in to a travel agent as “any” of what i have quoted and ask which countries may have an issue with me? possibly will tell you none just so you buy a ticket but do your homework.
Close to home Italy on single unmarried women, a few other European countries on the same and gay relationships , the whole of the middle east , many parts of the USA many parts of Australia .
Tolerance is one thing whether people are accepting such behavior by choice is another it seems to be that we are confusing the issue big time . It is silly to tell people that what they do is accepted by all or even the majority it is not so why brain wash people in to thinking it is ?? it is the cruelest thing to ever do.
Report abuse
You are forgiven.
Report abuse
We live in a global community. In the ancient Asian, African, Australian and American Worlds, there was marriage and it was between a man and a woman
Report abuse
When Peter Tatchell was interviewed after the powerful homosexual lobby won their victory over civil partnerships he said ‘NEXT IT’S MARRIAGE AND THE FAMILY’. If anyone believes that this is a benign movement they had better think again. These are some powerful media dudes who dont take prisoners. We are given some weak assuances that churches dont have to perform this ceremony if they dont want to, but thats what was said about Christians in the workplace who had to give up their jobs because their consciences wouldn’t allow them to do certain things. Remember the many Chritian businesses and adoption agencies which have had to close down after homosexuals made a bee-line for them ? If it’s the law that homosexuals can marry and a church refuses to do this, then that church will be breaking the law and will be closed down.The bible, the basis for the Judeo Christian faith, forbids homosexual sex over and over again.Jesus said he did not come to change the law, so how can anyone on the planet not understand that Christians are not being mean or spiteful about this. Its in our very foundations that God wants men to marry women. Thats His plan and design. What part of that do people not understand? I’m afraid this issue will see the downfall of the church in this country and the world. But then, that’s satans plan.
Report abuse
What a dinosaur, no wonder this couuntry went protestant, these catholics are still living in the dark ages
its time for this country to separate religion and state fully and respect ALL religions and aetheism equally not the CoE or worse still this medieval unreformed catholism
Report abuse