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Call for speed limits on ‘lethal’ south Shropshire road
Thursday 3rd February 2011, 2:37PM GMT.
RESIDENTS ARE being forced to take their lives in their hands with traffic travelling at speeds of between 80mph and 120mph on a “lethal” south Shropshire road, it has been claimed.
A number of people in the Corvedale have called for more traffic-calming measures as well as the increased enforcement of speed limits on the B4368, which links Craven Arms with Much Wenlock and Bridgnorth.
David Clarke, of Hopesay Parish Council, said all rural roads in Shropshire should have a 50mph speed limit.
The ideas were put forward at last night’s meeting of Craven Arms and Rural Local Joint Committee.
It comes after a motorcyclist died in an accident on the B4368 in October and residents used the meeting to tell councillors and police officers about the problems they faced daily.
West Mercia Police has pledged to meet groups of motorcyclists to try to educate them about road safety and carry out speed checks on rural roads in the area.
But Inspector James Dunn, who is based in Ludlow, warned he had limited resources and said villages could not all be monitored all of the time.
Kate Wadley, of Corfton, said: “We do not want to be another statistic. I often have to walk along the road from Corfton to Diddlebury and I’m taking my life in my hands every time. It’s lethal.
Tim Teague, of Abdon and Heath Parish Council, said: “There are some people riding bikes at up to 120mph, speeds at which they could lose their licence.”
Mr Clarke said: “A blanket 50mph speed limit on rural roads throughout Shropshire would reduce accidents, fuel consumption and carbon emissions.”
Jim Halley, of Aston-on-Clun, said other rural roads in the area needed monitoring.
The Right Reverend Alistair Magowan, Bishop of Ludlow, who lives in Corvedale Road, called for the speed limit out of Craven Arms to rise gradually from 30mph to 40mph to 60mph.
Mr Dunn said: “We are going to put a bid in for more force resources to tackle this.”
By Peter Kitchen
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Whilst never condoning speeding I have to comment,
What evidence is there of the quoted 80 to 120mph? Is the problem real or percieved?
Reducing the speed limit will never solve the problem, if people will break a 60mph limit why would they change their behaviour if the limit were to be lowered to 50mph. Only education backed up with enforcement will reduce speed.
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But the rural roads now have a deresticted limit of 60 mph and that is clearly being ignored. Not sure that a 50 mph limit will change anything. Mobile speed cameras may do the trick, try and hit the offenders with fines and points.
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SEE PETITION: http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/roadsafetyb4368
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Thanks Wildthing – as a resident of the Corvedale myself, I have seen a lot of speeding and ridiculously dangerous driving and riding practices. Not to mention the amount of noise the bikers produce on a Sunday – constant drones from 7am to 8pm, you honestly cannot be heard in a conversation for the noise. I feel sorry for those who live directly by the road.
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Extract from the petition text:
“60mph for this small and winding road is NOT a safe speed limit”
Small and winding? Are we talking about the wide road with several 1/4 mile straights? It’s generally straighter and wider than many A roads in the county.
If anything’s going to damage the effectiveness of a petition, it’s gross exaggeration.
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Why is the petition signed in the main by women(are women better judges of speeds and road safety than men?) and why does it ask for a donation afterwards?
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There are long straight bits that are as wide as any road. But unless they have changed it since I last drove it, there are some very tight corners, and one section that is only wide enough for a single car at a time.
But I agree, people making petitions always weaken their case by not sticking to the facts.
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and if you look closely you can see someone doing 120mph just disappearing round the corner
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“RESIDENTS ARE being forced to take their lives in their hands with traffic travelling at speeds of between 80mph and 120mph”
Well, no exaggeration there then!
I’ve travelled this road many times and found the majority of traffic to be doing about 45MPH and mainly below 60MPH.
Either the “residents” need to get their speedgun recalibrated or their imaginations fine tuned.
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Indeed Roadrunner – meep meep – I go down this road twice everyday and your comment is spot on.
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I wonder just how lethal this road is?
A quick google to Shropshire Councils Rural Speed Limit policy (which lists the accident rate for rural roads) puts the accident rate for this exact road at 16.15/100MVKMs, the national average is 35 A/100MVKMs and roads above 35A/100MVKms are rated as seriously in need of change so the figures speak for themselves.
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” i wonder just how lethal this road is ”
There’s no such thing as a dangerous road, its the idiots that drive too fast on them that are dangerous.
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In that case then, this whole topic is pointless, it’s not a lethal road cos spency says so.
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Name calling on the internet. Thats big of you.
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Roadrunner, you just lost all of your credibilty. Shame.
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the roads already have a speed limit of 60mph so putting it down to 50mph will stop people speeding?
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Not sure about a speed limit reduction, but an enforced HGV ban would make this road a lot safer.
They should be using the A49/M54.
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Meanwhile in Telford … ‘traffic management’ are putting in pedestrian refuges on the Horsehay bypass where there are no pedestrians and no pavements and reducing the speed limit from 60 to 50, and 40 in places because residents are worried about speeding.
The refuges are there to enforce the slower speeds, which are fair because – that’s what people are driving at anyway! (No, me neither).
And no, there haven’t been any accidents, at least until the holes for the refuges were left unlit at night and one got cones and barriers splattered over the road.
I’ve travelled that road at least 10 times a week for at least 10 years and never seen one solitary pedestrian trying to cross.
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Yes Kath and again this is a low risk road with accident figures only a fraction of the national average but our so called “cash strapped” council, can waste many thousands just to satisfy a couple of nimby’s who want to live in an area of low speed limits.
The reason for the islands would be to increase the “risk factor” of the road to justify a 40MPH limit, the road is not “risky”enough for a 40MPH limit but these obstacle make it more dangerous to judtify lower limits…you couldn’t make it up but it’s exactly why all the other 40MPH limits in Telford have to sprout the same obstacles.
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Well said. Nice wide straight road now down to 40 and 50 mph with refuges. Lots of money spent to what effect ?
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Painting numbers on the road does nothing. Taking money from people’s pockets would soon solve the problem. But there must be some kind of law against hidden speed cameras. Infringing human rights or some such cobblers.
That road does have its fair share of idiots. I’d hate to live beside it.
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Living in one of the villages situated off this road I qualify as a resident and can confirm that speeds on this road ARE dangerously excessive. Most worrying of all is that many people ignore the 30mph limits that have recently been imposed through the villages. I am no advocate for needless speed cameras but the one speed camera site at Broadstone, which is a 40mph limit, is certainly effective. What many non residents/ country drivers/ boy racers/ born again bikers fail to recognise is that this is a road that is used by numerous farm machines which access onto and off the road at the many side junctions. I have witnessed many a motorcyclist/ motorist driving at ludicrous speeds along this road and several near misses when they have crested a hill or rounded a bend to find a slower moving vehicle ahead.
Whilst I agree speed alone does not cause accidents, speed with poor knowledge/ over confidence and a lack of awareness when driving on rural roads does kill!
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So considering your comment, do you really think lowering the speed limit is the answer? Lowering the speed limit will only frustrate the law abiding citizen (which most are). Once again the actions of a few idiots will affect the way most of us are able to get about. Until you address the root cause, eg educate the motorcyclists and force them to face the consequences (their own mortality), there is no point in reducing the speed limit. If the one speeding loses his/her life then so be it. It may be hard but the motorcyclist will always come off worse than the car driver.
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How many people have died on this “lethal” road in the last 5 years?
The yokels would soon moan if a 30mph speed limit was imposed and “sleeping policemen” were put in place.
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Article advises >=1
But that’s it, I’m not doing any more unpaid research for you.
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How can dropping the speed limit that is being ignored anyway help?
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I get fed up with seeing the same old “drop the speed limit” knee jerk reaction to problems like this. Surely residents should be campaigning for enforcement of the limits that are already in place.
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By drop, I mean reduce. Dropping the speed limit would imply removing it.
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In total agreement!
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“Most worrying of all is that many people ignore the 30mph limits that have recently been imposed through the villages”
Many speed limits are being introduced to hamlets that don’t qualify as “villages” by Department for Transport guidelines, which may explain why motorists are ignoring 30MPH limits in places that aren’t really villages. Do these “villages” have 20 or more properties fronting the main road, Shropslad?
If not then they shouldn’t have 30MPH limits anyway.
Motorists, in the main, aren’t stupid, which is why there is realistically, a low accident rate on this road.
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Road runner you obviously have too much time on your hands…
You seem to want to justify driving at above 30mph on what you interpret as a point of law. I would like to see you contest a speeding conviction using this as your defence!
Whether or not you believe a 30 mph limit should be in force, it is the speed limit so stick to it. No doubt you are one of the irresponsible group who choose to ignore the speed limits wherever they may be but to use the logic that because there are fewer than “20 houses fronting this road” is idiotic in the extreme. Furthermore, you seem to fail to acknowledge the wider issue which is that the speeds at which some travel on this road in the national speed limit areas frequently exceed 60mph which is inappropriate given the number of unseen threats that can and do often appear around many a corner.
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Shroplad, you seem to believe that safe driving is all about speed, well it isn’t it’s about reading the road and conditions and matching your speed to those…. NOT a number on a sign dotted around the countryside.
The Department of Transport has road safety experts to designate how to set speed limits. If our local council go against these guidelines it isn’t going to help our roads become safer as sensible drivers will ignore stupid limits, to drive at what they know to be a sensible speed but inexperienced drivers will also question the sense behind speed limits and drive faster than the limit but not always safely.
This is why Britain has dropped so far behind the rest of Europe in safe roads, speed limits are going down but overall safety isn’t.
The accident figures for this road speak for themselves. It’s not a high risk road.
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This will be welcomed by one and all of the locals until they are the one that gets zapped by the speed cameras and will then play merry hell as to why the police aren’t after real criminals.
Before we know it they’ll be renaming it Royston Vasey.
“This is a local road for local people”
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…it already is in all but name!
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I wish people would realise that there’s more to accidents than speeding. Speeding causes a small proportion of accidents. Many more are caused by inattention, bad road design etc.
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This is not a case of ‘bad road design’, it is a case of muppetry, where people are unable to identify potential road hazards.
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There have been several accidents resulting in a death near my home. Each time the cause is put down to any reason but the fact the drivers we speeding. The trouble is they were speeding, over 100 mph in a 30 zone on an extremely difficult bend caused the accident. If they were travelling at the correct speed limit then these deaths would not have happened.
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Thing is, Adam, there are people who regularly comment on this forum who would put the person driving at 100mph in a 30 zone in the same bracket as someone driving at 35mph. To them, it’s black and white. Faster than the posted speed limit automatically implies a crazed, dangerous nutter with no regard for the safety of themselves or others.
Out of interest, how can an accident involving a vehicle travelling at 100mph be put down anything *but* excessive speed?
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I agree, people exaggerate but this is the speed the police investigation came up with.
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Whereabouts is this extremely difficult bend ? I’d like to know so I can take care.
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I wonder how many of these collisions involve farm vehicles?
From my experience the biggest danger on these roads is from Fmr Giles driving down the road in his John Deere busily talking on his Nokia to Molly the milking maid to arrange a secret rendezvous at one of the haystacks.
Let’s get the plain police vehicles down there and do a check on the driving standards which we all have to comply with but seems sadly lacking once you get in something with big wheels.
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Are you a townie, Stokey?
The Corvedale happens to be primarily an agricultural area with spikes in farm vehicle activity during the harvests. I have lived here long enough to see these hard working farmers drive in an examplary manner, occasionally pulling over to let the trail of cars go by and signalling at the right time. It’s those who don’t understand the area and get very impatient with these slow moving vehicles, and don’t understand country life that cause the accidents.
Earlier in the day, when we had that horrific bike accident last year, there were a lot of tractors bringing in the potato harvest – and whilst we were on the road, I saw two near misses with impatient drivers. It did not surprise me to find out that there was a loss of life that day.
The signs are sufficient too, warning of traffic pulling out of side lanes. People just need to keep their wits about them. The UK is overcrowded with vehicles – we all can’t be petrolheads these days.
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Well said Bob.
I mean how dare these farm machines be allowed to use the road, next thing we’ll have people complaining about mud on the roads in the countryside… ;-)
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How many prejudicial stereotypes….? Stokey, may I ask where you think you would be without the farmers you’re so quick to malign?!
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Here is a suggestion that seems to be catching on in the USA.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2xnWYx8YK8&feature=player_embedded=
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It would never work especially in West Mercia for any one (or combination) of the following reasons
1. Clouds too low
2. Wind speed too high
3. Too much rain
4. The helicopter’s at Oxford being serviced
5. The pilot’s not had enough rest
6. We’re over our hours for the month
7. Have you tried a police dog first?
8. I’ve got a pasta-bake just about ready in the oven
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I sense an Airplane moment coming on…..
“Rev Alistair Magowan give us your impression of the dangers of speeding vehicles?”
“I’m sorry I don’t do impressions, that’s Alistair Mcgowan, he’s the one that drives a Ferrari”
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The most dangerous thing on roads in Telford and Wrekin (and the rest of country for that matter) are the huge potholes and damaged surfaces. Yet we have these non-urgent ‘refuges’ being built at Horsehay.
As for this road I have to agree reducing speed limits won’t do much, if someone breaks a 60mph limit by doing 140mph then why would a 50mph speed limit have an effect?
Any speed is dangerous if you don’t read the road ahead and by ahead I don’t mean the car in fronts bumper. Good drivers notice whats going on as far as the conditions allow them and drive acordingly.
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one of the main problems with business in this county is the long travel times, the last thing we need is more speed limits, we need more fast roads, dualing the a5 and a49 for example not restricting roads
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The biggest danger to other road users are those drivers with heads so large that they can hardly fit them into the vehicle.
There seem to be quite a few reading this post besides roadrunner who always kmows more than the rest us.
Sorry that you must be a lass after all shropslad, it must have come as quite surprise when roadrunner informed you.
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I like it when they say things like ” i do 40k + miles a year” and then claim to be outstanding drivers because of said miles.
Private hire drivers do at least that and i’m sure they are among the worst..
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I like it when surgeons say “I perform this procedure many times each month” and then claim to be outstanding surgeons because of said experience.
It’s generally accepted that there’s a correlation between experience and competence.
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There is a slight exaggeration going on here, as there is no way that cars and/or motorbikes can do speeds up to 120mph on this road, fact!
I did not know the usual suspects are “experts” in many subjects on these forums, it never fails to amuse me.
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Roadrunner can, and whats more he can do it without being a danger to others.
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“Roadrunner can, and whats more he can do it without being a danger to others.”
Well that’s another thing that you’re wrong about Spencer, I’m one of the few claiming that those speeds are going to be wildly exaggerated and I very much doubt that anyone has been clocked at 120MPH on this road, especially a privete hire driver…so they can’t be all bad!
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“There is a slight exaggeration going on here, as there is no way that cars and/or motorbikes can do speeds up to 120mph on this road, fact!”
Yeah they can, I’ve seen ‘em. There are some really long, straight sections near the Morville end of the B4368. Most cars would struggle, fair enough, but most half decent bikes could easily hit 120mph before they’re even half way down the straight.
Whilst I’m not one for creeping around cautiously liked a frightened mouse on our roads, I wouldn’t like to be in the same vicinity as cars or bikes driving at speeds like this.
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Woody, I know they can do that speed easy, I did it in my reckless days (when I was young) in the mid nineties on a 1200 bandit Suzuki, on this stretch of road, bikes nowadays are even quicker so would easy make that speed on some of the straights !
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I stand corrected. But if these speeds can be attained by motorbikes then how long would it take to stop? I am sure the person doing that spped and the object they may hit would both be dead, should the object be an animal or human! Hence, I guess, they really are stupid to go that fast in the first place.
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Nail hit firmly on the head. No matter how good the brakes are, the distance travelled during the reaction time is far greater at 120mph than it is at 60mph. Twice as far, unsurprisingly.
Standard assumed reaction time is 1.5 seconds. At 60mph that’s 40 metres, at 120mph it’s 80 metres. Now look out of the window and try to find something 80 metres away. If that pops out in front of you, you’re going to hit it before you hit the brakes. At 60mph, you stand a good chance of missing it (on a dry road the total stopping distance at 60mph is conservatively calculated as 74 metres), hitting it at a much lower speed, steering around it or putting the vehicle into the hedge with only minor damage.
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“Sorry that you must be a lass after all shropslad, it must have come as quite surprise when roadrunner informed you.”
Blimey, Eva, where did that piece of wisdom come from,where did I accuse Shroplad of being a lass?
Please enlighten us all or have you been on the sherry….. again.
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It always amazes me, to see certain names which seem to crop up on forums like this, where they contribute nothing to the debate apart from snide one liners and I often wonder if they are just here to cause trouble.
It would be interesting to see if these people actually thought that reducing the limit to 50MPH would actually stop the so called “120MPH speeders” or whether they have any other useful contribution to the problem, that the residents along this road seem to think that they have.
Just a thought!
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If you get caught doing 80 in a 60 zone you will get 3 points and a small fine ( big deal ). Yet if you get caught doing 80 in a 50 zone its 6 points and a much bigger fine which equates to more idiots out of cars and on the bus.
I don’t know abot you but i would consider that a better deterrant.
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I think the point is that people are jumping up & down and demanding a lower speed limit, but they’re barking up the wrong tree because little or nothing’s being done to enforce the existing one. A speed limit of 50, 40 or even 30 wouldn’t be a deterrent if it’s known that it won’t be enforced.
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I ride the road often, its only slightly busy with bikes on a sunday, one or two reckless riders out of the tens that use the road, Some folk make it sound like its the british superbike rounds. In my experience local residents might want to try looking before they pull out of their drives on other road users…..Oh sorry I forgot I am doing 120mph !!! on my Harley !!! YER RIGHT. Anyway speed never killed anyone……its the sudden stopping that kills :-)
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LOL Barry,
You drive the road often, but you don’t live near it? Or are you trying to wind people up?
If you lived near it, you would be fully aware of the amount of biker traffic on a Sunday. Yes, it seems like the British superbike rounds, especially on Bank Holidays. Take a trip to Craven Arms and see how full the greasy spoons get at the weekends!
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I live in the corfton area too and the bikes do travel far too fast but so too do the car/van drivers, especially delivery drivers. My kids go to the school in Diddlebury which is also a reason why its a 30mph. Imagine if the kids are on their day out trips when these lunatics are about. That said reducing the limit won’t work, need more of those flashy signs.
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They might travel to fast for your liking but there has yet to be a shred of hard evidence that anyone has exceeded any speed limit on this road. The locals might think that speeding occurs and they do not seem shy about shouting about it.
There are 2 issues here, one is perception -Are your eyes and ears calibrated to give an accurate measurement of the speed of a moving object?
The other is demonising motorcyclists.
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Salopian, hit the nail on the head!!
With all these stupid lower speed limits that are encroaching on our roads, no wonder it takes twice as long to get anywhere.
As far as the 30mph limits that are appearing in dippy little hamlets, I was always under the impression that there have to be street lights to make a 30 limit enforceable
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What exactly have you contributed roadrunner?
You have your own personal view of what constitutes a safe driving speed which may well be safe for the driver but does not take into account other road users.
You question the observations of those who live near the road and therefore do not have the occasional brief experience of driving on it as many posters here appear to base their judgments.
You then make quasi sexist comments based on more females signing a petition.
You also have your own personal view of what constitutesa village.
It is no good quoting figures from statistics.The highways planning department are required to take local views into consideration as they are the people who know how many often unreported incidents there are and know in what way the lack of speed limit enforcement affects their everyday lives.
It still remains the case that more women work part time than men and the job of getting children to and from school safely tends to fall to them. That may explain the larger number of them on the petition and may well qualify them to have more experience of the hazards of these speeding drivers. Isn’t that just common sense roadrunner, not a take over by the female species on the planet!
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Some interesting comments, some misguided, some plain stupid.
I am sat here typing this less than 10 metres from the B4368 in a little hamlet called Hungerford. The council have very kindly put a speed limit of 40mph on this particular stretch of road.This is probably because sadly there have been a number of deaths here where the inquests have found excessive speed to be a factor.
I’m going to try and NOT exaggerate what we are living with 365 days a year. I do not see motorcyclists travelling by at 120mph, I own an R1 and I know what 120mph looks like. Actually motorcyclists are generally the best behaved in terms of speed.
I will also add that I don’t care what people are doing once away from built up areas (no matter how small those built up areas are)
So here is what I do see, every day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year. It matters not what the weather is like; fog, rain, sleet or what time of day/night it is.
I can safely estimate that over 80% of drivers speed through our village, probably averaging somewhere between 55-65 mph. On the odd occasion, normally in the early and late rush hour (pun intended) there are some exceptionally daft drivers that think nothing of exceeding 80 mph.
They of course do this without any fear of prosecution. on the rare occasion that the speed camera van is around we get a brief but welcome respite.
Now, why am I bothered by it? is it really such a big deal? Is it my fault for choosing to live next to a road?
I think you would have to spend a day in my shoes to understand.
The noise a vehicle makes when travelling at 40mph is bearable. The noise an articulated truck makes going past at over 55mph shakes my house, wakes my kids and scares my dog. The road noise from cars travelling at speed is probably the single most annoying thing about living here.
I live on a slight bend. The sight of my wife trying to pull out of our drive safely to take my kids to school is one that strikes fear into my soul every day. When she has successfully negotiated the first hurdle it is seconds before someone is trying to cram their vehicle into the back of ours with all the standard accompanying gestures, flashing lights etc etc. clearly they have an emergency to get to?
If I lived in a 60mph limit I would accept this as part and parcel of living by a busy road, but I don’t. I observe speed limits in built up areas because I understand what those people are going through and I have some basic respect for others.
What also surprises me is the fact that we are not talking about “boy racers” here. This is all ages, both genders and even more surprisingly, professional drivers who clearly don’t regard their licence as something which can be lost. It is just prolific and unstoppable.
While I am here maybe the Shropshire Star could have a quick word with your delivery drivers as two of your vans have just gone past doing in excess of 60..might as well start somewhere.
There will be those that think I am exaggerating and that is understandable, like I say, come spend a day in my shoes. Also I don’t need my speed detection device calibrated, it is a military spec IR laser range finder and works very well, highest recorded speed was an old aged man in a 4×4 doing 93mph with his wife (I presume) sat next to him.
So what can be done? Nothing probably but here are a few ideas.
1. Maybe it is time to go back to concealed speed traps like they do in N Yorks, I believe that if someone thinks there is a serious chance of getting caught then they may change their attitude, especially those people that rely on having a licence for income.
2. Average speed check cameras for built up areas. It would work but very expensive.
3. Give residents the equipment to record offenders and then let the authorities prosecute those caught. It would make some people very unpopular but I’d volunteer for a stint. After 5 years in N Ireland and 3 operational tours in the Middle East I’m sure I could handle a couple of inconsiderate Shropshire drivers.
4. At least give us one of those signs that flashes up the actual speed of the vehicle travelling by, sometimes it makes people think. Plus, I can film it and put it on you tube to expose the idiots.
Ok,that’s off my chest. just one last thing to say.
Please slow down to within the speed limit when going through any village/hamlet.
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February 8, 2011 at 14:13
“If you get caught doing 80 in a 60 zone you will get 3 points and a small fine ( big deal ). Yet if you get caught doing 80 in a 50 zone its 6 points and a much bigger fine which equates to more idiots out of cars and on the bus.
I don’t know abot you but i would consider that a better deterrant.”
So Spencer, you would see drivers doing 60MPH in a previously 60MPH zone that has been lowered, being fined for breaking the law when they weren’t previously, WHY?
Where’s the common sense in that? Why not make the entire road a30MPH limit and then ban everyone doing 60MPH…makes life simpler which is where you seem to be coming from.
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PLEASE do not mess with the speed limits in Corvedale – enforce the limits we already have! It’s that simple. Far too many people ignore the 30′s in Diddlebury, Aston Munslow and Munslow and the 40 in Hungerford/Broadstone. There’s no need to penalise those of us who stick to the limit by swapping the national limit for 50mph. People who ignore the limits now will just ignore any new limits too. I would dearly like to see a traffic officer in our villages at 7am where any speed seems to apply.
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Jules – Spot on and I totally agree. Unfortunately I think it is a lost cause, the sheer amount of drivers completely ignoring these limits combined with the lack of any effective means to deter them means that we are stuck with it.
There is no money to enforce the speed limits, I also heard that we will be losing the speed camera vans after April although I can’t confirm it.
I am looking forward to the Summer when there are a lot more tourists on the road as they (generally) tend to stick to the limits and this in turn slows others down a bit. Sadly they aren’t normally on the roads at 7am which appears, as I think you agree, to probably the worst time (not much chance of a lay-in without ear plugs)
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