Blog: My condenser boiler hell
Wednesday 22nd December 2010, 9:11AM GMT.
Blog: It was another snowy, sub-zero night in Shropshire, writes Carl Jones.
Here I was, armed with a kettle of boiling hot water, floundering in the dark outside my mother’s house.
Yes, you guessed it – she’s got a condenser central heating boiler. You know, the kind which are breaking down all over Shropshire at the moment . . .
The panel on the front was flashing, and all the radiators had gone cold. Something was definitely up.
Being a white-collar type not particularly keen on fiddling with pipework, I phoned round a few plumbers to see if they could come to my rescue.
Very polite they all were (the ones I could get through to!), but the answer was the same: “Chock-a-block with emergencies. No appointments til after Christmas. Really sorry, but we’ve never known it so busy.”
Right then. Time to think laterally.
Condenser boilers, as those with the misfortune to possess one will know, have a pipe which protrudes outside the house, allowing the condensation to escape.
My mother’s system has a 2ft-foot section outside her kitchen wall, which runs down the brickwork and underground.
Having decided it might be frozen, I boiled four kettles, and systematically drizzled in over the pipes in the hope of de-frosting the blockage.
Suddenly, after about 30 minutes of hard graft, there was a snap, crackle and pop, and a sudden fizzing of water heading out of the house and under the ground.
I’d done it. Back inside, I pressed the “reset” button on the boiler’s front panel, and the radiators were warm as toast within 15 minutes.
So, good news, and bad. I saved myself £100-plus on an emergency plumbing call out, but now realise that every time the temperature dips below freezing I’m going to be worrying myself sick about mother’s radiators and racing round to boil the kettle.
It’s clear from the avalanche of comments on the Shropshire Star website that I’m not alone.
It’s all very well doing our bit in the UK to help combat climate change, but progress means replacing old systems with better, more efficient ones. Not those liable to throw a temperature tantrums.
And it does beg the question: If these boilers are clearly so prone to breaking down during the coldest of cold snaps – the time when vulnerable folk need them the most – are they truly fit for purpose in 21st century big-chill Britain?
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The other question about these boilers is are they really that energy efficient, when the extra complexity of manufacture and installation, plus more frequent visists by heating engineers, has been taken into account?
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…. as well as the energy used and CO2 produced in boiling kettles full of water on a regular basis to defrost the system as well as when reverting to more conventional heating methods (electric fan heaters, gas flame fires, paraffin heaters, etc.) to try and keep warm.
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It is so very irritating…….I have to defrost the condensing pipe twice a day when its really cold – my parents don’t have this problem, but then they don’t have a ‘wonderfully efficient’ combi boiler!!!!!
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Heard this problem so many times. I wouldn’t say bad installation just that the installer never envisaged the low temperatures we are experiencing at the moment. The best solution is to route the pipe to an internal waste pipe such as the washing machine waste. Mine is like this and never had a problem. Alternatively the scandinavians have a solution in the form of a wire element inserted into the pipe that heats up in extremely low temperatures to melt any condense that has frozen.
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Just (in the last three weeks) had a new condenser boiler fitted; and the condensing pipe routed the same way as you describe yours has been. No problems experienced – so far. That said the procedure, for setting the timer controls for the central heating and hot water, is unnecessarily complex.
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my new combi boiler was installed in the toilet room , the out let from the condenser was plumbed into the toilet cistern , all very efficient , no chance of freezing , apart from the fact the boiler was never turned , only down .
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Last night my husband and I were defrosting the condensing pipe with a hair drier and hot air gun….we only had the blooming thing fitted in June…we have to leave a fan heater on in the utility room, our electricity bill will be HUGE!
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Insulate the pipe.
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we have still freezes four times this month….just have to pour boiling water on
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Mine fitted mid september this year. Not initially insulated, then insulated, now with cut-off pipe and bucket for condensate. At least makes it possible – so far – to get the thing operating. (My more detailed letter evidently not accepted by the Blog).
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A fan on in the utility room? why is that? save electricity and energy and just dunna bother with heating it, not , like its a living or sleeping space.
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“A fan on in the utility room? why is that? save electricity and energy and just dunna bother with heating it, not , like its a living or sleeping space.”
TC, if you read the post, Kitty is saying that she too had to defrost the condensate pipe to get the boiler to work – the fan heater in the utility room would be to prevent it from freezing up again – not just to heat an unoccupied room….doh…!
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A good plumber worth their salt would either discharge the pipe internally or insulate the pipe externally.
Yes, I admit, mine too went – however until I get it properly insulated I’ve got an old towel wrapped around with cling film and bin bags water proofing it. Aestheically its not ideal, but it’s certainly caused no further problems.
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The engineer who put our combi in, discharged the overflow internally it runs behind the bath panel to the waste pipe for the sink and bath. From what he said this is what should be dome wherever possible to prevent freezing in extreme temperatures.
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When I called out a utility supplier repair service, I was told by the visiting engineer that the freezing condensate waste pipe problem was an issue during last year cold spell too.
Even with ~20mm thick Polyethylene foam lagging ours has frozen solid due to poor routing path to the drain.
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I could not agree more!! I have used various types of boilers in a number of properties as a property manager and never had a problem working out their different settings or explaing it to tenants, but this is something else.
I had my own new condensing boiler fitted this summer and was shocked to discover that they had fitted an ugly white, plastic pipe, approx. 3m long attached to the outside of the house to reach a drain, which of course, froze solid whilst we were away for a few days over Christmas. Position of boiler may make joing pipe with other waste difficult but not impossible, however it was never discussed as an option at the time of fitting.
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Complicated setting instructions, I could not agree more! I have used various types of boilers in a number of properties as a rental agent and never had a problem working out their different settings or explaing it to tenants, but this is something else.
I had my own new condensing boiler fitted this summer and was shocked to discover that they had fitted an ugly white, plastic pipe, approx. 3m long attached along the house and round the corner to reach a drain, which of course, froze solid whilst we were away for a few days over Christmas. Position of boiler may make joing pipe with other waste difficult but not impossible, however it was never discussed as an option at the time of fitting.
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I have been thinking about this problem and although this may be beyond the technical capabilities of most folk. So maybe a plumber or technically capable persons could follow up on this.
There are small comercial electriacal heaters that are set to come on when temperatures reach freezing point. This could be fitted in or close to the water trap. They would be easy and cheap to fit, also virtually maintenance free. I’m pretty certain they would cure the problem.
RS components could be a good source for these heaters.
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Our central heating and hot water systems stopped work on Monday afternoon. I did not find out about it until I came home to a cold house after work. My father is good at sorting problems and when he found out what to do, he fixed the problem by unfreezing the condensing pipe. He went over to see our elderly neighbours and checked there boiler. The pipe was partially frozen and cleared the pipe before it completely froze. We will be checking it regularly over the rest of the cold period.
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The condensation tube is too narrow and the condensation freezes and blocks the tube BUT it is the correct diameter as specified by British Standards . For this reason the manufacturers cannot be sued for faulty design.
The only remedy is to pay British Gas £180 or so to fit their “hot wire” modification to the condensation tube.
Possibly ,as a temporary alternative, you could box the tube in and insulate it well.
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Boiler is in the loft and I have an extensive pipe outside to garage gutter. The pipe kept freezing and stopping system. I have solved it during cold weather by disconnecting the pipe from the boiler outlet pipe and putting a bucket underneath – other than emptying bucket every 1 to 2 days the heating works perfectly. I have looked at a “trace heat” wire but not sure if it worth the expense as I have a very cheap solution.
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As explained earlier the best way to stop these ill-thought-out condense pipe freezing up is to ensure it exhausts in a waste pope indoors. In my case the loo is too inconveniently (?) placed and to use the kitchen sink waste pipe would mean messing up a fitted kitchen and losing valuable cupboard space. In a ‘new-build’ the condense pipe could be considered at the design stage, in a ‘retro-fit’it has to go wherever it can and that can in many cases mean outdoors. Just another example of one of bureaucracy’s half-baked knee-jerk directives. Thank you EU.
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Mid Sept this year, had new Bosch condensing combi boiler fitted by British Gas. Salesman detailed condensate pipe to be internal, but when engineer fitted the salesman’s detail was for technical reasons illegal, so outside condensate drainpipe.
Mon 29 Nov.No heating nor hot water. Engineer visited and sawed through pipe outside to release water, and bucked under saw-off. (Needs time to phone for service)
Daily then had relative to unfreeze cut-off but it did work.
Mon 6th Dec. Engineer came & insulsted.
Several times then relative had to unfreeze through insulation.
Mon 20 Dec. relative unable to unfreeze and had to go back to taped saw-off and bucket.
WHY HAVE CONDENSING BOILERS BEEN MADE COMPULSORY WHEN THEY OR SEEMINGLY MANY OF THEM,DO NOT WORK IN THE COLD?
British Gas have yet to be contacted re this latest fiasco, but until spring wish to pipe (Insulated)ending about 20″ about ground and draining into buckeT. Also whoever is Science Minister now to see what idiot passed this compulsory condensing boiler law?
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Same old, same old. We too have had the same problem with our boiler fitted in June. If so many of us are experiencing this, can we not ALL write in the strongest possible terms to the manufacturers to complain about this system which is so clearly not fit for purpose? I certainly intend to do so in the New Year as soon as the postal service is back to normal – if enough people complain maybe they will be forced to compensate us for the expense we will have of a)boiling kettles, b)re-routing pipes, c)dealing with the inevitable bursts which will ensue from freezing houses when we go away.
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my mom had a new comby boiler (modern boiler) fitted in about three weeks ago. When they were fiting it in the council men drilled through the ceiling and when i told him he said it wasnt him (well it was no one else). So now we’ere left with a hole in the living room. but not only that the day after we had the new boiler fitted me and my woke up and all we could hear was drip drip drip – the comby boiler had burst. We went into the airing cupboard and it was completely full of water and there was a hole which i could see straight though in to the living room so i went into the living room to find that all my carpet was worrying along with the wallpaper. I called my mom down and she just went into shock. Our christmas had been ruined. My mom had tried so hard to get the house nice and lovely and then just as everything was done and it all looked perfect then BANG. We have the new boiler fitted and it has to ruin everything. We waited ages for them to come out to fit it, but that wasnt just it two weeks ago my mom noticed that the radiator in the hallway was leaking realy bad with like yellow/brown coloured water. We rang them and said that we had had another leak we had to wait 7 hours before they came out and when they did they said we would have to wait till the new year to have a new rediator fitted, so we have got no heating in the hallway, but the same happenede 2 days later, this time in the bathroom, so we did the same thing rang and waited and the same thing happened. We are now left with no heating in the bathroom but to top it off i woke up today and my mom shouted me saying that the white pipe in the airing cupboard next to the boiler so we went to the council office and rang at 9.30aam it is now 7.30 at night and they still aint been out so we have got no heating in the hallway and bathroom and we cant even go and sit in the living room and celebrate christmas because its a health and safety issue and smells of damp. its horrible im asmatic too and ive been really ill with it why did they have to fit it in if they new we would need the new radiators to go with the new boiler so if i was you i wouldnt have the new boiler fitted in because it is nothing but hassle it has ruined are house and we cant celbrate christmas. its horrible!!!!.
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the carpet and wallpapper was ruined*
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I have written to British Gas who installed my Worcester Greenstar Ri condensing boiler and said “As far as I am concerned, a system that is prone to failure due to cold weather is not fit for purpose.
I have been informed by your staff that I can have a heating coil fitted to the condensate pipe at a cost of £200.
As no mention was made of the freezing condensate pipe when your Installation Technical Surveyor provided the quotation for the replacement boiler, I consider that a heating coil should now be installed at your cost.”
I await a reply.
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I quite agree. Lost count of the number of times we’ve had to defrost our condensate pipe which runs from the garage to an outside drain. We were advised to put a heater on to warm the pipe an hour before the heating is due to come on in the morning. Oh, that’s ok then, just get up at 6.30 every morning and don’t go away when it’s cold!!!!
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This latest fiasco beggars belief,condensing boilers are supposed to be much cheaper to run and under a EU directive it is now compulsory for almost all new domestic boilers to be of the condensing type but much of the promised saving of gas seems to come from the times the boilers breaksdown.”A central heating boiler that only works in warm weather” you couldn’t make it up. No doubt the manufacturers will blame the installers,the installers will blame the manufacturers and Joe Mug customers will foot the bill.
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Well thanks to this article I knew full well what was wrong when my heating stopped working last night and how to fix it, cheers.
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Well, there is a solution to all this (for new builds and some houses in close proximity) have a decentralised heating system. Rather than every new build/house having a boiler, you have a boiler and a sustainable energy system like a heat pump or a combined heat and power system in one central room. This one room will then supply reliable heat and electricity in all seasons to all households which are connected to it.
However, most of the British are so backwards and unmoveable in there ethos of ‘every house should have a boiler’ that they don’t look at long-term gains, just the short-term costs.
The whole country needs to re-educate itself in how it supplies itself with energy – we are decades behind our European/Scandinavian neighbours who have reliable energy in far worse weather.
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We sell a cheap kit that stops the pipework freezing in the first place, just needs plugged into a socket and away you go.
http://www.hds-ltd.co.uk
kit comes complete with trace heating cable and some insulation to attach to pipe, much cheaper than British Gas or Worcester.
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our condensing boiler frozzen pipe out side. but the pipe is right up in the apex of the house so no boiling kettle quik fix for us had to wait 2 days for plummer we had to send children to nans .just happend to be the coldest 2 days weve had ..be prepared for global warming JUST WEAR A EXTRA PAIR
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