Letter: Forty years of EU bliss
No political expertise is required to conclude that Britain has been taken to the cleaners by European Union members Germany and France from the day we joined – almost 40 years ago.
We have paid in billions of pounds in inflated membership fees and are the second highest paying member country, yet we have absolutely no say in where a penny (or a euro) of those billions is spent – because we chose not to join the euro. In a union of, they tell us, 27 member countries enjoying equal rights and privileges, Britain’s political, economic and fiscal experience and influence is zero, zilch, non-existent; we are listened to politely and then ignored.
The euro we chose not to join is on its knees and has been for four years. The leaders of the European Union, France and Germany do not have a clue but when they are forced into action of some kind you may be sure that it will favour the 17 Eurozone countries to the clear and obvious detriment of the 10 non-euro members.
None of the hundreds of thousands of gormless, red-tape inducing, business wrecking, and protectionist edicts issued by Brussels since 1973 have helped this country or its economy.
Did you know that we sent a blind man to sign the European Arrest Warrant treaty. The first step to Britain giving up trial by jury and ‘innocent until proven guilty’ How smart was that?
January will be our 40th anniversary in the European Union – can you find a benefit to celebrate that fact?
Bob Wydell
Oswestry
Comments for: "Letter: Forty years of EU bliss"
R Suppards
Hear hear! I too can't find a single reason to celebrate, except by voting UKIP at all forthcoming elections.
Nick, Telford
This topic was aired in considerable detail last month, with the general consensus being the time had come for GB to tell the EU to shove off. However, Cameron is reported today as "wanting to re-shape our relationship with Brussels and to claw back powers from the EU." Am I the only one who thinks he has signed up to the "I believe in fairies" club? He'll be laughed at all the way from Brussels Grand Place to the airport and given an aisle seat on the cheapest Ryanair flight home.
The only way to negotiate with EU plutocrats these days is to quit the club and re-apply for "country membership". They'll be delighted to approve the application, especially when it's pointed out that a huge part of THEIR export market could be at risk. But then again Cameron is probably playing cat-and-mouse with the right wing of his own party by lulling them and also the electorate into thinking he can achieve reform without the referendum he promised two years ago and without the need to quit the club.
I am convinced he DOES believe in fairies!
Roger
I hope there are fairies, in this case, but I don't think David Cameron is amongst the good ones.
As in the previous debate I do believe in the common market we joined but not the Federated Europe the EU is heading for. I do believe that a middle way needs to be found for us and any other country that thinks in the same way.
It is all about trade and standards and co-operation. GB is not big enough to stand alone in the new world, its domestic market is too small and it's financial and military clout too weak. We can only operate in the world and be competitive domestically if we are part of international organisations. As it is the "means of production" and "Utilities" are dominated by foreign ownership which are taking away our independence and making us reliant on other counties.
Have we got it right now, probably not, Is the Federal EU the way forward, probably not. The debate is what is to be our future and that is a national debate.
Cameron is working behind the scenes secretly to design his vision of the future with the EU and I do not trust him to that. I want an open debate on what the people want. Then we can talk to the EU. I don't want a three question choice of in, out of David’s way.
We have a lot to lose, a lot to gain or a slow sinking decline. The world financial crisis has exposed the cracks in our economy, that of all EU members and the operation of the collective EU. We need to stabilise and rebuild, I think it would be a good idea to have a plan before we start building.
Grey
So workers rights and environmental protection laws are of no benefit to any British people whatsoever? The EU certainly has faults but to say we have gained nothing demonstrates a certain amount of either bias or ignorance.
ANDREW FINCH
I think the UK was rather capable of implementing modern day workers rites and and environmental protection laws without the need for help from our EU associates, which is what the EU are, it is very questionable if we could call them our "EU friends" and even more questionable if they have the UK citizen at heart or even take any notice of us when making new rules etc .
Have we gained from the EU yes a little but nothing we would not have gained as we modernized ourselves over the last forty years.
Roger
We may be capable of making the laws but would we? Given that this government is reducing workers rights by reform of the Tribunal system. Charging for justice in the situation where someone has lost their income and can't pay for justice. Proposing a system were there can be no fault unfair dismissal by negotiation of dismissal payments. Reducing Health and Safety Inspections in the very companies who are the most likely to breach regulations.
This government is undermining workers rights to give us a competative advantage. That might work in the world market but not in the Common Market. The idea in the Common Market is to level the playing field improving the Health and Welfare of the population. Import tariffs can then be applied across the whole market. In Brazil Cameron was offering the UK as a gateway to Europe with reduced operating cost to the main stream countries of Europe.
Out of the market the EU could well impose tariffs to relevel the playing field and the sacrifice will be for nothing. We can't compete with emerging economies on the basis of sweat shops they will always win. We need to compete on quality and inovation across the common market and the world. Reduced dependance on finacial sector and a shift the industrial sector is essential if we ever need to rebalance the economy and for that we need a bigger domestic market ie Europe.
Ken Adams
You cannot negotiate a change in the basic rules of the EU which change the direction of the inbuilt end point for all member states. The only way to achieve a different settlement for the UK would be to leave, the new settlement would be achieved during the leaving negotiations. Anything less and we would still be anchored into the system designed to create The United States of Europe.
Peter
Another ridiculous xenophobic anti-European sulk from Bob Wydell.
Setting aside the blindingly obvious fact that 50% or more of our trade would be instantly in jeopardy were we to leave the EU (we can't go back to trading just with the Commonwealth I'm afraid Bob - they've made other arrangements, and the empire is gone!), the idiotic suggestion that we have no political power or influence left (tell that to the hundreds of thousands the Tories are putting out of work), or the laughable idea that we're about to abandon trial by jury, I really think that anyone considering voting for UKIP really needs to look at the true nature of that one-issue party and its fellow travellers such as the so-called Freedom Association, or the so-called Taxpayers' Alliance.
All like to masquerade as 'grass roots' parties or pressure groups, but in reality all were founded by wealthy right-wing conservatives, and act in the interest not of ordinary people but of big business.
Isn't it odd that the Freedom Association talks a lot about individual freedom, but was in favour of apartheid in South Africa, and is vehemently against like-minded individuals standing up for workplace rights as part of a trade union?
Isn't it odd that the Taxpayers' Alliance bang on about cutting public services, but never, ever mention the huge tax breaks given to the wealthy? Surely if they were a grass roots group they'd have an interest in that, wouldn't they?
And isn't it odd that the anti EU UKIP lot would have us roll back sensible legislation that protects workers? Do you really want to see an end to the minimum wage Bob? Do you really want to see working people being bullied into working excessive hours - often without extra pay? Do you really wat us to head towards a sweatshop hire and fire at will economy? Who would benefit from that? Surely only the most wealthy!
Thimk very carefully befre you have your next whinge Bob - unless you're careful you might not like the economic consequences very much!
Ken Adams
Setting aside the blindingly obvious fact that we are in trade deficit with the EU they sell more to us than we to them, so no French cheese, no German Cars, no Spanish wine etc.
Setting aside the blindingly obvious fact that the EU is not a trading block never intended to be a trading block but a United States of Europe.