Teen beauty spot drinkers are ramblers, not rebels
- Dave Burrows
Letter: Call Alex Salmond’s bluff over Scottish independence referendum
Monday 16th January 2012, 8:08AM GMT.
David Cameron has a golden opportunity, I trust he seizes it with both hands, even if it leads to his departure from English politics in view of his Scottish connections.
Call Salmond’s bluff. Give all over 18 born in England a referendum to decide whether the Scots remain within the UK.
If they vote for independence, immediately cancel our financial aid to an ungrateful populace dissatisfied with their lot since time immemorial.
Rather than build a railway line so those in Shropshire reach London 10 minutes earlier, build a wall along the border and man every crossing point with tolls. Set a £100 fee per day per person but offer free departure.
Levy the same tax on any Scot seeking entry by other means, all income from these sources to be used to encourage those who wish to return to their motherland to do so free of charge within ten years.
Ban all Scots from holding positions of authority in English public life when their contracts expire, they have had disproportionate influence for too long, as proved by the previous administration.
This is the time to rid ourselves of a financial albatross. They show little allegiance to the United Kingdom, have had too great a say in English politics and law, and this is the ideal moment to rid ourselves of their influence in all things.
J Mayne
Bridgnorth
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I agree, the sooner we break up the union, the sooner England has a chance of winning Eurovision.
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The influence of the Scots and Welsh on the British government is always denied, those calling for Scottish independence want to portray poor old Scotland suffering under the English. A bit hard to swallow when a short time ago most of the cabinet were Scottish, The Prime Minister was Scottish and the Lord Chief Justice was Scottish! Gordon Brown was also a signatory to the Scottish Claim of Rights.
Of course it goes without saying in a United Kingdom there should be no concern about any person from any part of the union holding power in the government.
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Cameron sounds a suspiciously Scottish name too. It’s a stitch-up, I tells ye.
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The point I was making was not racially based but that those who want Scottish independence do not want to admit the influence MPs elected to Scottish constituencies have on the British government. Their line is that Scotland is ruled by the English when often it is the reverse, I also said that in a United Kingdom there is no problem with that, but would add as long as it is not always the case.
We have a situation at present where often the Scottish and Welsh MPs vote on legalisation that only apply to England.
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Yes, the West Lothian question. Personally, I find it the most compelling argument for the setting up of a specifically English assembly, and putting the ‘Devo Max’ option in the Scottish referendum question. That would also
be the way to force fiscal responsibility on the Scots, or be their chance to show they can be fiscally responsible if you prefer.
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Aye true.
But is a PM with Scottish roots the man the English want fighting the case for continuation of the Union ?
Some would say his approach so far has been somewhat divisive maybe. Perhaps, his veto in Europe led the way for Salmond to go it alone now rather than later. Perhaps his party’s aggressive tactics are signs of cognitive dissonance. Perhaps he sees a Conservative 1000 year power spree with the Scottish votes quarantined (not that anything lasts forever).
Hence my ‘It’s a stitch up’ remark.
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Sorry I misinterpreted your original comment, I don’t think the so called veto has anything to do with the Scotland question Salmond is the leader of a party with the stated intention of independence. As far as Cameron is concerned I don’t think he had a plan for government in any case he just wanted power for its own sake, he will make Eusceptic noises when it suits him but wont do anything to address the situation.
Of course if we are to remain in the EU then it matters little what happens in our local governments or how the Union is divided because the power to govern will not in in this country anyway.
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You may think the EU veto and the Scots going alone are unconnected, but the soothsayer in me says not…..
(If the Shropshire Star doesn’t object to self linking (Under Comment 5));
http://www.shropshirestar.com/news/2011/12/09/shropshire-tory-mps-back-david-cameron-on-eurozone-treaty-vote/
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Sorry your suggestion has no legs you are attributing much more significance to Cameron’s actions in the EU (I wont call it a veto because it was not) than can be possible.
Scottish independence is a very long standing goal the SNP manifesto for the 2007 Scottish Parliament election pledged to hold an independence referendum by 2010 but did not win enough seats to force the issue. In 2011 when the party won an overall majority Alex Salmond stated his desire to hold a referendum in 2014 or 2015.
You are attempting to blame the call for a referendum now on something which happened only a couple of weeks ago when history shows it has nothing to do with it.
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Nope.
I’m not suggesting it wasn’t already an SNP goal….but I am suggesting that it is possible to attribute the timing of the announcement;
as per 09:24 18/1)’Salmond to go it alone now rather than later’.
Either that, or I got lucky back in Mid-December.
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Whilst I think some of J Mayne’s comments are a tad extreme I do support the the central point he is making. For too long England has had to put up with whining, ungrateful Scots. The Union was formed in 1707 because Scotland was bankrupt and needed the Bank of England to bail it out – money that has never been repaid. When indepence come (and let it be soon) I trust the settlement will ensure that England receives adequate compensation for the centuries it has financially supported the Scots and that they accept their share of the UK’s national debt. A debt recently increase by the actions of Scottish banks.
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“National Debt”
Its all in the name, JimB.
Scotland owns roughly 10% of the national debt now, why would that change under independence.
Bank of “England” is also around 10% owned by Scotland.
Bank of Scotland is the trading name of an international bank.
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And Royal Bank of Scotland therefore belongs to the Queen.
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Far from being anything like the Scott’s Porage Oats man – Many scots lead a very unhealthy lifestyle. Probably the worst in Europe.
But who shoulders much of the burden of health care for this nation with a penchant for deep-fried mars bars? …. The poor, hard pressed English taxpayer.
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Of course the Scottish tax payer (NI contributor) does not shoulder any burden of the NHS, that is solely paid for by the philanthropic English.
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(NI contributor)
i.e. National Insurance contributor.
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This issue will no doubt run and run until the referendum actually takes place. If there is to be a ‘divorce’ after more than 300 years of ‘marriage’ then we should expect significant fallout.
The quarrelsome and narrow-minded SNP politicians – and those who voted them into office, have probably not thought through the economic and political consequences of full independence as opposed to the current ‘halfway house’ of devolved government.
I believe that all the British people will lose should there be any partial break up of the union, but the biggest losers of all will be the Scots themselves. Rather than remain part of one of a country with one of the bigest economies in the world with all the political clout which that entails, they will be consigned to the margins, an independent Scotland will bwecome a small European country with as much significance as Latvia or Slovenia. The Scots should think about this very carefully before casting their vote.
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To use the analogy of a marriage (as many do),if Scotland wishes to have a divorce then it is their right to have one and they should not need to have the blessing of the English, Welsh or NI population.
However if divorce is what they vote for then the terms of the split DO become a matter for every other citizen and thats when the negotiations should take place. The populance should be given all of the facts about the cost/benifit of any divorce so they can make an informed decision.
It is here that I think Alex Salmond is making a mistake by raising the subject of a Devo-max option forming part of the referendum. The devolving of any power from one party/country/region to another should be an issue for all affected people, not in the hands of one group.
It may be simplistic but the Scots vote on independance, if a Yes vote is achieved then a UK wide discussion/referendum on the terms of the split, if they vote no then we can ALL discuss the issue of further powers being passed to Hollyrood or not (or indeed whether the rest of the UK splits from Scotland)
Anything else just smacks of having their cake and eating it, and this is what is going to cause massive friction over the coming months/years….and that is what worries me given some of the quotes from the original correspondant.
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Are you therefore saying there should have been a Union wide referendum on devolving power to Scotland in the first place, I would agree with that.
It was a Scottish and Welsh dominated British Government who denied the English a voice in the referendums which set up the governments in Wales and Scotland.
All England is offered is the choice of being broken up into regions or having the Scots and Welsh MP vote on matters that only apply to England in the British parliament.
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Its very simple (assuming we want to be fair to everyone…which is a big assumption of course).
Scots to make a decision about in or out of the union. If they decide to leave then we all decide on the terms.If they decide to stay in then a seperate, UK wide, referendum on Devo-max option (with options for increased power to Hollyrood, no change in the power split or, and here is the rub, a removal of power from Hollyrood back to Westminster)
One thing that could be an unintended consequence of the SNP push for independence is that there is likely to be a push for an English referendum on whether England should move away from the union. To use the marriage analogy once more, if you find out that your partner is making very public noises about possibly leaving you, you are likely to start re-evaluating the whole relationship irrespective of whether your partner ultimately decides to stay.
Interesting times ahead, the major concern is that there seems to be no one reliable source to give an understanding of what legal conditions exist for the division of oil revenues, public services provision, national debt, armed forces, foriegn embassies and the currency that an independent Scotland would use (and their position is confused to say the least). In the absence of fair and balanced facts the decision is likely to be made emotionally and that will lead to a bitter, misleading campaign that will focus on personality and stereotype and that is not likely to lead to a decision that is best for all parties.
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I have no problem with accepting Scottish Independence, together with whatever currency and lifestyle changes they choose to put into effect afterwards.
Beforehand, however, they can pay up their share of the UK National Debt. Afterwards, they receive not a penny from English national coffers.
Once they are a sovereign state of their own, they will have to fund the Scottish Army, the Scottish Air Force, the Scottish Navy plus pay for all those free university courses (do they get free prescriptions too? I can’t remember).
Can Scotland afford to be legally and financially independent, especially once the oil and gas have all gone? But if they want to have a go, that’s fine with me. Ian Smith, remember, did it for Rhodesia (look what a b.awful mess they are in now).
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