Letter: Contempt for cardboard recycling petition
Tuesday 20th December 2011, 7:57AM GMT.
I’d like to place on record my thanks to the 19 LibDem and Labour councillors who voted in support of my e-petition which asked Shropshire Council to work harder and faster to reinstate kerbside collections of cardboard.
I’d also like to thank the many people who signed the petition and who are continuing to sign it as it remains open until January 31.
When presenting the petition, I found it interesting to witness a complete absence of independent thought on the part of the Conservative members, and worse, to hear their groans when the opposition members wanted to debate the issue.
Other than at election time, a petition is the most tangible form of expression on behalf of the electorate.
It was batted away with contempt, and with no clear explanation of why Shropshire appears to be unable to do what most or maybe even all other local authorities appear to be doing.
Patrick Cosgrove
Bucknell
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Patrick don’t give up, we are all behind you on this one. Next step should be a protest. We need to show them we will not be ignored on this subject.
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Protesting will achieve nothing.The only way to change decisions made by a council is to vote out the councillors responsible at the first available opportunity. T&W council collects my cardboard if it is placed into the bag specifically supplied for the purpose. Ditto glass. Ditto paper. Ditto plastics. The cost of the service is met by T&W council tax payers {of which I am one of many).
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When will you little people understand; You don’t matter.
You think you have democracy because you can vote someone off X-Factor don’t you ? Well, the real world isn’t like that.
Petitions ? e-Petitions ? Are you trying to make me laugh ? Million people crowded into London to stop the war in Iraq – did it make any difference ? Of course not. Now, you expect a petition with a few thousand signatures is going to suddenly change things ? Only one thing matters don’t you know; Money.
Now, if you could raise a few tens of thousands and put them in a sealed plain brown envelope and hand it over *with* your petition, well, lets say, now we’re talking.
/Throws black cape over shoulder. Strides off, swiftly disappearing into fog. Cold laughter audible long after footsteps fade….Muhahaha.
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Sorry to hear about the ruling Tory councillors showing their usual disgust at anybody who doesn’t agree with them.
They need to remember they work for us and should listen to us, not treat us with contempt.
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Burn it
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The petition or the cardboard?
Or even a better idea make the effort to go to the recycling centre and recycle the stuff.
It’s pretty obvious they’re not going to back down over the collection of cardboard.
Yes.it’s bad they can’t distinguish between recycling and collection.However this is no excuse for not making the effort to recycle.
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Well done, Patrick, on not backing down, on reminding people that your petition is still open ( http://petitions.shropshire.gov.uk/consult.ti/system/viewPetition?petitionid=3850&showall=Y
) , and for demanding clear, convincing answers to some pretty straightforward questions:
Like you, I don’t think that the 1385 people who have so far signed this petition have had a satisfactory answer from Conservative councillors as to why we have lost our service.
Keith Barrow blamed the council’s decision on ‘European legislation’ ( http://www.shropshirestar.com/news/2011/12/15/return-of-shropshire-cardboard-collection-ruled-out/ ).
This is untrue.
In fact it is the Association for Organic Recycling (AfOR) that have tightened up their composting regulations.
Councillor Owen said ‘although the council would have liked to carry on with the service, national guidelines on standards of garden compost waste meant it could not.’
Could Councillor Owen (or any Conservative blogger) please, then, explain how Staffordshire Moorlands District Council, who have also had to adjust their service to meet AfOR guidelines, ARE carrying on with their cardboard collection service?
http://www.recycleforstaffordshire.org/all-change-for-cardboard-collection-in-staffordshire-moorlands/
NB Staffordshire Moorlands Council is now RECYCLING their cardboard.
If they can do it, why can’t Shropshire?
Well done, Patrick. Keep up the good work!
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You are still pushing the Staffs Moorlands thing I see Huw so you obviously really don’t get it.
Staffs Moorlands are able to carry on with their cardboard collection because the residents are already in possession of a suitable container, in the form of a bin in which they can put the cardboard. The big clue is that residents already have this bin so it is straightforward to swap as the collection system for that bin is already in place. This is not the case in Shropshire where a suitable container to add cardboard to is not already in the possession of residents with the associated, existing collection system to back that up. This is because recycling is currently collected in separate boxes using a different collection system and vehicles to Staffs.
How long do you think it would take to source and issue the bins to everyone? Days, weeks, months? Any idea? What exactly do you think residents should put in this bin? Just cardboard or glass, cans etc? After you decide this what sort of vehicles would you use to to collect whatever you decide should go in these bins and how many would you need or could you modify the existing ones? How would you organise the staff and how many would you need? Would you change existing collection rounds and if so how? After whatever you wish to collect is collected what would you do with it and where would it go? How would you make sure you got value for money for the taxpayers of Shropshire?
How would you communicate the changes made to collections to residents effectively so that they understand what you want them to do and when? What would you do when residents get your new system wrong and how would you deal with this problem-remembering that every journey has a cost and that Shropshire is a large and very rural county in places? How much would all this cost and if the cost was more than the current system how would you pay for it in the current climate of public service cuts?
Just a few thoughts, I am sure there is much more to consider for those that actually have to organise these things.
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Oh,Freddo,just get on with the job you are being paid to do. If you can’t do it just resign and get someone who can do it to sort it out, it’s not rocket science but no doubt you are being paid earth shattering amounts to do it.
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Wrong on all counts roadrunner, just prepared to do plenty of research and ask questions of and listen to the people who know about this rather than spout mindless drivel which sadly, seems to be the best you can manage.
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Hi Freddo.
I agree that there is a lot to consider for those who have to organise these things.
But when those that have to organise these things have an interest in not organising these things to the satisfaction of the public (Veolia, unlike Shropshire people, don’t want to recycle cardboard; Veolia want to burn cardboard in their incinerator which they want taxpayers to fund through a PFI scheme) then it is up to local politicians that serve us to demand a better service from our waste contractor.
This is all the more important when other authorities continue to collect cardboard at the kerbside to the satisfaction of the public.
Nearly 1,400 have now signed this petition and are continuing to do so. Would you just ignore this democratic challenge if the number of signatures reaches 2,000, Freddo?
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The difference between you and me, Freddo, is that I have run a succesful business for about thirty years and don’t find sourcing materials and organising basic jobs to be daunting. Maybe if you listened to people with business experience and not ill informed amatuers, you would realise how simple it really is to pick up a bit of cardboard once a fortnight…really, you people amaze me!
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regardless of the container freddo they could have continued it, in telford they use a bag and they have identical trucks
some others a box others a bin it doesnt really matter so long as they pick it up
THERE IS NO EXCUSE FOR FAILURE
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I cannot answer your detailed logistical questions, Freddo, because I don’t have access to the same data about truck types and rotas that you have.
However, if other authorities like Staffordshire Moorlands Council can move, without interruption, from a system similar to our old one to a cardboard recycling system, then surely we can do that here in Shropshire, too. Why can we in Shropshire not do what other councils can?
No need for a new bin (which, I agree, would be expensive). We could put our cardboard in (cheap) PLASTIC BAGS like in Telford.
It’s not as though the new guidelines were issued at the last minute. Surely we could have prepared for a seamless transition to cardboard recycling without interruption and inconvenience for the public.
On the subject of cost-cutting and the best value for money in the current climate of austerity, I think Shrewsbury taxpayers would prefer a relatively cheap expanded recycling service, guided by zero-waste aspirations, to the vast expense of a PFI-funded incinerator, which would completely undermine efforts to recycle and saddle us all with yet more debt.
And I think council taxpayers would prefer to see each truck journey doing something useful. Picking up green waste when there is so little green waste and refusing to pick up cardboard, when there is so much cardboard is not the best use of scarce resources, is it?
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I do love it when the likes of Freddo, can only come up with pathetic insults, instead of workable solutions to anyone who questions their ability do do such a simple task. It really is a hard life when you go to work and have to find solutions to simple problems isn’t it?
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Sheer class, you couldn#t make it up, unemployment’s up,the Euro’s on its last legs,thousands of British troops facing danger on a daily basis and what has Mr Cosgrove got to moan about? What to do with his cardboard that the council once collected in one bin and now collect it in one of a different colour.
Wish he hadn’t mentioned it, I’ll now being lying awake all night worrying, glad he isn’t my councillor with such perception on what is and isn’t important to debate in the chamber, which if he has forgotten is paid for by you and me.
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If unemployment is your principal worry, ‘Worried’, then you might be interested to know that expanding recycling in Shrewsbury (ie recycling the cardboard) would create more jobs locally than Veolia’s favoured option of incinerating it.
(Just Google the Friends of the Earth report called ‘More jobs, less waste’ (September 2010) for the employment implications of moving towards a zero-waste system.
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Yippee , thanks Huw, that’s the 2m+ unemployed sorted we’ll just put everything in cardboard from now on and they can collect, sort it and send it back to be refilled, how are FOTE going to sort the issues with the euro and the armed forces, or will that be gently placed in the papier-mâché made recepticle marked ‘très difficile’?
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This report is a desk study which is based on incomplete data and is not definitive (this is what the report says about itself). It does not mention Shropshire or the West Midlands so it is not clear to me how recycling more in Shrewsbury would create more jobs locally. I suppose that gives the incinerator an advantage then.
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Have to agree, this comment is a breath of fresh air. Most of these grouchers commenting here should get a life or at least get a sense of proportion in their lives.
If the card problem is so important to u what are U doing about it or are u just moaning because that’s what u do best. With such strong feelings perhaps we shall see a rush of potential councillors at the next council elections to fight these important issues.
I doubt it though because u know u would have to deal with people like yourselves – experts on what everyone else should be doing.
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Hi, Anna.
You asked me what I will be doing about it.
I will be supporting Cardboard Christmas on 7th January.
This group of volunteers will be collecting people’s cardboard from 9am to 2pm at the Red Barn, Longden Road, United Reform Church, Abbey Foregate and Riverside Elim Church in Harlescott.
They will have trucks lined up ready to take the cardboard off to be recycled and any money they make will go to the Severn Hospice and Hope House.
Do you not think this sort of job should be done efficiently by the council or by volunteers?
Cardboard Christmas think the council should be doing it, like in other authorities.
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recycling creates 10 x more jobs than disposal
so huw has a good point about unemployment
its not fun work, but its work, sorting stuff by hand to create valuable products from rubbish, the alchemy of the 21st century really, muck to brass and lots of young men kept busy too
i agree recycling and the green industrial economy should be at the heart of the governments growth plan
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Keep up the good work, and the pressure. Lobby the MP, even if he is a Conservative, he should listen. Keep on at Veolia who should be coming up with solutions as they have the contract for recycling. There are plenty of people who didn’t sign the petition who support this and it shouldn’t be left as it is.
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Shropshire Council don’t seem to have a good record at listening to people. Take petitions to save day care centres, fights to stop unlawful residential care top-up fees, giving themselves i-pads and staying at luxury seaside hotels and you have a council based in ivory tower luxury with the rest of us in the castle grounds shouting our heads off. When will they listen to us?
Vote them out next time and make sure they don’t get away with it.
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why did they start the petiion thing on their website in the first place if they are only going to ignore people. they are just like the government, not giving us a referedum on the EU when people demand it, the only thing to do is vote them out to make a point
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Isnt Localism Official Government Policy?
So the people (who pay their wages) dont count any more!
I say we need a lib-lab-green-indy pact in shropshire with joint candidates standing against the tories in every seat but particularly against those involved in the waste decision like keith barrow and mike owen
Hound them out!
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contempt is the right choice of words allright, that is what conservative councillors think of the people who pay their wages
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……..and the other party members don’t? I haven’t seen or heard from our local councillor since the last election, that is except from the odd picture in the local press of them attending a bun-fight.
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its a disgace that every other council in the uk can collect cardboard but shropshire cant
some collect it for composting with garden waste others collect it for recycling either on its own or mixed with paper or with all recycling mixed together
so they have a number of options open to them (including composting it still if they wanted) but they are too stubborn to admit their mistake and change their stance
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they still havent explained why they cant compost cardboard because of PAS100 which is a quality standard applied to shop bought bags of compost from the garden centre, this does not apply to farmers who spread waste on land they do not need to have perfect quality because its not being sold to the public and no one is handling it so the whole PAS100 thing is a red herring
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they only put the petition on the website as a pr thing i bet they didnt actually expect anyone to use it! lol
victim of their own stupid system
shropshire council = pr disaster
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I wonder how long it will take them to realize that the waste bin collection has increased and the “green” bin collection has decreased!
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Put your cardboard in with your can collection or put your cans with your landfill,,,hit them where it hurts…in their pockets.
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Don’t you mean it’ll hit council taxpayers in their pockets. Or is that connection too close to rocket science for you?
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You don’t need to be a rocket scientist to understand that a PFI-funded incinerator will hit taxpayers much harder than an expanded recycling system, freddo.
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No Freddo, Veolia are paid a fixed amount per annum by the council (if the council bods are doing their jobs correctly). Why should it cost the council more if Veolia don’t collect as many cans as they would wish…unless someone has done the contracts badly…but that wouldn’t suprise me with you lot.
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i agree the best way to teach them a lesson is keep giving them stuff which is expensive to handle and deal with like plastic, cardboard etc but landfill all your scrap metal and cans
hit their profit margins where its hurts hopefully they will go back to france then!
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Agreed, cans should go in the bin, give your stuff to charity shops instead or take it over to the recycling centre in telford which appreciates it
veolia sends everything to china anyway so there is no point recycling, they dont care so why should we?
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Surely we just need to urge the council to get a waste contractor which prioritises recycling over incineration.
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i have contempt for shropshire councillors
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veolia are not fit for purpose
a small child with a lego truck could do a better job at picking up cardboard than them
they have all the trucks, the men and the boxes in place to deliver the service and they are paid nearly £30,000,000 a year of my taxes and yet they cant figure out how to collect it – they boast they are the biggest waste company in britain – they have contracts all over europe for collecting cardboard and yet they claim its not possible in shropshire
im dumb founded – its simply impossible to be that inept they clearly arent bothered so bye bye then as sir alan would say you’re fired
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i think its a joke that they are running trucks round the countrysdie all winter collecting thin air
the grass dont grow in december we dont need our green bins for anything but cardboard that is obviously what they wanna focus on
are they thick or what?
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There is a principal at stake here.
It has been set by the council.
They will not collect from you, you need to take it to *their* collection depot or bin it.
I am now applying this principle to my council tax.
If they wish to have it they can collect it from *my* collection depot (which is under the back doormat). If it’s not been taken in 12 months I assume they don’t need it and shall dispose of it as I see fit. If it’s gone in the meantime I’ll assume the council has done the right thing.
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waste is a stain on the good name of shropshire council
there are people at the council working hard to make it better but every time the imbeciles in waste let them down. i do feel sympathy for the guys who pick up the bins, sweep the streets and teach the kids etc, they are workign well and we must not blame them they have enhanced the reputation of the whole county of shropshire but the people in shirehall who make these decisions are so out of touch with reality they besmirch the reputation of all the people in shropshire and the entire institution
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“are they thick or what?”
Yes I’m afraid they probably are and grossly overpaid for not doing a very simplistic job very well too!
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if my window cleaner left my windows all smeery i wouldnt pay him, so if veolia break their contract mid way through and only do half a job why are they guarenteed a 27 year contract with no competition? get the lawyers on it, sack them off and get the lads from telford in to do it instead. collect a full mix of plastics and cardboard and batteries from the doorstep and for less money too
bye bye veolia or should that be au revoir
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if they cant do the job get telford council in to collect the bins i say
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