Return of Shropshire cardboard collection ruled out
Thursday 15th December 2011, 9:00PM GMT.
The decision to scrap kerbside cardboard collections will not be overturned despite a petition with more than 1,000 names being presented to Shropshire Council.
South Shropshire resident Patrick Cosgrove, who organised the petition, today spoke at a meeting of the authority’s full council asking for the collections to be reinstated.
But councillors voted against this by 44 votes to 19. Two councillors abstained from voting.
Before the vote took place Mr Cosgrove told councillors: “This is utterly stupid, not cost-effective and very bad environmentally.”
Councillor Mike Owen said although the council would have liked to carry on with the service national guidelines on standards of garden compost waste meant it could not.
Council leader Keith Barrow said the matter had been taken out of the council’s hands because of the European legislation.
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Absolutely ridiculous! We are constantly being told to recycle. What would you like me to do with my full bin of cardboard Mr Councillor. It has been sitting outside my house for weeks! Climb in and empty it all out? Strap it to my car roof to take to the tip? Sort it out……
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Once again the council ignore the voice of the people….
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LOL Here we go agine European legislation.
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It isn’t legislation, it is a quality standard. It only applies where cardboard is being composted. Other authorities still collect carboard and, recycle it into cardboard. Why does Shropshire Council not look at how other Council’s achieve their recycling targets, after all, they only need go to Telford.
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i would like to know the names of the councillors who refuse us our basic right our pre paid for service which they have now decided to stop
shame on them
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Just great more fuel for Irresponsible Neighbours to Burn in there Gardens and something new to Fly Tip :(
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these councillors are showing total distain for the people who pay their wages
VOTE THEM OUT, its time for a change
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the black bins overflowing now i cant beleive how much cardboard we get through as a family its on everything
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Can anyone tell me what compost has to do with cardboard?
What are people supposed to do with their cardboard.
With Christmas coming up there will soon be alot of cardboard needing disposed of after presents have been opened.
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So why if the reason for stopping collections is the standards of garden compost waste produced and NOT JUST ANOTHER MONEY GRABBING EXERCISE
WHY ARE MOST OTHER COUNCILS STILL COLLECTING IT ??????
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eg Powys, Telford and Wrekin, Wolverhampton etce etc
NB Staffordshire Moorlands Council, like Shropshire Council, used to collect cardboard with green waste until the new Association for Organic Recycling rules prevented them from continuing (nothing to do with Europe, Mr Barrow).
Since 8th December 2011 Staffordshire Moorlands collect householders’ cardboard in a different bin and then RECYCLE it.
If Staffordshire Moorlands can do it without any interruption to the kerbside collection, could Mr Owen explain to the people of Shropshire why exactly we cannot?
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Its all good and well telling us to go to the Recycling Centres to get rid of our cardboard.
I went up to the Shrewsbury Recycling Centre myself at the weekend. The queues were stretching back out towards the roundabout and this was at around 3pm on a Saturday!! Why was this?? Because its the only place we can take the cardboard to.
If 100000 residents have to use one small facility, people will stop recycling once it becomes too much of a chore. Sort it out Shropshire Council!!!!!
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If Telford & Wrekin can still do it why can’t Shrewsbury? If they had the will to they’d find a way – can we expect a reduction in the cost of our council tax to compensate us for the fuel costs of taking it to the recycling centre? Probably not – shame on you council.
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They won’t collect cardboard because it can’t be recycled. But we are then supposed to take it to the recycling skips ourselves? Am I missing something?
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So many people are angry about this, we should all get together and protest. What a joke, they just want the incinerator built.
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As I understand it, the new regulations mean that cardboard can no longer be *composted*. This doesn’t mean it can’t be *recycled*. This is unlikely to have been a sudden decision on the part of the EU, so one does wonder why Shropshire Council didn’t see it coming and take steps to find an alternative destination for cardboard.
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I live in the High Peak (Buxton) my council will now supply plastic bags for card board to recycle.
A green bin, blue bag for newspapers, green box for cans and bottles, I live 300yards from the nearest place the recycling lorry collects. I am going to apply for a reduction in council tax as I am doing the councils job, + every other week our black bin.
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Every other Council in the UK seems to be ahead of the game – people can put all of their recycling in together; plastic, glass, cans etc. – it is then collected and sorted by the Council.
Shropshire Council has signed a contract with Veolia for many millions which appears to have tied them to a relatively antequated recycling system involving separate boxes/bins, the incinerator at Battlefield and new premises in Bridgnorth… A contract without any consultation with the PEOPLE of the County!
They have spent the last 5 years drumming it into everyone in the County that we should recycle. Finally the majority of people are doing our planet good and dutifully RECYCLING – AS WE SHOULD! After all the world produces TOO MUCH waste to put into landfill – and landfill poisons our earth; we SHOULD be recycling to preserve our precious planet!
So… now what’ve they done? Taken the option away from us to recycle cardboard at home. This is ridiculous. Not everyone has the transport to take their cardboard recycling to Battlefield plant, plus the recycling plant can’t handle the amount of people needing to take their recycling up there.
The whole recycling system in Shropshire needs a thorough overhaul to bring it up-to-date. However, by tying themselves into an expensive long term contract with Veolia the Council has now made themselves a very messy and expensive bed to lie in…. How about Shropshire Council CONSULT with the public next time? I’ll be surprised if the millions the Council has to fork out to clean up this gigantic mess isn’t then reflected in our taxes. Why do we have to cover their mistakes?
This is by no means a favourable solution BUT if everyone puts their cardboard into domestic waste bins the Council will be bound by law to revisit and change their recycling processes when the weight of the waste goes over the EU landfill allowance targets set by Defra… I just hope that everyone recycles cardboard again as soon as we get the opportunity. It has taken quite some time to change global recycling habits for the good of our planet and we deserve the right to have a state-of-the-art system to be proud of in Shropshire.
Shropshire Council please LISTEN to us!
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Why cant they just collect cardboard every other week like before in our green bins, instead of garden waste, as i cant imagine many people having much garden waste this time of year.
OK we get the point that cardboard cant be composted anymore, but Veolia should still collect it – even if it is to go landfill, they are still paid to collect it
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Ok i give into the fact that our cardboard wont be collected for recycling. So we now need general waste bins collected weekly.
Im thinking of starting another pertition – this time asking for weekly general waste to be collected again.
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Does anybody know how to obtain the voting records of these councillors? I can find out how an MP voted on an issue, but no councillors. They should be made public on their website.
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Liam,a recorded vote was taken on the proposal to refer it back to Council overview & scrutiny where we could have another look to see if we are doing enough as a Council to sort this out! – All of the Lib Dem, Labour & Independant members who were at the meeting voted for this, whilst all of the Conservative members voted against, apart from Conservative Cllrs Tim Barker & Dave Roberts who abstained.
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Why are so many councillors going against what the public want and need? Every other county collects cardboard so why can’t we have this service?
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How are we going to rebuild trust in the political process if parties use meaningless slogans like ‘Think Green, vote Blue’ to get elected when this bears no relation whatsoever to the way that they vote on key decisions?
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well done to the liberal democrats in shropshire for standing up for real people i for one would welcome an election tommorrow to replace this out of touch conservative adminstration
bins are the main service the council does if they cant do them properly lets get them out and get the liberals in
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Not surprising that the Tories voted against referring the matter back for reconsideration. Veolia is a private company lobbying hard to get an incinerator. They’ve already handed a 25 year contract to them on a plate. It seems that there is nothing the Tories will not do to channel our money to their friends whilst totally ignoring our views.
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We have weekly (domestic)collections in the town centre. I don’t see why people in other parts of the town should have a different service.
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Maybe we should put all our cardboard outside the doors or Shirehall. I’m sure they’ll soon get the message that something needs to be done then.
I am very confused though – the Council say they are no longer able to recycle the material so it won’t be collected. So why are they telling us to take it to the RECYCLING centre?! This clearly suggests that it can be reycled!! So what is going on :S
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We will have to go back to weekly collections, I have loads of waste now my grey bin is full of cardboard. They can’t get away with this.
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I have started an e petition asking the council to bring back the weekly general waste collections, as soon as the petition is active ill post the link.
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they are just not listening to the people who pay for them, its not right, they are blind to our suffering and ignorant of the hassle this brings to real people who have to deal with this stuff on their behalf despite paying for it
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Surely Shirehall itself has waste cardboard to dispose of. Does Ryley load this into his car and take it to Battlefield, or do they have an arrangement with Veolia??? No, they wouldn’t do that —–would they???????
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Does anyone know how to go about finding out the names of the councillors who voted against, in this ballot ?
This is just crazy, on our green waste collection day last week, hardly a green bin at the side of the road, and grey bins already overflowing.
I shall remember this, next time we vote for our councillors.
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just dont vote conservative then please, they always do this to public services
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Can we get a list of how Councillors voted, in order to make our feelings known come election time. I for one would vote for any that opposed the reinstatement.
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so they have backtracked on their earlier promises already, same old tories…
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Here is a link to a Petition ive started to try and get the council to bring back weekly general waste collections.
http://petitions.shropshire.gov.uk/consult.ti/system/viewPetition?petitionid=4394
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What a load of whining whingers you all are. Haven’t you got anything better to do than moan? Get some positivity in your small minds and take a hint from John F Kennedy
And so, my fellow Shropshirites: ask not what your country can do for you – ask what you can do for your country.
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except in the usa they dont pay 2 grand a year council tax do they, so it might be reasonable to DIY there. However I have paid for the service and the tories have cut it to save cash and then they made up an excuse about EU composting regulations which is just untrue. any google search shows that plenty of other councils in the uk and the eu compost cardboard. it is not illegal. the tories are making it up!
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Ditto my previous comment!
I have to agree its not about EU composting regulations but it is about the choices the composting businesses are making and the timing of their PAS 100 checks. Do you deny them the opportunity to make the best of their businesses because you pay council tax and your cardboard isn’t getting collected? Of course you don’t, that would be childish and self centred.
Unfortunately googling doesn’t give you the whole picture, you need to do more research if you are really bothered about the facts.
This situation doesn’t have anything to do with saving money and it doesn’t have anything to do with the politicians – however much you want it to be their fault.
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Freddo, which of the following would you define as ‘positive’?
1) Shropshirites recycling more and more every year for their county, thus avoiding landfill taxes (2006/7 Shropshirites recycled 27% of our waste; 2010/11 Shropshirites recycled 52.6% of our waste. See http://www.shropshirestar.com/news/2011/06/03/more-than-half-of-shropshires-waste-being-recycled/ )
2) Conservative Councillors voting to stop this positive upward trend by ending kerbside collections of cardboard with green waste and not introducing a replacement cardboard-collection scheme, as other authorities have done.
3) Staffordshire Moorlands Council replacing their cardboard/green waste collection scheme on the 8th December 2011 with a cardboard recycling scheme ( See http://www.recycleforstaffordshire.org/all-change-for-cardboard-collection-in-staffordshire-moorlands/ )
4) Veolia charging the council to send out trucks to collect green waste at Christmas time, when there are huge amounts of valuable, recyclable cardboard and not very much green waste.
5) 2 volunteers from Transition Towns Shrewsbury, Katy Anderson and Ali Thomas, saying that 4) makes ‘no economic or environmental sense’ and starting Cardboard Christmas to turn our waste into a Christmas present for Severn Hospice and Hope House ( See http://www.transitiontownshrewsbury.org.uk/cardboard-christmas/ )
Which of the above do you think best captures the sense of altruism which inspired JFK, Freddo?
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I think the same applies to your research as to Keith’s!
Did you not notice that Staffordshire Moorland residents swapped from putting their cardboard in their bin with garden and food waste to putting it in another bin with the other recyclables, a bin which they already had or did you not see the relevance of that.
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Couldn’t Shropshirites put their cardboard in another of their 3 recycling bins like Staffordshire Moorlands residents, Freddo?
Or would that require JFK-type positive thinking, which you say we lack in this part of the country?
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Hardly, not in the timescale they have used. We have separate recycling boxes in Shropshire not one recycling bin. Can you really not see the difference?
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Staffordshire Moorlands District Council managed the changeover from cardboard composting to cardboard recycling without ANY interruption of service, Freddo.
This changeover took place on December 8th 2011:
http://www.recycleforstaffordshire.org/all-change-for-cardboard-collection-in-staffordshire-moorlands/
This swift changeover means that Staffordshire Moorlands council is still making money from the waste by recycling the cardboard.
If an authority with one recycling bin can do it, using their own timescale, and 1,388 Shropshirites have petitioned our council to do the same ( http://petitions.shropshire.gov.uk/consult.ti/system/viewPetition?petitionid=3850&showall=Y ), then why can’t an authority where each household has 3 recycling bins?
Do you think that JFK would have needed as much thinking time as Veolia and our councillors to come up with a solution, Freddo?
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Will you stop moaning about recycling…just bin it like I do
The world’s not going to end tomorrow.
Gary
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So we stop recycling and we have to much waste for landfill, what then?
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they they tax your house more to cover the extra landfill tax they need to pay for the government, either way we get robbed and get no service
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i would but there is no space in my bin anymore its full with cardboard! thats the problem its too spacious
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Yes and while you are at in bin your cans because thats where veolia realy makes the profit, all the metal is sky high in value now, so if you want to get back at them dont recycle your cans bin them instead and fly tip your cardboard on shire hall and make them pay to have it collected from there!
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Council leader Keith Barrow said the matter had been taken out of the council’s hands because of the European legislation.
Let’s get this straight,cardboard cannot be mixed in with garden compost in the green bin due to legislation change – agreed.
But why can’t it be collected separately from the kerbside?
The European legislation doesn’t stop kerbside collections it only stops cardboard being mixed in with garden compost.
Mr Barrow needs to get his act together especially when it comes to giving excuses for the now non defunct kerbside collection of cardboard.
Pathetic.
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wrong
there is no such legislation
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this was Keith Barrows decision, not an EU decision. Other councils in the UK are still composting cardboard and garden waste together, see http://www.eastbourne.gov.uk/environment/waste/garden-waste/kerbside/cardboard-in-your-garden-waste/
so its not illegal is it Keith, come on, own up to it, you know its not even across the UK let alone other parts of the EU
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Yes there is ,there is European Legislation that refers to material that is detrimental to peoples health through any food contact in this case cardboard mixed in with compost in the green bin.
Cardboard cannot be mixed in with compost in the green bin because of the poisonous inks printed on the material,if mixed in with compost these inks will eventually poison the food grown with the compost.
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nonesense john NOT TRUE
please dont cause a food scare based on untruths
inks are safe
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This whole thing has been handled rather badly both from a PR perspective but also from a practical angle it seems like the council is being someone badly advised both on the technical and practical aspects of waste collection which can only be a failing on the part of veolia but also on the legislative aspects – for example the council has publically stated that it is illegal and against the EU composting regulations to compost cardboard but there is no such EU Directive in existance.
Looking at the PAS100 standard (google it) and you will see that in fact cardboard is specifically list as a suitable input material for composting and it cannot be illegal because there are councils up and down the length and bredth of england who still compost it.
The Council also has publically said its vehicles cannot collect cardboard and yet in telford they not only put cardboard into identical trucks but they also take a wider range of plastics too.
Clearly waste collections in shropshire have gone badly wrong since privatisation the council has blindly stumbled from one disaster to the next, cutting service after service back and failing to do basic things like pick up bins in some areas. I think a route and branch review of the whole veolia contract is called for with a view to termination based on failure to perform and the resulting reputational damage that they have inflicted on the council.
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The policies of this council are insane. They have no regard for the people they serve. They seem far more occupied in maintaining their over their over-indolgent allowance packages.
At the next election I suggest we recycle this useless bunch of expensive fools.
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“Council leader Keith Barrow said the matter had been taken out of the council’s hands because of the European legislation.”
WRONG, WRONG, WRONG! Check your facts mr barrow
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this is rediculous – at christmas of all times they give us a collection service for GRASS CUTTINGS!!! are they thick or what?
we need cardboard picking up not grass its winter for gods sake – these people are incompetent and should be sacked
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This planet has been here over 1.5 billion years and since then 95% of all life ot has produced has become extonct naturally without any interference from man. We have been on this planet less than 200,000 Do you really think that recycling cardboard is going to change anything?
No! this planet will rule over you and me long after we are gone .. yes and even our children’s children’s this will continue until it’s time for the planet to go supernovas which it will.
We can save the whale, save the snail, make cycle lanes for all the car owning cyclists who profess to be green but still own vehicles… Yeh right!
You can’t seriously believe that by placing your empty cereal packet in a recycling bin will extend the life humans or this planet …. Just let the cardboard rot in landfill it will make no difference to me to you or the planet.
Gary
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Recycling creates more jobs than incineration, Gary. Are you as indifferent about that?
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but all the jobs are in china so who cares!
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A publicly available Friends of the Earth report called ‘More jobs, less waste’ (September 2010) concluded:
‘If an ambitious but achievable recycling target of 70% for municipal waste was set and achieved by 2025, then conservative estimates suggest that across the UK this could create 29,400 new direct jobs in recycling, 14,700 indirect jobs in supply chains and
7,300 induced jobs in the wider economy relative to 2006.’
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Every other council in the UK collects cardboard, some for composting and some for recycling, but none are stupid enough to landfill this useful and valuable resource
For Veolia to deploy this as their prefered operation and for Shropshire Council as the contracting partner to allow them to do this is very suspicious
I suspect it is linked to their mutual aim to inflict a multi-million pound incinerator (which will cost taxpayers £125 per tonne of waste burned) on the town. This PFI funded burner is rented from veolia at vastly inflated interest rates. It will burn over 100,000 tonnes of rubbish every year (last year shrewsbury produced about 25,000 tonnes of rubbish
So they will need to have hundreds of truck loads of rubbish bought in from Oswesty, Whitchurch, Chester and probably even further afield, every day.
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disgraceful decision by a disgraced council
kick them out at the next election
i see my supposed local representative councillor mike owen not representing any one on meole estate at all and trying to defend the indefensible there. how about a lib/lab pact to oust him from meole brace at the next election? i reckon a joint candidate standing on an anti veolia ticket would easily get him out
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i’ve just completely lost faith with local democracy they are just as bad as the MP’s i think
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it does seem that veolia could not organise a drinking session in a brewery so what are we paying them for exactly?
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im not sure these councillors are qualified to take such decisions they are clearly not capable of doing a bit of research into other councils seervices and are reliant on the information fed to them by veolia which is clearly not accurate
they have demonstrated everything that is wrong with politics today and should hang their head in shame or better still resign before we vote them out at the next election
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pathetic that they shut down debate like this,
surely the whole point of a scrutiny committee is to check into the detail and facts of things to check that decisions were taken in good faith and with accurate information provided etc
what are they hiding?
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bunch of clowns! just pick it up, its not hard! they think they are worth a 27 year contract! i think they are not fit to wipe my shoes!
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its a poor show by the council and veolia they should both be sacked, just give us the money back and i’ll organise my own private collection with a decent firm and keep the change too ta
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.
I wonder if the council still employs a recycling officer and support staff.
If so, their qualifications to have got the job should make them the ideal person to advise how to proceed. But it seems as if the only response is “bin it” or “use a lot of time and fuel to take it to a recycling centre where the council will bin it because it cannot be recycled”.
And yes, in response to an earlier question, where do the council send their cardboard now?
Easy answer: just bin it.
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I bet the council’s recycling officers were as appalled by this political decision by Conservative councillors as most of the people in this forum, Rodney, because they know that it makes no environmental or economic sense.
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All of their cardboard goes to China Rodney as its such low quality its got all sorts in there its full of general rubbish and stuff which is why the farmers dont want it anymore, if people made more effort to take the selotape off and stuff it wouldnt have to go to china and they could still recycle it on the fields of shropshrie farms
in fact very few uk firms recycle cardboard the majority goes to china where it is “alledgedly” recycled
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What would be the best name for vested interests to use in this debate, ‘eco warrior’?
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Here’s a conundrum… when you take your cardboard to the recycling centre in Battlefield, only to find that the queues are stretching almost out on to the adjacent roundabout, why is it prohibited to park your car elsewhere and walk the waste into the centre?
It amuses me greatly that they try and encourage recycling, under a banner of being environmentally friendly, but then make people sit in queues for ages with their engines running.
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Show them how annoyed and ticked off people are, deposit your xmas cardboard outside the council office on boxing day.
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its absolutely shocking levels of customer service, if it were any other business then veolia would go bust, you cannot treat your customers like that. We pay for the service, if its not up to scratch a full refund is required by law!
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Another Epic Fail from those clowns at shropshire council/veolia
its time for a change, ideally away from conservatives completely but i will vote for any councillor of any party who stands on a ticket of tearing up the veolia contract and getting a decent provider in to do bins instead
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another failed tory privatisation
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mine goes in the black bin now, not really bothered any more if the council cant be bothered why should I ? I think I might stop recycling completely to be honest its a pain and i have plenty of space in the black bin
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I can understand why the councillors voted against having a public enquiry into this decision because it may have found out some home truths and revealed that shropshire council is rubbish. It would have been politically embarrassing for them because it would have offered the public the opportunity in 5 minutes to come up with solutions which veolia have been unable to come up with in 5 months and it would have revealed the complete mismanagement of recycling in shropshire since privatisation came in the council has had a cosy friendly relationship with veolia which is not in the interests of taxpayers. They should be fighting for the public interest, forcing veolia to come up with solutions and ensuring value for money. Clearly they are not.
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Anyone know when the next coucil elections are? It doesnt matter which party you support, we need to replace the current lot!
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shutting down the debate hey, time for some Freedom of Information requests me thinks hey?
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You can complain to the local government ombudsman
http://www.lgo.org.uk/making-a-complaint/
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a shocking decision, why would they vote not to just look into the detail of this, surely such a major service for the council deserved to be examined in detail because it seems the decision was made down the pub on a friday night by a drunk, with hind sight it was clearly the wrong decision and other options would have been better but they were not examined enough. this matter needs to be looked at again so more mistakes are not made in future like this.
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I went to the tip (recycling centre) at Oswestry on Saturday. Collection of glass bottles, beer cans, plastic bottles and cardboard.
Jobs worth noted I have a 4 wheel drive car. Apparently I need a permit to take a 4 wheel drive to the recycling centre and was told to leave.
Consequence the recyclable material is now put into my black bin to go to land fill.
Would Huw Peach, his green friends, the morons from the council, like to explain why those of us living off the beaten track in the country who use 4 wheel drive as a necessity are being further discriminated against? And why we should make any further effort to recycle as clearly my glass, cans and cardboard are not wanted.
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What sort of 4×4 is it, Rupert?
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According to the council’s site ( http://www.shropshire.gov.uk/waste.nsf/open/CD277B56A40B9C4B80256C91003CC386 ) the only 4x4s that are not allowed into the Recycling Centre are ’4×4′s with a goods body’ or vehicles over 5 metres long /2.1 metres high.
Surely it would be better if the council collected all your recyclables from the kerbside, as demanded by Patrick Cosgrove’s petition.
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they could just put it all mixed in one bin and collect it together, this is what they do in worcester and it works well
i dont understand why peopple in shropshire are so insular that they cant go and learn from others JUST PICK UP THE PHONE! people in telford and worcester can pick up cardboard so just ask them how
its not difficult
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simple answer
if you want a decent service off your council
dont vote tory in future
sadly the people of shropshire are not bright they would vote for a sheep if you painted it blue and they will vote for tory councillors again even though they are not happy with this situation
what can you do i guess maybe just target certain councillors to oust them from their seats to make a point ?
keith barrows seat in oswestry would be a good one for starters
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i think its odd that our neighbouring councils of wrexham and cheshire both collect mixed cardboard and garden waste and compost it. why dont we just send out stuff there instead ? its only up the road. i find it a complete pain to be expected to store this stuff let alone take it to the tip which is about 12 mile round trip for me. this is just going to go in the bin for most people and then the jobsworths wont empty it if its overflowing. people who took this decision should be sacked imo
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what this proves is the inefficiency of public sector operators and the need to drive efficiencies out of local government by cutting back on their bloated budgets and getting more and more delivered by the voluntary sector and private sector if it is an essential service or removing it completely if it is not.
the fat cats in shirehall on their gold plated final salary pensions are laughing all the way to the bank at taxpayers expense yet they cant get even the basics right
these people should be sacked for inefficiency, you wouldnt get away with this in the real world
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shropshire council are the only council in the uk who dont collect cardboard!
even telford manage it
so shropshrie is the lowest of the low, literally
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If you live in Shrewsbury please support Cardboard Christmas and bring your recycling to one of our collection points on 7th January. We’ll be collecting from 9am to 2pm at the Red Barn, Longden Road, United Reform Church, Abbey Foregate and Riverside Elim Church in Harlescott. We’ll be running cardboard cafés with coffee, cake and music so you can thaw out once you’ve brought your cardboard. We’ll have trucks lined up ready to take the cardboard to the reprocessors and any money we make will go to the Severn Hospice and Hope House.
To keep the cardboard miles down we’re asking everyone who has a bit of space to collect cardboard for their street and bring it across on the 7th. If you’re stuck for transport we will come and collect – but sorry we can’t collect from individuals.
Cardboard Christmas is being run by volunteers with support from local waste businesses Cwm Harry, Reviive and Cae Post. Please get in touch if you can give us a hand alison.thomas08@gmail.com
Thanks Ali and Katy
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