Call for action over ‘under-filling’ pints of beer
Monday 12th December 2011, 9:00PM GMT.
Government action is needed to tackle the practice of ‘under-filling’ pints of beer which has become widespread in the industry, a pub tenants union said today.
The GMB wrote to Consumer Affairs Minister Ed Davey saying that commercial and other contracts were now based on targets which were proving impossible to meet without under-filling drinks in pubs.
The union claimed there was confusion over the size of foam head on a pint of beer, with a legal minimum of 95 per cent liquid being interpreted as a maximum by many pub chains.
The practice was making life difficult for tenants, whose rents and bonus payments were being fixed on yields that could not be achieved if pints were filled to 100 per cent of liquid, said the union.
Officials have urged the Government to order an urgent review of how the law on what constitutes a pint was being applied in pubs.
“We need this as GMB members who run pubs are being put under financial pressures to under-fill.”
He added: “There is a need for clarity so that when a customer orders a pint and pays for a pint, they should get a pint,” said the letter.
A barmaid at the Six Bells, at Bishop’s Castle, who has asked not to be named, said her customers always received a full pint locally.
And she said it would be difficult for publicans to try to short-change customers because weights and measures were strictly controlled.
The barmaid explained: “There are lines on glasses, clearly marking the pint measure.
“Most glasses actually hold more than a pint of beer, but there is a mark just below the rim.
“The glass is filled to the line, leaving a little space at the top for the head.”
Shrewsbury homebrew enthusiast Simon Alton said: “The beauty of brewing your own beer at home means you can fill your pint glass as many times as you like without having to get your wallet out.
“But when drinking in pubs, customers deserve a full pint.
“Beer drinkers should be getting value for money and good pubs use over-sized glasses with the pint measure clearly marked, or should always offer a top-up.”
Shropshire Council’s trading standards department also makes sure that publicans do not short change punters.
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Has the Shrewsbury homebrew enthusiast calculated all his costs, including the time he spends faffing about making mediocre ale?
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I’ve been looking into home brewing and it’s possible to make ale at least as good as your favourite tipple. As for the costs… about 50p per bottle. If brewing 24 bottles per month, the return on the kit investment comes in at around 3 months. Time is free because it’s a hobby, not a job.
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We started home brewing this summer. The beer, cider and wine we make tastes amazing. It’s not a lot of work and you end up with very good, but cheap drinks. We know the kits we like now and stick to them mainly, but it’s always nice to try making something new. We save lots of money and have a store of great drinks for the Christmas period.
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If I get a pint that’s under-filled I simply ask for it to be topped up. Usually works. I find that it’s not usually a problem in Shropshire though and certainly not at any decent pub.
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Government intervention my a**e!
You simply ask the bar tender – politely – to top it up. In decent pubs, most offer to do it before you need to ask. If they refuse to top it up then you’re not in a decent pub and it’s time to leave.
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Absolutely agree Jake.
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Also check the side of the glass for a pint marker. Some pubs provide glasses where you get a pint line and space for a head on the beer and others consider the head to be part of the beer. So just asking to top it up still might not mean you get a ‘full pint’
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Good advice. I’m happy for the head to make up part of the pint in an unmarked glass as long as it isn’t excessive. A few millilitres is neither here nor there, but 10% definitely isn’t acceptable.
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“Shropshire Council’s trading standards department also makes sure that publicans do not short change punters.”
That should probably read “are supposed to make sure”…
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No GB, I think it’s reading correctly.
If you believe you are getting short measure, phone trading standards, and they WILL investigate, and prosecute where necessary.
They cannot be expected to have an inspector standing in every pub for every minute they are open, so they rely on complaints.
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Any landlord deliberately underfilling or condoning it would be crazy. Us ale drinkers can actually speak to each other and exchange opinions and we are mobile…and reputations soon go before the pub
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Not a big drinker myself, but I would hazard a guess that if you and your cohorts are ‘ale’ drinkers, then it’s more likely you will be patronising proper pubs where these issues are most unlikely to occur in the first place – as you say, reputation is everything.
Would you not agree this is more likely to be a problem in the lager-bars where let’s face it, most of the punters would have difficulty spelling the word ‘pint’ never mind knowing what a full one is !!
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Yup, you’ve pretty much summed it up Shropsman!
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I totally agree.UK Lager ??? Eurofizz. Overpriced slop full of chemicals and preservatives, served so cold that it is impossible to tell if it has a taste or not.
Unlike real ales,every one of which has a flavour of it’s own and a taste which indicates immediately if it has not been kept and dispensed properly.
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Pubco’s have targets for the number of pints from a barrel. In the past I have seen a Bass memo ordering publicans to get 54 pints from a 50 pint barrel. It’s all about profit you know!
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Except it’s exactly these pubco pubs that are closing all the time (before some new tenant wastes their time and money taking up the lease and tie). A decent pub – serving beer properly – will keep customers and stay profitable.
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Spot on. There’s more money in property development than there is in the pub trade. If a pubco can quietly run a place down and then demonstrate to the Council that there’s no demand for it, they can speed up a change of use application, board up the building and sell the plot for a tidy sum.
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Wow! That’s incitement to steal/ fraud
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the other week I was served on undersized pint in a pub, the barman said that,s £2.80 I gave him £2.5 you have not given me enough! I pointed to my 3/4pint and said well, he begrudgingly filled it properly. sometimes actions speak louder than words.
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I like your style! I asked for a spoon the other night to help me get down to the beer, with the result that I ended up with two foaming pint glasses each two thirds full of liquid (Sadly, I suspect the boards will be over the windows of yet another lovely old pub after Christmas – thanks to a greedy, unrealistic brewery forcing out a capable Landlord.)
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Surely the point of this story is that the GMB feels it’s staff are being put under undue pressure to behave in an illegal fashion.
It’s nice to know that this doesn’t happen in the Six Bells or that a home brew enthusiast doesn’t have the problem, or that readers know how to ask for a top-up, but this has nothing to do with the core issue.
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That depends. If it bothers enough people they’ll avoid the pubs that are notorious for it. Poor service doesn’t attract much repeat custom and hits the bottom line quickly and hard. If it doesn’t bother enough people… well, then it’s all a bit of a storm in a pint pot.
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So, the tenant is either forced to eventually go bust or defraud their customers.
So, the brewery either gets to flog off the pubs that pander to customers that are concerned about value for money or they get profit by illegal means from the others. Either way they’ll be quite happy about it.
Fair enough. Can’t see what the GMB are moaning about.
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Yep, I suspect that pubcos are merely facades. Behind the scenes is a lucrative property development business.
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Section 42 of the Weights and Measures Act was supposed to sort out what constitutes a full pint. It was brought in in 1985, never implemented and revoked a number of years ago after intense lobbying by Pubco’s. CAMRA and the Publicans association produce guidlines but they are dependant on local custom as in some parts of the country a larger head is served. These are used as the basis for short measure. The head of a pint should be about 5% of the glass. Short Measure prosecution is usually taken at 10%. You have to bear in mind that most pint glasses are slightly oversize (about 1%). There is also precedent that for stouts such as Guiness where the head is actually taken to be part of the liquid served.
If you think you are regularly being short changed and the bar worker refuses to top up your pint, complain to Trading Standards but as they only have 2 part time officers doing inspections don’t expect much action.
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The Publicans need to have a look at Shropshire Council….because they’ve been short changing people for years.
Pot and Kettle
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What on earth has this issue got to do with Shropshire Council? I know the reporter mentions Trading Standards at the end of the story, but really… put another record on grandad.
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The fact that this item has finally made it to the top of the list of ‘most commented’ items (at time of writing) definitely shows the good readers of the Star have their priorities right.
Otherwise, Jake’s No3 comment echoes my thoughts.
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Never ever seen some one ask the bar tender to top it up , do they ?? is life that bad that you moan about a pint being just a little under?
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Never seen anyone ask? Have you ever actually been in a pub???
And as for moaning about being a little under, it’s the principle that matters. Paid for a pint, expect a pint. Would you accept it if Asda, for example, tipped away some of the pint of milk you’ve just bought then charged you full price? Or conversely, would they let you off 3p on said pint of milk becuase that’s all the cash you had on you? Fool.
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Asda?? you got more chance of losing your wallet
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Moan? no. I just ask for what I’m paying for. I regularly request a top up if its not been offered and all good pubs are happy to do so. I’ve never had a refusal, just an occasional surly glare.
A little under? Its often around 15% which on a pint costing £2.70 means you’re paying 40p for froth.
If you filled your car up with 60 litres of the finest unleaded and only got 51 litres you’d be complaining quick enough so what’s the difference?
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51 litres-60 litres yes i would complain but we are not talking litres here we are talking a spit full.
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How do you know what we’re talking about? You said yourself you’ve never seen anyone ask for a top up.
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I run a pub and we do stick buy the guidelines, a lot if the issues come down to equipment or bad service or the fact of both.
1. fonts that are set to dispense lager/ale that quick that you end up having to top it up to meet standards.
2. Overactive pint glasses the “head keeper” the head keeper in the bottom of the glass is pain in the rear, not just for the customer but staff too, due to the fact that the C02 reacting with the etched/stamped surface causing massive heads and mess. (gimmicks to make pints look better)
3.Bad/no staff training
Just ask at the bar while ordering “can i have very little head on the beer please that way the staff know for the next time”
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Must admit, i have seen more stand at the bar pub regs asking for a half in their pint after drinking over that , and the landlord where i go got sick of one guy he just started filling an half pint glass and handing it to him the guy ,never has taken the hint.
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I remember in days gone by, when the old people used to go to other pubs to play darts on a Monday and Dominoes on Wednesday nights, they used to order their pint, and if it was not to the top of the glass, they asked the barman if they could get a whiskey in the glass,if the barman said yes, they them replied, well fill it up with beer then.
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I feel that some of the blame for all this is the 500cc or half litre beer bottle which has now almost universally replaced the good old “honest” British Pint.
These “old” units of measure have evolved over centuries as meaningful, real, ways of determining what is “right”. An acre of land was how much land a man could plough between sunrise and sunset; a yard was nose to finger tips, and so on. A mile was 1,000 Roman paces, the distance of each pace being strictly implemented the marching Legions.
A Pint is the right amount of beer; not too much, not too little.
Some breweries still do use the Pint bottle, but these are increasingly rare. What are we left with? Meaningless measurements dreamed up by Napoleon Bonaparte (presumably in between Josephines).
Now where did I leave my 5/8ths AF spanner?
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I can just tell you’re going to love the new 2/3 pint measure.
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As fond as I am of the ergonomic imperial scale, and I am, can I just remind commentators, as I’ve tried once but clearly failed, the point of this story is that due to brewery business practices that are illegal and are being forced upon tied houses, publicans are being required to attempt to short change the customer or fail their contract (and all that potentially entails).
It matters not a jot that you can always ask for a top-up, or that you have a trick up your sleeve to cajole a landlord into serving you a full pint, or the size of the glass…the point the GMB is making is stated quite clearly in the article.
The article, I know, makes the mistake of then talking about an excellent micro-brewery tap and a home brewer not having the problem. This is hardly surprising. They perhaps spoke to the wrong people, or else found tied houses’ tenants unwilling to risk speaking to them.
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Suppards – what has bottles of beer (which, yes, do tend to be 0.5L these days) got to do with pubs not filling pint glasses with a pint of beer??
Pints are the legal method of serving draught beer and cider in the UK. Obviously if you buy a bottle and pour it into a pint glass it won’t reach the top. But that’s not what the point of this story is!
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