Letter: The need for bibles in schools
Friday 9th December 2011, 7:45AM GMT.
Having seen the headline, ‘Every school to get a King James Bible’ on the front page of the Shropshire Star recently, my heart jumped for joy.
At last, I thought, someone was doing something to promote Christianity and reinstate values and virtues, which are slowly being eroded.
Sadly, as I read the article, the usual garbage by the usual suspects was rolled out. Though these groups have given themselves fancy names, they are all atheists who try to deny the existence of a creator God.
These people fill our children with the unscientific, improvable lies of their version of how the world came to be. Ask one of these geniuses how (if Darwin is to believed in his fantasy story entitled The Origin of the Species) did the single cell come into being?
Any truthful scientist will tell you that the complexity of the single cell is so enormous that there is no way that bits of inanimate objects could bond themselves together, breathe life into themselves and then become a living being. It is absolutely impossible, which means that his whole theory is non-scientific nonsense.
Also ask these people about the ‘anthropic principles’ of which there are dozens, and each is finely tuned to enable life on earth. For example:
1. Earth is about 97 million miles from the sun. If we were a bit closer it would be too hot for life on earth, if it were a bit further away it would be too cold for life on earth.
2. If there was a little more oxygen in the air, we would have instantaneous combustion, if there was a little less oxygen we wouldn’t be able to breathe. Again life would not be sustainable on earth. As I have said there are dozens of these principles that the aforesaid groups of people label as being ‘a coincidence’.
With regard to the cost of supplying these Bibles to the schools – the cost of about £250,000 is a similar to a premiership footballer’s monthly pay. It is less than your average City of London banker would receive in bonuses each month. And from the Government spending point of view, it would hardly cover the cost of a single bombing mission over whichever country it feels like bombing.
Finally, but most importantly, the Holy Bible is not just a historically and culturally important book, it is the word of God, and every word from cover to cover is the truth and should be cherished.
J Mills
Admaston
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You state very categorically that Darwin’s book is mere fantasy………. Pot and kettle spring to mind.
If the lack of an explanation for single cell organisms is of concern to you I’m sorry – I dont know either. Can you tell me where God came from?? Who made him/her?
Finally if you believe that the holy bible is the word of god and totally accurate how do you allow for the various translations, changes in emphasis etc over the centuries?
I suggest that you accept that if there is a god of any creed he/she/they would prefer us to tolerate our differences and try not to cause problems for each other.
Happy Saturnalia
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‘he/she/they would prefer us to tolerate our differences and try not to cause problems for each other.’
Well now you’re trying to second guess God…this makes Him displeased.
Other examples of second guessing God include;
Assuming you’re going to heaven,
Assuming He likes the Bible after all the tinkering around we’ve done with it,
Assuming your interpretation of the Bible is the right one & assuming He wants you to write to a newspaper on the subject.
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Every word from cover to cover is the truth? Oh dear. Our school children need educational books, not fairy tales.
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Couldn’t agree more Ed. The Telegraph reported this week that one in three children aged between 8 and 16 in the UK don’t own a single book. How sad is that. The least we can do is make sure they get access to something interesting, engaging and useful at school. The bible is none of these, and neither are the bible bashers represented by this sadly deluded individual.
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I would advise a trip to “Monkey World” J. Mills, then you could clearly see where we came from.
Nonsense???? Well, you god squad members are experts in the nonsense field aren’t you?
Walking on water, Water into wine, raising the dead, feeding the 5,000 and having much more left over after than he started with, and of course, coming back from the dead himself.
Hmmmmmm.
Our children don’t need their heads filled with all that garbage when they start school. Teach them something useful, like modern languages or maths, not this unsubstantiated rubbish about some imaginary bloke.
Judging by all the bad things going on in the world today, this all seeing, all powerful god of yours seems to be on strike or permanent holiday.
If you want to indulge your fantasies, go ahead, but DON’T try and force your views on others.
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Every school should get a copy of ‘Everyone Poops’.
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“Unscientific and improvable” [sic]? Why, that’s the Holy Bible isn’t it?
Read Colin D’s last sentence, and go forth.
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“Read Colin D’s last sentence, and go forth” – and, in the cherished abd truthful words of the Bible – multiply…..
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Not much chance of a calm debate with J Mills then, seeing as anyone who disagrees with him/her is either a liar or a believer in un-scientific nonsense.
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Well, believers and non-believers will never convince each other, I’m not sure I can be bothered.
As far as I can make out, the lack of hard evidence for any kind of god is actually proof of ‘his’ existence – because blind faith is required. What would be the virtue in religious belief if the evidence was clear for all to see?
Therefore rational debate is pretty much a non-starter.
Most schools will already have a bible, so no big deal there. Some self-important twit (Gove) apparently feels qualified to add a foreword to this mighty work, but I don’t really mind.
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”
“I refuse to prove that I exist,” says God, “for proof denies faith, and without faith I am nothing.”
“But,” says Man, “the Babel fish is a dead giveaway isn’t it? It could not have evolved by chance. It proves you exist, and so therefore, by your own arguments, you don’t. QED”
“Oh dear,” says God, “I hadn’t thought of that,” and promptly vanishes in a puff of logic.
“
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It was only a matter of time :)
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“These people fill our children with the unscientific, improvable lies of their version of how the world came to be”
Oh wow, so much irony……………..
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There IS a god, he manages Liverpool FC. Oh hang on, he’s a king not God. God no longer plays for them :)
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HAHA :) YNWA!
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Unbelievable.
So much that is so wrong with this letter! Even children can see through all this rubbish, same way as they see through santa claus, the tooth fairy and Harry Potter.
I really can’t understand why somebody would reject the notion of the big bang etc, in favour of a big bloke in the sky who does magic.
Why did the Star print this letter? Is this a new comedy feature? Can we expect other features of this type in the future? Maybe a letter from some maniac claiming that the earth is flat? Or someone claiming faeries live at the bottom of their garden?
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Big Bang theory? There’s nothing for a Christian to disagree with in that IMHO.
If in any doubt, just ask yourself – who lit the blue touchpaper?
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Oh please! Religious types always adapt the ‘story’ to suit themselves as scientific understanding progresses.
Initially “God created plants and animals”. Then came the Theory of Evolution, at which point teh view shifted to “Of course, God was the architect who set the parameters”.
Initially “God created the Universe”. Then came the Big Bang theory, at which point the story changed to “Ah yes, but who lit the blue touchpaper?”
There is so much we still don’t know and we’ll never stop discovering, but it’s utter nonesense to fill in the gaps with “It’s God’s doing, obviously”.
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“If in any doubt, just ask yourself – who lit the blue touchpaper?”
So basically, god just fills in any gaps in our knowledge, like some sort of ectoplasmic poly-filler?
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Why oh why, is that Christians think that only they can lay claim to having values and virtues. I am a lifelong aetheist who spends time helping others in varying capacities from being a school governor to simply being a good neighbour. Get off your high horse J Mills and get out into your community where you might find something useful to do.
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I’m also a lifelong atheist who has always tried to do the “right thing”. I also have had many friends and acquaintances over the years who are committed christians, but would be appalled by the views expressed by J Mills, who seems to be one step away from urging the burning of heretics at the stake.
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I am an atheist and of good morals, I do what is right because I believe in doing what is right – not out of fear of God or to ensure a place in heaven.
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I think David Thorne summed it up brilliantly when, in response to someone’s assertion that “[The Bible] teaches a set of ethics that are sadly not taught by parents nowadays”, he wrote (sarcastically):
“Practising a system of ethics based on the promise of a reward, in your case an afterlife, is certainly preferable to practising a system of ethics based on it simply being the right thing to do.”
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the bible,a book writen 400 years after it’s so called events took place.
how could that possibly all be taken as true,when just word of mouth gets so twisted & distorted the more people that pass it on to eachother with other stories.
also why do the majority of religions biblical readings all sound so similar but with different characters?.
& why does the bible imply adam & eve are white,when white skin is the newest form of human colour.
personally i’m more inclined to believe that humans in the current form was not the first inteligent species to roam this planet,& history as we know it is false about things like egyptians builing the pyramids & the many other ancient landmarks which would have taken more than primative hammer’s & chisels to create these megalithic structures that are built with such huge stones,presision of craftman ship with perfect cuts,knowledge of the stars alignments & such.
to say the least,something is wrong with our knowledge of the true history on this planet & i for one would love to know the truth of what’s happened in the history of this planet we call home.
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The bible was not written 400 years after the events. It was written by eyewitnesses not long after the time. The oldest fragment is from 125 AD which was in the lifetime of Jesus’ disciples and there are many other ancient fragments. The New Testament was in written form from the start, in fact Luke says that he set out to make a orderly account of the events that took place. It was not communicated by word of mouth but by being copied very carefully. Nowhere in the bible does it imply Adam and Eve were White. Where did you get that from?
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The old testament possibly had scraps of contributions from within 100 years of the time that Jesus was meant to have been around. However, the new testament is a watered down version contorted by translation errors & miss-tellings. The history of the bible as we know it now was decided during the 1st & 2nd councils of Nicea (325AD & 787AD) nowhere near the time of Christ. The bible is at best a scrap book of heresay & fairy stories decided upon by a commitee of old men, protection their intrests.
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“The bible is at best a scrap book of heresay & fairy stories decided upon by a commitee of old men, protection their interests”. You’ve hit the nail on the head there Monkey. The translation used in King James bible was deliberately skewed, on King James orders, to support the structure and offices of the Church of England. The language is archaic and deliberately obscure in order to keep the masses in check.
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Surely it is a self-defeating argument to suggest that the Bible is a fairy-story and to suggest it shouldn’t be in every school ?
Where else should fairy stories be if not in Schools ?
Admittedly, it’s not up there alongside ‘Three Little Pigs’ but, as I recall there is a bit about ‘houses of sand’ which is nearly as good.
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In reply to your numbered points.
1) Not true. Extremophile bacterial life can exist at temperatures that your would much closer to and much further from our sun.
2) Oxygen is a byproduct of life. Life created Oxygen as a waste product. Life then adapted to use the oxygen. Indeed there are single cell organisms that live without oxygen.
With regard to the bibles in schools, I have no problem with that. As long as Christianity is taught as a belief system, and time is given to other belief systems.
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why lock a mind to a single belief,& then impose that belief onto others with no proof other than you believe it to be true or false or even possible.
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Wow, is this a first for the Star website? 14 comments plus replies, and all appear to be in agreement. So it’s correct when they say that Religion brings people together!!
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religion is at the heart of just about every conflict in human history – what is the point of this initiative? if you want to believe in this sort of thing then fine – just dont impose it on any one else and certainly not on our children. The church has little if not any influence on modern life so keep it out of our schools!
and before you ask I used to, many years ago, run a sunday school – however i grew up saw it for the sham it was and no longer believe in any aspect of religion generally. It makes my blood boil when fanatisicm in any form is allowed to imperviate our lifes.
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First and Second World Wars Andy? Wars are caused by those with fanatical adherence to a principle and dogma, whether based on religion or not.
The fact is that the progenitors of so-called ‘religious’ wars do so by flying in the face of the teachings of religion – Christianity and Islam included.
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Religion is a matter of personal choice when you are old enough to undertand and make that choice, it should not be taught or forced onto pupils in school. They should be allowed to seek information on religion when they wish to receive it.
Maybe then the brainwashing can stop.
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succintly put – 100% accurate and correct
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Never understood why the anti religion lot need to insult and ridicule believers in order to win an argument.
RELIGION offers comfort to many who are bereaved etc and depressed etc etc etc , it also offered comfort to thousands who have gone to their deaths “and the families of” during wars/conflicts and still does in fact , what is wrong with that?.
Do bibles have a place in schools?depends looking at it simply they preach and offer a way of life that is decent and moral whether you can maintain that life is debatable .
We have many on here bleating on about single mothers etc etc perhaps if they had followed the good book .
Putting the bible up against Darwin is to be honest ridiculous as for the truth and if indeed the bible is fiction then we all find out when it comes our time to move on , do i want to live a life which ends when i am old and frail if i am lucky, or do i want to think and possibly hope when we die it may just be the beginning.How can you put down some one down who hopes for that?.
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I imagine a lot of the ridicule and insult the “anti religious lot” can, at times, be guilty of is due to the refusal of the religious to engage in logical argument, and the way they tend to hide behind dogma and arrogant self importance whilst disseminating the outrages generalisations and patent untruths of their chosen belief system. Religion may offer some succor to the needy, however clinging to an unsubstantiated, and let’s face it, rather unlikely situation whereby the outcome is magically just what you want, is simply a case of wishful thinking.
“We have many on here bleating on about single mothers etc etc perhaps if they had followed the good book .” – Or perhaps we can encourage children to think for themselves and have a hand in creating a society in which they want to live. How far have we come as a civilization if we still have to rely on an outdated, self contradicting morass of ancient religious doctrine to tell us how to live in the 21st century?
It comes down to whether or not you want to be honest with yourself or if you’d rather suspend belief in reality and subscribe to what is essentially an iron age understanding of existence simply because it suits your circumstances at the time. Personally I’d rather be truthful with myself and accept reality for what it is, no matter how cold or how hard. I’m not going to tell people there is a guiding hand in their lives (other than their own) I’m not that arrogant. Nor can I say to them, or pretend to myself, that they are going to a better place when they die, or threaten them with a worse place if they haven’t adhered to a specific set of rules.
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Please don’t tell me the government has wasted millions of pounds in helping fund the
TERAELECTRONVOLT ENERGY SUPERCONDUCTING LINEAR ACCELERATOR when all we needed to do was read the James 1st Bible.
Not another admin oversight
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OMG this is a wind up really seriously please people in shropshire dont beleive in the bible do they? Nutters!
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Darwin’s book is titled ‘On the origin of species’. I’m guessing that if the author of the letter couldn’t even get the title right then it’s unlikely that they bothered to read it.
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The first time I saw the Christian ‘Icthus’ (fish) symbol on a car, having added legs and enclosing the name ‘Darwin’ in place of ‘Jesus’, I laughed out loud.
Now the joke is beginning to wear a bit thin. Why can’t non believers just get a life instead of trying to impose their wills on others, as they claim (falsely) the religious try to do themselves? Free will is the greatest gift of God, and we are free to choose – but without knowledge can there really be a choice?
That’s why religion should be freely taught and supported, and given an equal right to express itself – the same right exercised by those who have the opposite view.
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“That’s why religion should be freely taught and supported, and given an equal right to express itself – the same right exercised by those who have the opposite view.”
But that isn’t what the letter writer is suggesting, nay, demanding, is it? He is of the opinion that The Bible should be installed in every school and its content taught as truth and fact. It’s people like J Mills of Admaston who are targets for ridicule, not religion per se.
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Just wondering exactly which religion should be taught Mel? Surely there can only be one true religion? If so, which one is it? If there is only one true religion, what’s the point of teaching the others (surely that would just anger that particular God anyway)?
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Everyone knows it’s the Movementarians
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Well said Andy and A – exactly the sentiments that I was going to express. This makes me so angry.
As well as religion being the excuse for so much conflict in the world, you only have to look closer to home to see the abuse that it harbours. How can people in the churches turn a blind eye to this???
On another note closer to home, I will be taking notes from these comments to pass to Telford & Wrekin to consider with their proposals to spend millions on a ‘Christian faith academy’. If the proposal were for an Islam faith academy or Sikh or any number of other faiths, people would be up in arms. Why should a Christian faith academy get special treatment?
As other responses have said, schools should concentrate on broader education NOT preaching their particular faith.
I hope J Mills has the balls to read these comments and post a suitable apology. Doubt it somehow though.
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On another note closer to home, I will be taking notes from these comments to pass to Telford & Wrekin to consider with their proposals to spend millions on a ‘Christian faith academy’. If the proposal were for an Islam faith academy or Sikh or any number of other faiths, people would be up in arms. Why should a Christian faith academy get special treatment?
ANSWER
Because this is a christian country not a muslim or sikh country.
If a school is Cof E then it preaches that particular faith First while incorporating others.
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This is a secular country. But if you want to assign religion to it, then I guess that would be various cults. That’s how it was until some foreign invaders imposed an alternative cult of their own.
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It is not a secular country,
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Darn right, it’s not a Secular country it’s a Christian Country.
Last census c.71% identified themselves as Christians.
This is why the country is such a mess mind you.
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Maybe not secular, but definitely ambigous. Secularisation would be a logical and desirable next step.
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Of course its a secular country.Most of us do not go to church.We drink too much and sleep around.We celebrate pagan festivals like birthdays xmas halloween etc. So much of our lifestyle is not in the remotest way Christian.
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“Because this is a christian country not a muslim or sikh country”
It might have been 50 or 100 years ago, but it isn’t now. I’d say the majority would describe themselves as non-faith; other faiths form a large chunk of the rest with christian faiths the minority.
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Other faiths taking a large chuck and in turn making an impact on life in Britain, which religion in some form or other does and will, then the agnostic and non believer should be worried not all religions are as forgiving and as laid back as the christian religion .
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@ANDREW FINCH: So your rationale for choosing a religion is “it’s not as bad as some of the others”?
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@Jake
Isnt that most people’s reason?
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Great now the believers and nonbelievers
have had a little say can we now ban Christmas
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I have long held the belief that religion (of whatever flavour) is the original form of fascism, which is defined as “Fascists advocate the creation of a totalitarian single-party state that seeks the mass mobilization of a nation through indoctrination, physical education, discipline and family policy (such as eugenics). That state is led by a supreme leader who exercises a dictatorship over the fascist movement, the government and other state institutions.[6] Fascist governments forbid and suppress opposition.” (source : Wikipedia)
What better word describes religion? As for the Bible, a ripping yarn a thousand or so years ago, but nobody with more than two brain cells to rub together could believe in such utter tosh. I propose the removal of all religion from schools, and maybe as the children grow up, we’ll have less wars, most of which are founded by Religion A wishing to force itself on Religion B.
And for those who can summon any belief in religion, where was your God when your relative died far too early from cancer, was hit by a drunk driver, or otherwise suffered so unfairly?
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But why do you wish to take away or ridicule those that do? what is the point?.
Wars mmm that old chestnut, I do not believe the last two world wars or any conflict over the last 300 odd years were caused by religion excluding the land grab in Israel of course or are we going back to the crusade times .
Government Schools should be secular, however give people a choice but until they are and still remain CofE, catholic, etc etc then we respect that and run the schools incorporating that religion .If indeed the children s parents do not wish the off spring they have to participate in any religion based activity they have the right to exclude them from it .
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Hitler vs. Jews
N.Ireland Catholics vs. Protestants
Israel vs. Syria and others
Yugoslavia Serbs vs.Croatians
Russia most everyone vs. Jews
Iran and Iraq Shi’ites vs. I forget who the other ones are, it’s too boring to pay much attention.
etc etc etc
“My God is better than your God!”
And the breathtaking arrogance of any brand of Missionary – including the medieval Crusaders – who believes that a religious invasion and force-feeding of People A with People B’s religious drivel, is nothing short of astonishing.
I rest my case.
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Hitler vs. Jews
PART OF THE SECOND WORLD WAR NOT THE CAUSE
N.Ireland Catholics vs. Protestants
PART OF THE VIOLENCE AS THE IRA DID NOT SEE THEMSELVES AS BRITISH SUBJECTS
Israel vs. Syria and others
PART OF THE CAUSE
Yugoslavia Serbs vs.Croatians
AGAIN BECAME PART OF NOT THE CAUSE
Russia most everyone vs. Jews
Iran and Iraq Shi’ites vs. I forget who the other ones are, it’s too boring to pay much attention.
WARS were not started or caused by religion , religion became one of its victims .
Missionary work is a tough one still goes on today and in general they are there to and do help.
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Public Sector v Private Sector
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ANDREW FINCH – love your reply – you might have well said “religion, always part of the problem, never part of the solution”
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Until I get further proof I would not be so bold as to denounce the bible as being a fairy tale.
So many things are still unknown that the fact people are willing to poke fun at the bible and religion and God indicates that they are the ones who are fools.
In a little over 50 years life on this planet (advances in technology) has increased 200fold, more than any point of human life on this planet.
If a God did exist he would appear as magic or a fairy tale to our undeveloped minds.
In another 200 years when human life is not still in the infant stages perhaps a more reasoned discussion can be had on belief in religion/God etc rather than the infantile and unfunny comments posted on the Shropshire Star website.
I finish be stating that just because you cannot see something or believe in something does not mean it does not exist.
For example, Can you see the Wind? Answer, No. But you can see the effect it has on objects.
Can people see the truth behind God and Religion? Nope but you can see the effect it has on people.
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Spot on.
The Bible is nothing like a Fairy Tale.
There are universally understood moral guidelines swiftly made that have stood the test of time and no filler.
In one of them anyway.
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And until I get further proof I would not be so bold (or arrogant) to create a god out of thin air nor encourage unbelievers that this mythical creation and his dictates are the only way to live your life or risk spending eternity in paying for your mistake. You are correct when you say that just because you cannot see something doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist, however you may be able to prove its existence by scientific, empirical testing and until you can explain it this way it remains unexplained. By simply making things up to explain what is, at first, unexplainable you only succeed in living under misconceptions and untruths and that does not get us anywhere.
It simply distils down to Logic verses wishful, superstitious thinking and people choose whichever suits their thinking most.
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I don’t mind the bible being used in children’s religious studies classes along with the Koran, the Jedi Code and all the other religious texts. They all have as much truth in them as each other after all.
I disagree entirely that they should be used as a factual basis for any persons education.
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Dear J Mills,
I wondered if you would explain how Adam and Eve had grandchildren without committing incest? I sure there will be a rational explanation.
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What is Christianity?
Christianity is the belief that a cosmic Jewish zombie who was his own father, can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and drink his blood, while telepathically telling him that you accept him as your master so that he can remove an evil force from your soul which is present in all humanity, because a woman, made out of one rib bone and a pile of earth, was conned into eating fruit from a magical tree by a talking snake.
Hmmmmmmmmm. Makes perfect sense to me.
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When you mention that the Earth is 97 million miles (~93 actually) from the sun, did you get that figure from your bible?
does it mention oxygen?
does it mention cells?
I think those discoveries were the result of many years work by scientists.
The scientific method is to form a theory to explain observations, then to make new observations or experiments to support or disprove that theory. A scientist rarely claims to be certain of anything, only about best fit of theory to evidence.
As Stephen Fry pointed out, the only people who claim certainty, are those promoting religion.
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@ R Suppards, good list – I take it Sunnis are the other group. There are also Sufi Muslims who I gather incorporate aspects of Hinduism into their brand of Islam – and thus are persecuted by fanatics of the other brands.
On the other hand, there’s an argument that, with the possible exception of Shi’ites and Sunnis, those conflicts are as much about ethnicity or nationality as they are about religion.
As for schools, I would have Christianity taught dispassionately and along with other religions as part of RE or philosophy (as I believe it is now) and kept very firmly out of science teaching.
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From the letter.
“they are all atheists who try to deny the existence of a creator God”
Can you or anyone else prove other wise that God exists or indeed a creator.
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Could I just ask how many of you who are currently decrying Christianity and religion are planning on celebrating Christmas?
If so why ?
I would agree that religion should be kept out of science, it is a belief, a faith. I believe that God sent his Son to earth in order to show us how we should try to live. He gave us a framework of rules that we should try to follow. If in the end I am proved wrong then I have lost nothing, but I will have gained immense comfort from this faith.
If children are taught about Religion at an early age then it gives them this framework of rules to try and follow and the option as to whether to believe, as they grow older they may then decide they do not believe, they will have lost nothing in the teaching but they gain a faith that will give them comfort in a harsh world.
If they are not taught then they cannot decide as knowledge is required to make an informed choice.
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Without sharing your faith Lizzie, I agree with your main point. Children should be taught about religion, yes, but dispassionately, not dogmatically.
The problem I have (and clearly I’m not alone) with J Mills’ letter is the way it ridicules science as ‘unscientific’ while presenting the Christian version of the world’s origins as unblemished truth.
Personal faith is another matter. Some of my loved ones have had it, even through suffering. I’ve never shared it but I can’t possibly disrespect it.
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Lizzie,
Firstly, I think it’s somewhat arrogant to suggest that our ‘rules’ and morality are somehow set by religious beliefes. I don’t doubt that your moral code and mine might be pretty similar – but mine is driven by a human desire to treat my fellow human beings in such a way that makes it easier for us all to get along – I don’t feel the need for a ‘spirit in the sky’ for which there is no proof at all to provide me with a moral compass.
I’m perfectly happy for my children to learn about religion – after all, they will encounter people of all faiths and none throughout their lives, and ignorance is the sure-fire route to prejudice.
But there’s a difference between teaching children that some believe their moral beliefs to come from a deity or deities, and telling them, as you suggest, that the framework of rules is somehow ‘owned’ by religion. The former is education, the latter borders on indoctrination.
I’m sure the vast majority of schools, with the possible exception ironically of some other ‘faith’ schools, already have a copy of the Bible – after all, they all provide religious education teaching. But by way of balance, should we not also insist that texts presenting an alternative view, and based upon scientific study, including Richard Dawkins’ ‘The God Delusion’ are also supplied to every school?
That way, we could properly educate children, and, when they have the maturity to do so, they could make up their own minds about whether or not to believe in a particular deity or not.
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There is nothing arrogant about it. I wasn’t saying that you have to be a Christian to have a moral outlook on life purely that the rules and morality that are laid down in the Bible are historically what the majority of the laws in this country are based upon.
Whether you believe or don’t believe in God, this is a fact.
The vast majority of our ancestors did believe, and possibly the decline in belief over the last 100 years is directly linked to the increase in the me, me, me society that we now appear to be living in. If you believe in an after life and Gods teachings, then you aware that this life is but a step on the way to a better one.
If you believe that this life is the only one you get then why not be selfish, after all you only get one go at it!
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The morals that this country is supposed to have can be found pretty much in Aesop’s fables.
I don’t need to add a timeline hopefully.
Knowing how to behave is kids stuff.
Carrying it out in adult life…well its a different matter.
For a fable on *that*; read David Foster Wallace’s ‘This is Water’.
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Lizzie. I used to celebrate at Christmas. I was celebrating having a couple of weeks off work and spending most of it in the pub with my mates. It was certainly nothing to do your imaginary friend in the sky.
When the kids were younger we always made sure they had presents, but again, it was nothing to do with religion.
I think people spoil Christmas by trying to drag religion into it.
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There’s a reason why it’s CHRISTmas …. celebrating CHRIST’s day
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Exactly where in the Bible does it say that Christs day is 25th of December? Could it be a convenient time of year corresponding with a very old winter festival that early christians adopted to try and make their new cult more appealing to the pagans of old?????
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i just do it for the pressies
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I think a lot of people have fallen for the devil’s advocate here?
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Thank goodness for people like J Mills.
Your letter really cheered me up, haven’t laughed so much in ages, by the way April the 1st is just under 4 months away, you’re a bit early but thank you for the giggle anyway.
Shropshire Star this is a spoof letter right ?
You wouldn’t seriously publish something like this, would you ?
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Has the Shropshire Star ever *not* published letters like these ?
And why not, they make people laugh and the more people who read them, the better the advertising revenue.
Have a go yourself – favourite topics are The Royals, Doctor Who, Religion & UFOs.
If you combine the above you may just hit the motherlode.
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It is very interesting how the agnostic or non believers fall in to the group of those standing on the other side of the road pointing fingers and ridiculing another why? whats the point?.
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Nothing to do with Gove’s ‘free schools’, many of which will be run by faith organisations, then?
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Nothing gets past Arther i see.
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Ssshh Arthur, we’re having a ridiculous argument up above and you’re only going and dragging reality into it !!
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…and what evidence have you got to prove that it’s a ridiculous argument?….
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I should have thought that my involvement would be evidence enough for anyone.
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I am still awaiting someone to provide even 1% of a god/creator proof of existance, think i am in for a long wait.
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You prove otherwise.
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Normally, when someone asserts something as fact, the burden of proof falls upon them. For some reason, religion feels this simple tenet need not apply.
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I suspect that Mr & Mrs Another would have a say in that?
An entire planetsworth of people from one pair? Are you serious? How can anyone not laugh at such a totally unbelievable and ridiculous idea? And all this without interbreeding, incest etc.
I’ve seen a fair bit of misery in the world but never a shred of proof that any flavour of deity exists. Yes, yes, in the Middle Ages the fascist religious types held uneducated peasants firmly in their grip (“Do it our way or if God doesn’t burn you, we will”) but nowadays Science blows Religion into dust.
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I am not the one proclaiming there to be one nor infact the bible as fact and from God, i would love someone to prove to me it was all true.
I was “brought” up a christian and attended church as a youngster but
I have prayed when loved ones have gotten gravely ill, i have prayed when times are hard and i hit rock bottom, i have prayed for all manner of things to safety of troops abroad, Guess what, my loved ones died a painful drawn out early death, times remained hard and still are, troops are still brought back in bodybags, but i guess yours and others answer to this will be god works in mysterious ways, or its all in his great plan
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And God created foxes for AF to chase and destroy for blood lust. Amen
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Oh behave yourself
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I have yet to meet a councillor who had what I would call true honesty and integrity,yet
I see that prayers are still spoken at the beginning of council meetings.
Nuff said!
There again religion is basically about power and elitism in what ever form or style it is presented to us.
There are a lot of interesting comments here and it is nice to see those who do not hide behind a facade of righteousnesss stating what is not said often enough, we all know the difference between right and wrong. (unless we have pychopathic personalities which is fortunately rare)
One person is unlikely in reality to be better than another as we all have weaknessess and strengths.
If religion can be a comfort regarding the fragility of life which we find hard to accept then it seem innocuous enough but it seems to end up something else in our often unacknowledeged primative urge to survive.
Andrew mentions the support of religion when losing a person, what about it’s supposed role when dealing with being told to or having to kill someone in a war situation?
The bible is an interesting book but to see it as more than just a story with a purpose to control people is to abdicate responsibity for our own ability to be good (not perfect just nice) people in my view.
I also think people are more concerned with how they might depart this world than the chances of anything further existing.
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I worked with a guy for a year he was a very level headed chap and very intelligent head always in a book .
His opinion was god could not be proven or dis proven , he use to think many parts of the bible could be taken today and rules lived by would make a better society , some things could or should be removed as they were wrong in a modern society. However he was not religious but always said he was agnostic.
I went in to conversation with him many times on the subject and was amazed how he saw certain events in the bible and our creation , The creation of man The missing linq in his view was possibly rather simple we were not here from the start, we came here?,he believed Jesus was could possibly have been an alien.
Going on to aztec people , stone circles, and many other things, he saw as all had something to do with or met another life form.
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You can be as intelligent as you like, doesn’t stop a person maybe being a little crazy!
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Many things possible
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Today’s the day that particle physicists took another step towards proving the existence of the Higgs boson… but they stopped short of hailing it as a discovery because they do not yet have PROOF. There’s plenty of circumstantial evidence, but faith in that alone does not prove the elusive HB’s existence.
Just saying…
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In my expereince, most non-believers (and I am one) have no problem at all with the fact that there are those to whom their faith is a great comfort. While not sharing that faith, they respect the right of others to believe. If only those who do believe had such a live-and-let-live attitude. It’s the constant banging on about how the Bible is the one true word of God which is soooooooo grating.
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I don’t even mind the constant banging on; as an adult I can deal with that. However, I get concerned when it’s pushed on impressionable children without parents’ consent. There seems to be a prevalent attitude of “opt out” rather than “opt in”.
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Most Christians do not as you say bang on about, but you get the odd over zealous type who do.
As for live and let live possibly why we have the problem we do such as single baby breeders ,high levels of std victims, high level of alcohol patients taking up beds in our hospitals and so on and so on.
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The believers – believe
The others = don’t
Who really gives a damm
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Shrewsbury – one of the few places in the land where evolution doesn’t apply.
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I hear someone is looking for me??
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We are. Would you mind providing three more Sigmas so we can all call it a day and go for a well deserved pint, please?
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I’ve posted a lot of Sigmas today but I suspect they’ve missed the Last Christmas Posting Date for your guys down there in Swaziland, sorry Switzerland. Mind you the way things are going, I can post you one tomorrow and it should arrive yesterday.
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Still no one has any proof to put forward?
Not one person has put any forward but are will to bang on about the Bible as the true word of “god” rather than man.
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And no-one has put any proof forward that he doesn’t!
Those of you who don’t believe seem to think that proof matters. Actually the lack of “proof” is why religion is called a faith.
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Now I know why people use the expression “Jesus H Christ”. It’s because within the Lord’s prayer it states “Harold be thy name”.
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this is a shockingly bad idea from a terribly right wing government trying to win votes from nutters in the bible belt
poor children should not be subjected to this indoctrination like this its just morally wrong
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So how do you wish to stop religion? muslim, JW,quackers, C OF E h, catholics , all these religions are practiced at home and is a way of life for many 24 hours 52 weeks of the year , if you had your way you would ban the teaching of religion to children by school and by parent ??
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