Biggest strike for 30 years as millions walk out
Wednesday 30th November 2011, 11:00AM GMT.
Millions of public sector workers walked out today as Britain was hit by its biggest strike since the Winter of Discontent more than 30 years ago.
Teachers, council workers, NHS staff and civil servants walked out in protest over government changes to their pensions which they say will force them to retire later and pay more.
In Shropshire, thousands of families were plunged into chaos as more than 160 county schools closed, forcing parents to make alternative arrangements for childcare or take the day off work.
Non-emergency appointments were cancelled at the Princess Royal and Royal Shrewsbury hospitals.
Unions said early indications were that the walkout was being solidly supported. An estimated 1,000 Shropshire Council staff had joined the action, the authority said. Telford & Wrekin Council said it was too early to say how many workers were on strike.
But George Osborne urged unions to resume negotiations as he dismissed today’s 24-hour strike by millions of public sector workers as ‘futile’.
The Chancellor said the walkout would not ‘achieve or change’ anything.
The industrial action could cost the economy an estimated £500 million, the Government has said, with Mr Osborne claiming the action was not going to solve anything, but would ‘damage the economy’ and cause job losses.
“It is only going to make our economy weaker and potentially cost jobs,” he said.
“So let’s get back round the negotiating table, let’s get a pension deal that is fair to the public sector, that gives decent pensions for many, many decades to come but which this county can also afford and our taxpayers can afford.
Two big rallies were due to take place at lunchtime in Shrewsbury and Telford.
Brett Davis, president of Shropshire and Telford Trades Council, which is affiliated with dozens of unions, said he had never known such anger over pension reforms.
“They have come for all of us at once,” he said. “It’s nothing to do with sustainable pensions, it’s a tax on public sector workers.”
Unison, the public service trade union, appealed for pickets to stand outside the largest council buildings in Telford from 7.30am until 10am.
Members were also due to hand out leaflets in the town centre’s Southwater Square before moving to Cordingley Hall, Donnington, for a rally from 11.30am to 12.30pm.
In Shrewsbury, hundreds of people are expected to gather for a rally in the Square from 12.30pm until 1.30pm.
In Oswestry, Shropshire Council’s Castle View offices were closed although there was no picket line.
A note placed on the front door said the building would reopen tomorrow.
Oswestry Library was also closed. The Marches School in Oswestry was closed to students although many staff were working. Pickets were at the school this morning.
Headteacher Sarah Longville said: “Staff not participating in the industrial action are working in school; however teachers are normally instructed by their own unions not to undertake the duties normally carried out by their striking colleagues – which would include covering teaching and covering supervision at breaks and lunchtime. I have therefore reluctantly taken the decision to close the school to students on health and safety grounds.”
Shropshire Council said a total of 102 schools were closed, with a further 11 partially open.
In Telford and Wrekin, 59 schools were closed, with three partially open.
In Powys, 59 primary schools out of 99 were closed. Seven primary schools were partially open and 33 were open.
Twelve of the 13 high schools in Powys were closed and the other was open to sixth formers only.
Picket lines have been set up at hospitals across Powys, including Welshpool Memorial Hospital and Newtown Hospital.
Tim Wheeler, communications officer for Powys Teaching Health Board, said services had not been affected.
A march was due to take place through Llandrindod Wells at 11am. Marchers were assembling at Theatr Powys for a midday rally at the Pavilion, Spa Road.
John Allison, regional spokesman for the NASUWT teachers union, which has about 1,500 members in Shropshire, said strikes were ‘a last resort’.
“The Government is continually refusing to negotiate,” he said.
More than 50 workers manned the picket lines at the Telford & Wrekin Council offices.
Charlie Tranter, GMB shop steward, who has worked the council since 1974, said: “I am here because we do not have a dispute with our employers, we have a dispute with central government because they are attacking the pension provision not just of the people here now but the people of the future.
“It is hard to attract people into the public sector and one of the inducements as that there was reasonable not “gold plated” pension provision and that is now under attack.”
Jonathan Sedgebeer, branch secretary for Unison, which has 2,000 members in the council workforce, said: “Yesterday the Chancellor changed aspiration into dissolution and hope into fear.”
Council worker Sonia James said: “We have a lot more people out on strike than we have ever had people feel so passionate about this because it affects so many of us”.
Telford & Wrekin Council’s Interim chief executive Richard Partington said: “The impact of this national strike so far seems much as we had expected and planned for, underlining the good co-operation and understanding between the council and the unions, particularly in prioritising service provision for our most vulnerable customers.”
Telford & Wrekin Council leader Kuldip Sahota said: “It is testament to our co-operative way of working that the Council and the unions have worked so closely throughout this dispute to ensure that services for the most vulnerable have continued.
“We fully respect workers’ right to take legal industrial action where they feel strongly and those participating today have made their case clearly and with dignity.”
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I’ve had to take a day off work to look after my child – means I’ll have to catch up at the weekend. I can’t afford to pay into a pension because the council tax, income tax etc are so high. Where do the strikers suggest the money comes from to increase their already generous pensions? Oh yes, thats right – just take more from the hard working ordinary people who didn’t leap on the public sector gravy train. You’re all nuts!
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This is ill informed nonsense.
If you had bothered to try and understand the issues you would realise are not asking for more money for our pensions, just what had been agreed in the last pension reforms in 2007.
Oh and by the way public sector workers are also ordinary working people who pay their taxes.
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This is even more nonsense! Please try to understand – THERE IS NO MORE MONEY!
What was agreed in the 2007 reform was simply too high, it has to be downgraded in line with the current economy.
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Here Here
Wake up and smell the coffee, it aint 2007 anymore, the world is a different place and everyone has to understand this
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For the second time we dont want MORE MONEY just what is contained in our contract of employment.
Hope this is now CLEAR.
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For the second time…
The country cant afford whatever your labourite mates signed upto in 2007. Labour agreed to this in 2007, labour aint in power now are they cos they cocked it all up for the rest of us. Times change, economies change but its clear that some peoples perspectives dont.
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I’m afraid you’re wrong.
If you had bothered to research your facts you would looked at Lord Huttons report on pensions and realised that the cost of public sector pensions is falling from 1.9% of GDP to 1.4% over the next 10 years. So it us affordable.
Don’t suppose you want to hear this though do you? Doesn’t really fit in with your Daily Mail mentality does it?
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It said on the BBC news this morning that over the last year, the pay of the top 1% of earners went up by 30%.
So there is money floating about somewhere. Funny how while us ordinary working people are finding it harder and harder to pay our bills and pension contributions, the rich get richer.
This is the problem that we face. We should be sticking together instead of slamming the public sector. Nurses should be paid properly and should get a reasonable pension when they retire and so should people who work in Macdonalds serving burgers or behind the counter in a bank.
And similarly it is not acceptable in these times of financial hardship for the top brass in the public or private sector to walk off with bigger and bigger pay cheques and fatter and fatter pensions.
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I agree with all that. It was the bankers who got us into this mess not the nurses, doctors, teachers, lecturers, cleaners etc.
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I think Chris is being a bit pedantic, the point is the pot of money has shrunk – the strikers are therefore asking for a bigger share of what is left. Anyway, why is he on this forum when he should be out striking? Or is he posting from his shiny new free iPad?
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It’s not public sector workers who should be paying for this crisis.
It’s the tax dodgers, bankers, millionaires ie those who can afford it. End of.
And no, I’m not a public sector worker, but I’m with them all the way. They work for US. We should treat them with respect.
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I have had to pay to put my son into child care too. so its the ‘public’ that are paying for all of this hypocracy! I thought the public sector were there to be a service to the public. but no…. your running up a big bill…. and we’re footing it!! so thanks for your public service.
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No KC, they aren’t nuts, they are just standing up for their rights. They have paid into their pension funds for years – and now the government wants to reduce them. If your employer tried to suddenly change your terms and conditions, would you just stand back and let them? As for paying council tax, income tax, etc, guess what? People in the public sector have to pay them too, and the majority are on wages which are nowhere near the national average either. The Public Sector are being made scapegoats for the mess the bankers have got us into.
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the striker are not suggesting that more money is paid in to their pension scheme, they just want what their contracts say that they should get. Anyway, any extra money paid by the workers will not go to the pension scheme, it will go directly to paying off the national debt, a problem caused by the banker who, because it is in their contract, will still get massive bonuses. The NAO has, on at least two seperate occasions, stated that the public sector pension is sustainable at it stands. The calculator posted on the Civil Service website was speedily removed as it proved that the government have been lying when they said that the poorer paid Civil Servants would be better off by providing an accurate prediction of how much they would get. Oh, and don’t forget that Public Sector workers get a lower wage because of the pension scheme and they pay taxes too – this means that they are paying twice into their pension schemes. Oh and finally, guess which public sector “workers” will not have their pensions changed because they are deemed to be a special case??? That’s right, you got it…… the politicians themselves!!!!!! what a surprise
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I paid more than £240 a month (or before that approx 9 percent of my net salary)as a lecturer. By the way schools are not a childcare facility.
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Get back to work!
There is no more money to give you, public sector workers need to understand and realise that they took the job, they took the risk, they understood that pensions may or increase or decrease. It comes as part of the package. If you don’t like it then don’t do the job.
There are lots of people who are capable of doing your jobs that don’t have one currently.
So striking is just wasting everyones time.
The public are not on your side….
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There may be lots of people ‘capable’ as you put it but they wouldn’t want to because they get more on benefits!
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Maybe, but I have to say that all this striking really is not going to achieve anything. There simply is no more money and the unions have been told. Striking does not have the same affect as it did in the 70′s because times have changed.
People who work in the public sector get paid very well as it is so moaning about pensions is just like spitting your dummy out because you can’t have what you want.
It’s like saying that someone on JSA is not happy that he only gets £68 per week so decides to protest becaus ehe thinks by doing that it will change things and he will get more…
But it doesn’t does it.
This is life i’m afraid, and to be fair because of the strikes it’s cost this country over £500 million and it’s the tax payer and the strikers who have to foot this cost. The unions didnt think about that before they decided to strike did they? No…..exactly.
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I am a civil servant, I work hard, and I love my job. We DO actually pay into our pension schemes, they aren’t “freebies” and why shouldn’t we kick up when it’s suddenly decided that they will be changed, without a by your leave? A lot of the people who are without jobs are actually ex civil servants, because we have been cut back in numbers, only no one chooses to remember that. They think that we are in well paid, cushy jobs for life. Well, we aren’t, we’ve had to face cuts like everyone else, and there are going to be more. Cutting back our pensions is just the latest in a long list of cuts, that we have had to take on the chin, and it’s about time that we stood up to the government.
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And your point is exactly?
No offense but we all wish we got paid more and had amazing pensions but life doesn’t always work that way.
If you work in the public sector then this type of thing was always a risk. Same for the private sector with redundancy etc.
The fact that you strike is pointless and it’s because of the unions that you are doing it. The unions are the ones ruining this country and it’s people like me that work hard for a living who have to ultimately fork out and pay for the loss of over £500 million pounds that you and the rest of the strikers cost this country.
In Shrewsbury square there was approx 300 strikers….thats all.
The public don’t give you any sympathy because we are not interested in your pension problems or moans and growns.
Fact is there is no more money, end of. Like it or lump it things are not going to change. Get on with life, get back to work and stop moaning and we can all live happily ever after.
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Fed up, In the Civil Service you DO NOT pay for your pension it is a NON-CONTRIBUTION PENSION scheme.
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How come I paid (before I recently became a Government cutback)£200 per month into my pension scheme if we don’t pay for it ourselves?
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John,
It has always been the case that Civil Service salaries were calculated at a rate that assumed an amount to pay for pension. That’s why for most of the decades worked by those who are losing out civil service pay was much lower than equivalent pay in the private sector.
Back in the 80s, when I was in the Civil Service, at a time of high double-digit inflation, whe we never received a pay increase of ore than low single digit percentages, we were told every year by our employer that the reason for this was to cover the cost of pension contributions.
So civil servants do, and always have, paid for their pensions.
It’s also worth noting that in the case of many other public servants, where there are defined contributions, none of the proposed increased contributions will be going to pay directly for the related pensions.
Instead, they go into the general exchequer’s fund, and will doubtless be spent on more paying off of the huge debts run up by Osborne’s banker friends, to avoid them having to do so.
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Peter, My wife spent 30 years in the Civil Service before retiring, and in those years there was never a deduction made in her wages towards her pension. As for lower wages that is debatable.
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John,
It’s clear from your response that you didn’t read my post properly – the cost of Civil Service pensions was always taken into account before calculating gross salary – that’s why it never appeared on a pay slip – but successive employing governments always made this clear in annual pay negotiations.
Pay comparison records clearly show that for almost all of the last few decades, Civil Service pay was lower than that offered for similar roles in the private sector. In the eighties I can clearly recall that the government ended up having to pay additional allowances for accountancy skills and IT skills because they were losing staff hand over fist to the better-paid private sector.
Currently, records show that pay in the public sector is a little higher – but that’s only because private sector employers have taken full, cynical advantage of the recession to reduce the pay of employees, whilst boosting the pay of those at the top massively.
I’m pleased that you and your wife benefit from a public sector pension, but wonder why you exercise such a double standard when it comes to those currently working in the public sector?
Would you be happy if your wife’s pension was summarily cut? After all – according to you she didn’t pay for it!
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“I’m so angry I made this placard”
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“More than 50 workers manned the picket lines at the Telford & Wrekin Council offices”
Whatever happened to the limit of 6, you know as is set by the law?
One rule for them, another for those that fund their employment and lucrative pensions.
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Actually Jeff it’s guidance only. You’ll be pleased to hear that we were joined by many TWC councillors who support our action. Some managers even brought us a hot drink which was really nice. It’s their pensions too that we’re defending.
As for the lucrative pensions argument, as they say they’re ‘gold plated’ which says it all really. I’d rather have a solid gold one like a private sector senior executive. Incidentally their pay has increased by 15% on average over the last 12 months. Whilst the workers, and most of us are workers, is falling year on year.
The top 1% are bleeding the 99%. It’s time we all realised it and united against the inequality of our existing system.
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politically motivated?? come on wake up
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Gold plated is certainly a darned sight better than no pension. There are many people out here who are not provided with any type of pension except the state one and are not paid enough to invest in the future as an alternative. When you look at the contributions made by the government employee compared to the potential returns they really have fallen on their feet. So is really 3% such a big ask?
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No, it’s not the law. It’s a government Code of Practice which has never been tested in the courts.
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I don’t seem to be able to see any children in these pictures ( due to todays school closures ), oh yeah, they’ll all be in the taxpayer subsidised kids clubs like the one at the Land Registry in Telford.
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They are not after more money its their pensions which were promised, are being taken away. Fact !
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did the rest of us strike when our pensions dissappeared.Unless we act like France and we all stop, because of all the rubbish thrown at us (double enrgy bills, fuel, extortionate water bills etc), it will keep happening.
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Perhaps you should of questioned your firm as to the investment plan of your pension, or asked for projections on any payment holidays the board pushed through. Or were you too busy enjoying your company car, cash bonuses and other perks not available in the public sector?
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Perhaps i should have questioned the endowments for my mortgage, the saving bonds that have dissappeared, reps who should come round to the house to discuss how your investments for the future are going. Hind sight is a wonderful thing, I wish I had some of yours!!! Everybodys future investments have gone pear shaped in the last few years, why does the public sector think its so different
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For Darrel – my dad whose father went bakrupt in India taught me NEVER to trust anything to do with the stock exchange. I have a public sector pension but I wouldn’t be at all surprised (and I am young enough to not care)if it collapses.
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Well said Roger!!
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what sort of money do people think that cival servants earn, i can assure you its nowhere near the figures that has been banged around, likewise with the pension amounts
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Well said, Si. I keep hearing about gold plated pensions of £20k plus. Most of us don’t earn that much. We wish!
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Overwhelming public support?
not judging by the comments on here…
Get back to work!
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Its typical of the umions, while they get huge pension increases paid for by their members they bring their members out on strike. Nothing will be gained by this because the county just can’t afford the very generous pensions they already receive. As for the teachers, well they are just a disgrace, they can’t have what they demand so they just throw their toys out of the pram. What an example to those they are supposed to teach. There must be thousands of unemployed out there who would take the place of these strikers, sack the lot of them.
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Is this Tory Councillor Ian Fletcher I wonder?
If so you’d be better looking at the current Tory Government’s generous tax breaks given to the wealthiest people in the land.
Again, if it is councillor Ian Fletcher, I suggest people look at the generous ‘allowances’ taken by councillor and Cllr. Mrs Fletcher as published last year. They might also note that according to the same report Mr Fletcher is part of the council’s pension scheme. It baffles me why councillors are allowed to join a scheme that was supposed to be for employees.
And whether or not it is Cllr. Fletcher, can you explain why the additional contributions
being asked for are not to be ring-fenced into a fund to pay these alleged extra costs, and are instead simply going into the general taxation pot to pay off the Tory bankers’ debts for them? Isn’t that similar to what Maxwell did some years ago?
Can you also explain why despite repeated requests, the gov’t have refused to produce a financial statement of the current state of various public sector pension schemes?
In my private sector scheme, there’s a legal requirement to do so. Is the gov’t hiding something?
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What makes some people think that thepublic sector have ‘generous, gold plated pensions’ at the taxpayers expense? I, for one, have paid in for 26 years at a cost of around £200 a month in addition to my NI contributions. I am hoping to retire in the next few years and can expect a pension of around £9000 a year. I think it’s a bit late to be trying to move the goalposts. I quite agree that there is nothing wrong with changing the rules for new joiners to the scheme but a bit rich to change it after 26 years contributions. I can also appreciate that the retirement age will need to be increased for everyone as we are all living longer.
However, it seems to be a crazy system that excludes young people from work and pays them benefits to stay at home while we at the other end work on and take up jobs that could be available to them.
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You may be paying £200 a month now but 26yrs ago that was as much as I was paid gross, I sense you are only providing a snapshot,amateur statisticians, don’t you just luve’m ?
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Well said, I totally agree.
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I work 6 days a week, I get maximum 28 days holiday, I get paid £6.40 an hour. I cna’t afford to save for a pension. I have 2 children one of which is in a school that is closed today.
I have had to find an extra £27.00 to put him into childcare today.
I think it is ridiculous, My partner and I scrimp and save for everything. and can’t afford to take time off work. It makes me laugh that obviously the ever so hard done by public sector workers can afford a day off, spontaniously. 2 of my colleagues have had to take time off today to look after their children. meaning that they will have to make up the time on their days off or just lose out.
I pay my council tax, income tax, National insurance. Just like evryone else. Yet it us ‘non public sector workers’ (I do actually believe that Social Care should be classed as Public Sector) that are paying for the greed and selfishness of others.
Even if my employ was public sector….. would i strike…… NO. Because I have a duty to the PUBLIC!!!!
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The cost of daycare and loss of income is irrelevant.It is no-ones responsibility to support the cost of children except their Mothers and Fathers.
You chose to have two . Need I say more ???
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Well Allie, Sorry to hear times are bad but guess what – they are the same for the public sector workers too.
We used to get a few ‘perks’ here or there because generally we get paid less than private sector workers. So fine we understand that somethings have to change- the country is in a mess. I regulary work extra hours that I don’t even get paid for.
There are plenty of people on the same wage as you and I also have to scrimp and save. Infact I have put a freeze on all family Christmas presents this year as our bills continue to rise. So please don’t feel like we are rolling around in our piles of money but if you haven’t noticed some public sector workers have just taken a 2.7% paycut and are expected to take another one!
We are not asking for a bigger pension but currently the government is just taking everything from us.
Maybe you could all start taking your frustrations out on the banks who got us into this mess hey?
P.s Believe it or not we also pay council – a common myth that we get a discount is a JOKE.
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I am really quite gob smacked by your post – you get paid £6.40 an hour I am assuming on that wage you receive working tax credits, I know it’s an assumption, the tax that you pay and contribute to society has to be pretty minimal on such a low wage and you have TWO children.
Who do you think really supports your children? Answer people like me who get paid a lot more but have no children, the more I read posts like yours the more I resent paying my hard earned taxes to support you and your children. How dare you call others selfish and greedy for wanting to secure a future without fear – dont we all deserve a share of the wealth that this country has an ambundace of rather than a minority of the elite.
I’ve always sat to the left of centre believed in working hard and protecting those less fortunate than myself and have never minded supporting those who need it but I seem to be in an ever decreasing circle there is NO shortage of wealth in our country however there is a massive distribution issue.
After reading your post if I had a choice I’d remove my taxes from working tax credits children’s education maternity support and redistribute it all to the pensions of the hard working totally billeagered utterly undervalued demonised public sector workers who utterly have my backing. We could all have a much brighter future if we stopped fighting each other and stood together to fight for a fairer society it does however feel increasingly unlikely that we are capable of seeing the real picture.
I don’t work in the public sector I’m one of those people who has worked incredibly hard in the private sector with no real term increase for at least 5 years, but I do have a very good pension. Yes it’s true they do exist in the private sector, do i resent the public sector do I hell they and everyone else who is prepared to take a stance against the unfairness in our society have not just my backing but my admiration and Aliie perhaps if you treated people with a bit more understanding someone would have watched your kids for free. Next time you receive your child benefit tax credits free dental care education etc etc etc do think of me!
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Sammie. Best response by far on this issue. Hear hear
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Excellent response Sammie.
I find it really hard to understand the animosity shown to the public sector by people working in the private sector. Cameron et al must be laughing themselves silly when they see how much bile is poured onto the public sector workers, instead of directed towards themselves and their rich mates who are the real cause of the situation we’re all now in.
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Why do people who haven’t got a scooby doo about the reason why unions are striking for; actuall comment? some of the posts are just utterly thick it’s unbelievable.
People, a tip for you, research the reasons and then feel free to make a comment, until then please do us all a favour and shut up!!
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As most of the placards say ‘ save our pensions ‘ or ‘ hands off our pensions ‘ i thought it may have been about pensions. clearly i’m wrong so was wondering if you could enlighten me…oh great oracle of knowledge.
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I am not a public sector worker but I listen to the news and it says that it is about cuts to public services, cuts to public sector pensions and about the growing gap between rich and poor.
In a nutshell, it’s about this Government feathering the nests of its rich buddies while us at the other end pay for it……
Average wages have gone up by between 1 and 2% over the last year (not in the public sector, they haven’t had a pay rise) while the pay for the directors of the UK’s top businesses rose by 50%………why aren’t people up in arms about this?
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Different Andy to 9 but totally agree
get back to work – if you dont like the job leave and let someone who wants to work do it.
You signed up for for the job so stop moaning
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Agree Andy. If you can’t stand the heat get out of the kitchen!
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Employers must be falling over themselves to employ people like you; someone who presumably will accept any negative changes to their terms & conditions with the same enthusiasm with which you’d accept positive ones.
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The low paid and those who have paid in for over a decade have a point when it comes to moving the goal posts regards pensions and should be compensated in some way. However newbies and staff with under 10 years service times and goal posts do and have to be changed whether we like it or not and that must include pension age look at it as a positive sign if your lucky you live longer .
Perhaps the government should simply offer the public sector worker the option to opt out of and join a private sector pension or indeed not pay one at all ? give them the choice.
As for the strike in general yes if they wish to strike let them but if it goes on to long it will become tedious .
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We already have that option. The pension scheme is not mandatory. However, unlike many private sector pensions, the local govt scheme is well managed and independantly audited. The pension scheme does not take ridiculous fees as profits for the pension scheme. Rather than killing public sector pensions, why don’t the Government do a serious investigation into the fee levels of private pension firms as fee levels are often criminally high.
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I was unaware you were permitted to opt out.
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It was the basis of the pension misselling cases in the early 90′s. Private pension firms were going round public sector facilities trying to get staff to transfer out of their public service pension. The basis for this was that private pensions could provide a better return!
This was found to be unlawful and fraudulent as there was nothing wrong with the public service returns.
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The strikers at the Mod gate in Hortonwood only last 4 hours, gone by 12.30pm. Not exactly holding with the courage of your convictions is it?
And sticking your trade union flags into the decorated tree at the bottom of Donnington parade is not protesting, its defacing public property and entirely inappropriate. That tree symbolises a time of peace and goodwill, it is not in support of your bust up with the government.
George Osbourne got his own back yesterday, if unions continue to hold this country to ransom, public sector workers are going to pay for it in terms of jobs and frozen salaries. Hope you enjoy your pension that your colleague lost their job to pay for.
Keep striking, it’s you who will pay in the pocket in the long run, I support your cause but I despise your methods.
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You support our cause but despise our methods?!….so what’s with all the negative waves. So how is this message supporting the cause and how exactly would you like us to run the campaign Em?.
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They actually started trudging away from the MOD picket line at 9:10am, all gone by 9:15.
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Those who were working at Donnington this morning had to run the gauntlet through some disgraceful scenes this morning – the worst that I have ever seen in thirty years. Hope that the pickets are proud of themselves. I totally agree with the strike, and was considering rejoining a union, but after those scenes – no way. It was not peaceful picketing, it was disgusting behaviour. As for the guy who removed his shirt and was cavorting about half naked – I hope you catch your death of cold.
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As somebody else has said :
Just get back to work – if you dont like the job leave and let someone who wants to work do it.
There are plenty of people who are capable of doing your jobs that don’t have one currently and they would be ecstatic at the pension terms you are being offered, slightly increased contributions with 1/60 payback compared to the old 1/80th and everybody is going to have to work longer.
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Stop complaining and face the music like the rest of us. I am a teacher who values my students and my job and at this difficult time think the strikers are living on another planet.
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Oh yeah, try standing up in front of 300 adults and talking about tricky areas of law! That was my old public sector job.
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All these people complaining about having to look after their kids should have come to shrewsbury 99% of kids wandering the town with no parent in sight it should be renamed shrewsbury creche also no one can afford to lose money these days so to strike is hitting strikers in the pocket and don’t forget public sector workers pay tax and ni contributions too and private sector workers need to strike to improve their pensions but the word private sector will always mean profit before people.
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Well I’m out today,I’ve worked for 37 years in the public service and my golden pension will be £7000. I’m going to have to pat a lot more into my pension just to take this, that gravy train must have been canceled or did it only exist in you’re own imaginations.
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It’s still better than what some people are being paid to work full-time. Enjoy your rest.
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£7,000 a year for life GUARENTEED is a very good pension so stop moaning about it, i dont even have a pension, got that ZERO 7000 less than you and i pay your wages!
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The fact you haven’t got a pension is your fault. Don’t berate people that have taken the responsible option. No doubt you’ll be happy to scrounge off the state if you aren’t already.
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Lezlee,
The reason people think that the public sector employees have ‘generous, gold plated pensions’ at the taxpayers expense is because if you worked in the private sector, your £200pm over 30 years would provide you with a pension fund of circa £132,000 using an average annual growth rate. This would provide you with a pension of £4,455pa. Which means that the rest of us a funding £4545 of your pension every year increasing with inflation.
If you dont like it there are thousands out there who will be happy to take your place.
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Spot On – well put
These people need to shut up or ship out
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Judging from your threads you would be hard pressed to hold any job down let alone one that takes some intelligence.
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Here here!!
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This! x10
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I don’t work in the public sector. I’ve got two kids and have had to take the day off to look after them while their teachers are on strike and I support the teachers and the other public sector workers today. It seems to me that this strike is a demonstration against the priorities of a terrible government. It’s not true that there is no money in this country- there is still plenty for those at the top who are enjoying better salaries than ever before. There is money for them but, we are told, not for things like the education of our children or the care of our elderly and disabled, or for the honouring of contracts- the things that in a decent society should be valued and prioritized. This is about the choices made by those in power, not the financial crisis. Lots of people feel worried and angry at the moment and I do too, but this is not the fault of nurses, teachers, careworkers and the other public sector workers and they are not the ones who are profiting from the current situation like the bankers and the rest at the top are. Public sector wages are falling and their bills rising are like the rest of ours’. I wish the strikers all the best.
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One group of people seem to have been forgotten. Those of use who work in the public sector, crossed the picket lines and turned up for work today.
I might not agree with everything, but I understand that we cannot continue as we have done. Things have changed since 2007.
I just wish that everyone would stop treating all public workers the same.
Just think about those who have turned up to empty your bins today, answered your calls when you rang and, those who could, kept buildings and offices open to allow those workers to attend their workplace.
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Your efforts have not and hopefully will not go unrewarded if and when the next tranche of redundancies appear. If I were an employer you would be the top of my wishlist.
The last national administration had the Viv Nicholson Syndrome, spend, spend, spend, without anyone concerns because they would be off selling their memoirs to supplement their tasty pensions.
With power comes responsibility, at times of emergencies we need an administration that shows that with reponsibility comes power.
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Good point about having my bins emptied today. Yes, indeed, my recycling was collected by the PRIVATE company used by the council to perform this task.
Perhaps if more of the public sector was privatised, we wouldn’t have to suffer so much bleating from the so terribly hard-done by left wing anarchists who have been striking. I’d like the Government to start by privatising public sector pensions so that the pension schemes operate in the same way as in the private sector.
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Harold, do you know what anarchism as a political movement means?
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The answer is NO
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im sorry but i know a few public sector workers and you have it easy! even they think so. you have had it easy for years and just because your having to face cut backs like the rest of us you strike????
what has been your wage increase with inflation for the last 3 years compared to mine eh?
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We haven’t had a pay increase for over 3 years even with the rate of inflation.
Actually we just had a paycut. Get your facts right first please.
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This is a massive generalisation. I work in the public sector and have done the equivalent of 13.5 months worth of hours in the past year. That extra 1.5 months of work was unpaid off my own back and included many weekends and late nights. How was i rewarded? With a pay cut. People I know in the private sector say that would never happen in their company.
The problem with these changes is that the brightest talent, who have options, are going to leave and the public sector will be left with more deadwood. Perhaps you should consider that before being so quick to condemn.
I don’t buy the idea that plenty of other people can take their jobs. The question is can they actually do the job? Undoubtedly in some cases this will be so. But the average job seeker doesn’t have the skills or qualifications to do many of the technical public sector jobs. For example, You can’t have just anyone checking bridges are structurally sound.
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In my experience ( as a recently redundant careers Adviser) we encourage and support people to make a choice of job or career based upon their skills, interests, personal attributes etc. It is inevitable therefore that some types of jobs/careers will fall into the public sector arena and others into the private. They do not make a conscious decision to have a public or private sector career and therefore this governments constant attempts to turn everyone against public sector workers is cruel and unjust. So, stop criticising those who clean your streets, empty your bins, teach your children, nurse you back to health, care for your elderly relatives, protect children from harm etc, and be grateful that some people chose these often low paid careers and are public servants. If the cuts, pay freezes, pension increases etc continue, no one will choose these careers in the future and the citizens of this country will ultimately be the ones to suffer.
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Well said AJ.
If you all carry on moaning you’ll be sorting your own rubbish out. The county wouldn’t exisit without all these people.
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About 60 protestors gained entry into the offices of mining company Xstrata, a ‘leading light’ of the FTSE 100 and British industry to highlight the fact that CEO Mick Davies was the highest compensated CEO of all the FTSE 100 companies in the last year, when his companies had losses and the economy collapsed. He received £18,426,105 for his efforts.
Wonder if he will be ‘working’ till he’s 68?
Why why why are people bitching about the measly pensions of ordinary workers in the public sector????
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Because ‘we’ pay for them rather than the shareholders?
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Simon,
Are you really so naive to think that the general populace isn’t funding the obscenely high salaries of FTSE 100 directors, which outstrip inflation every year by a considerable margin – regardless of their comopanies’ performance?
Do you not understand that these people typically pay, via a number of tax loopholes, less than 10% of their income in tax?
Do you not understand that these wealthy people send much of their profits abroad and avoid paying tax that should be due to the UK exchequer, while we subsidise the minumum wage jobs they offer via top-up benefits?
Who do you think makes up for these large holes in tax revenue? We all do!
We do so via cuts to essential public services, via increases in taxes such as VAT, via changes to the tax regime to force more people into higher rate tax, and via the proposed cuts to the pensions of our hard-working and often low-paid public servants.
To those who complain that they don’t have a pension – why did you not seek a job with an associated pension scheme in the first place – or invest in your own individual pension scheme? Why do you hold those that did make a more sensible career choice responsible for your misfortune?
For those in the private sector who did have pension schemes but lost out due to their employers’ greed – why did you just stand by and let them do it to you? Where were your unions? Why did you not join one and protest? Why do you resent those who did make the effort to protest?
And above all, why do you imagine for a moment that making things worse for public sector workers will make it better for you?
Don’t forget that the additional contributions being asked for are not going into a ‘pension pot’of any sort for these employees in most cases – instead they’re going to the general taxation fund, out of which the government will continue to protect the rich over the poor.
You won’t see your taxes, local or national, cut. You won’t see this money invested in schools or hospitals, nor used to create jobs – instead the tax loopholes for the wealthy will remain protected and we’ll see the removal of the 50% tax rate which the Tories have been gagging to do.
Time for you to wake up to who is really emptying all of our pockets, regardless of where we work – and by the way, I don’t work in the public sector!
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Tony Bliar and his cronies increased the margin between Rich and poor, more than any other administration.
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I am posting this letter is to say how disgusted I was today with the way the picket lines at MOD Donnington conducted themselves.
They were abusive, rude and in a lot of cases totally out of order.
We have heard of people whose cars have been damaged but far worse was the scare tactics used to intimidate people to “persuade” them to join the cause and turn around and go home.
The mob attitude displayed today would be more suited to the terraces of a football match rather than a government workplace.
Women were verbally attacked with the childish boos and shouts of “scab” , whilst loud horns were being blasted at them and also the attempts of physical detaining vehicles trying to enter the works. This is illegal.
The union has the right to strike, it is the democratic rights that we have in this country of ours but on the other hand we also have that same democratic right to go to work.
I have heard of several people today saying that after today they will be withdrawing from their respective unions. Hope this is what the fat cat union leaders want.
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Interesting article the public sector should read and appreciate their good luck
http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/dominic-lawson/dominic-lawson-it-is-the-haves-going-on-strike-not-the-havenots-6269308.html?origin=internalSearch
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To those who wonder why folks left the picket lines early, this was to allow us time to get to the rally points in both Shrewsbury and Telford
Welldone to all those who attended the rallys and a big thankyou to those who organised them
It was a memorable day and we received a great deal of support from members of the public (young and old alike)
Trust me our pensions aren’t gold plated and if you read the complete proposals you would see why we are justified in our actions
I look forward to taking part in the next day of action, should the need arise..
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I work within the NHS, regularly working over 10 hour shifts, with a 20 minute break, if I’m lucky. I did not strike as I’m not part of a union, and as a healthcare worker I’m unable not to turn up to work.
I’d be better off being unemployed and on benefits. Then my benefits would rise in line with inflation by 5.2%, whereas currently my pay does not rise with inflation for another two years and after that will only rise by 1%.
So as the cost of living rises, and so does the level of benefits to fit in with inflation; however my wage does not.
I think people forget that public sector workers do a lot, work EXTREMELY hard, in difficult conditions for little or no thanks; and a wage that does not increase with yearly inflation.
As for the pension, the way this Government (which the public did not actually vote into power) is running the country like spoilt, poor little rich boys who have NO clue what it’s like to live in the real world. I will probably be having to work until I’m 75. There is NO such thing as a gold plated public sector pension anymore, and maybe people should do a little more research and realise how much the workers who they rely on, often to save their lives, actually do. A person responsible for people’s lives being paid less than a burger flipper manager???!!! What’s so gold plated about that?
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“I’d be better off being unemployed and on benefits. Then my benefits would rise in line with inflation by 5.2%, whereas currently my pay does not rise with inflation for another two years and after that will only rise by 1%.”
Has to be the most dumbest thing said on this forum.
Plus your career choice.Plus the press some hospitals have had recently is justified with regards service to the sick.
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I think you are being presumptuous and I’m sure many of the unemployed would much rather be working than striking like you.
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I think striker have forgotten that they rely on public sector workers to pay their wages. I am a teacher and would not strike firstly because of my duty to my students and secondly because I am making demands from my brothers and sisters in the community who are not responsible for this situation;
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Unless you are a teacher you will have no idea how hard we work. I have after school meetings nearly every day which I am not contracted to do. I do detentions and admin duties at lunchtime meaning I rarely have time to eat or go to the toilet. I am expected to do after school revision sessions at the drop of a hat. I work until AT LEAST 11pm EVERY night. I recently took children on a residential trip and not one parent said thank you when they picked up their children. You seem to think we are a childcare service. We are professionals with degrees who are treated like rubbish by children and parents alike. I recently entered the profession with a first class degree from a top univeristy but spend most of my time doing paperwork. I love teaching but if conditions do not improve I will have to leave as it is impossible to have a life outside of school.
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Hi stressed teacher. You are the only person to say that schools are not there to provide a childcare service. Yes. I hope things get better. My work load was much the same in my first year of university teaching but things improved when I had material already prepared which I only had to update. Best, Kat
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Clearly not happy, if a little over egged, perhaps it was the incorrect career choice for you .You have only just entered the professional ? then perhaps you should leave it for your well being and that of the school and children.
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I walked through the Square in Shrewsbury today and came across the ‘big rally’ being held there. Surprisingly, for the so called largest withdrawal of labour since 1926 it wasn’t really happening for them. It was, in essence a modest number of striking workers addressing other striking workers on a mutually pre-arranged subject.
I wonder how many of them actually believe that there is any real sympathy for their cause. I haven’t met anyone yet who openly admits to supporting these ‘brothers in arms’. Most people in my experience despise their selfish, entitlement based whining on a scale that would shame fair minded people into silence. The real bombshell in all this is that they believe anything is going to change!!!
We’re broke. Skint, Brassic. The outgoing Labour Treasury Secretary Liam Byrne confirmed this by leaving his Coalition successor a note saying ‘there’s no money left’. This spiteful buffoon said it all.
Why don’t striking public sector workers get it? Your own puppet Minister told you in May 2010. THERE’S NO MONEY LEFT. The country can’t afford to keep subsidising your jobs, your pensions, your generous sick pay arrangements and working practices, your productivity levels etc, etc….
Here’s an idea. Seeing as how you’re all so unhappy with your jobs and your employers; pack it in, get another job, go and work somewhere else. Try the private sector, see how you like it. See how generous non subsidised employers are. Check out the cut and thrust of business and see how it compares with where you are now. Until you do though, please stop telling us endlessly how unfair it all is.
Finally, whilst listening to the speakers in The Square today I couldn’t help notice the deliberate use of powerful and emotive hyperbole. Words like ‘struggle’ and ‘fight’ and ‘courage’ and ‘bravery’.
Would that be bravery in the sense of say ‘single-handedly storming a Taleban fortified machine gun nest’ or would it be ‘skiving off work on a Wednesday in Shrewsbury, waving a placard and blowing a whistle occasionally’? Possibly followed by some impromptu Christmas shopping. The season of goodwill? I think not.
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Oh Jack, Jack, you’ve put your foot right in it.
“Would that be bravery in the sense of say ‘single-handedly storming a Taleban fortified machine gun nest’ ”
Soldiers are public sector workers too – you are in danger of siding with the enemy…..
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Soldiers are not public sector workers. They are crown servants.
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Let the storm clouds clear and people calm down.
What is very clear teachers, and i am sure many others in the public sector see themselves as having a job for life, within the public sector area .
That area now needs to be modernized possibly some areas need to be stream lined possibly some areas privatized , deals and contracts need to be changed and it needs to be done very soon.
Some form of compensation needs to be given if needed. Many Public sector workers out yesterday possibly had under 10 years service, to imagine all will stay the same until retirement age is fantasy land .
Unfortunately many will not be happy about it but the majority when pushed will go forward and accept change , those who choose not to do this will be the casualties .
Having a job with the same employer possibly in excess of 12 years you do expect nothing to change and possibly do become a little stuck in ones ways, and become less flexible, some teachers and other Public sector workers can be accused of this “follow contract to the letter”. All business private or public require staff to within reason be flexible in these modern times.
In the private sector you can average a forced job change around every 10-12 years “not a bad thing for many individuals” so pay , conditions, pensions etc etc will all change like it or not, and will reflect the current climate .
Teachers union arguments that all good teachers will leave is rubbish, and a slur on teachers who accept change to pensions etc and a slur on new teachers coming in .No deal is set in stone .
The final argument that the private sector should be looking up and not bringing the public sector down is also rubbish . Many jobs within the public sector from IT workers to reception, clerical staff are over paid for what they do these wage bills should be brought down.
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The greedy, selfish and overbloated public sector needs to be squeezed as hard as possible.
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ANDREW FINCH, I do wish you would make your mind up with your opinions and what you stand for! you contradict yourself so many times!!
everyone are entitled to join a union and if the needs to strike is accepted then thats the end of it. The complete and utter drivel i read on this forum is shocking. Why some of you think that public sector employees are going to get £30,000+ pensions are beyond me, and by the way, members pay into it as well. That is the perk of the scheme, if you don’t have your own pension scheme or it’s not much good then you sort it out and not accept others to roll over and have theirs cut. Also, rather than attack the ‘normal’ working person, look at the politicians, bankers, utility services directors etc etc, look at their pensions and by all means attack them and not the person who are trying to defend their scheme for which they hope to get £6000 pa for giving 30 years loyal service.
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I have not contradicted myself.
Lets be honest about this many will not be working in the public sector when they come to the end of their working lives i think we can all point the the certain employees that will be .Prattling on about bankers and the like is pointless. change is coming and the current climate will allow for this.
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I’m a paramedic in the NHS, I and ALL my colleagues took part in action yesterday. We answered emergency calls for help from a protest line as we believed the general public should not suffer physical harm, and opinion and sympathy are important to us. Let’s go through some of the arguments.
1. This is public versus private sector, why should we have better pensions than the private sector? This is a classic divide and conquer strategy. To illustrate how ludicrous it is watch Monty Python’s Life of Brian, the part where Michael Palin declares that he ‘lies awake at night and dreams of being spat at in the face’ after Brian is thumped and spat on. Our posters declared a decent pension for ALL.
2. The pensions are lavish. Is between £9-10000 a year lavish when it follows 30+ years of working nights, weekends and bank holidays to look after people sometimes suffering life threatening injuries and illness? Some years ago private company pensions outperformed public sector ones. Companies were allowed to opt out and generally scrap them, which they did for all but the directors etc. The unions had been so weakened in the private sector that this happened with barely a whimper.
3. Everybody’s living longer. The average person is getting heavier, try carrying them when you’re past 60. The increased life expectancy was covered in the last pension review, life expectancy has risen in a predicted linear fashion for many years. You’re supposed to enjoy being retired, not simply exist until you die.
4. We can’t afford it. The current recession WILL end, when it does are our pensions going back up again? I don’t think so. In the next few weeks the city of London will yet again lavish themselves with bonuses, last years bonuses alone would have more than filled the pensions defecit that the government claims exists.
5. We all have to pay more. Hmm, how much more? Dave wants 3% of our wage NOT contributions, that works out at nearly £100 per month more. I already pay more than the average company scheme 6% compared to 5%. This is a by any other name a tax as the contributions will go to straight to the chancellor for him to throw to the bankers. How about taxing the top richest an extra 3% or closing a few of those loopholes, not just the ones that stop ordinary people saving a bit on DVDs.
6. Contracts aren’t set in stone. Great, will you come with me to my bank manager next week and tell him that I’m unilaterally going to reduce my mortgage payment as “Hey man, it’s not set in stone!!” It’s a contract.
7. Value of pensions can go up or down. HELLO, it’s called a final salary scheme for a reason.
8. If you don’t like it leave. See 6. We exchanged contracts. Would you like me to leave when you dial 999 saying I don’t like my job anymore I’m leaving?! I keep up my end of the bargain, you keep up yours!!
9. We’re all in this together. Sing it to the High School Musical tune often enough and you might convince yourself. The Fiscal Studies Institute has already declared that the biggest burden for the current economic mess is about to fall on the middle-to-low income earners in society, just where most public sector workers sit.
10. Public sector workers are better paid. Yes, after many years of falling behind the private sector we are now ahead slightly. However, the average public sector worker is now more qualified than the average private sector. To qualify to register as a paramedic now needs a 2 year degree, paid for by yourself. To remain on the register requires you to follow a set of standards which also cover your private life. Get struck off for being drunk and having a fight and you’re sacked. Could you enlighten me as to how many other jobs are like that?
11. Anyone can do your job. Really, next time you see your mate who watches Holby City ask him to tell you what the best treatment for an occlusion of a left anterior descending coronary artery causing a inferior myocardial infarction is. Does he approve of primary percutaneous coronary intervention or administration of a single bolus of a thrombolytic such as tenectoplase preceded by a bolus of heparin? Clocks ticking as if he takes to long the wrong decision is going to kill you!!
12. Finally, if you’ve managed to read this far thanks to being taught to read by a teacher. We don’t have public support. Yesterday only 2 people made negative comments as they went past. People brought us food, some brought wood to put in our brazier and others just showed their support.
This action was not about getting at the public, WE are also the public. It’s about getting people to look at what is really happening, to ignore the lies of the Daily Wail and The Sun. To decide whether we live in a fair society, or a society where everything including your life has a price, and if you’re not rich enough TOUGH!
No paramedic goes into this job to get rich. But we do expect to be treated fairly with respect. David Cameron is driven by an ideological hatred of the public sector. He could choose to get tough on the top earners of society, but they squeal that they need to be rewarded for what they do and if you want the best you have to pay. Doesn’t every worker deserve to be treated like this? This recession will end, and unless we stick together Dave and his mates will be sat on a huge pile of dosh laughing at all the poor ‘oiks’ fighting over the scraps.
FAIR PENSIONS AND HAPPY RETIREMENTS FOR ALL NOT JUST THE PRIVILIGED FEW!!
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Thank you for your comment and THANK YOU for your work.
I feel very saddened by this divisive argument ‘public v private’ sector.
A paramedic, a nurse, a firefighter, a soldier, a physiotherapist, a librarian, a teacher are, according to some ” not producing anything”. I wonder who these people call when sick, in distress, in danger.
Best wishes.
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Dear Shropshire Paramedic,
Firstly I would like to apologise for the public-sector haters on here. They are in the minority. There ARE actually a lot of people who support public sector workers, and your type of job especially.
You deserve decent pay and a decent pension. You work for us and deserve our respect. You did not cause this crisis and you shouldn’t be paying for it. Those who CAN afford it should. The tax dodgers, millionaires and bankers should pay their fair share.
Thank you for saving lives. You deserve a medal (or at least a decent pension…)
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You do not need to apologies for anyone, nobody “hates”public sector workers, rather over the top word its called people having “freedom of speech”, which is they do not agree with some of the views, conditions and requests that public sector workers have .
They the public sector worker are not doing people a favor doing the jobs they do they are actually paid to do it.
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@ Andrew Finch I’m all in favour of free speech but people spouting offensive rubbish should be ready to be called on it – here are just a few examples from this thread of comments that most certainly do need to be apologised for:
these workshy layabouts
Jeremy Clarkson should run the Unions… Or run this country.
At least he would sort these no hopers out
The greedy, selfish and overbloated public sector needs to be squeezed as hard as possible.
Most people in my experience despise their selfish, entitlement based whining
bleating from the so terribly hard-done by left wing anarchists who have been striking.
These people need to shut up or ship out
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Yes, you are right, I do get paid to do my job and I am not be ‘doing you a favor’. However, when I signed my contract the pension was part of the deal. I joined when the Conservatives were last in power, so they agreed my terms and conditions. Since then I have agreed changes to pensions, work condtions, etc. These have been done through negotiation and acceptance of a mutually agreed deal. In a nutshell, the current deal is ‘work longer, pay more, get less’, not a very attractive offer! Other people in society have defended their pay, bonuses, expense claims by saying ‘my contract said it was legal, so I did it!!’, why should I or any other worker be treated differently?
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Superb post Shropshire Medic and believe me, aside from the right-wing ‘frothers’ on here, your work is highly valued by everyone.
Clearly, there are some who are ideologically opposed to taxpayer-funded services and would prefer the inadequacies and additional expense of a US-style system. All I have to say to them is if you don’t like or appreciate public services, simply purchase your own healthcare and education, put out your own house fires, dispose of your own rubbish etc etc. As you will still (presumably) pay tax, you will be permitted to use our roads, benefit from our street cleaning and we’ll scrape you up if you have an accident.
Aside from these nutters, what concerns me more is those who have fallen for the media-promoted and entirely artificial con that, in some way, public and private sector workers have different interests and should be pitted against each other. It doesn’t take a genius to see that this is the age-old Tory diversion tactic of divide and rule perpetuated by their fellow millionaires who run the media.
For those who complain about ‘gold-plated’ pensions, just consider these two facts:
- Half of public persions are under £5,600 a year (ie £108 per week).
- An average director of a FTSE 100 company gets £174,960 a year (ie £3,365 per week).
Which one should you be concerned about? If you’re upset about your own situation don’t attack those slightly better off than you. Join them and fight back against the wealthy tax-avoiders and bankers who we all end up subsidising while our services are cut!
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Shropshire Medic
Whilst I am still of the opinion that your argument is fundamentally flawed, I must congratulate you on an excellent post.
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Hugo, can you explain how you think Shropshire Medic’s argument is flawed?
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Jack, a few points –
Liam Byrne’s ‘there is no money left’ was a bit of black humour. The note was left for his ‘friend’ David Laws of the Lib Dems, who the exploited it for political gain.
For some reason, although they dismiss everything Labour did in government, they seize on this and repeat it as gospel endlessly.
You claim the government ‘cannot afford’ public sector pensions. Yet the Hutton report – commissioned by the government itself – says otherwise. As do the National Audit Office.
Claims of unaffordability are not backed up by the independently available evidence.
You say ‘Try the private sector, see how you like it. See how generous non subsidised employers are.’
Non-subsidised? The private sector will benefit from £25 billion in tax cuts over the next parliament. The low wages of private sector companies – who pay their executives thousands – is subsidised by the taxpayer in the form of tax credits.
We all have to pay more in VAT to make up for the shortfall in corpoaration tax, which has been slashed by successive governments and will be slashed again during this parliament.
Then there’s the lax attitude to tax avoidance and evasion, with HMRC coming to ‘agreements’ with big corporations and letting them off bilions in tax.
Lastly, we now have people on JSA being forced to work for huge corporations like Tesco on pain of losing their benefits – this is the taxpayer subsidising the private sector’s labour costs.
Yes, these employers fail to properly look after their staff or pay their dues to the nation.
Should you not be condemning the practices of these companies and the governments that indulge them, rather than public sector workers fighting to have their contracts honoured?
You have a very strange way of looking at things.
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I voted against strike action, but interest in voting was very poor and most of those who voted “yes” were (from my perspective) politically motivated. Judging by my mum’s experience (she struggled to make ends meet with her occupational pension and state pension, whilst her neighbour who had never worked enjoyed a far higher standard of living on pension benefits) I think it’s arrogant to assume that any pension is safe from our politicians – whatever colour rosette they might wear. I also believe that there is very little support from the public who think public sector workers are rather lucky and selfish.
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“Judging by my mum’s experience (she struggled to make ends meet with her occupational pension and state pension, whilst her neighbour who had never worked enjoyed a far higher standard of living on pension benefits)”
Again a silly comment by someone who thinks people on benefits are better off , if they are join them i say.I don’t think i will.
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Jeremy Clarkson should run the Unions… Or run this country.
At least he would sort these no hopers out and tell them how it is.
Clarkson for PM!
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Erm, do you want a Prime Minister who really intends to make children witness their parents’ execution because he happens to disagree with them, or one who will say any ludicrous and hyperbolic nonsense that comes into his head in order to get attention thereby selling a few more books and DVDs? Despotic dictator or ridiculous egomaniac? I have to say that neither would be my choice.
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Erm, do you honestly think he “really”
intends to make children witness their parents’ execution? Are you really that vacuous and po-faced?
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Erm drone – read helen’s post again carefully, take your time, and all will become clear. Granted, she did use a few big words which you might not have come across before….I tell you what, I’ll spell it out for you…
What helen is saying is that if he meant it he’s an idiot and if he didn’t mean it he’s an idiot. Either way, she wouldn’t want him as prime minister.
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drone-
Of course I don’t think he means what he said- he’s a chump, and anyone who takes him seriously is a chump too. Although I’d be a bit more worried about those who take him seriously and agree with him than those who take him seriously but don’t.
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Scary you thought he was serious and not light hearted banter.
Unison said they were consulting lawyers ?? clerkson said sorry folks, unison said oh ok we accept it and will not take it any further,more like told by lawyers its called freedom of speech you big jesse.
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Andrew -
If you read what I wrote properly instead of just seeing what you want to see, you will understand that I, too, was using lighthearted banter to make a point. Ironic how easy it is for that to be misinterpreted. In case you are still confused, I will explain. I think that, while some people do take him seriously, Jeremy Clarkson clearly says and writes deliberately outrageous things in an entertaining way in order to make money. And, for me, that doesn’t really qualify him for any position of responsibility. Please can we now move on?
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It’s tempting to simply not dignify Clarkson with comment but, just as with the jolly japes of Jonathan Ross and Russell Brand, how what he said can be defined as ‘funny’ or ‘banter’ is simply beyond me.
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James,
No doubt someone will tell you that’s because you have no sense of humour- in contrast, I think it’s called ‘having a moral compass’.
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Helen,
I was very much in favour of the public sector strike – someone needs to stand up to this greedy government who seek to serve only the wealthiest.
But as for Clarkson, you need to have watched the whole interview to understand that the latter part of it was him self-mocking and exaggerating his own stance.
He’s a Tory, so he was never going to be in favour of unions or striking, but the latter part of his interview, which has been quoted so completely out of context, was simply him mimicking the sort of rabid ultra-Tory that he isn’t – it’s funny because it’s a self-caricature.
Those who have complained either didn’t watch the whole interview or have had a complete sense of humour failure.
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Roge, he’s the unthinking man for the ubthinking man. He would run you over in his Aston Martin or whatever. I don’t have one because I chose to work in the public sector despite alternatives but I can borrow one from a friend any time. Tehete.
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Roger, I think you are the stupid person I have ever come across. Perhaps I am missing something and you are rehearsing for stand up
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Isn’t that rather like saying Dame Edna Everidge should run the NHS?
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Interesting to see the front page of last nights paper showed the sam half dozen pprotesters at 2 different sites carrying the flags of 2 seperate unions having made odd attempts to alter their appearences.
Was this a concocted photo by the paper or indicative of the low turn out of protesters or do these people really feel so strongly. It struck me as strange jounalism
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You only need to have witnessed the Shrewsbury and Telford rallies to witness that there was plenty of interest on the day. You should have also driven past any public building to have seen the picket lines, including the Civic Offices, HMRC, DWP, the hospitals, the ambulance stations Need I go on?
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Interestingly, the director of the Institute of Fiscal Studies said yesterday on the BBC News at 6pm that public sector pensions were not unaffordable. Furthermore, that the disproportionate gap between the number of members of a pension scheme i.e. 87% in the public sector and only 12% in the private sector just goes to show how employment law has impacted on pensions in the private sector – hence the discontent shown by private sector employees and those who are self-employed complaining in the media that their provision is far worse off than the public sector. However, did you know that if you are in the private sector and you contribute nothing to your pension, you will get pension credits and benefits amounting to £4,000 per year on top of your state pension. This can be accessed on Tax Research UK dated the 30th November.
My take on it is please do not fall for all the soundbites and smokescreen from the likes of David Cameron, Francis Maude, Michael Gove and right-wing media (40% owned by Rupert Murdoch) and the outrageous, inappropriate remarks from Jeremy Clarkson. These people try to portray public sector workers as the villains of the piece when they are only defending their rights and others who deserve to be treated equally and not penalised for by those in the financial sector who caused this catastrophe in the first place.
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The behaviour of pickets at Donnington was despicable. One worker had his windscreen smashed(by a union conveynor) and several other cars were scratched.
Many of my colleagues were only absent from work due to childcare issues and most absentees actually booked leave in order not to lose a days pay.
Hopefully the extremist troublemaker will be prosecuted and sacked-then he won’t have to worry about a pension.
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strange that this mindless vandalism went under the radar of everyone but you john……it would have made a fantastic story for the press
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“politically motivated. ”
Something wrong with that?
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Bring back Thatcher and privatise all these jobs. Then these workshy layabouts will get a taste of life working in the real world aka the privte sector.
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Get your credit card ready for when you need an ambulance, then.
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Mrs Thatcher and co. is credited by some economists with laying some of the foundations of the economic mess we are in now. The shift from a manufacturing to a service economy means we are struggling to generate income to pay our debts. The deregulation of banks, that also continued under Gordon Brown, exposed them to the huge debts that we are all having to pay off. The 80′s mantra of “Greed is Good” has come home to roost, we’ve all got indigestion and feel very sick!! Mrs T is the last thing we need now.
And on another point, if you think I and my colleagues are workshy layabouts then you are more than welcome to visit us on New Years Eve when we’ll be working (sorry laying about). Choose your language more carefully in future!!
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Diffrent point.. Medics saved my two month saved my two month old step granddaugher rushed into A and E with meningitis this week (London)I taught on the medical ethics and MA degree at Keele for years. Yeah, health care professionals just laze and lark about!
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Sorry I can’t visit you New Years Eve, I will be working, very hard. Working Christmas eve, Christmas Day, Boxing day, NY Eve and NY Day.
That’s life in the private sector for you. Do you want to swap jobs?
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Doing what Lucy? Saving lives? Or just coining in the overtime?
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AC,a job is a job. Your endeavours are rewarded according to your skills and the market place – not the ‘heroism’ of the job. Get real. Honestly *tut*
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Lucy W, would you care to elaborate on your points?? explain the “real world” would be a good start.
how different is a teacher to a shop assistant? doesn’t everyone have commitments, deadlines to meet? so put your statement into some form of context, that is if you are able too.
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Teacher, degree educated, 2 years postgraduate qualification. Shop assistant, a couple of GCSE’s (if your lucky)and the ability to stare blankly into the middle distance whilst ignoring customers.
I think that comparison is valid
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I know alot of people with degrees working in fast food outlets! I also know people without degrees being very sucessful in their employment.
You may find your blank stareing shop assistant is a graduate who knows all about something or other, but nothing about life.
How shallow to think that an achedemic qualification makes you superior. Honestly *tut*
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Those who do REAL jobs (nurses, bin men, etc) have my full support.
However, all politically-correct parastitic ‘non jobs’such as Diversity officers’ should be scrapped.
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Here we go with the tired old chestnut about diversity officers, as if our councils are somehow overrun with such posts.
In the few cases where such posts exist, why are you so against having someone who helps, for example, to ensure that the council’s offerings are up to scratch in respect of disabled people?
Or is it perhaps, that you are so narrow-minded that you cannot bear the thought that someone who happens to have a slightly different skin colour might be getting a little help?
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Bemused said…
“how different is a teacher to a shop assistant?”
Wow , how much more bemused can you get. Let’s start the list rolling with…
Hours, pay, holiday, pension, rights,attitude,amount of and time of breaks, knowing what hours you will be working in a weeks time…are you still unsure of the differences?
Maybe lucy or someone else can add to the list to help you.
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Roadrunner, I would love to add a complete list but I note below that the Shropshire Star prefers short posts.
My real world is a competitive environment where if you are not as efficient as your competitor, you loose your job. If you demand too much pay, holidays, sick-pay, pension etc compare to your competitors, you loose your job.
If my employer is in a financial mess, I don’t make unrealistic demands. So when the state is in a mess, public sevants shouldn’t.
It tough, sometimes we choose to work for a naff employer, private or state. But the state employees seem to think that they can hold the country to ransom and make everyone pay for their inefficiencies.
That’s why I believe in privatisation – it sorts the wheat from the chaff.
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Would a world where, if you can’t spell as well as your competitor, you LOSE your job be a better place too?
Otherwise, you must have been on the government’s history rewrite team, Lucy
The roots of this crisis lie in the fact that governments of all shade(Labour being as guilty as any)signed up to capitalism in its most unregulated form and let the bankers and speculators do just what they wanted over a number of years – such as flog credit cards to single mothers in tower blocks, sell products disguised as ‘investment funds’ based on nothing more than mortgages on non-existent properties in faraway countries, and various other deceits.
When all this oh-so-efficient capitalism went belly-up (remember we were close to runs on UK banks), it had to be bailed out with OUR (ie taxpayer’s) money. That meant we all suddenly realised we didn’t have as much money as we thought we did, so we stopped spending, which in turn meant less economic growth, which always means the government has less tax revenue to collect.
But as has been pointed out above, the public sector is NOT holding the country to ransome, because the Hutton Report concludes that the pensions they signed up to and insist are honoured are still, in fact, affordable. If anyone is holding us to ransome, it’s the bankers, who not only expected the government to bail them out but also to be allowed to pay themselves huge bonuses and evade their obligations – as Peter points out even this is paid for with our money because when the rich aren’t paying their dues, the less rich, one way or the other, are making up the shortfall.
And with two silver spoon ex-public school boys ‘running’ the country, there’s no chance of the bankers’ demands not being met. In fact, with the help of the likes of you and others above, this government is engaged in a) a cynical attempt to divide and rule and b) a rewrite of history that rivals anything found in George Orwell.
But still, good luck with getting your private ambulance, police service, fire service, school etc etc sorted.
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Well James, I have a secretary to do my spelling so its not an issue for me. I am employed for other talents.
The roots of this problem is the all the experts and actuaries are saying that the pay, conditions and pensions of the public sector are far greater than the equivalent jobs in the private sector. It can’t go on and that’s the end of it.
Why does the public sector think the over worked and underpaid contributors to GDP are going to put up with this?
We are not fooled by the smoke screen made from blaming bankers.
Sorry if I haven’t responed to all your points – I didn’t read it as it went on a bit.
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‘The roots of this problem is the all the experts and actuaries are saying that the pay, conditions and pensions of the public sector are far greater than the equivalent jobs in the private sector. It can’t go on and that’s the end of it.’
Summed up in three words : Divide and Rule.
‘We are not fooled by the smoke screen made from blaming bankers.’
You mean you either can’t, or won’t, remember what caused the crisis in the first place but prefer to blame ordinary people.
Sorry for ‘going on’, though it does appear your side of this debate are rather giving up on actual argument now.
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James, you do not understand the credit crunch. The western world was borrowing from Asia etc. They withdrew their loans as they could get better returns in their own developing economies which were preferable investments. That is what caused the credit crunch – no more money from Asia to fund the West’s extravagance. The first things to default were the riskier loans, but they were not the cause of it.
And remember, it was the PUBLIC sector employees who were regulating the monetery system! So if you insist that is was bad finaciers causing the problem you must also insist it was bad PUBLIC sector employees regulating them!
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Like many others I don’t agree with this public/private divide that the papers are raking up.
But if you want to go down that route…. why should we give tax breaks on private pensions which incidentally cost the govt more than public pensions?
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Remember, not all public sector pensions are the same. One of the huge mistakes the government has made is to apply common proposals across all schemes. Here are the differences.
Civil Service, 3.5% contribution average. No contributions until 2007. New entrants on average salary scheme. No investment fund and pensions taken from treasury pot.
Teachers and NHS, higher contributions (6.5% average). Again no investment fund.
Police, no contributions, money taken from the Treasury.
Fire service, in Local government scheme but higher contributions (up to 14% of salary) based on early retirement age.
Local government, Contributions from staff between 5% and 7.5% of net salary. Paid into independantly administered investment fund. No money from the treasury in normal circumstances although Govt guarantee of pension value if fund deficient. Employers pay contribution to fund as deferred wages. Contributions based on regular (every 3 years) actuarial calculation.
Private sector employee contributions average 5%.
The huge mistake is applying the additional 3% ‘tax’ to local government schemes. Where the pension is funded direct from taxation, the additional 3% could be seen to be increased contributions however, as the local goverment scheme is funded by independant investment, the 3% is a pure tax.
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In short:
It is wakey wakey time. The world has changed and is a very different place to only a few years ago.
Whilst I understand it must be painful to see what you thought would be a secure job with prospects of a good pension at 60, you need to understand that like every other person in the UK you are going to have to face some agonies and make sacrifices.
This is going to be the reality in the UK for the next few years, whether you choose to accept it or prefer to cost the economy over £500 million a day by striking.
I can heartily recommend the former as choosing the latter is screwing everything up for both you and the rest of us.
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or you say sod it i wont make a pension and the taxpayer can pay for my retirement instead? sounds like a better idea for me, why work even if the government doesnt encourage working you are better off on benefits under the condems
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Putting aside the politics ……….
* The pension though subsidised still results in the employee making a significant contribution.
* The employee signs up to the agreement of how much they will take back when the time comes.
* In doing this they often make sacrifices, (surprisingly we public sector workers are not all highly paid).
* we then find that the ‘agreement’ is amended and alas never for the benefit of employee.
Though appreciating that there is not a bottomless govt purse. why is it considered unreasonable to protest. Imagine you pay for a high quality leather settee to find you are actually delivered a vinyl one, would you accept it.
Moreover one has to consider how much this is going to cost the govt in the long term – here we are employees paying to look after ourselves on retirement and thus not taking any benefits, if they continue I can see they are going to push many below the breadline and entitlement to benefits kicks in – who pays then?
Just a thought ……….
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good on them
they are fighting for ALL workers rights here this is in everyones interests long term
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Workers lose pay while they’re on strike, right? So presumably the union leaders volunteer to forego a portion of their six figure salaries as a gesture of solidarity and as a demonstration of the true meaning of “we’re all in it together”…
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