Teen beauty spot drinkers are ramblers, not rebels
- Dave Burrows
Letter: A need to reduce traffic density on our motorways
Friday 11th November 2011, 8:54AM GMT.
Whatever the causes of the M5 disaster there is a clear need to reduce the density of traffic on motorways and the tendency of vehicles to follow each other too closely on some occasions.
I have put proposals to successive transport minister, urging changes at junctions to encourage transfer there to public transport and to develop a ‘superbus’, connected to a trailer that loads transversely small cars, so allowing drivers door-to-door journeys with their own vehicles, in a relaxed manner .
After this recent, tragic pile-up it seems clear that the speed limit can only be increased, eg to 80mph, if cars allowed on the motorway are all equipped with radar sensors that at least warn when not enough distance between vehicles is maintained.
As I say I have tried repeatedly to get politicians to respond to my suggestions, but they don’t listen, so I think that it is time to see what the public thinks.
Richard Smythe
Newport
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You’re right about the density of vehicles on the motorway. It’s becoming dangerous and it needs to be reduced.
What’s the solution? Build more motorways? Add more lanes to existing motorways?
No. One short term solution is to remind drivers that there are TWO INSIDE LANES lanes on most motorways and to USE THEM when not overtaking! An instant 33% increase in motorway capacity for no cost.
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Yes, absolutely, get drivers to practice lane discipline. In the UK. it is dreadful. When police are on patrol, emphasis is given to speeding, not to obstruction by middle-lane hoggers. Police could play their part in reducing congestion.
Another method to reduce congestion and bunching would be for the Highways Agency to NOT close off 1 or 2 lanes of a motorway when a driver has broken down on the hard shoulder.
And then congestion could be reduced by raising the speed limit to 80 mph or more. Faster speed = less time on motorway. Less time on motorway = less congestion because cars occupy the motorway for a lesser amount of time.
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Agree with others, lane discipline should be adopted by all drivers. I get annoyed by middle-lane hoggers who cause unnecessary congestion.
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HERE! HERE! My car was written off recently on the M25 by someone driving to close to respond as the conditions ahead changed.
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Exactly! Totally agree Jake.
Also remind people that it is not there given right to just pull out from slip lanes and maybe if the some drivers indicated as they’re coming down the slip lane as opposed to when they hit the give way line people might let them out.
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Why on earth does someone entering from a slip road onto a motorway need to indicate? The only direction they CAN go is right, onto the carriageway!
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Read the highway code – that’l answer your question.
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I have a feeling you will be one of those drivers who wrongly assume that they have a God given right to cross the GIVE WAY markings on the slip road without giving a second thought to those on the inside lane and the speed which they may be travelling it.
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Nice idea Jake. Unfortunately, for 90% of the time you will find those 2 lanes occupied by trucks and coaches with a limited top speed of 56mph.
Things would be much better if ALL vehicles were allowed to do 70mph. This low speed limit for LGV’s only serves to create a 2 lane gridlock reducing motorways to single lane for light traffic.
RICHARD. No wonder nobody listens to you, your idea is totally impractical on several fronts. Think about it.
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I agree. I thought about going on to talk about HGVs, but decided it would dilute my main point and deleted a couple of paragraphs.
But now you mention it…!
There are far too many HGVs on the road. I understand that a significant proportion of them are transporting pre-packaged food from here to there, to somewhere else and back again. Reducing the ridiculous amount of fresh food freight would ease some of the burden on the motorways.
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Have to disagree, the driving etiquette and awareness displayed by lorry drivers is impressive. And after all motorways should surely be enabling the distribution of goods and services around the country ahead of personal business/leisure trips? I think the level of taxation levied on the respective vehicles justifies that to be the case, unless of course you want to pay your tolls/up your road tax?.
Driving standards amongst cars on motorways/dual carriageways is the first matter to address. Unfortunately the road seems to bring out modern selfish behaviours and the British queueing mentality at its worst. Replace policing of speeding per se and punish bad-driving (including excessive speed) instead.
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Wenlock Un, I mentioned nothing of driving standards, merely the large number of HGVs lugging food around. There’s too much of that going on and too many lorries as a direct result.
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Unfortunately a 40 tonner does not stop as quickly as a 1 or 2 ton car!!
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I like how the synopsis of this letter ‘Tailgating, not speed, the cause of motorway problems’ and the actual content has little to do with each other. Bravo.
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Thank you for amending the headline.
The Shropshire Star can’t be accused of not listening.
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*their
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The trouble with distance senors is you would be going backwards as so many drivers ignor distance(two chiverons) as the smallest gap they push in.
And your spot on Jake about drivers learning about the two inside lanes
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I feel like a record saying this but the problem is not risk but the perception of risk.
People with ‘safety technology laden’ cars tend to believe their car is safer than it really is – a problem the manufacturers should address when marketing their cars.
The result is people drive too fast.
The evidence is this. In the UK and around the world, if in an accident, you are more likely to be killed in a car with ABS than without.
Hence I fear that ‘radar’ devices will create a misperception increasing actual risk.
I have driven a Phaeton around Dresden with a ‘radar’ or an Advanced Driver Assistance System (ADAS) as it is known. It recognised road signs such as speed limits and junctions. It could tell me when I cross the road lines and had night vision if I couldn’t remember how to switch the lights on!
This really should be called a Retarded Driver Assistance System. But don’t worry, we don’t need every car to be fitted with a ‘radar’ there has been an alternative technology around for some time now.
It’s called the bus. If you can’t drive – use it!
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“The evidence is this. In the UK and around the world, if in an accident, you are more likely to be killed in a car with ABS than without.”
That’s almost like saying you’re more likely to be killed in a car with an engine than without.
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A Freedom of Information request to the Department of Transport will confirm the fact.
They may even disclose that they have had meetings with the industry to try and address this problem.
Whilst everyone has the right to remain ignorant – some people do seem to take that right for granted!
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I wonder how many near misses – which could have become accidents had it not been for ABS – do not contribute to the statistics because they are not accidents and are therefore not counted.
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Oh dear Jake, you fell into the trap of demonstrating that you believe that ABS is the all life-saving technology it isn’t.
One manufacturer has submitted evidence to the UK Courts that ABS increases their car’s stopping distances by up to 30% !!!
The logic is that ABS drivers should decrease their speeds accordingly – but no they don’t, they drive faster believing that ABS shortens stopping distances and massively improves safety.
It seems that my passengers and I enjoy a greater life expectancy in my non-ABS car than you and yours do your ABS car.
However, you may feel that until you have that fatality, you will pick up less scratches due to the ‘steerability’ that ABS gives you, I feel that that is a high price to pay. What do you value more, a life or a few scratches?
But there is no evidence to suggest that an ABS car is less likely to be in an accident in the first instance – unless you can provide us with some?
ABS improves steerbility under braking, but doesn’t guarantee it! However because my non-ABS car has up to 30% better braking, I don’t need to brake so ‘harsh’ and therefore I enjoy better steerability.
It comes back to my original point that ‘ABS ‘ is perceived as being far more superior than it really is, hence people drive too fast as they misjudge the risk. The opposite could be said of ‘non-ABS’ drivers, but that’s not a bad thing.
I have had an ABS car and after becoming familiar with it the ABS was disconnected. The improvement was quite remarkable for a skilled driver. Perhaps you should try it? And no it’s not illegal before you put your policeman’s hat on.
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No I didn’t. I demonstrated that I don’t just take statistics at face value and at least attempt some form of critical analysis. Meanwhile, you fell into the trap of making assumptions based on absence of information.
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Jake, please accept my assurance that the ‘ABS Fatality’ statistic is from people far cleverer than the average policeman.
They analise the statistics to compare like for like. That’s what statiticians do.
In a simple example of me and you having a HGV pull out infront of us, me and my passengers are more likley statistically to survive than you and yours because I drive non-ABS.
To argue that I am more likely to hit a lampost in the snow, isn’t supported by statistics and is quite irrelevant to fatality statistics.
An interesting fact I saw last time we had a snowy period was that the more severe accidents were in ‘hi-tec’ SUV’s. I put this down to the irresponsible believe that these vehicle are better in such conditions – they are not!
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Lucy, you seem happy to make glib assumptions about my knowledge of how ABS systems work and their relative strengths/weaknesses, my vehicle, my driving style and the life expectancy of my passengers without knowing the first thing about any of them. Then you go on to paint an imaginary scenario and describe its imaginary outcome as if to somehow prove a point.
By the way, I know that statisticians (who are very intelligent, mathematically gifted people) are able to make adjustments to report like-for-like comparisons. But they can only work with what they have; they can’t report on non-existent data, such as that which isn’t collated when unreported near misses (aka “not an accident”) occur. The truth is that nobody will ever know and it is not feasible to create the conditions to collect reliable, empirical data. To get around this they have to make assumptions. Perhaps you could help them out as you’re clearly quite skilled in that area.
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Thankyou Jake – jealously is the greatest compliment.
Indeed I have helped various DfT agencies in these matters. What do you do? Hand out timer switches to reduce burglaries?
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Don’t flatter yourself.
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If You need so much electronic technology to drive safely sell your car and buy a bike.
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I had a tailgater run into the back of me the other day when a dog ran out and I had to brake sharply. I skidded to a halt (no ABS) but he wrote off the front of his car…muppet..he will learn all about ABS and braking distance from that hopefully.
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The entire country is overcrowded, so the motorways and other roads will be.
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At last, someone who realises the real reason, we are too over crowded and hence so are the roads. As for middle lane hoggers, we have no choice. You either drive permently at average 40mph(inside lane), or perform about 300 overtaking procedures (the more manouvers, the greater the risk of a collision), or hog the middle lane and so everyone uses the third lane for over-taking.
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The outside lane is not for leadfoots. It is for overtaking only.
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“As for middle lane hoggers, we have no choice. You either drive permently at average 40mph(inside lane), or perform about 300 overtaking procedures (the more manouvers, the greater the risk of a collision)”
Sorry, but the above statements are absolute codswallop!
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“…develop a ‘superbus’, connected to a trailer that loads transversely small cars, so allowing drivers door-to-door journeys with their own vehicles, in a relaxed manner”
Fan me with a plate of soup! What planet are you on? It can only be Cloud Cuckoo Land.
This is one of the most hare-brained ideas I have never heard, right up there with Elvis working in a chip shop in Shifnal, politicians making good election promises or thinking that anyone can win a war in Afghanistan.
Utter tosh.
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we could do with some more motorway too though please – jobs and growth. shropshire is a classic example where journey speed could be doubled if we had a decent dualled or motoway to oswestry and it would improve safety
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I was once told that dual carriageway was originally supposed to extend beyond Shrewsbury, via Oswestry on to Wrexham and finally to Anglesey, completing the dual carriageway route from Felixstowe to Holyhead (the A14 being the other leg).
However, logic got put to one side thanks to politics and for whatever reason the route was connected to the M6 via the M56 instead.
Of course, HGV traffic en-route from mainland Europe to Ireland knows that the Shrewsbury -> Oswestry -> Wrexham route is quicker than the longer, dual carriageway alternative, which is why it’s constantly so busy.
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Solution – Issue green points for driving and flying.
Everyone gets a certain amount of green points per year, once you have used them up you have to travel via train or bus.
This would cut down congestion, increase use of public transport and encourage people not to make meaningless journeys via car which can be taken by bus or train.
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Job swap!. For example; those who live in Telford and work in Shrewsbury should swap jobs with those who live in Shrewsbury and work in Telford in roles are similar.
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and all the unemployed and homeless could be sent from Shrewsbury to Telford, where Telford could become a centre of excellence specialising in Socio-economic class E people, saving the various benefits people having to run around all over the place.
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I live in the South Telford ‘burbs but will soon be moving to Shrewsbury (for more excitement, don’t you know).
I don’t know much about organising things efficiently or being diplomatic nor do I recycle my cardboard, but I do love money and telling other people to expect less of it whilst reaping as much as I can, so could I please have a local job after I move by swapping with the leader of Shropshire County Council please?
.
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I drive considerable motorway distances in the course of my work. The problems are many but include:-
a) Some people driving too SLOWLY on the motorway (perhaps they are nervous or inexperienced) to the point that even trucks are forced to overtake (thus blocking the middle lane)
b) Too many people on mobile phones, eating, shaving or doing make up while driving and not paying attention
c) Incorrect speed for the road conditions (e.g. fog/ smoke/ poor light/ wet roads)
d) Poor lane discipline in general
e) Short following distances resulting in panic stops and traffic build ups.
Speed does not kill. A sudden stop at the end does.
f)
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a) agree
b) agree
c) agree
d) agree
e) agree
f) there is no f, but chances are I agree
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I think the letter writer might have been looking at too many Gerry Anderson TV shows to get his vision of the future.
Small wonder transport ministers don’t listen to you – it’s a barking mad idea!
It takes some people long enough to get a suitcase or a pushchair onto a bus – how long do you think it would take to load a car?! And just how big would these vehicles need to be?
Sounds like the sort of idea you should submit to Dave Gorman’s ‘Genius’ programme…
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Suspect the writer got the idea from the channel tunnel, ideal for that service, but impractical for day to day use on UK roads.
As for speed limits pehaps we should consider a 2 tier system for motorways, a lower speed limit in adverse weather conditions, similar to what they have in France 130 kph (80mph) in the dry and 110kph (68 mph) in wet or poor conditions. Without increasing limits here it could be 70mph for dry and 55 mph for wet.
Also those lorry & van drivers that slipstream each other about 6 from the vehilce in front, should be taken off the road permanently for this extremely dangerous way of driving.
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On a recent (and rare) drive on the M6 Toll road which lacks HGV vehicles, I was amazed to find I had two lanes to myself – the Lemmings were all in the right hand lane.
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