Shropshire will back pensions strikes, say union leaders
Monday 27th June 2011, 11:13AM BST.
Shropshire union leaders today vowed Thursday’s strike action over pension reform would be strongly supported across the county as talks were held stop the nationwide walkout.
A meeting aimed at heading off the threat of strikes by public sector workers was taking place today between unions and the Government with one official saying the negotiations were “fraught with difficulties.”
But the talks, which are mainly aimed at stopping a walkout by public sector workers in the autumn, is expected to have come too late to avert a strike on Thursday by up to 750,000 teachers, lecturers, civil servants.
In the Shropshire Council area at least 11 schools will be closed by action, and another 13 “partly” closed.
In the Shropshire Council area at least 11 schools will be closed by action, and another 13 “partly” closed.
Shropshire & Telford Trades Council president Brett Davis urged all members of the teaching unions to support the action and join the rallies taking place in Telford at the Cordingley Hall, Wellington, and the Unison Club at Shirehall, Shrewsbury. Both start from 12.30pm.
Mr Davis said: “These pension proposals – replacing final salary schemes with average salary schemes, doubling or tripling pension contributions and raising the retirement age – all undermine the quality of working people’s lives in retirement.
“They are also being introduced on a timescale that makes it extremely difficult for some people to make adequate alternative plans for their retirement. This is demonstrably unfair.”
Christine Hargest, secretary of Shropshire National Union of Teachers, said there was strong support among members for the strike.
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By all means strike, that is your right. But don’t expect the sympathy or support of the general working population, whose day you will affect and cost in lost wages or child minding fees.
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I find it astonishing that ordinary working people, who are only too aware of the economic pressure that all working people, whether in the private or public sector, are under, choose not to blame those responsible for our current situation – i.e. the bankers, the senior execs of global multi-national companies, and the generally tax-shy rich, but instead choose to blame other workers.
And when some of those other workers move with a common purpose to protect their position – do they applaud them for their willingness to stand up to those who seek to visit the sins of the rich upon them?
They do not.
Instead, they play the game of ‘divide and rule’ that the very wealthy love to play to protect their own privileged positions.
It really is like watching turkeys vote for Christmas.
Why not learn the lessons of history?
If working people had not stood up to exploitation in the past, we would have not achieved any of the improvements in working conditions we’ve seen over the past 70 years or more. Instead, too many of you are willing participants in the race to the bottom and to a sweatshop economy.
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Yes Peter, the unions did have a purpose 70 years ago and the working people appreciated it, but today they do not. That is why union membership is dropping and people have decided not to be lead by union leaders who are akin to the professions you mentioned.
You can stand by your lefty rhetoric, but the bottom line is people are better educated today. They can decide what is right and wrong, what is sensible and what is greed. They also understand that certain pension plans, endorsed by a previous encumbment Labour administration, are no longer sustainable unless the whole of the taxpaying contribute to said pension fund for public sector workers, and they ain’t willing to do that.
It’s like you asking me to contribute to your weekly shopping, and you know what the answer would be!
All good things must come to an end, now it’s the time of the teacher etc to work inline with the private sector. It’s time for the teaching profession to be realistic and not be greedy.
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Woody, you are still failing to address the point that the people who caused the crisis that’s led to all this in the first place (bankers and financiers mainly) have a) been bailed out by decent taxpayers like yourself (ie you have indeed contributed to their weekly shopping), b) completely refused to acknowledge this and c) again started paying themselves vast bonuses – with OUR money. This is why I have such huge problems buying the line you seem to accept so readily, that ‘we’re all in this together’.
Peter is definitely naive in asking us to remember the last 70 years of our history ; people like you have trouble remembering the last 3.
As for what you say about unions, no they’re not perfect. But falling memberships aren’t only about people making the independent decision not to join. Changes to industry, bullying from goverments and management and the proliferation of anti-union employers are also factors.
Finally, teachers aren’t a group that strike lightly. Even if you find (say) the NUT a bit excessive in their demands (and I might be with you on that one), there are other unions, usually much more moderate, who are supporting this action.
I still think you’re aiming your fire at the wrong targets to be honest.
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James, I take on board some of your comments, but others I disagree with.
I do remember more than the last 3 years (so don’t make unfounded assumptions). Wasn’t it in 1997 that a new party was elected who were going to make all sorts of new changes and make things better? Well they certainly got that wrong, the list is too long, and now we are having to address this through austerity measures.
Yes, the financial institutions did not help in the long run, their over confidence in consumer spending worldwide, based on information from the government’s in administration lead to money being lent that wasn’t there! America being a fine example where British banks got hurt. Yes, it’s all paper based, but decisions were made and the public were given credit to spend. So, it was no surprise that our government decided to bail out said bank’s, otherwise we were looking at going bankrupt! Just look at the Greek tradegy unfolding as we comment, no wonder they are rioting now their gravy train has derailed.
However, this new government realise that this type of financial suicide cannot continue and this includes the way public sector private pensions are managed and funded.
Hence, I do not believe strikes help in the slightest. I talked with friends who are teachers at the weekend and they don’t want to strike either. They are also fully aware that changes are needed in their pensions, they don’t like it, but as they said “better to have a pension than no pension at all, guess we will have to look at working past 55!”
Like any relationship, it’s all about compromise. Surely, the unions demands should reflect this and not be so demanding and one-sided? They will achieve nothing by “throwing their dollies out of the pram” because they don’t like what they are being currently told.
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Woody I’d give up on these two m8, whereas we can acknowledge the right of the unions to strike but at the same time disagree with it’s ligitimacy, these two posters have proven, especially old peter, that they will never accept any other view but their own, sad really.
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I admire their confidence. Some support this action but many many do not.
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Homework for Teachers:
Lesson 1 – Before battle, know your enemy’s strength.
Lesson 2 – Know your own strength and if you have sufficient, reliable and well-funded reserves.
Lesson 3 – Can you rely on the populace to come to your assistance if needed?
Lesson 4 – Have an escape route.
Lesson 5 – When in hole stop digging.
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GOT SHROPSHIRES SUPPORT?????? got lefti whinging support when it comes to teachers and no support for any of the others, however they do seem to be taking it all in their stride. union support not Shropshire support.
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Apologies if I’ve got this all wrong but are you the same The Lord who said in the last thread that his daughter was a teacher for seven years but found the pay and rewards poor?
If I haven’t got it wrong, however, might I suggest that (not unsurprisingly for someone with such a presumptious username) you’re being just a little hypocritical?
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The rights and wrongs of the proposed action were debated at length less than a week ago. I note that posters 1 and 2 above were on the opposite side to me but I won’t go into all that again, for now at least.
As for Nick’s, points, 1 and 2 are perhaps the most interesting. The Tories do have a record of taking on the unions and it’s been said this is an issue they won’t back down on.
I wonder, though. Cameron has actually proved to be a bit of a flip-flopper so far, notably on the sale of woodland. And I’d say there’s no way he’ll be able to push through all his proposed NHS reforms, meaning he’ll basically flip-flop (or ‘listen to public concern’) on that one too.
So No 2 will become crucial. I hope with all my heart that the public will take some kind of memory stimulant and recall that those ‘no remorse’ bankers, financiers etc are the reasons the country has problems and stop turning on people who want little more than to see promises made to them honoured. But time will tell…
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James sale of ancient woodland was not going to happen and was never planned.NHS possible he will ALTER THE PROPOSALS not stop them going ahead. Finally he will not back down on pension reform as has been said on here many times sympathy will be given on 1-2 strikes after that joe public will want the government to come down hard .
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Disgracefull attititude taken by individuals who are co-erced by the lefties in their union who dont have a clue about the real world.
The tax payer should not contribute to their pensions, they are overpaid in the main allready,they have exceptional holidays and fringe benefits such as flexi time and above average holidays, you really SHOULD take a reality check and think about those who are on agency rates of £6.00 Per Hour throughout the country, NO pensions NO sick pay etc etc
Get a grip
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Excellent point TF7. There are two camps here and one reality, the lefty gang who blame the wayward banks and the ideology of capitalism and the other group who blame 13 years of an irresponsible labour government who apdoted a policy of spend and social engineering. The one reality is whoever is responsible the country is in a mess, a serious one.
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I think it is TF7 and Iron Flag who need a reality check. I work in a local school. The staff are dedicated and often work extra hours (unpaid) and often face verbal and physical abuse. We don’t generally complain about this as we recognise that it is part of our job. We have a professional commitment to educating and nurturing future generations. We make a massive (generally unsung) contribution to this country. We also pay taxes and we pay a significant part of our wages into our pensions, though you wouldn’t think that from some of the crass comments bandied about. I agree that the situation in the private sector is incredibly bad. However, if I got mugged in the street, I would not get up, brush myself down and then attack someone on the other side of the road for not being the mugger’s victim!The muggers in this case as others have pointed out are the government (Labour and ConDem)and their fat cat mates in the City and the board rooms. Although some people in education earn reasonable salaries, many do not. I earn around £7.80 per hour. Like many of my colleagues I only get paid for term time, not for school holidays. I support the strikers 100%.
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Great stuff, go on strike but do not expect any sympathy from the public. Yo get paid well as it is let alone your pensions. Stop moaning and get back to work!
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Peter, believe it or not, the general public are fed up of the control freaks in the council, who take great delight in telling us how to run our lives, especially when they don’t realise that we, the council tax payers, are employing them. We are fed up of overspending and hearing of “payoffs” for incompetents when they get it wrong…which seems to be alot these days.
We are fed up of them whinging, we are fed up of hearing about massive pay for “non jobs”.
I personally believe that very few of the “officers”, as they chose to call themselves these days, are actually worth anywhere near what they are paid for the amount of “work” that they do.
In short …NO support for this band of “workers” and this is from someone who ussd to be a strong union supporter, has worked for councils in the past and still has friends working for councils.
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Roadrunner,
Unfortunately your rant against the council is completely irrelevant as tomorrows strike is by teachers and civil servants and not local council workers.
Do you have the same opinion of civil servants as well?
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i cant say i blame them
if people are complaining its inconvenient then doesnt that show that the services they provide are important then?
if so they are worth paying for and saving
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Stupid comment, a supermarket is convenient if they all walked out on a fri-sat-sun I’m sure people would have a dippy fit as well. I will not be affected by all this to be honest but I pity those who are let the teachers cost joe public another lost days pay and lets then see where we are “Joe public paying for teachers and the like to get their what they see as their benefits etc” yes right that will last more than one strike.
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Hey Lordy!!
They dont get paid for the day when they strike!!
Dont you even know that?
God you’re not very well versed on this subject are you? Why do you have so much to say about it then?
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I have not said they get paid??? skeptic in me thinks they will fit in a day off sick over the next 12 months though.Why do I have a lot to say about it, because I pay my taxes and I do not want to fund some individuals early pension. I am funding my own through work and pay a good wack In order to retire at 60 suggest they do the same and stop going on the scrounge want more pay more.
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@Woody, my apologies for the ‘not remembering the last 3 years’ line. It doesn’t read well now when I look back at it so fair enough for picking up on it.
I was trying to get across the point I’ve made elsewhere, but in different words, that our leaders are pursuing a ‘collective memory wipe-out’ exercise in trying to divert our ire from bankers and towards the public sector. And that I do stand by. Your post is interesting because its longest paragraph is devoted to acknowleging the bankers’ follies -yet still you won’t acknowledge that they should be sharing the pain. On the other hand, you’re at great pains to tell the public sector that they should.
About unions, I’m not sure we’re all that far apart. I believe strongly in unions, yes, but I also believe in reason. Yet what’s interesting here is that even a union that has resisted all calls to strike for the 127 years of its existence has voted to do so this time. These aren’t people who devote their lives to ‘holding the country to ransom’, as some would have it.
Austerity is needed? I’m no economist but at the very least, that’s not a statement that should go unchallenged. That great hero of the left Boris Johnson(!) has suggested before that spending is the way out of the crisis. I assume even he’s not so insouciant as to believe we should all plunge straight back into debt so the natural extension is that people need to have money to spend. Pursue austerity to the extent we’re vowing to and I wonder if they will. What’s the latest? Thornton’s closing 120 shops? The real victims of the likes of them going under will be private sector employees.
If we DO need austerity, though (perhaps we do), I come back to it yet again. Let those cursed bankers suffer it with us.
@The Lord, ‘Altering proposals’? Different words, same thing. He realises people don’t like his proposals, so he’s contemplating a flip-flop. This is charming PR man Cameron governing in a coalition, not Thatcher with landslides behind her. But as I said, you might well be right in what you say. We’ll see.
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There’s a mindset on here that none of us will alter, I’m afraid, James.
It seems to consist of slavish subservience to anyone hugely richer, and vicious backbiting to anyone perceived to be just a bit better off.
Bizarre and unpleasant, but seemingly impervious to reason.
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Kath they are not better off so they say ,that is why they are striking. Nothing to do with bowing scraping to those who some see as some how better due to being rich , oh forgot most rich people employ joe public.
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If you don’t think they are better off – pensions, perks, holidays etc. – what are you whinging about?
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salary,conditions not great,but fine for the money . My complaint is pension reforms they are needed it is 2011 forget 2007, you wish to go early you put more in your pot or you retire if you wish at the new revised age. I noted the NUT are now pushing for better private sector and state pensions , took them a while to think of adding that ie “we are thinking of others not just ourselves” very christian don’t you think?.
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Post 6, if you couldnt be bothered to get educated for a higher paid job than £6 per hour thats your fault, it also is your fault that your conditions and pension are non-existent or also poor.
Post 6, can you back up your claims about being over paid, flexi time and all the other garbage that you spout on about??
Under pressure from experienced interviewers and political journalists, the public service pension scheme is, apparently, no longer “gold plated”, nor is the scheme now “unaffordable”, but is merely “untenable”.
It was conceded this morning (and indeed the Hutton report actually pointed this out) that the peak year for costs to the public purse is this year (2010-2011) and from here forward, the cost to the taxpayer is dropping by approximately 1/3rd from 1.9% of GDP to 1.4% of GDP over the next few years – the Teachers Pension Scheme (TPS) had already been renegotiated in 2006 precisely to make it affordable and therefore, presumably fair and tenable
Yes, we all recognise that pensions need to be looked at, but just remember the outcry of the MPs themselves a year or so ago, when they were forced off their very real gold plated final salary scheme (based on £65,000 a year, accruals of 40ths or 50ths – the latter @ 6% contribution) to their new scheme based on a slightly higher salary, (and don’t forget the expenses and other perks) admittedly on an average salary base – but how many MPs do you know who earn only £15,000 a year?- and a range of contributions as low as 6%.
but, hey, what’s the point of the truth getting in the way of all of your drivel spouted on here by the uneducated.
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Please don’t spout your arrogant drivel by saying people, with a different view to yourself, are uneducated. That is plain rude and only a poor form of attack when getting exasperated by other viewpoints.
Please also feel free to quote facts and figures. But wasn’t Labour in charge in 2006 when the TPS was renegotiated? and isn’t because of better fiscal management, as you quoted, that the reduction of GDP is due to the new administration which is not coerced by unions?
As for quoting MP’s salaries and pensions, they total 650, they are elected by a free voting public that includes you. So to use them as a comparison as a rule of thumb verses the general working population is a poor argument.
Then again lefty unions are great at throwing headlines that have no relevance to the greater general public. The devil is in the detail which usually gets brushed under the carpet.
May I suggest that you would do well to take other people’s comments on board and not be dismissive.
After all, this is a democracy and not a one party state of socialism.
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Again stupid comments
” if you couldnt be bothered to get educated for a higher paid job than £6 per hour thats your fault, it also is your fault that your conditions and pension are non-existent or also poor”
One would assume this person is not a teacher? Most people work to the best of their ability they are not stupid, stupid is comments like yours . It is because of attitudes like that we have people not being aware of their limitations.
“oh everyone can be this everyone can go to uni etc etc oh everyone can take exam after exam and fail but take it again nobody says stop anymore .
As for the final point low paid workers cant afford to pay in to a private pension unless the employer gives a good lump too, public sector worker pays 11% employer pays 11% as an example ,the country can no longer afford it so it stops you want a better pension you pay in to it don’t expect everyone else to do it.
Reason why you cant expect the private sector to fall in line with conditions you have available is a simple one if we did, it would be unsustainable who would be paying for it?. If all private sector walked out what would happen ? unlike you lot the country would stop.
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Completley agree with your response on this one
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Well,
I wish I had a union to back me up in 1991 when I lost my Final salary Pension.
(The parent company decided to wind it up – and gave a PALTRY payout to us all at the time)
I’m about to retire next year – and as a direct result of that pension closure I have NO decent pension to look forward to.
AND – my wife who was born in 1954 has to wait till shes nearly 65 (instead of 60) to collect a State pension.
So – weve really lost out on all fronts -and I wouldnt wish that on anybody else
There are many more like this in the private sector – and It’s about time Pensions was given a good piece of publicity.
Whilst the public sector may have good pensions, it is most certainly not fair that ANY sector should suffer as a result as I have done.
The pensions industry needs looking at overall – not just for one sector.
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Eric,
Remarkably sensible comments, unlike those posted by Woody, Ironflag, The Lord and TF7.
Teachers had their pension rights / contribution etc renegotiated a couple of years back to ensure they were affordable.
There are people on here who believe the Mail and co and have no real idea about the true working week of an average teacher and seem to let that shape their opinions on the terms and conditions for what is, after all, a graduate profession.
It is regrettable that any final salary scheme disappears. It is regrettable that Labour didn’t kepp the reins on the banks. However, this doesn’t mean we should fall for the divide and rule tactics being used by the ConDems. We’re are being forced to engage in a race to the bottom rather than wondering why Cameron an co don’t close the tax loopholes that would give this country several of the billions we seem to be short of!!
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A sensible response? only because you agree with the answer, I do not read trashy tabloids I have the ability to listen to all sides and make my own decision, Blame Labour, unions,banks,and yes joe public on some counts. THINK OF YOUR COUNTRY INSTEAD OF YOUR BANK BALANCE OR BETTER STILL TATOO ME ME ME ME ON YOUR HEAD.
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Well said Eric, sorry to hear you have been robbed mate, its filthy poor what they did to you and your wife, this government is rubbing salt in your wounds now with more cuts to pensions for women
I too am in the private sector with rolls royce, i get a final salary pension and if they tried to cut it i would strike, i completely support private sector and public sector teachers going on strike over this, pensions are a red line, they are as fundamental to your reasons for working as gross pay so everyone should get a decent pension, like myself and my other private sector collegues do
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You mean comments that differ to your own? We are entitled to an opinion which is not driven by the left, it’s called politics.
Do me a favour and have a day off, oh! that’s right, you are!!
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frankly its fair play to the teachers, you cannot welch on a deal like that, if you want reform and i suspect reform is needed then sadly its the new staff coming in who work on lesser terms and conditions its the only moral legal proper way to operate, if you signed up aged 18 as a graduate trainee teacher based on a fixed salary and pension deal then you have to honour that, the next generation may get less but the current crop must get what they have paid for, its only right and if you stitch them up on your legal promise you get a strike (or frankly in my opinon a punch in the face is how i would deal with a manager or contractor who tried to stitch me up!!!!)
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The teachers have got to get their strike day in quick because their long summer holiday break starts very shortly.
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Eva, a silly comment but I’ll give it some (undeserved) respect anyway.
A strike has to have some effect, doesn’t it? Otherwise there really would be no point. You might like to note here my point above about unions which haven’t gone on strike for 127 years(!!) coming out this time – just in case you’re thinking of replying along ‘holding the country to ransom’ lines.
On the other hand, this strike isn’t going to compromise things like exam supervision. I hope we can agree that’s a good thing(?)
So overall, yes, I think the unions have chosen their day rather wisely.
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Eva teachers do work a bit in the summer and they dont get holiday in the rest of the year – do your home work on that one Eva!
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Two weeks at Christmas, half term in the spring and Autumn, A week or two at Easter and a minimum of a month in the Summer. Oh, and the rest of the world works as long as teachers all year round.
My father was recently doing some work which involved interviewing teachers. He arranged to speak to three teachers at a school on the Friday afternoon before the Easter break. The teachers had no classes that afternoon and were free to be interviewed. The headteacher phoned my dad to ask for the interviews to take place after Easter because the three teachers were intending to leave at lunchtime on the Friday.
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When did striking ever alter Governmental policy or bring about radical change? The miners lost and so will today’s strikers. All that will be achieved is annoyance and inconvenience to those who are working (and who are glad to have a job to go to) and those who have to lose a day’s pay to look after children who can’t go to school.
In saying this I am not arguing in favour or against the rights or wrongs of the strike – just making the point that it won’t achieve anything by way of altering Governmental policy.
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1974 when the miners strike caused Edward Heath’s government to abandon most of their economic policies. You should also see the film ‘Made in London’ about the coach fitters strike which brought in equal pay legislation.
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I wouldn’t worry, having just looked at the list of school closed in Telford the impact is fairly minimal so evidently they do not have the public support they were banking on!
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“Evidently” the list of schools merely reflects the schools which have a teaching staff who are predominantly members of ATL and the NUT – the two unions who took action. Nothing whatsoever to do with “public support”.
Schools in this region appear to have a higher proportion of NASUWT members – this union has yet to ballot its members on strike action. If and when they do, you’ll see a much greater number of schools being affected.
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‘I’m not going to try and argue that further public sector pension reform is unnecessary and wrong, but there is something plainly unsatisfactory about “race to the bottom” policy, or levelling public sector pensions down to the disgracefully low standards that rule in the private sector.’
From that bastion of the Trotskyist loony left the (er) Daily Telegraph. Maybe (I’m still only saying maybe), there’s more support for these strikes, including in some unexpected quarters, than some on this forum seem to think(?)
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James, the view in support of this strike is mixed, as proven by the posts on here.
At the end of the day their strike has divided opinion, that includes unexpected people from both the left, middle and right of politics.
I hope all parties come to a compromise to avoid further disruption, especially for pupils and working parents.
Vive et vivas.
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Yes Woody but this is a little different (at least its tone is) from what you were saying in Post 1.
I do agree with you on this though – I’d even venture to suggest that if the two sides could be as reasonable as we’re attempting to be, a half-decent settlement could be reached.
Where I guess we’d still disagree is that I think that would be largely due to the unions’ refusal to let their members be walked over while the bankers, top execs and the rest of them get off scot-free.
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i am happy that my village school is open today, all the teachers reported for work, believing we are all in this together unlike the left wing trots who follow their communist union leaders to oblivion.
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Good luck to the teachers. You are right to be angry and right to say NO to this government. Ignore the drivel and envious attitude to what you currently receive by posts on here.
Your pension was thrashed out and agreed and all because the government bailed out the banking industry to the tune of billions and, to which they now have the audasity to start paying themselves millions in bonus’s, why should you suffer? Their is a hell of a lot of envey about what teachers receive.
Good luck to you all.
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ENVEY?? Are you an idiot or taking the rest of us to be, teacher pay, conditions, etc etc are poor they tell us so as do the NUT aptly named . Many schools are closed but many are open Trinity at ford is closed I note, people in that village always said the unionized teachers ran that school not the head and they were clearly correct on that one, shame on the lot of them , nothing is set in stone learn that and get over it. I however think people coming in to teaching over the last 3-5 years are a little more savvy than the dinosaurs they have to work with who have been doing it for the last 10-15 modernize the schools get rid of the lefties .
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Wasn’t it the Labour government that had to bail our banks out initially and wasn’t it Gordon Brown who sold our gold reserves at a ridiculous amount?
Your memory is short “joinerrus”, this government (for better or worse) has got to sort this mess out, that unfortunately includes the public sector.
It is no good keep banging on about what has happened in the past, one can’t change that. It is how the future fiscal economy is addressed for future generations which is important.
I for one am not envious, I also find it offensive that you continue to use the word “drivel” when referring to another point of view no matching yours.
People are entitled to post an opinion on here, it’s called freedom of speech (be it written if you want to be pedantic).
The people I feel sorry for are the working parents who day has been disrupted because archaic union leaders, who are known socialists, cannot sit round a table and look at the bigger picture in a sensible manner like adults, and try and reach a compromise. This includes the people in government too, who I am sure would have rather continued with conciliatory talks, than regret this strike going ahead.
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it would be excellent if we could be like the french and bring the country to a standstill over major issues. We tend to let all goverments do want they want and then vote them out years later. We pay ridiculous prices for all types of fuel,water and food.(the basics of life) These prices are set by chief exectives/chairmen etc, all of which stick together so that there is very little to choose between them, giving very little competition and so keeping the prices high.All these high flyers are friends of goverment (same schools/ clubs etc) and hence a complete monoply. You will find their pensions, retirement ages, are very favourable and will not alter (only improve)because of all the back handed back slapping. A real goverment that cared for its people would not allow this to happen, nothing will change until we all do. Everybody stop until they listen!!!
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OK perhaps a teacher on here could answer this little question teachers are complaining about a 3% rise in their pensions contributions.This will bring them up to9% from 6% correct or not?.
Now a person working in the fire brigade is paying 11% that is also to rise by 3% which will take him to 14% surly the public sector should be asking for a little fairness within their public sector work place as clearly the teachers are getting a better deal even after the changes than any of the other public sector workers.
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I think you’ll find that the reason the fire service (and the police) pay more into their pensions is because they retire earlier than other workers. Retire earlier, pay more – seems perfectly fair to me.
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Woody,Ironflag,TheLord and co…. Gosh you don’t like being contradicted do you? Now, stop shouting from your soapbox and drop your trousers so the govt can do what they want to you, me and everyone else…..
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That sir is a little childish, however speaking as one of those who put the blue back in charge of this country, This was always our aim reform and reform we shall for the next 2-3 elections so get use to it.
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I don’t shout, I talk quitely. For your information when commenting one has to type in capitals to accentuate shouting!
As for your suggestion, laughable at best but a little immature.
Looking at the attendance of said strikes yesterday it has become apparent that it was poor at best, 80% of civil servants went to work and 66% of schools remained open. The unions failed because people are no longer sheep who follow the desires of their socialist highly paid leaders. They have their own educated opinion on how to address grievences.
Grown-ups talk not throw insults or throw their dolly out of the pram when they don’t get their own way. They sit round a table and discuss in an orderly adult way.
Think on!
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the teachers will be like the miners – once crushed the whole leftist movement will collapse and this country will be all the better off without them, cheaper wages will attract more jobs and more factories, we will be great britain again, no more strikes no more health and safety no more pay rises, crush them now mr cameron and you will be a legend
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I take it that you will be the first to accept “cheaper wages”?
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The “Why should we subsidise teachers pensions” argument is ridiculous. All teachers pensions and wages are paid for out of taxation because they are part of our state education system. If you follow that argument through you end up saying all teachers should be unpaid volunteers. We seem happy to throw money at bankers, football players and pop stars for doing a few minutes work each day yet we are not prepared to give teachers a decent pension for teaching our children.
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Your last two examples are poor examples sir and I do not believe they are subsidized by the tax payer.
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omg these people are wicked striking is just pure evil, satans work i say, they must be too evil to work with children if they strike
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Wise words Sarah – do you often see evidence of Satanic activity, or perhaps hear voices?
Country’s gone to the dogs since they stopped burning witches if you ask me (although I believe the practice lingers on in some of the more remote areas of Copthorne).
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as a private sector (retired) worker making do ok with a comfortable but not excessive final salary pension scheme from Barclays Bank can I just say I completely support the teachers, lecturers, the immigration staff, the port inspectors, tax collectors, adminstrators, cleaners and coastguards without which this country would be poorer not richer. Their contribution to GDP is immeasurable, they save lives every day, they keep the economy functional and they deserve a decent pension like private sector workers do too. This is not a battle of private v public is a battle of rich v poor, because the government wants to take poor public sector workers pensions off them. The rich cheif executives, engineers on the railways army generals, and lloyds tsb bankers in the public secotr will still get final salary pensions as will the rich private sector workers
its not fair
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Low paid ie 15k and under protected,These pensions are being funded by the tax payer and yes PS workers are tax payers too, however we had to cut benefits/services etc etc due to cost and the majority supported this we need now to do this with the pensions . I suggest if they do not wish to pay more let them opt for paying the same amount with halved employer contributions, or let them opt out totally and pay in to a private pension direct.
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Every year the taxpayer hands out £37 billion in tax relief on private pension contributions. About a quarter of that goes to the top 5% highest earners.
If people want to stop taxpayers subsidising other people’s pensions, why not start there rather than spitting jealousy at hard working (mostly!) public sector workers who have slogged away at below average wages for many years – even if they have caught up a bit recently – in the expectation of receiving the pension they have paid into and were promised?
Average public sector pensions are around £4,000 – £5,000 a year depending whose stats you believe. Is that really worth all the venom poured on them?
As for ‘the money’s not there, we can’t afford it’ – we don’t know that, because the government refuses to publish an audit of whether the teachers’ pension scheme is in the black, the red or the sky blue pink. Wonder why?
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Finally the voice of reason, well put Kath
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@Kath, well, the word ‘unaffordable’ has mysteriously turned into ‘untenable’. I draw three possible conclusions.
1. The pensions are not in fact ‘unaffordable’.
2. The government hoped people would be either too stupid to even notice the wording had changed or too stupid to understand that ‘unaffordable’ and ‘untenable’ have different meanings. Brings Orwell’s Animal Farm to mind.
3. This is not about affordability at all. It’s about the ‘race to the bottom’, ‘equality of misery’ etc etc. But then I think we knew that all along.
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JOK perhaps a teacher on here could answer this little question teachers are complaining about a 3% rise in their pensions contributions.This will bring them up to9% from 6% correct or not?.
Now a person working in the fire brigade is paying 11% that is also to rise by 3% which will take him to 14% surly the public sector should be asking for a little fairness within their public sector work place as clearly the teachers are getting a better deal even after the changes than any of the other public sector workers.
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At last someone on the right recognises that not all public sector pensions are the same! As the government has now decided on seperate negotiations on the Local Government pension, I think they realise this too.
Civil Servants pay a maximum of 3% to a pension which is taken direct from taxation, no managed investment fund.
Teachers pay a maximum of 6.5% again into an unfunded pot.
Local Government pay up to 7.5% into a managed investment fund. Employers contributions, deferred wages, are added and the fund is managed. Currently the national local government pot holds £140 billion. It is highly likely that the office you work in, or the shopping centre in your town is partly or wholly owned by the pension pot. The funds are balanced over a range of investments from shares to property. No tax revenue is used to top up the fund. Funds suffered during the credit crunch, when Hutton was preparing his report, but have bounced back and are now relatively healthy.
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Every £1 extra that a public sector worker may have to pay towards his or her pension means £1 less spent in private sector restaurants, cafes, shops, travel agents, supermarkets, garages etc etc.
And that in turn will mean less private sector jobs and/or lower wages for them too. What a wonderful government this lot is.
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