Thousands on Shropshire housing waiting list

Friday 27th May 2011, 11:10AM BST.

Thousands on Shropshire housing waiting list

NINE THOUSAND people in Shropshire are on waiting lists for a house, it was revealed today.

Council housing chiefs today claimed “Nimbys” opposing new developments to address the shortage were making it impossible to get anywhere near a target of building more than 1,000 homes in the county every year to meet demand.

They claim one house in Shrewsbury that recently became available had “200 or 300 bids on it”.

Shropshire councillor Mal Price, portfolio holder for housing and planning, claimed many people in the county faced an uphill struggle to get a home for themselves and their families.

He was introducing a consultation document on the Joint Housing Strategy for Herefordshire and Shropshire. “We are looking at ways of bringing schemes forward,” he said.

“But it will never meet the demand. If you did, you would need to build 1,200 houses a year.

“The waiting list currently stands at 9,000 people — it is massive and I feel sorry for people on it. There was a house in Shrewsbury that had 200 or 300 bids.”

He said the council was also looking at ways to make more use of the thousands of empty private properties in the county. He would ideally like to see more “affordable” houses built in Shropshire — but claimed development plans often faced strong opposition.

“We are doing the best with the tools we have got,” he said. “I would like to develop more but every time we get a scheme, I have the same objections from Nimbys.”

The draft strategy document lays out housing priorities for Shropshire and Her- efordshire to 2015, with three key areas identified.

The first is to provide “adequate and affordable housing” to meet current and future needs. Other priorities include ensuring exis- ting stock is used effectively and is of a high standard.

It is hoped this will reduce the number of empty homes, and limit the impact of fuel poverty. The consultation paper also suggests residents should get access to support and advice on housing. It said the two key aims are helping to prevent homelessness and assisting council tenants who want to live more independently.

A consultation will begin in July, running for 12 weeks.

By Chris Burn


  1. 1
    bcola

    Be foreign you will soon get a house.

    Report abuse

    • pete

      Get back to reading your Daily Mail and stop making stupid comments.

      Report abuse

      • Colin.D.

        Not stupid pete,true. Some years ago, my wife was driving for a private hire firm in Wem. She was called to the council offices to take an Indian family of 4 to a hotel in Market Drayton. They had turned up with no support and asked for a house.
        After a few weeks of rate payer funded B&B, she was again called to take them to a 3 bedroom council house.
        No wonder we get letters like the one from bcola. It is wrong that people can come to the UK and jump the queue like that, no matter what colour or religion they are.
        Stop that sort of thing and maybe they would be looked on a bit more kindly.

        Report abuse

        • Peter

          Colin,

          No-one jumps the queue. The instances you report were most likely an emergency social services response to provide temporary accommodation. If there hadn’t been children involved there would probably have been nothing on offer save for accommodation provided by charities.

          Despite what you might like, we don’t leave children without shelter in this country – I think we should be proud of that. I’m guessing that the council didn’t discuss their temporary housing policy with your wife – you and she simply jumped to your own, incorrect, conclusions.

          Report abuse

      • Katherine deGama

        Wrong name. It’s the Daily Fail!

        Report abuse

    • Frieden

      Why that mate…Isn’t it based on priority ratings?

      Report abuse

    • Ted

      Or have lots of kids from lots of different fathers.

      Report abuse

    • Peter

      Any evidence for that? Or just a tabloid inspired racist comment?

      Report abuse

    • Stokey

      Absolute tosh, perhaps they should link the issue of these houses to those prepared to work,that way you get a return on what you put in.

      Report abuse

      • ShropshireLad

        The most sensible comment I’ve read so far.

        How do the people posting comments about foreign people feel about lazy English people who are given houses even though they have no desire to work.

        Report abuse

        • ANDREW FINCH

          Well many rather odd comments to start with
          GIVEN? I am unaware of anyone given a home do they not have to pay rent/council tax/water rates just like any other tenant be they housing association/council/private renters or mortgage payers I would like to remind this the mortgage payer they are not home owners until the last payment is made contrary to what many in this group think.
          Second point myth social tenants are all unemployed in fact this government has clearly stated we have many tenants on 50k a year living in social housing. I also am aware of a number of social tenants who own property here or abroad . it is estimated 40,000 people will loose their home over the next 12 months due to mortgage repossession most due to losing their jobs etc so these poor people would be bunged in to the group of not only bone idle but debt ridden lay abouts . Sadly we do have thick people in our society possibly with good jobs who are unable to decide what is stereo type rubbish and what are the real facts.

          Report abuse

  2. 2
    mark

    the housing list is so big,same with the jobless is bound to be heavily because of the big sign on the uk saying
    “welcome immigrants,come one come all”

    Report abuse

    • jackie

      it so true if all the governments that have been in power since the 70s put a ban on immigrants coming here there would be plenty of houses plenty of jobs and there would be plenty of money in the government kitty an u cant blame just one party because they are all guilty of letting foreigners in the country and giving em more rights than we got my son and his family and my daughter and her family cant get council house in shropshire they have 2private rent

      Report abuse

  3. 3
    Matt

    You can thank Margaret Thatcher’s so called ‘Right’ to buy scheme and the Councils inability to use that money effectively and rebuild what they sold. The Council and Thatcher Government should hold the blame squarely.
    No-one has a right to buy a home – it is a priviledge, much in the same way as owning and running a car.
    This Country is obsessed with home ownership -which in itself if frought with problems. Many other European – and World Countries – are happy to rent. I was one of the few lucky ones. I saved and scrimped with no help and own a beautiful mortgage free home. Too many people want handouts and help all the time.

    Report abuse

  4. 4
    Wendy Brook

    Thank you so much for this article! I work in the community with local people who are homeless or in accommodation which is of a very poor standard who can not get moved, our young people, the next generation! Why oh why do we house those choosing to come to England to live ahead of our own!

    Report abuse

    • Peter

      Do you have even one, documented, case where a foreign person has been given accommodation, other than on a very temporary basis, or with an overriding need (such as young children) ahead of someone indigenous to this country? I very much doubt it.

      Whilst a number of racist political parties and groups have made such claims in the past no such claims have been found to have any substance at all.

      For those talking about ‘free’ and subsidised housing, it might surprise you to learn that the vast majority of those in receipt of housing benefit are actually in work!

      Perhaps if we don’t like subsidising accommodation we need to look at a)the level of the minimum wage, and b) the rents demanded by by too many of our private landlords.

      Report abuse

  5. 5
    J H T

    theyre not nimbys if they say they dont want to build on shropshires green belt and want homes which last more than 50 years and look attractive and traditional and well build.

    come back with some high quality sustainable schemes and people will back them, if you plan to build barratt/wimpy homes all over our medieval town and AONB countryside then dont be suprised if we oppose them!

    Report abuse

    • ANDREW FINCH

      What a stupid comment, that is all they build in our country to do not get any other type if you do show us,all poorly built and poor quality houses and the madness is people pay for them.

      Report abuse

    • robby

      its a good comment actually andrew

      i totally agree with JHT

      people oppose development often because they are poorly sighted or poorly designed

      Report abuse

  6. 6
    Squire

    Maybe people should start using contraception, then we might not need to give so many houses out.

    Report abuse

    • probin

      They don’t give houses away (unless you are on the dole)

      Report abuse

    • El

      When I was nearly homeless and called the council on the Wrekin Housing Trust’s instructions in February the bloke at the council told me the only way to get on the list was to get pregnant – those were his actual words!

      Needless to say I have had to opt for the expensive childfree private rent option!

      Report abuse

  7. 7
    adam

    Be foreign….

    …share a single room in a private let with a friend, don’t smoke, drink, or have a 40″ telly……..work 12hours a day 7 days a week for the minimum wage…….and you will be able to afford a house

    Report abuse

  8. 8
    No More Noddy Houses

    Houses for local Salopians first…brummies a bit longer…we all want a nice life

    Report abuse

  9. 9
    hjay

    both work full time but cant afford a deposit for new house we have been waiting nearly 4 years to move,they say the waiting list is 3 years its a joke, we live in a housing association property at the moment with 2 boys sharing a box room in a 2 bed house,but there just not interested if your on the dole or foreign you get a house right away.

    Report abuse

  10. 10
    pete

    The truth behind this story is that houses are far too expensive to buy. Until that is sorted out the the waiting lists will always be too long for council housing.

    Report abuse

    • ShropshireLad

      Houses are definitely too expensive to buy… but not reason to give someone a council house. I can’t afford to buy a house and am renting a privately owned house.

      Report abuse

      • ANDREW FINCH

        Good for you, but your point is?? and who gives a person a house ??? where are the free houses in the UK .

        Report abuse

        • ShropshireLad

          I’m talking about people who think they have got a right to social housing because they can’t afford to buy a house. There are other options for them, one of which is renting a privately owned house.

          Report abuse

        • Pete

          Your right there are other options.

          But I have not said anything about people having a devine right to a council house. The state of the current housing market has a knock on effect, which waiting lists going up is one.

          Report abuse

        • ANDREW FINCH

          Shropshire lad are you aware how many private tenants are in receipt of housing benefit? clearly not . These people are a massive HIDDEN drain on the benefit system however if we have low cost affordable homes made available this would not be the case yes they will be subsidized when built, however most tenants are or would be in work so it balances itself out.
          Your weird idea of thought, people should pay and happily do so high over inflated rents agree to tenancy agreements which are 6-12months awful for people with families where education at the same school is important a very odd British view on par with putting up with poor service .
          It is my view councils should have the right to cap private rents dependent on the area you live , tenancy agreements should be brought in to line with other EU countries . The positive side to low cost affordable homes is the tenant has the chance to save in order to buy their own property if they so wish they cant do that when they have to pay over inflated private rents many for property which is not worth what they are paying, and the poor level of service they receive from landlord and estate agents.
          They also it seems run the risk of losing massive deposits a very popular problem even with the so called new protection schemes landlords are suppose to subscribe to ,all because they take issue with the level of poor service given by a landlord .
          I recently spoke to a landlord who was rather chuffed that he had retained all of the tenants £1,350 deposit , reason was he said wear on the carpet and a dirty oven both questionable, when the tenant said they would clean the oven again he stated NO i will do it then it will be to the standard I expect charge £750 over half the deposit??. This lady asked the landlord had he put her deposit in a scheme No he had not.
          A court case recently stopped a tenant from claiming compensation from the landlord for braking government law , he would have been entitled to 3 times the deposit due to the landlord dishonesty because that is what it is. The landlord I first mentioned retained all of the ladies deposit and when her solicitor wrote to him he replied “tell her to take me to court something she could no longer afford due to him stealing her money. Rules are be broken and the housing issue needs to be taken up by one of the parties and given a dame good overhaul from council/association,private rental sector only difference it seems the private tenant can be fleeced and their reaction to that is have a go at affordable homes weird or what.

          Report abuse

        • salopian

          Go and have a look at Wenlock Rise in Bridgnorth – free houses and flats for drug addicts and criminals – many of them shipped in from Telford,

          Report abuse

    • ANDREW FINCH

      salopian The the majority of decent people suffer for the sake of the minority element.I would also say again we have no free houses some one pays for them.

      Report abuse

      • salopian

        They are free to the wasters that is the point – that people are trying to get over to you – why should the law abiding, tax paying, people of Bridgnorth put up with work shy, drug addicted criminals being moved into our town at no cost to them but huge costs to us?

        Report abuse

  11. 11
    probin

    They give priority rating to ex cons on probation. We had one in our street and he caused so much misery, that he was soon evicted.

    Report abuse

    • Dick James

      Your opinion is based on knowledge of one case, there are many more cases where those being released from prison etc can’t be housed because no-one will house them. “Understandable”, I hear you say, & you may be correct, but what happens is that they they end up ‘sofa-surfing’ or relying on the largesse of those they associated with before being imprisoned – very often living in such a way results in them re-offending & the cycle begins again…

      Report abuse

  12. 12
    chris

    In Shrewsbury there’s people over 40 years old living in 3 and 4 bedroom council houses on there own. When your children grow up and move out you should give the house up to another family and be moved to something alot smaller.

    Report abuse

    • probin

      This was brought in as a government ruling, but is ignored by housing trusts.
      But i have heard Wrekin Housing Trust have started to look into this.

      Report abuse

      • ANDREW FINCH

        Nothing they can do they can look at everything however the tenant signed an agreement and pays the rents. Never understood why some one wants to kick an old person who offends no one out of the home they have rented for years. However new tenants are different

        Report abuse

      • El

        Its actually not that easy – my friend lives 5 doors away from my mum with her parents and daughter in a 2 bed, my mum lives on her own in a 3 bed, both housing trust. When we asked if they could swop the Housing Trust said they couldn’t unless my mum paid the higher rent on the 2 bed because the types of contracts couldnt be swopped between properties and they said this was down to central government regulations

        Crazy!

        Report abuse

  13. 13
    Nick

    When people haven’t conquered basic English grammar and consequently find it difficult to differentiate between their, there and they’re, I find it hard to understand how they can make an intelligent contribution to this debate.

    Report abuse

    • ShropshireLad

      I share your viewpoint. Not you’re but your. ;)

      Report abuse

    • ANDREW FINCH

      Comments like this are tiresome people are not writing an essay but posting on a internet website via ipod/iphone lap top etc and as such do it it quickly etc , think yourself lucky they do not use tx lol u b/end.

      “I find it hard to understand how they can make an intelligent contribution to this debate”.Take the vote of them while your at it pompous oik

      Report abuse

  14. 14
    Colin.D.

    In reply to Peter. You may be right about it being an emergency response, but, WHY were they allowed to come here with no accommodation or financial provision? The emergency was of their own making yet the local rate payer was left to pick up the tab, and someone was moved down the list to accommodate these aliens.
    I still say it was wrong.

    Report abuse

    • Peter

      Colin,

      It seems doubtful that you will have been fully informed of the circumstances of the family in question.

      You cannot assume that simply because they were of Asian origin that they had anything less in terms of immigration status than any ‘white’ family who found themselves homeleless – nor can you assume that they were treated differently because of their ethnic origin – there’s no evidence of that.

      There are many situations in which people find themselves homeless and without funding – sometimes very suddenly. The same rules apply to all such people, and the single mot influential factor in allowing housing is the presence of children – inevitably their welfare takes precedence over almost all other factors.

      The suggestion by several ill-informed contributors here (not you) is that somehow ‘being foreign’ (and by that I think they mean ‘having a different skin colour’) somehow entitles people to preferential treatment. It doesn’t – full stop.

      No matter what fiction people read in the tabloids or hear from racists such as the BNP, there are very limited rights available to people ‘just turning up’ in this country. Often thay arrive without documents, so are very difficult to deport – often the best we can do is to hand them back to the French if they’re caught trying to cross the channel – and they in turn cannot deport them due to their lack of official identity.

      We have nowhere to detain them – and the very people who so object to their presence would often be the first to throw up their hands in horror at a detention centre being built in their back yard.

      Benefits paid to those who are granted a temporary stay whilst potential asylum issues are sorted out are very, very low – typically just a small allowance for food, with no accommodation entitlement, and they are not allowed to work. What else would people have us do – lock up children?!

      How would potential asylum seekers nd up in Shropshire? Well, that’s because councils share the responsibility across the country, rather than allowing ports to take all of the responsiblity. Contrary to all the rubbish you see printed we do stop many illegal immigrants from entering the UK, and we also deport many where it is legally possible under international law.

      Sadly, these people are led to believe that our streets are paved with gold, and we have too many ‘employers’ willing to exploit them, and to undercut legitimate employers.

      But all this really has nothing to do with the housing shortage. One of the principal reasons for the current shortage of social housing was the loss of the council housing stock under the ‘right to buy’ scheme in the ’80s, and the subsequent failure to invest the proceeds in replacements.

      Instead, I’m afraid, it went on 40% + tax cuts for the wealthy…

      Report abuse

      • Vitruvian

        Comment of the year.

        I’m pretty sick of seeing evidence such as ‘I once spoke to a guy in a pub who told me that…’ to explain the problems we face today. It’s easy to look at something from one angle, fail to consider the true circumstances, then spill some vitriol across a fairly right wing community (the SS letters page included). What’s more difficult and somewhat courageous, is to challenge your knee-jerk reaction, ask yourself ‘is there more to this situation than meets the eye’ and if you discover there is, you let people know and you try to educate others.

        Thanks, Peter, for being that person.

        Report abuse

        • Peter

          Vitruvian,

          Thanks – my pleasure!

          Report abuse

        • salopian

          So show me your evidence that crime, fear of crime and ASB has not risen in Bridgnorth since Wrekin Housing moved a lot of young criminals into brand new housing in Bridgnorth?
          Hint – check the crime stats before responding

          Report abuse

  15. 15
    jimmy

    im sorry but if people cant afford a house then RENT!!!

    its not our problem, its not our fault, taxpayers do enough, rent and save thats what i had to do, it took me til 30 even as a graduate just to buy a one bed flat and now im in negative equity with it thanks to the crash, yet i still pay taxes so people on more income than me can have subsidised rent and mortgage releif, its just not right

    Report abuse

    • ANDREW FINCH

      So you went to uni any government handouts back then???, You then bought a one bed flat why?? if you couldn’t afford anything better than that you should have continued renting. you clearly hoped property prices would boom not a clever move, but thats what greed gets you, and then you have ended up in negative equity which is some one else’s fault I suppose? even though you clearly over paid for it in the first place. I also question was your uni education worth it?? as you then go on to say people in social housing earn more than you ? but clearly if they earn more than you they pay more taxes than you so why should you get anything clearly your a bit of a tit. .

      Report abuse

    • El

      I do rent!!! Unfortunately because of the high rent I can’t afford to heat the damn place!!!

      Least you got the chance to go to uni, I couldn’t afford to.

      Lucky you eh!

      Report abuse

  16. 16
    Woody

    The bottom line is that the council(s) are guilty of not reinvesting the money they attained when selling existing council housing stock into building new stock. It really is that simple, and the powers that be should be utterly ashamed.
    All other points are the cause of Central Government policy and therefore are consequential decisions by the present Minister in charge.

    Report abuse

  17. 17
    eva land

    Peter I was a socialist until I came back to live in Shropshire.

    There is a completely pointless museum being built at us tax payers expense on land that would have provided a couple of affordable homes. Instead the land has been allocated to an anorak club that just happens to be able to pull strings despite not getting lottery funding.

    The Grange has been culled, the Isiah project did not get the £100,000 it needed to look after the homeless but at least the middle class can coo over Victorian Railway history. Can you get enough of it?

    Report abuse

  18. 18
    ANDREW FINCH

    Nothing they can do to tenants with old agreements they cant be broken, if they are solo in 2-3 bed or if they now earn good money its all spin to keep people with stereo type views happy. Never understood why some one wants to kick an old person out of the home they have rented for years with out issues and give it to who?.
    Where do we stop ? new housing do we stop solo people buying 2-3 bed homes because that clearly stops couples with children buying them?do we stop the buy to let landlords? do we stop holiday home owners? people possibly need to keep a check on their own home first.

    Report abuse

  19. 19
    Helen

    When will the Lib/Lab/Con supporting idiots grasp the obvious fact that the country is full up.
    We haven’t the infrastructure or the resources to cope with any further immigration.
    Time to close the door!

    Report abuse

    • Mike In Shrops

      Time to drop your copy of ‘The Sun’ Helen and educate yourself. Stop being so naive!

      Report abuse

    • salopian-sparky

      Helen
      You think the country is full up now,
      Wait till the Serbs and the Turks join the
      EU.

      Report abuse

    • Peter

      There’s no link between the housing shortage and immgration. That’s simply myth put about by racist political parties, and a rabble-rousing tabloid press.

      On th subject of immigration however, pehaps Helen could explain how we ‘close the door’?

      We already have robust immigration laws, and have always had these, despite the lies put about by certain so-called political parties. However, under international law it’s very difficult to legally deport people who have no documentation and are effectively stateless.

      Report abuse

  20. 20
    bob

    There’s a housing shortage? Then why, in my village of 80 houses, six have been up for sale for three years, and another three are empty rentals? Building more houses isn’t the solution – reducing house and rental prices is.

    Report abuse

  21. 21
    Steven

    I know this is going to sound cruel, but is it right that a single elderly person should be allowed to remain in a 3 or 4 bedroom home now that the kids have moved out and the spouse has passed away ? There should be more priority in getting these people into single or sheltered accommodation and free up bigger homes. You are all going to start screaming now about letting them live out their days in their homes that they have lived in for 50 years or more, the memories etc. but we have to be practical, and before anyone asks if I am in favour of euthanasia, I’m not.

    Report abuse

    • ANDREW FINCH

      This POSSIBLY will never happen with anyone on an old contract, possible with new tenants. However many social tenants as figures show move out after 6-9 years to become owner occupiers. A contract is a contract if they the government wish to break it then they will need to pay to do it which is why they will not enforce much of the amusing spin. My own view is if we have two terms of Tories they will start to offer incentives”financial” for tenants who can afford it , to move on many people in social housing no longer have the right to buy and many of the decent local authority homes went years ago . But A SOCIAL TENANT can move in to a similar 1/2 buy 1/2 rent property leading to full ownership . The whole thing is very complicated and not as simple as the spin people are given but hey it keeps them quiet for a while.

      Report abuse

      • Jam

        As much as I wish it was true, My nan was in a severnside house (previously SABC) and brought up 2 kids there etc with my granddad.

        At the time she died, there was only my uncle and her living there, and within the month severnside had kicked him out because the house was too big for him on his own.

        So it can happen, but nothing surprises me with severnside.

        Report abuse

        • ANDREW FINCH

          Are you sure you have not missed out a bit such as was your uncle on the rental agreement etc? how long had he lived at the address ? did he get another severnside property ?

          Report abuse

    • jeff

      It’s OK saying all the people living alone in 3/4 bedroom houses if these are housing association propetys then the tennant has to wait for some one else in bungalows owned by the housing association to die to make the propety available for them, as peole are living longer, we need more social housing for the elderly.

      What about the house owners who live in big houses?

      Report abuse

  22. 22
    nick hughes

    sorry but its a private problem for the indvidual and family concerned not a social problem for us the taxpayer to sort out, there are homes to rent and amble derelict ones too which if their was demand entrepreneurs would restoer them, by providing council houses we undermine the private rental market which could solve these issues for people if left alone

    Report abuse

    • ANDREW FINCH

      But you like every other tax payer including a social housing tenant in work, which more are than are not cant dictate how taxes are spent . A bit of an I’m alright jack opinion from you.
      YOU GO ON TO SAY

      “by providing council houses we undermine the private rental market which could solve these issues for people if left alone”

      Rubbish the private rental market is at best not value for money at worst in some cases run by the dishonest, we also had slums pre- social housing remember or if you do your homework you will see this was the case.

      Social/affordable housing we as a country have a need for , as it is rented out at an affordable rate £430 on average for a 3 bed H/A property less for a council house. The average wage is 24k private rents for a family home are £850 on average with large deposits required up front THAT undermines the ability of people who work hard from saving to buy a home , and that is what needs looking at .
      I would also add we in Europe stand basically amongst very few with our obsession to actually own a home as one French lady told me “you British spend far to much on buying or even renting a home why do you put up with such silly high rents?”.
      My answer many British people who are private tenants instead of encouraging low cost affordable homes for all decent hard working people who need them, frown on them and demand that everyone pay high rents simply for no reason other than they do? That has be now exposed as a myth as many of these private tenants have been taking housing benefit payments in order to pay the rent unknown to the general public, so why may I ask are they any different to an housing association/council house tenant who pays an affordable rent with out the need to apply for housing benefit .

      Report abuse

  23. 23
    Homeless in August

    We have been given two months notice to leave our rented property.Because the landlord is selling up.Privatly renting now in Shrewsbury for nearly ten years.Because of the situation we have never been able to save enough money for a deposit to by our own house.We have little savings,i work full time and my partner part time and most of what we earn goes towards rent,heating,clothing,food etc for us and our two children.
    I now find that most private rentals now demand up to £1000 deposit,plus one months rental upfront for a decent property in Shrewsbury could be £650.
    We dont have that kind of money upfront.I try and put a brave face in front of my children and partner.But deep down as the days go by i get more concerned about where we will be come August.
    We are on the Homepoints register,but up untill now we are on the bronze level.Which is none priority.
    We have a meeting with the council in two weeks time to discuss our options.But again,thats another two weeks less to find somewhere else to live.
    I am not looking for handouts or sponging off the state,just somewhere to put a roof over my childrens heads,through no fault of our own.

    Report abuse

    • ANDREW FINCH

      A perfect example why private rents should be capped , and types of tenure changed on par with EU guidelines . I would also add maybe controversial but you do not actually have to leave just a thought if you require a few extra months , have you thought of asking the landlord directly if you can stay until it sells?.

      Report abuse

  24. 24
    Georgey P

    let them eat cake

    Report abuse

    • ANDREW FINCH

      Can only get away with that saying for so long then you get stuffed.what goes around always comes around without fail.

      Report abuse

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