Stop moaning over AV vote, says Wrekin MP Mark Pritchard
Tuesday 26th April 2011, 11:30AM BST.
Labour heavyweight Lord Mandelson today accused Prime Minister David Cameron of turning the referendum battle on the voting system into a bitter Coalition row – as Shropshire Conservative MP Mark Pritchard told Liberal Democrat leader Nick Clegg to stop “whingeing” about campaign tactics.
Mr Pritchard, secretary of the Tory backbench 1922 Committee, hit out at Mr Clegg after he accused the No campaign of peddling “lies”.
Mr Clegg also accused Mr Cameron of aligning himself with “the right-wing elite” including the likes of the far-right BNP, while Energy Secretary Chris Huhne accused top Tories such as Chancellor George Osborne and Foreign Secretary William Hague of telling “untruths”.
Mr Pritchard said: “Nick Clegg and Chris Huhne should stop their whingeing. With each of them presiding over major government departments they’ve never had it so good.”
The issue has also firmly split Labour. Lord Mandelson’s intervention suggests there are concerns in the Yes camp about the PM’s high profile drive against change.
The former Labour cabinet minister said voters should not pass up the chance to vote Yes on May 5 and “damage” the Tories.
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OH it has not taken long has it, LIB/DEMS you have allowed your party to be the tory boys lap dog now shut up and do as you are told..However I do not think the Tories should upset the lib/dems yet a bit to soon i think.
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I cant believe you even bothered to report this?
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Why are the Tories so scared of the AV voting system. This Mr Pritchard is an example why I do not vote Conservative.
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What utter rubbish. That’s like me saying I wouldn’t have voted for Gordon Brown because I didn’t like the colour of his tie. The AV vote is such a ridiculous issue to have differences with all the bigger issues out there. A £150 per month tax hike this month is far more important to me than the ability to waste a vote if I want to.
(Point having been made, I just ought to point out that I didn’t vote for Gordon because he wrecked the economy and we’re still paying for it, rather than anything to do with his tie).
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here here
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There, there, get some English lessons dear. Oh you can’t the Tory government cut them.
The AV vote was a blood-deal done to get the Lib-Dems in with the Cons. So your stuck with it.
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The point is that the politicians who benefit from the existing two-party seesaw do not care about issues that are important to the average voter. Once in power they jump to the highest bidder. Hence the last labour government gave priority to 24-hour drinking, casinos and supporting George Bush whilst turning a blind eye to the excesses in the City of London that caused the present crisis. They major parties need a good shake to show them that they only govern on our say-so, not that of vested interests.
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I still find it hard to wonder why the Tories are against AV they use it to pick their leader or are we deemed to stupid to be able to list candidates in order of preference?
another MP who most in his constituency voted against him
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yes2AV
its good for britain, more choice and no more safe seats
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I do wonder why Mr Pritchard and his Conservative colleagues protest so much about AV. I also wonder why, when they needed the Lib Dems in order to govern, they so rabidly attack them in their Say No To AV leaflets. That’s as logical as David Cameraon attacking Osborne or Gove in election material.
The Conservatives realise (but won’t say it) that first past the post is only fair when there are only two candidates. It is illogical with three or more unless there is a clear over 50% winner. Hence their campaign message makes no sense with its sporting analogies.
The Conservatives and some Labour MPs also realise that the safe seats of old may become a thing of the past if they have traditionally been won on a minority of votes cast. It may actually mean MPs having to work for votes rather than just relying on core support. I have no party allegiance but find the “No” campaign deceitful and full of scaremongering nonsense. I’m sure I’m not alone in being able to see beyond the lies. Mr Pritchard would do well to consider that we who vote are not the mugs he and his colleagues take us for.
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I will be going for AV if it provides a way of getting Mark Pritchard out of a job that he thinks is his by right. Isn’t this what the whole thing is all about – MP’s do not want to talk to boring voters, but they like easy street to retain their seats?
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The Tories do not use AV to elect their leader they have rounds of voting and know at each stage what the alternatives are before casting their vote.
I do not understand this argument, the candidate received more votes than anyone else. AV will mean that a candidate who did not win the majority of votes could end up being elected because a majority of voters put them second or third, (in other words they did not want them to be their MP, they preferred someone other), so you would still have an MP the majority of voters did not want.
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“…so you would still have an MP the majority of voters did not want”. What nonsense. You would have an MP who would be the first or second choice of over 50% of the electors. I think you will find that’s a majority.
Traditionally in most parts of this country majority voting goes to centre left parties and it is they who stand to gain as it is likely they will second choice each other. That is the fear of the Conservatives.
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Not at all, the elected may have to rely on being 3rd or 4th ‘favourite’, which is no favourite at all.
You simply end up with the least unpopular being elected rather than the most popular and extremist votes having an impact.
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Simon if a voter puts a candidate in first place that is the person they want, it is not the person who gets their second or third vote, they are the ones the voter does not want, if they did they would have put them in first place. Hence under AV we will still have MPs elected who most people did not want.
If you vote for candidate B as your second choice and he gets elected he is still the person you did not want.
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AV is such an illogical system that I am surprised that anyone can even consider using it. How many other countries are using it? Three? And one of them is trying to ditch it. Where is the sense in a candidate who won less votes that the winner being elected? This is barmy. So I’ll be voting NO.
I might however be persuaded to change my mind if AV stopped the even more barmy practice of giving India £65 billion, when we can’t afford new schools or hospitals for our own nationals. Now that IS worth arguing about.
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“I might however be persuaded to change my mind if AV stopped the even more barmy practice of giving India £65 billion, when we can’t afford new schools or hospitals for our own nationals”. I don’t see your logic. AV refers to a voting system not this or any future government so AV now or at a later date has nothing to do with aid being sent anywhere. It will have an impact on who we elect and will ensure that those we put in office have to work for our vote. If you want a greater say then common sense to me suggests that AV will ensure fairer representation of the electorate rather than the interests of a loyal minority. Many supposedly safe seats in this country are held by MPs and parties with a significant minority of the votes cast. If you’re happy with that rather than insisting the MP and party must get more than 50% then feel free to vote NO.
That only three countries use AV is a point to acknowledge but it ignores the worldwide prevelance of some form of Proportional Representation. Our system is unfair and unrepresentative. I will be voting YES because I want all of our votes to count.
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There are many good reasons to Vote Yes2AV, but the best is that our current system means too many MPs are in “safe” seats. This breeds complacency and arrogance. Remember the expenses scandal? Were they complacent and arrogant? The system really needs shaking-up and this referendum is our opportunity. It is not a party issue – it is our opportunity to fight against Jobs for Life for the MPs who are making the voters’ jobs unsafe – whatever party the MP represents.
This is a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity – we must take it and vote YES to AV.
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Again MPs are in safe seats because most people vote for them or their party, they get more than 50% of the votes anyway so AV will not change that.
Yes many MPs are complacent and arrogant and the system really needs shaking up! But I fail to see how a voting system that will produce more hung parliaments thus more power to the parties and more behind doors dirty deals after an election will shake up the system, it wont it will entrench that which is wrong with our system.
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I’ll be voting for AV.
If a candidate needs 50% of the vote, then they will have to work hard for the constituency. No more lazy MPs in safe seats who only get active near election time.
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Yes, because everyone is so complimentary and proud of the coalition government that we have at the moment, lets change the system so we have a hung parliament after every general election, great idea!
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It amuses me that Cameron and co had to go cap in hand to the Lib Dems in order to form a coalition and now attack the same party that allowed them to govern. They suggest that AV guarantees further coalitions whilst in effect implying that their own version is an example of how awful such things are. If there is a likelihood of further coalitions it will have nothing to do with the voting system and everything to do with dissatisfaction with the three main parties and how indistinct from each other they are now perceived.
The current system is unfair and it is high time MPs were made to work for votes rather than merely relying on party loyalty.
The suggestion that the loser could win is possible theoretically only. In reality it is likely that the swing will be based on second choices for one of the main three parties and that will quickly achieve the 50% margin.
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The flaw in your logic is that there’s nothing intrinsically bad about a coalition government.
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I think you’re getting this the wrong way round.
The problem with the current coalition is that the LibDems aren’t seen as being able to put the brakes on Conservative policies and are just making up the numbers.
This is why people are unhappy – the majority didn’t seem to want a Conservative government, but that what they’ve got.
The problem is not with coalitions per se, but with *this* coalition.
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So he thinks people should stop whingeing about plainly factless and misstruthful campaign tactics, perhaps people care about truth? – does he then condone misstruths and lack of accuracy in any election campaigns then?
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Is it coincidence that the sponsored link to this is from the Say No campaign? Good to see the Shropshire Star exercising impartiality and balance.
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Its a shame the Lib Dems are taking such a back seat in this referendum campaign. The non-politicians running the YES campaign have been made to look naive.
They are leaving the multi million pound Tories to win a NO vote by attacking Clegg, exploiting people’s anger at their own Tory policies which Clegg has been forced to defend in coaltion. And telling the most basic lies about what AV means.
Anyone who votes NO because they are angry at Conservative cuts is doing the exact opposite of what is in their interests. If NO wins, the Tories are stronger and the cuts will be worse. If the coalition fails, the Tories will win a majority, and the cuts will be worse.
It is not true some votes are counted again under AV – all votes are counted again, round by round, until someone is supported by 50%. That is more democratic, not less.
It won’t cost any more, the count might take a little longer but if you do it the next day instead of paying double or triple overtime to count at night, it would cost the same.
It is a shame the issue is being muddied with local elections, few people are concentrating or thinking straight – except the ruthless full time Tory spin doctors running the NO campaign, helped by Labour dinosaurs who prefer a two party hegemony.
Depressed of Shrewsbury
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Those who vote will base their decision on their feelings towards a political party. It is inevitable. But this is only one factor in the decision. From whatever point of view people approach Yes/No, voting Yes is the only way to support a continuing debate on our electoral system.
Let us not forget that referendums are not legally binding, so legally the government can ignore the results.
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I voted Yes. But it is not difficult to see why so many of those who voted did not. A consistently aggressive No campaign played its part. But the appeal of first-past-the-post’s unquestionable simplicity was too strong for people to want change to another voting system.
I must correct the comment in which I said that the AV referendum was not legally binding. This was not the case. Sadly, that is academic now.
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