Letter: Pavements should be gritted in winter
Wednesday 2nd March 2011, 6:00AM GMT.
Letter: I wish to express my concern about the decision that pavements should be excluded from winter weather treatments.
This left the most vulnerable in society, the elderly and disabled, house-bound.
I was always taught to respect my elders and the most vulnerable and find the decision not to make their welfare and safety a priority unacceptable.
The principle of the duty of care is a legal requirement to employees, these principles should never be compromised and the cost to provide cannot be used as a reason not to.
Establishments such as local authorities have legal responsibilities to their employees, which I believe should be extended to local residents.
This did not happen during the winter with failure to winter treat pavements for the safety of the residents.
I believe the postal service in our area addressed this issue by stopping delivery for the safety of the postal staff during this time, which I support.
I trust the local authorities will adopt these principles in future winters.
I would like to see the return of winter treatment of all adopted walkways and public pavements so the most vulnerable in society can carry on with their normal lives as much as possible.
LR Tait
Ketley Bank
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Closely followed by paying double your Council Tax to cover the cost of such an unattainable idea.
It is physically impossible to salt/ grit, every road/ pavement/ walkway and has NEVER been the case.
Just get over it and help a neighbour if they cannot get out and about, instead of proposing utterly stupid ideas like the above.
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Spot on Stephen!
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I can clearly see both sides to the argument but think Stephens comments are without thought.
I would like to my experience forward. Having slipped on ice in December and broken my knee, I have undergone an operation, been housebound for three months and now have to undergo comprehensive physio-therapy. I am not seen by the local authority as disabled so cannot use any of the “disabled facilities. By not gritting: the country has lost four months of output. The NHS has had to pay for a consultant to operate on my knee and for the follow up clinics. I have had plaster casts, splints, crutches, walking sticks again all from the NHS.
Why could not someone unemployed or at her HM pleasure be made to go out and grit the roads and pavements. How much would it cost for the salt to do this, not what its cost to pay and treat me, surely? I work hard and contribute to the system, someone who doesn’t contribute, should and this is one way of doing it.
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Theres not even enough salt/man power to salt all roads within an authority, hence mainly A & B roads are salted. How do you expect shropshire to salt every inch of footway/roads they own overnight prior to frost, ice or snowfall. The idea of using unemployed or prison workers is absurd as you would need to undertake training and supervise etc. I imagine unemployed are unlikely to work for free and both groups would claim its against human rights. How about once your knee is better you volunteer to grit the footways?
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I do not know the details of the decision not to treat pathways, I do know that during the cold period in December both my local town and Ludlow town centres were treated and council workers were continually battling against extreme conditions to keep as many paths a clear as possible. At home we cleared our own paths not believing that it is part of the councils remit to provide such a service to every household in extreme weather.
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I agree that this should be done however the cost would be astronomical.
Perhaps it could be paid for by means testing the winter fuel payments for pensioners so that those that are well off don’t recieve it.
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Establishments such as local authorities have legal responsibilities to their employees, which I believe should be extended to local residents.
Next time it snows go for a walk round Shire Hall car park. I guarantee you won’t get far!!
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You mean they don’t grit them or they do? I walk through the Shire Hall grounds twice a day and during the cold spell they were the safest walkways in town. The other pavements in the area were so dangerous that you literally could not use them and pedestrians were forced to walk on the roads – that includes parents with young kids on their way to and from St Giles School…hardly safe in rush hour.
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During the last lot of snow it was not gritted at all.
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Well when I was in Boston USA we had during the night over 10″ snow. Looking out of my Hotel window at 2am-3am I saw workers busy clearing pavements with snow blowers and laying salt . When we left our hotel in the morning walked ing to the sub way and walking around Boston and even walking around their parks what did we find? paths clear and free of ice . More snow came the next night in excess of 10″ again yep they were out there all through the night keeping it clear.
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And salt and fuel will last forever?
Complete waste of resources and proves Americans don’t know how to cut back on it.
If thats true of course….
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oh don’t be so silly. A city like Boston do charge residents higher local taxes which is why they have a low crime rate , plenty of police officers, and plenty of local non skilled realistically paid council employees out there working clearing the pavement’s etc. Silly green type drivel is not most people bags .
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In an area like Boston, this weather happens every year so it makes sense to spend money on those resources. We have a bad winter once in a while, it would not make sense to do the same!
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I’m more concerned that St George’s seems to have had a significant snowfall this morning, according to the caption of the photo….
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haha thats brilliant!
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I can’t recall pavements EVER having been gritted in Telford. Only roads.
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Local authorities have legal indemnity, but be cautious if you decide to clear snow from a public highway or footpath yourself. You can be sued in Court if someone slips and injures themselves.
The court just needs to be persuaded that your efforts in clearing the snow, however well meaning, made the footpath more dangerous and was a cause of an accident.
Falling on uncleared snow is deemed an Act of God. Falling on your badly cleared or partially cleared snow might be cause for a negligence claim.
Britain has the most unsavoury laws towards the Good Samaritan. Members of the public who have provided emergency first aid at a road accident have been successfully sued for worsening the injuries.
Britain is the only country in Europe where it is _not_ a criminal offence to pass by an injured motorist without offering assistance.
Charitable lot, us Brits! Victor Meldrew should be our patron saint!
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lets hope then that all claim lawyers slip on the snow and injurer themselves
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Urban myth. You will not be sued for gritting the path outside your house. How are you at risk for making the pavement less icy.
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Swans can’t really snap a mans arm with its wing either….another urban myth.
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If it’s an urban myth then it’s one that is believed by ministers of state and the clerk to Ludlow Town Council.
The clerk is an experienced lawyer and the former solicitor to South Shropshire District Council.
Last year, she gave a warning to town residents not to clear snow from public footpaths and highways because of the risk of being sued if someone slips on our handiwork.
And this exchange from 2004 in the Lords reported by the BBC…
Labour ex-minister Lord Dubs said: “Something I have done for years every time there has been snow is leaving me liable to legal action.”
Lord Davies of Oldham said: “No householder is at all responsible, providing they do not touch the pavement, which is owned by the local authority.”
“If people completely and utterly and totally clear away all snow and return the pavement to the situation it was in before the snow landed, they have done an excellent job.”
But he added: “The moment they address the issue of the pavement with a view to improving things, which may lead to a deterioration, it may be their action that makes them culpable.”
“If it is done in a less than complete manner and leaves ice, which is more dangerous than the original covering of snow, it may not necessarily be the local authority that is responsible but the householder for having dealt with the pavement.”
So there’s your answer, ph7.. The law on clearing snow might be an ass, but it’s not an urban myth.
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In Germany each household is responsible for clearing that paths in front of their property. Some choose to pay or the landlord arranges for a ‘Winterdienst’ service to do it for them. When these services are not available, good spirited communities make sure it is done for the old and infirm. It works and has always worked and reduces the cost to the taxpayer.
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HA!!!! Ive never heard such a stupid proposal in all my life! You dont seriously expect 1000′s of employees to be on call to be at your beckon call to clear the way to the shops do you??
Instead of expecting the council to wipe your nose for you, prehaps you could form a local group within your street. Arm them all with snow shovels and have one of them watch out the window for a flake of snow fall.
Oh and do be mindfull not to shovel the snow from the path into the road or else you’ll find yourself liable to a claim.
Bring back the Monster Raving Looney Party, prehaps their ideas weren’t so bad after all!
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We could get the council highway office workers to get out on the streets to muck in, instead of planning more road disruption for the coming year or alternatively they could spend the money for traffic lights on something useful, like peoples’ safety.
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You think roads would be safer without traffic lights?
Cool.
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I must pay credit then to oswestry council, who did make an effort to treat the pavements of the town and surrounding streets.
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When was that? 1952?!
Oswestry Council haven’d existed for how long now? Three years? It is now the County wide Shropshire Council who deserve the praise.
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Heres a novel idea for you….. The pavements are actually gritted when a gritter drives down the road.. What did you think happened? The grit just bounced back on the road… The problem is there arent enough people walking on that grit to make it work – Grit a road and no one drives on it, the grit is essentially useless!
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So it’s the public’s fault for not walking on the pavement behind the gritters at 2am in the morning. Thanks for clearing that up.
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As I type I have Scandinavian relatives visiting. To say that our traditional winter plight (in what they view as frost) is amusing, is an understatment.
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You don’t need our pavements gritted, you just need them resurfaced. Ours have been done over the last couple of weeks and are crumbling already probably because the pavements weren’t prepared properly (straight over patches on bobbly moss etc) and it has pretty much been slapped on, we have grit aplenty so we don’t even need to worry about salt!
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For the last few winters, I personally spread grit onto the pavement outside our property. We live in an area with a quite a few elderly people, so I thought of this as a ‘civic duty’.
Until this winter, and for the following reasons:
One elderly lady who passed me by whilst I spreading the salt did not even return a simple ‘hello’ (incidently, ALL the youngsters I speak to are chatty and friendly, but that’s another story); not an ounce of thanks.
Other residents – including more able bodied elderly – don’t bother to salt the pavement (my poor daughter sliding all the way to her school is just as fragile as an elderly person). So why should I bother?
Perhaps its a little hypocritical given my pig-headed ‘protest’ this year, but I’d be quite happy following some US states where you have a legal responsibility to clear the pavement outside your home or face a fine.
Begging for the Council to do it for you is still a state handout, and something I’m not happy to pay for via an increase in Council Tax. Get a shovel and do it yourself.
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Spot on. Couldn’t agree more.
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Local Authorities in Scotland manage to grit all roads and pavements. They also provide grit bins in streets so that residents can spread grit themselves. However, cold icy weather can be guaranteed every year up North (not only in Winter!). The local authorities in Scotland also have a legal requirement to grit all main thoroughfairs.
I’d be happy if the Council would grit the main road loop through my estate but all they do is drive into the estate turn round and drive back out leaving 3/4′s of the loop ungritted.
A few grit bins would also help
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You can request a grit bin from the council, I’ve been looking into it for the road in which I live.
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since when did the taxpayer become responsible for your pavement outside your house, get out in the snow with a shovel and DIY – stop expecting my taxes to pay for your private utility
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WHAT ABOUT OUT TAXES?
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Have you considered who owns the pavement?
Please think before typing.
For the record I am in favour of homeowners / occupiers being responsible for clearing snow from the pavement outside their home. But on the flip side there is a responsibility for the council (and therefore taxpayer) to maintain the pavement. Goes both ways.
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I haven’t got a pavement outside my house, does that mean i’m let off or do i have to do someone elses
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Well if you haven’t got one outside your house of course you cant do it, but you could help by doing a neighbours be a good neighbour, love thy neighbour.
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For goodness sake, what a silly self-important letter.
Of course there will be disruption when it snows, and typically the British people can’t cope with a few inches of snow. People have to adapt to the minor disruptions and not expect others to do it all for them so that they may carry on regardless in their “normal lives”.
Be proactive, ask your neighbours for support in getting a grit bin installed in your neighbourhood. Put things into perspective, see how you can help those less able than yourself, be neighbourly and lastly….stop moaning!
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Andrew Finch, I think we must have been in Boston about the same time.
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With cuts in Council funding we can’t expect the council to grit pavements it’s too unrealistic and vastly expensive.
The main priority has to be to keep main roads/bus routes open,why not request a grit bin from the council and able bodied people rally round and throw a bit down with a shovel,most people have a shovel in their shed,garage etc.
A bit of WW2 spirit is what’s needed.
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Not that easy to get a salt bin sited, may be cuts but we still pay council tax have not had a reduction have we?? although it is to be frozen so we should still receive the same level of service.
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Why not get those on benefits and/or seeking employment to do some clearance work, it’s always more satisfying when you’ve something to show for your earnings.
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I still can’t get over the post stopping this year. In the late 1960s we carried on delivering in the really thick snow. The PO employed masses of students and there were two or even three deliveries a day prior to Xmas. We put grips on our shoes/boots and were young and fit so no problem
Later I always found getting around a nightmare with young children however, as the snow ploughs shovelled the snow off the roads creating massive mounds of snow on the verges which often stayed for weeks on end. When walking/pushing a pram/pushchair on the pavement was nigh impossible, actually gaining access to the road was too.
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