Woman in Shifnal bar hat ban row
Tuesday 7th December 2010, 11:45AM GMT.
Pensioner Patricia Sheldon thought she would round off a day’s Christmas shopping in the freezing cold by retiring to the warmth of a Shropshire pub and having a drink.
But she was stunned when staff at the Odfellows Inn, in Shifnal, told her to remove her expensive fur hat before they would serve her.
Mrs Sheldon refused – and on being told the pub operated a strict “no hats” policy, she and her 64-year-old husband Jim promptly left in disgust.
The couple, of Compton Road, Wolverhampton, have now vowed never to use the bar in Market Place again unless the policy is either revoked or enforced “more sensibly”.
“It’s absolutely ridiculous,” said 60-year-old Mrs Sheldon.
“There were only two other people in the Odfellows when we went in so it’s not as if they were trying to thin out the crowd.
“I love that hat. It looks very elegant and smart. Quite how it could make someone think I was some kind of hoody or would-be thug is beyond me.
“I know some pubs have policies about hats designed to weed out people who cause trouble and want to disguise themselves but surely there should be some common sense in the way they are enforced?”
Matthew Jones, manager of the Odfellows Inn, confirmed there was a “no hats” policy in place.
He said: “We can’t just stipulate the ban applies to everyone except middle-aged women. We can’t differentiate on style grounds, either.”
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Why does this lady feel the need to wear a hat indoors? It’s a pub, not a church!
OdFellows, being a popular place, can get pretty crowded, having a fairly narrow space along the length of it.
I could do without someone shoving their somewhat oversized hat in my face while I’m trying to get a drink at the bar – what next, insisting on the right to carry an open umbrella?
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Some pubs are ridiculous, they wonder why the pub trade is dying! why can’t people differentiate between a hoodie/baseball hat and a more elegant hat? hope the place closes down due to lack of trade if this is their attitude!!
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I agree, there has been problems before with this pub before.
The last time they wouldn’t even let a toddler have a meal with it’s parents and the Manager wrote a horrid article about it saying people with children are not welcome and will be asked to leave the premises straight away.
Im not sure who they think they are.
I shall never go in there again and will make sure all my friends and family don’t either.
Attitude, Attitide, Attitude at that place….
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I think you need to read the article again. Because at no stage does the Manager say that “people with children are not welcome and will be asked to leave the premises straight away”.
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There have never ben any problems with this pub. You clearly did not read, or more likely understand the review earlier this year.
As for never going there again….GOOD. I’m sure the place doesn’t need customers like you!
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Rules are rules dear man.
As for hoping they close down? well, “they wonder why the pub trade is dying!”….woops!
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I remember a few years back in the summer walking into the White Hart in Ironbridge. Just in front of me was a young girl who turned around and shouted to her father in a broad American accent “Hey pops you can’t come in here with a baseball hat we are not welcome”.
Obviously tourists, a warm Shropshire welcome for them then.
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There are plenty of pubs and bars where hats aren’t allowed. I’m more outraged about the woman wearing a fur hat. I would have thrown red paint on it rather than just asked her to remove it.
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I’m only doing my job..I’m only doing my job..I’m only doing my job..I’m o
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Fair play to the bar for sticking to their guns.
If they are going to apply a rule for younger generations (which is why i presume its in place), then all generations should respect it.
Rules are rules and should be applied to all and not to certain people no matter how loud they protest
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Couldn’t agree more. Pub rules are pub rules, if you would like the hospitality of the landlord then follow them.
You can’t have one rule for one and one for another, after all it just a pub, not the house of commons.
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Well said. I agree and am aged 63
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I will add to this and I couldn’t agree more too.
The woman should be ashamed, it is only common courtesy to remove your hat whilst indoors anyway and as my mother would say – ‘you will not feel the benefit when you go outside’
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I didn’t realise that pubs were doing so well that they can afford to turn customers away?
Perhaps everyone should boycott this pub and support more understanding landlords elsewhere?
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perhaps you are a bit silly??
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I used to go the the Odfellows fairly regularly with groups from work. After reading the Shropshire Star dining out review (http://www.shropshirestar.com/lifestyle/2010/05/17/meal-review-odfellows-market-place-shifnal-tf11-9au/) and more importantly the Odfellow’s response, we’ve stopped going. There was a recent idea that we’d go back again. I wear a cap on cold days and don’t want to be embarrassed by stupid rules so due to the reaction to this poor lady’s hat, we’ll not be going there at any point in the near future.
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After reading the recommended i too will never set foot in the place
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Yes, i agree Andy & Tuff, the article was awful, the Manger is terrible, his response was truly digusting not to mention discriminating…
I shall never spend a penny in there ever again.
They are rubbing people up the wrong way and better be careful as they may loose all trade with an attitude that stinks that bad!
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The only thing that stunk in that restaurant review, Bear, was the soiled nappy of a bloody 20 month old baby.
In a pub.
For Christs Sake.
It’s actually great that the Odfellows manager should discriminate against those who see fit to enter a public house with a toddler. Many patrons visiting a pub do not want their relaxed meal or quiet pint disturbed by squawking ankle biters.
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Was the child also wearing a hat?
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well i disagree and feel the manager was totally correct in what he was saying.
If you had a 20 month old, would you not ring beforehand to check that such a pub would have facilties? Not all do because they cater for ‘Adult’ audiences.
The food review was a load of rubbish.
I’ve never been to the pub but I certainly won’t be boycotting the place and will have to make a visit one of these days
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I fully support the decision of the bar management – in these troubled times they were no doubt worried that the hat could have concealed an explosive device.
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Eh… it did, Mrs Sheldon………
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Thanks for that – I nearly choked on my coffee : )
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Love it!!!
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Any drinking establishment has a right to refuse entry or service.
I also hope that the hat is faux fur. I can’t believe people still wear real fur these days.
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Am sure the hat was man made fibres.
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Its a rubbish hat anyway
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It’s all very well and good taking the mick, but if that’s the pub policy then that’s it and people who want to drink in there should respect that or find somewhere else to go. Also, why did the lady even need to wear the hat in doors, that’s just rude!! Fact is, that in refusing to remove her hat, the lady was acting in a ‘would-be thug’ kind of way.
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totally agree with you.
rules are rules most bars that have a dress code display it on the entry or near to it, so if you enter you agree to abide by those rules.
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It is a generation thing. First the lady might have wanted to keep out the cold. Secondly ladies have always been able to wear hats indoors for church , formal lunches, and wedding receptions. I am sure she was not going to be in the pub for long anyway. A hat always ruins a hair do so best leave it on, not on a chair where it might get lifted!
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Doubt the hat would have got lifted..more likely shot,just to make sure!
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I agree with you Jennifer older people these days can do and say anything they like the whole world owes them
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why wear a hat indoors?
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Just one of those quaint things that are traditions in ladies polite society! If I had a hat on it would flatten my hair so I would prefer to leave it on until I could get to a mirror. Ladies can be vain whatever age.
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Ridiculous! I’m a bit vain but even I think that is ridiculous. Rules are rules in the end.
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[I’m more outraged about the woman wearing a fur hat. I would have thrown red paint on it rather than just asked her to remove it.]
Are you that opposed to people wearing man made fibres Grey?
There must be a lot of people covered in red paint round your way!
[Fake fur is made from several materials including blends of acrylic and modacrylic polymers derived from coal, air, water, petroleum and limestone. Unlike natural real fur, these materials can take a long time to break down (anywhere from 500 to 1,000 years]
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Eva why do you think it’s fake fur? It says “an expensive fur hat” no mention of fake.
You can’t have one rule for one and one rule for another, good on Oddfellows for having the same rules for everyone!
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Would the management of the Odfellows have asked a Sikh to remove his Turban. I doubt it for fear of being branded racist and being draged through courts.
Yet they feel it necessary to ask this elderly woman to remove her hat. I appreciate the reasons behind the hat ban but have the management never heard or know of the word discretion. A little bit of common sence and discretion here would have saved face and saved lost business. The pub trade is tough these days. I’m glad they can afford to turn customers away.
I for one wouldn’t set foot in the Odfellows if i still lived in the area.
Odfellows seems an apt name for the pub and management
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What complete tosh. You are a buffoon man.
Why are you playing a ‘race’ card?.
A turban is part of a persons religion. Something that you cannot discriminate against. It is NOT a fashion accessory.
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I am inclined to agree with an earlier reply to your post. Utter tosh. A head covering worn out of religious duty is not comparable to a fashion accessory or headgear for protection from the elements. I groan with despair at some of the utterly stupid and ill thought out comments one can read in these blogs.
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Brian, stupid argument.
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Sorry not a stupid arguement. Headgear is headgear, be it a hat , a crash helmet, A turban or whatever. The point I was trying to make is discretion should have been used by the management.
Lets not get into the race thing as I’ve known and had some great seikh friends. I should have known someone would have jumped on that bandwagon!
How about if the Queeen or some other memeber of the royal family were to go into the Odfellows for a pint. WOuld the management as her or them to remove their hats. I’m sure they wouldn’t.
Hats have been worn in public plcases, pubs shops etc for many years.
The removal of the hat regime has come about because of young hoodlums wearing hoodie’s to hide their identities when they are up to no good.
Like I said a bit of common sence and discretion by the management would have gone a long way
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It is consider bad manners/disrespectful to your host to wear a hat indoors. She might consider it looks “elegant and smart” others may not. Personally, I’m with F. Dibnah on this one!
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I can understand any establishment not allowing any headress that covers the face, but a no hats policy seems rather silly.
As we are now entering the festive season, will they now refuse to serve everyone who wears a santas hat for example.
Rules are for the guidance of the wise and strict aherance of fools.
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“I can understand any establishment not allowing any headress that covers the face, but a no hats policy seems rather silly”. Hmmm, I wonder what you might be implying? Are you perchance suggesting that a veiled face conceals a dangerous person? In this country, based on recorded crime, I would be interested to know what evidence you have to back up such a cheap and ill thought out statement. Behave!
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If you weren’t so full of your own political correctness you would be aware that the banning of hats, veils, fullface motorcycle helmets, burkas, ski masks, niqabs (or for that matter Tesco carrier bags with eye slits cut in them) is common policy in many establishments, especially where CCTV surveillance is used.
Many licensing authorities now insist on CCTV and a ban on headwear in licensed premises.
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No actually, that never een entered my thoughts, I was actually thinking of full face motorbike helmets and balacalavas, people like you only have one train of thought and constantly look for a racist comment in anything. Try expanding your mind rather than having this short sighted view.
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The word headress suggests you were not referring to crash helmets or balaclavas. I have yet to see anyone successfully drink in a pub with a full face helmet on so suspect your protestations of misunderstood innocence are a red herring. If (unlikely) I have misunderstood your original comment then the other point I would make is that we are already overly legislated against. Bans on headgear of any description without a good rationale are just one further step towards a rather unpleasant state.
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@ Simon
My dictionary (sorry, it’s a Collins English one) defines head dress as “any head covering, esp. an ornate one or one denoting a rank or occupation”.
You seem to be using a different dictionary, or perhaps you have a special gift that allows you to look into the minds of others making comments on here?
I for one would not wish to drink in the sort of establishment that needs CCTV and the consequent ban on wearing headGEAR, which was I believe the topic under discussion
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The likes of Simon are always too busy turning peoples innocent comments into something that was never there in the first place. Simply narrow minded.
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I have a hat like that….Well actually it’s not really a hat, it’s the cat’s bed. You can buy ‘em for a few quid in any big pet store. You can get different coloured ones too. that woman’s cat bed – er sorry – hat is a rather boring colour. If a pub (or anyhwere else for that matter) has rules, why does she feel that they don’t happen to apply to her. And how does the word ‘Pensioner’ fit into all this?
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SHAME on the woman for wearing a FUR hat in the first place. Well done oddfellows !!
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Why would you want to wear a hat indoors? Those are the pub’s rules so she should abide by lem. There is a pub in Ludlow that has banned hats, and I think it is a sign of good manners to remove a hat when inside.
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I agree – i thought it was good manners not to wear a hat indoors.
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How much did the Star pay her for this story?
All this over a hat? And her reasoning? “I love the hat”? Ha Ha!
I love my dog, and if a place has a no dogs policy, i dont cry about it and run to the papers.
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Pure vanity. The rules are the same for everyone, regardless of whether the hat looks “elegant and smart”.
I’ve never had any problems in Oddfellows, I’m sure the staff would not have been rude to her when asking her to comply with their regulations, and it’s not like there’s a shortage of pubs to visit in Shifnal if you want to go somewhere else.
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You’re very lucky then Eleanor!
Like many places some staff members are very good and polite, while others are rude and ‘jumped up’, believing in their own self importance (you know who you are!)
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Do you really want a dead polar bear in your face whilst sipping ur ale fair play to the manager Just because people get to 65 plus they think they are exempt from the house rules
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Looking at this hat brought back a memory back in 1982 walking up pride hill when I used to smoke and dropping fag ends was not frowned upon I flicked the end of my ciggi away, the wind caught it and it landed on a similar style hat which was on an elderly lady’s head. 10 minutes later I saw the same lady walking out of m&s with smoke coming from her hat . As is it real fur or isn’t it who cares.
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Easy meat for the press this one and we see plenty of examples in today’s media on the same theme, such as 85 year old asked to prove age to buy a bottle of sherry –“ Ha Ha” we all laugh at store policy and incompetence in being able to judge some ones age. But in most cases these types of things are often introduced for good reason, the Oddfellows have introduced this rule for a reason – therefore to allow some to keep their headgear on and insist others remove it just makes a mockery of the whole thing.
Better way for all to deal with this, would be to question the Landlord/Lady – as to why did you introduce this policy? And what benefits are you hoping to realise.
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is it that cold you need a hat.
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Who does this woman think she is? It’s a rule for everyone & that should be respected or drink somewhere else.
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Why ban any hat? When has a hat ever hurt anyone? Ban people yes, but to ban anyone who wears a hoodie or baseball cap is absurd.
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Well done Odfellows. Some people believe that rules do not apply to them because they are older or perhaps present themselves in a smarter way and that rules should only apply to the ‘young rif-raf’ of this world. Would this lady be quite so unhappy about the rule if for instance she had been enjoying a drink when a dozen rowdy young lads with (heaven forbid) baseball caps or hoodies came in? i’m sure she would be relieved to find them ousted. I’m sure Odfellows are gutted she isn’t returning mind…
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yes, a pub can introduce any rule it likes – question is whether its sensible? Would you be happy to abide by a pub rule which said no-one can where anything red? No, becuase it would be a stupid rule, just like this about hats.
Go ahead, landlord and ruin your own business, seems like you’re doing it anyway!
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Well quoted Shropshire Star, it certainly is an “offending hat”. The wearing of fur should be banned in public for good.
How this woman can proudly stand in her living room with the skin of a defenceless creature on her head, which has more than likely been boiled from its living body, is beyond me.
its no longer the dark ages!
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My late wife who had lost her hair through chemotherapy wore a hat to places and she was refused in quite a few pubs…. good job i was not there at the time.
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Sorry to hear that common sense didn’t prevail in your circumstances Bill.
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That, I have to say, is outrageous.
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I agree.
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My mother in law’s hair used to be that big back in the 1980s.
It was the Mrs Thatcher power dressing era, big shoulder pads, big handbag, big hair etc. Zilch empathy of course with anyone who had failed to marry a rich man.
#1[I could do without someone shoving their somewhat oversized hat in my face while I’m trying to get a drink at the bar – what next, insisting on the right to carry an open umbrella?]
Would my mother in law have had to remove her head Peter? I wonder if there isn’t a glimmer of anti-ladies getting in a chaps way going on here? ;)
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What is it with the Shropshire Star and Oddfellows? Do they have an anti-agenda against the pub?
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What if the lady was wearing a Burka?, the Landlord would not have dared to ask her to take it off, or ask her to leave. this is not playing the race card , this is fact.
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I doubt if a lady wearing a burka would be frequenting a wine bar in the first place…
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A burka would suggest a devout Muslim. A devout Muslim woman would not be seen inside a pub. “This is not playing the race card” – if this is not playing the race card then I am not currently typing! Fashion accesories such as a fur hat do not bear comparison to clothing worn for religious or cultural reasons.
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Odfellows are right to ask this woman to remove her hat, to wear it indoors is a sign of bad manners, I frequent Odfellows regularly and have no problem with the staff or managers. If it is the pub rule to have no hats then so be it, more to the point I have no sympathy with this lady, my only feeling is fior the poor animal who may have suffered as a result of having its fur made in to a hat !
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Despite the claim that “We prefer short comments that include no external website links”, Reply No 7 contains a direct link to the poor Dining Review published by the S Star in May 2010. A second stab ! Now the same pub is given OTT bad publicity by the Star for imposing a ban which is for the benefit of us all. Allowing one exception just leads to many others trying to challenge the rule. I have never been into the pub but I do wonder if it is being victimised by the Star.
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The web site says “prefer” – there are obviously circumstances where it makes sense to allow relevant links, and this is one of them.
Personally I thought the reply from the Odfellows was excellent and reflected well on the establishment.
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Graham, I think you’ll find that is an internal link.
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I bet the hat has nothing to do with it. Town pubs don’t welcome old people as they spoil their image, don’t drink until they fall over, don’t start a fight and throw up all over the police on the way to the nick. This is England!
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no strict policy is there for everyone. why do older people moan at younger people for wearing hoodies and then moan for being asked to take off their hat some people hay. Is it me or older people haven’t got any manners who cares if it is expensive hat. why did the Shropshire star publish this it is very stupid
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WELL DONE TO THE BAR STAFF!! you cant have one rule for one and one for the other.
And shock of shocks..she used the word “Hoody”..when will people stop this connection between someone wearing a ‘Hoody’ and world war 3.
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There is a lot you people do not understand. Odfellows is an over 25s Wine Bar, and therefore people that are over this age enjoy visiting a warm pub with a great atmospbhere. Rules that have been in place for years are there to ensure the pub remains a great. Yes, there is a recession and pubs have been suffering, but I can undoubtably tell you that when I head down to Odfellows over the weekend, it is defintely by far one of the busiestpubs or in fact THE BUSIEST pub in Shifnal. It is a very successful pub. The proposturious person, namely ‘bear’ I believe who is stated that children are asked to leave, my child and other children visit the pub regularly and are made very welcome. Ok, so this ‘lovely’ fashion hat was asked to be taken off, but you simply can not have a no hat policy and just pick as choose who takes their hat off. Picking and chooses in my eyes is a form of discrimination, not asking a woman to comply to the pub rules. And to write to the paper about a hat, I wish I had that much free time to waste on my hands!!!
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Apparently you do.
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no unfortuantely I do not have time to call the Shropshire Star and have them pop round for a report, photo and a cuppa :-)
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At the age of 45 im shaven headed due to hair loss, i wear a well known sports brand hoodies. This woman dares tarnish me and others as thugs just because of the way we look.
Well madam you are nothing but a snob. Iam so pleased you were turned away.
Besides which, iam gobsamcked you lowered yourself to drinking in a public house.
Sorry but Shifnal does not yet have a branch of Harrod’s or Selfidges for you to have coffee and a cucumber sandwich just yet.
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There can’t be much going on in Shropshire at the moment.
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I love it how people take the Shropshire Stars’ publishing as the word of God. I never realised that newspapers were now the most factual things around. People that stop going somewhere because of what they read in the paper, even if there own personal visits had been satisfactory, is quite frankly pathetic.
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Typical snob thinking she should be excused from rules because her hat was expensive… It is a great pub which I am happy to say I go to regularly and I am glad they have a dress code and don’t encourage children running around everywhere it’s one of the few places I really enjoy without hearing kids screaming or people fighting I applaud them for sticking to there guns…
I am sure if this lady has a no shoes policy in her house she wouldn’t let me walk over her cream carpet in a pair of jimmy choos just because they were expensive and sophisticated…. I think not
I will continue to support odfellows
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Their guns….not there!
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Everytime I’ve been to the Odfellows, the fire is always burning and glowing, and keeping the place warm…there is usually barely a need for a coat most times, let a lone a ‘hat’?!
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Why would she wear a hat indoors? Maybe she wanted to wear her hat because she likes wearing her hat?
Seriously people what’s the matter with you … ?
“it’s rude / bad manners to wear a hat indoors!” Are you really so sensitive that somebody wearing a hat offends you? Get a grip. ITS A HAT!
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Yes it is bad manners
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Yeah but what if the pub was like, on fire and the fireman came and, like, had his helmet on, and what if he was, like, Hindu or Bhudda and didn’t like fur unless it was slaughtered humanely, or if his hat was from, like, Aldi !
What then !?
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why on earth does she think the rule shouldn’t apply to her?? how could the rule ever be enforced if the people she thinks they are aiming it at come in, are asked to remove their hats and see her wearing hers? and what kind of person goes to the newspapers about it????? very odd lady!!!!
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As a motorcyclist I have no objection to being asked to remove my ‘hat’ before paying for petrol or other services and always take off my helmet before entering a shop, having parked outside. It’s basic security not to mention courtesy towards those who are serving me. Granted that there is a difference in headgear between a motorcycle helmet and a fluffy hat, but rules are rules. If you don’t like the rules, don’t play the game.
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The one thing that I can’t understand about this though. Why would you need a no hat policy?
Are hats a serious problem in Shifnal? Are there gangs of people going around intimidating locals with their hats?
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To give Little Hitlers their moment of power, although I’ve seen certain staff in there bottle it when the customer is like something from the boxing ring, so it does end up being one rule for one and one rule for another!
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I would love to no who you are ‘Dull Amigo’. You clearly have it in for the jumped up staff and little hitlers that supposedly work in the Pub! And yet you still drink in there and clearly watch their behaviour when there ‘bottling’ certain situatuions. Why would somebody drink in such a pub?
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Hats are a very serious problem in Shifnal actually. I was recently attacked by three elderly ladies wearing a fez, trilby and top hat. One on each – not all wearing three hats. I managed to knock the Fez off the one old woman and she calmed down considerably. It was the hats that caused the antisocial aggresive behavour. I have heard other stories of similar incidents in Shifnal – one even involved an elderly gentleman in a’bearskin’ hat.
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no hat policies are to prevent anyone who wants to cause trouble from hiding their faces. however if you want to enforce this then the rule must apply to everyone!! if someone walked in and they were asked to remove a hat whilst there is an old lady in the corner wearing one you dont have a leg to stand on!
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Heaven forbid that afro hairstyles comeback into fashion and lots of big hair people are on the rampage in Shifnal.
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50 plus comments about a silly old woman and her rediculous hat and maybe 10 comments about the young soldier who lost his legs saving his mates.
This woman should take a step back and think about whats really important. Who does she think she is?
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A silly story Mark, but we all feel relaxed commenting on it.
Perhaps a lot of people are less comfortable when it comes to the soldier’s story?
Perhaps they feel that his young life has been wasted in a pointless war, and that his bravery and skills should have been used more productively?
That our troops in Afghanistan aren’t defending us, but are being squandered as cannon fodder in yet another pointless American military adventure in a particularly revolting part of the world?
Perhaps people feel happier making comments where they’re not going to be accused of treason when they question the sacrifice of so many young British lives?
If only people would drop the mawkish flag waving and accept that once again our young men and women are being sacrificed on the altar of politicians’ vanity and corruption – then treated as an embarassment when they’ve suffered physical or mental injury.
There’s not really that much difference between the corrupt little piece of dung jokingly referred to as “The President of Afghanistan” and the western leaders who put him into power.
I’m just grateful that my children are probably too old to join the army – otherwise I’d nail their feet to the floor rather than let them go out there.
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You are spot on Mark…. this is a sad reflection of a selfish society…. “it’s all about me” is really annoying.
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Turn it back into Boos. You could do what you liked there until 2am!
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I think quiet honestly this is pathetic, surely you’d take your hat off anyway due to fact it is not only rude but disrespectful. Its the pubs rules and regulations that the strict no hats rule must be obeyed due to security reasons. You should not sterotype this rule to ‘some kind of hoody or would-be thug’ as the same rule applies to everyone.
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My friends wife is currently wearing hats when out because of losing her hair through being seriously from a life threatening illness.
Given these circumstances, if my friends wife was to visit the Oddfellows Inn, would the management also refuse to serve her because of her wearing her hat because of her serious illness she is currently suffering from and remove her from the premises?
Or would manager Matthew Jones take pleasure in humiliating my friends ill wife by asking her to remove her hat also refusing to serve her?
I await Matthew Jones’s reponse to this with great interest whilst hoping he would have the sensitivity and initiative to do the correct and right thing in this case!!!
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i think in circumstances such as that people would use compassion when the situation was explained…. however that wasnt the case here!! why should the rules not be followed by this woman??
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thats 2 pubs in shifnal im not drinking in now, because of management the other is the wheatsheef or tap house
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Still got plenty to choose from though.
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I was kind of identifying with your comment Rob. I too feel angry at the waste and ruination of a young healthy body and I am sure if the clock could be turned back his parents would choose his health over the medal any day.
My father says he cannot believe he so desperately wanted to be a pilot in the Raf in WW11. As it was he became a navigator and luckily is still here but of the people he knew who died most were in flying accidents, not killed in action. Poor quality old planes and inexperience killed them.
I thought again about this lady and wrongly imagined her to be old enough to have been in WW11! As it is she’s not really a pensioner, age wise by todays standards so quite frankly the pub is right, wearing a white furry hat is definitely not doing her a favour!
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Simon. The BURCA is not a religious dress, the woman only wear it because their men make them. This is fact, unless you can prove otherwise.
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Well, you can prove anything with facts, can’t you?
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John
Burka (or burkha or burqa): “a long, loose garment covering the whole body, worn in public by some Muslim women”.(Oxford English Dictionary). The definition is therefore definately a garment worn by women of a specified religion. Now whether they wear it out of choice, through cultural tradition or pressure from men is of course debateable, and as far as my earlier contribution is concerned, is also irrelevant.
I think I this challenges the “fact” you so confidently asserted. I hope you now feel a little more informed and also able to spell the garment properly.
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What a fabulous hat. She looks very regal, perhaps royalty actually frequents Shifnal?
Wouldnt have put her as a pensioner..wow…
as for this debate, well, what a bad show Odfellows – you’re very odd indeed….
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It is very clear by the amount of negative posts towards this lady and the defense of the pub’s policy that it shows how bad people’s attitude have become over the years towards social etiquette and the subsequent leading onto good manners and behavior.
To preserve a ladies modesty, hat’s worn inside a dwelling was acceptable where the lady was unable to make herself look presentable. It is very embarrassing for a lady to remove her hat and have her hair displaced without the means to correct it. It has got nothing to do with being vain, this is where peoples attitude have deteriorated over the years to use the argument of a lady being vain in her looks. Regardless of who the lady is, she is allowed to maintain a decent modicum of look and if removing her hat prevents her maintaining that modicum of look then she would be allowed to carry on wearing that hat. Again, the attitude of people here shows how much British good standards and manners have dropped over the years.
As for the ‘no headdress’ policy’. This was introduced a few years back at the request of the local police authorities to be able to have clear views of a persons head when CCTV is in operation at those facilities. It was designed to capture those who would cause trouble. Note, CCTV in operation signs must be present in clear view for the policy to be enforceable. Yes it is the right of the publican to refuse entry based on the policy but also importantly, common sense plays role which based on some posts, the publican clearly has none.
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This commentary is sensational. Without a doubt Peter Kay should use it all as a new one man show. People would be talking about it as the first seminal, ground-breaking social media based performance.
rb December 8, 2010 at 10:03
….as my mother would say – ‘you will not feel the benefit when you go outside’.
Brilliant stuff. Can we have a comments section opened on questions such as ‘hoodie yobs ate my cat and made it into a hat and it was worn on X-Factor’?
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Simon. I said that the BURKHA [sorry] is not a religious dress.It is an oppressive garment worn by the woman when they get married, this is done to prevent other men looking at her, and possible talking to the wearer, [you try talking to a woman who is wearing one and you will see what the husband has to say ,as happened in Shrewsbury Town centre some weeks ago.
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What is the old editorial adage? I believe it’s never let the truth get in the way of a good story. For me that means being prepared to check and double check what is reported, and don’t believe any claim in a newspaper letters page unless it is backed by substantiating evidence.
The story of what is alleged to have happened in Shrewsbury town centre I will take with a pinch of salt if I’m being generous but frankly I don’t believe it. Such stories follow a theme. We don’t read similar claims of ginger people are all rude, or I said hello to a Catholic woman and her husband shouted at me. Try questioning what you’re told John rather than accepting merely because you’ve read it. Life can then be quite enlightening.
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And why pray tell do you need to capitalise your verious spellings of burkha?
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Or even various (my typo)
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Sorry Error, as Simon will point out, possible should be possibly.
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