Letter: What exactly are the rules for buying rail tickets?

Wednesday 20th October 2010, 6:00AM BST.

Letter: What exactly are the rules for buying rail tickets?

Letter: A few months ago, London Midland, the train company which I use frequently, brought in a scheme which stated that passengers must purchase their ticket before they got on to the train.

At the time I wasn’t aware of the scheme, so when I attempted to purchase my ticket en route, I was warned, and told next time I was liable to face a £20 penalty fee.

Since then I’ve adhered to that rule – yet I’ve noticed since that some London Midlands conductors seem to have forgotten all about it, and many times the people sitting near me on the train happily pay for their ticket on board.

I have no problem with that (Lord knows I did it often enough) and I’m certainly not blaming those people in any way, but it would be nice if someone from London Midland could reply to this letter and clarify the situation for me.

Patrick Campbell

Wellington


  1. 1
    Joanne Garner

    This has puzzled me for a while! I have seen the notices but many people are still buying their tickets on the train. I don’t understand what the problem is with it anyway? Maybe the conductors have better things to do? £20 is a lot of money though, a small surcharge I can accept.

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  2. 2
    eva land

    You’ll be lucky!

    I had to attend a funeral in Kent a week or so back. We went and collected our online tickets from the machine the night before just in case there was a queue in the morning. I asked the railway employee collecting tickets at the barrier if this ticket would take us all the way there as implied by the print out itinery but he said that tube trains are not trains? and we would have to buy a separate ticket for that part of the journey.I was shocked as I felt this was not made clear but he was adamant we would have to buy a separate ticket from Euston to London Bridge.

    In all we asked about four different railway people and none really knew for definate.
    My sister was convinced that we could use our ticket for the whole journey as she had done so herself a few months earlier and she was correct as it turned out.

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  3. 3
    Si

    The scheme covers the area controlled by London Midland. Other train companies have their own schemes approved and encouraged by the government. It has been around in birmingham since the mid nineties I believe to encourage people to buy their ticket before bording where a ticket office is available or a ticket machine. Since privatisation and stations became open plan the railway has lost thousands in ticketless travel. However, they are partly to blame. Not staffing stations or providing ticket machines encourages people to travel for free. If the guard then comes along and asks them to pay they get a mouthful and as reported recently at Telford, can be attacked. Several refuse to check tickets between Telford and Wellington because they do not want this aggro. The train companies therefore need to work with the police to eradicate this anti-social behaviour. Penalty fare inspectors do travel along the network but less frequently since staff were made redundant in birmingham.

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  4. 4
    Grim Reaper

    I think you will find that the implementation of this scheme depends on the ticket facilities which exist (or which don’t exist) at the station where you board your train. If there is a ticket office open and manned when you reach the station, then you should use it. If you don’t, then you run the risk of having to pay a surcharge when you then buy your ticket on the train.

    Exceptions to this would be if the platform machine is out of order, ticket office is closed unexpectedly or there is an appalling queue.

    The last mentioned situation often happens at Ludlow where some old dear decides
    she wants to plan a convoluted rail journey for two months hence at 8.30am. And she’ll have her information irrespective of how long it takes. The ticket staff there don’t have the commonsense to tell her to take herself off for a cup of tea and a Bath bun; and come back when the ticket office is less crowded.

    In fairness to the old dear the one causing the “jam” can equally be a selfish, spoilt sixteen year old with his mobile glued firmly to his ear, who arrived late at the station, leaving his mother to sort out train times and related matters for him at the counter – as happened this week past. Again they should have been told to wait.

    If the Train Operating Companies had stations which were fully staffed with competent booking office staff, then you really would have no excuse not to purchase a ticket BEFORE you travel. But they don’t – to save money. The result is the guard on the train gets overwhelmed with passengers wanting to buy tickets and then to counter this in come the penalty surcharges,

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  5. 5
    Matt

    It’s because they are services run by other firms, so why should they care?

    Mind you, they are paid enough, so you’d think they could be bothered, wouldn’t you? But are they bothered? No.

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  6. 6
    quinny

    Short answer is it depends on the train staff and how they’re feeling that day. I regularly commute from Wellington-Telford and over the last few months I have seen one person fined on the spot, yet the same fine staff member the very next day allowed a couple to purchase tickets near me without as much as a warning. The system is a joke. Incidentally, whilst I’m ranting, local stations also leave a lot to be desired, Telford platforms, smokers regularly ignore signs, Wellington station, ticket machine slow, hence queues. Also, no indoor waiting area as the ticket office space that could be used is cordoned off and when asked, no valid reason was given from the station staff.

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  7. 7
    bath

    I think it is due to who is checking the ticket. Only certain people can issue a penalty fare and that is usually RPIs (revenue protection inspectors)
    If a guard is checking tickets then he can only sell a full fare ticket. If a RPI is on the train then he will not sell a ticket and leave it to the RPI to issue a penalty fare.

    If there are no ticket issuing facilities or the machine/office are not working then they won’t issue a penalty fare and the passenger will be able to buy a ticket on board.

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  8. 8
    Train Guard

    I am a guard for London midland and the rule has been about for years that If there is a ticket office or a ticket machine You MUST buy your ticket before you board, If the station is unmanned and there are no ticket machines You can buy your ticket on the train However all station now have a machine called a PERTIS machine the idea of these is you put a nominal amount of money in one and then it prints a voucher for that amount (i always advise people to put 5p in just in case they swallow your money) this voucher is then given to the guard on the train and subtracted from the fare.

    The problem is when you board a train without a ticket and if you have’t asked the guard if you can buy one on the train you tend to run into 3 different types of personality

    1. Will sell you a ticket but it will be the most expensive option so it will either be a standard day single/return or on long distance standard open single/return and will explain about the penalty fares scheme

    2. Will quite happily sell you the cheapest ticket

    We are taught to do number 1 However I know how expensive rail fares are and how short staffed some of the stations are so I ten dot go for option 2 simply because it makes my passengers happier and my job easier, However if you check the back of your ticket it does give you the penalty fares warning about you MUST buy your ticket on the train

    The people who issue the fines are called revenue protection and these will jump on any train at any time and if you are the train they are on without a ticket or a PERTIS voucher you will be fined

    So in conclusion You SHOULD buy your ticket before you board as you could be fined or charged the full fare for your journey if you are in a rush try and find the guard and ask if you can buy a ticket on the train most will say yes or failing that buy a PERTIS voucher (machines are normally small red things if they are working) put a nominal amount in and it could save you being fined

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