Letter: Pope is just a ‘minority interest celebrity’
Wednesday 22nd September 2010, 9:26AM BST.
Now I know I’m going to be classed as an old misery or a killjoy, but I have just seen a headline saying “Cost to taxpayer of Pope’s visit to Britain could soar to £12m”.
My mother lives in Shropshire. Her local village group has just been kicked back for a miserable £2,000 grant to take the elderly to a market town they went to visit once a week, as they have done for more than 20 years, until the local authority cut their bus.
Now they have to sit in their houses alone instead.
We are in the middle of a recession where the poor could see their benefits cut, or worse.
People are losing their homes and frontline services are being affected.
And yet we squander a fortune on a minority interest celebrity who belongs to an organisation that is, probably, as well off as any other in the world today, whose leader has taken a disingenuous stance toward wrongdoings and, with his church and one of his top assistants, insults our country.
So please may I be forgiven if I feel total apathy towards his visit?
Keith Wood, Whitchurch
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Well said that man……..
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“So please may I be forgiven if I feel total apathy towards his visit?”
….like you Keith, I’m totally apathetic about this – so apathetic that I can’t even be bothered to comment….oh b*gger!!!!!!
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We keep being told that “the last government” invited him… Was that Tony Blair? If so I would say he spent all of this taxpayer money due to his own religious bias.
And on the subject of it being a state visit, since when did we invite the leaders of other nations to come to Britain to tell us how to live our lives?
Especially when we find out who’s side he was on in the war, his knowledge of and actions regarding the dangerous sexual predators that worked for him and his obscene views on women and homosexuals…
Come to think of it, if any of us mere mortals were to repeat some of his views on homosexuality I think we would be in court in hate crime charges quicker than you could say paedophile priest.
An odious little man famous for nothing more than having an imaginary friend, he should keep out of our country and live in the middle ages where he is obviously at his most comfortable.
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I agree with all these comments. The church should foot the bill, it seems to have plenty of money to keep the Pope and his cronies in the lifestyle they have become accustomed to. What an absolute waste of our hard earned money. At the least there should have been a vote by the whole country to say yes/no to spending tax payers money on the visit. I think we know what the outcome would have been. It’s not as if he is actually a well liked man, I disliked him the minute he came to power and I heard he was one of Hitler’s Nazi Youth.
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12 million is a drop in the ocean, just wait till you see how much the olympics is going to cost you!
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Well it is all not as simple as the “op” and some may think , however in the BIG SOCIETY FAMILY LOOK AFTER THEIR OWN this is what the British people need to be educated about LOOKING AFTER YOUR OWN FAMILY far to many rely on the state or others for every day care etc medical care should be an exception clearly but days out, shopping, meals, looking in on more tha once a month or year in some cases is not good enough.As for the catholic issues such as this
“Come to think of it, if any of us mere mortals were to repeat some of his views on homosexuality I think we would be in court”
Again a myth of course you can comment on such things you just cant discriminate. Speaking as a Non catholic I am sure sure his visit was welcomed by the thousands of tax payers who went to the gatherings.
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Good point Andrew:
“you can comment on such things you just cant discriminate.”
I think he does do that every minute of every day: discriminate against homsexuals and women.
Think about what you type!
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I did think about what I typed, I said you can have a view and can comment on such issues as does the pope I never said he did not discriminate.
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Andrew Finch
??????????????????????????????????
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The “op” moans about the pope and also the failed attempt for a hand out to take his mother out on a day trip why cant he do it and pay for it ??? why expect the tax payer to foot that Bill??
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I wouldn’t agree he is a minor celebrity, certainly not to the many Catholics in this country however the British Government should not have paid anything toward this visit. I’m not catholic, why should I pay toward the visit of someone I personally do not hold as a prominent person. He is only prominent in the Catholic Church, nowhere else.
He’s a Catholic figurehead so the Catholic church should have foot 100% of the bill, let’s face they’re rich enough (although the Vatican is being invesigated for fraudulent accounting at the moment!)
Would Catholics be happy paying for a multi million pound celebration if the Christians thought the 2nd coming of Christ were imminent? I think not.
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The church DID foot some of the bill. So your point would be redundant.
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If you read the comment Matt it said the church should foot ALL the bill so my point is not redundant at all.
Now if you can, read the comment again and respond appropriately
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I did respond appropriately.
As the Pope is a Head of State the UK government covered the parts of the visit that were regarded as matters of State, the Catholic Church paid for the part of the visit that were purely religious.
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I am a working mum and work to support my kids and family but seeing stuff like this is annoying. I pay my taxes and what for?
This country is in need of all the money it can keep in it at the moment jobs are being lost all over the areas and places are being knocked down for lack of funds to keep them going.
As for the church paying the bill who pays money to the church? The tax payer by any chance?
The money for him coming to visit the UK could of been put back into this country and been used in a better way.
Yes many people went to the gatherings and a child was picked out of the crowds but the monies still could of gone to better stuff.
Helping the homeless for intsance!
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We cant decide what our taxes can and cant go on if we did we would be in rather a muddle as people say I have no kids in schools , I do not or have not used Hospitals etc etc etc
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Very true Andrew. I do however get very frustrated when we have people losing their jobs, dying because we ‘can’t afford medication’ and seeing department waste money. Then watch our government give away 70 million pounds in “aid”.
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No letters praising his visit here, that says a lot about how normal people feel about the shameful waste of money bringing a deluded, doddering nonentity to the UK. I do rant on about religion because it beggars belief that in this day and age some folk actually believe in the tripe spouted by the clergy and why do they have to dress up like pantomime dames to do it?. There is not ONE shred of evidence to support their beliefs yet confirmation of our evolution from the primates is abundant.
I would ship them all off to some remote island and there they could preach to each other ad infinitum and not bore the rest of us NORMAL people with their idiotic ravings.
IF ONLY !!!!!
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Again it is what some people see as normal people I suppose.But you could also ask why when you rant you are so insulting to an individual in order to get your point across and make yourself heard .
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Andrew, did he or did he not by virtue of his position cover up many years of child abuse?. I think you’ll find he did and by his actions actually condoned it. In my humble opinion ANYONE who is involved in such sub-human behaviour is beneath contempt and unworthy of any respect whatsoever be he the pope or whatever so yes, I do insult him because he insults my intelligence by coming here and spouting about christian values. If abusing children is about christian values then christianity is a mockery.
Before someone points out the lack of capitals in this post, it is deliberate as this subject and ALL involved in it are not important enough to warrant their use and I did use a capital for your name although if you’re supporting child abusers that will soon change.
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Of course I do support your view on how wrong it was for the catholic church and him to cover up many years of child abuse and how wrong to do such things are, however the same could be said about the people who covered the same type of abuse in children’s homes in the UK who’ s feet do we lay that at??? when are people going to be brought to justice about it and even with regards many children who suffered at the hands of abusers during the evacuation who do we blame for that?? who has ever been brought to justice for it??. Clearly you have an issue with religion full stop no matter what the faith which is your choice as it for others to practice their religion, but perhaps then it is best as one of my old mangers used to do and BAN POLITICS AND RELIGION in the work place and staff room because as he used to say people seem to lose the view we all have a view on politics and religion which is never the same as the other persons.
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Colin,
I am a Catholic and if other Catholics are like me and they read the pure garbage, vitriol and ignorant/uneducated comments on this stream – of which yours surpasses all the others, I would imagine it is beneath both their dignity and desire not to become involved in such crass drivel. Myself though, always ready to respond to idiotic comments thought that I would do so on this occasion and tell you what I thought of yours. Unbeknown to yourself, you and others of the same ilk are one of the reasons why the Pope had such a successful visit. He told the country to wake up to the sad, ignorant and thoroughly “thick” approach of people like yourself to religions of whatever faith.
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The Pope came here, insulted all the sane people, cost the country money. His visit upset most people and wasted our money.
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so upset most people, you mean, very few closed minded people, who have limited understanding of world politics and global economy’s.
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Whilst I have some sympathy for what your saying Colin and am pretty much atheist in outlook, I think it’s fair to say;
a) Anything that helps people cope with the strangely unpleasant matter of living can’t be all bad. Faith can do this.
b) Conversely, the promise of the afterlife and the ‘meek inheriting the earth’, is a bit jam tomorrow and may defer actually doing something to improve the situation right now. This is not a good thing.
c) Within religions some people get something meaningful out of listening to what a holy-man has to say about a holy-book. This can be a good thing with the caveat that it depends on your point of view about and the implications of what is being preached.
d) There is a tendency within Religion therefore to negate any sense of the concept of a personal relationship with chosen deity, deferring instead to what someone else thinks should be gleaned from scripture (or whatever it’s called in the myriad of religions). This is not a good thing and has led to some pretty awful things (understatement acknowledged).
e) Ergo Faith is both different and greater than Religion.
f) Everyone worships something whether that be God, Money, Power, etc etc
g) To non-believers of any of these forms of worship, believers spouting off on said subject are deluded, preachy and boring. For example, to those who’ve largely rejected the rat-race, the fact that TV, Newspapers etc push an agenda of materialism (not the Materialism of life being a by-product of matter, the other one) is as offensive/dull as Richard Dawkins watching Songs of Praise all day.
h) When all this bombardment of other people’s choice of worship gets to much, life can seem pretty dull….to which end, see (a).
TL:DR Everyone’s opinion, mine included, is boring.
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I don’t understand why someone with such offensive views was invited to preach here. The catholic church does so much harm in the world. Spreading lies about the use of condoms, telling people in Africa that they help the spread of aids. Turning a blind eye to years of child abuse. Sorry but this subject makes me so angry. That money could have done some real good, instead it’s wasted.
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I believe all church schools should be self funding.
It is no wonder that they are popular when they are allowed extra money and pick and choose who they take as pupils.
The church has and will always be a successful form of networking and I have yet to meet anyone who I consider to have any more integrity who has a religious belief than who has not. In fact I am more sceptical of religious people because they seem to think that they should be rewarded for doing good when we should do the right thing whether we are rewarded or not.
They also believe that you can do wrong then blame it on illness as with the paedophilia and by merely saying sorry to some made up all powerful being you don’t even need have a conscience about the lives destroyed.
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Very glad to know you’re not supporting these abnormal creatures Andrew and yes, I do have an issue with religion, it is bunkum (polite definition). Eva made a very good point in that the actions of abusers do destroy lives, I would imagine that very few who were abused as small children ever get over it completely. On these pages a few months back was a discussion about jon venables who with another murdered James Bulger. On that subject I said he should have been hung, young as he was and ecky thump, did I get some stick about that. Then it transpired that he was involved in child pornography so maybe all those who knocked me then would like to re-think about that. Without sick perverts to watch such filth there would be no market for it so the viewers are as guilty as the perpetrators and should be treated just as harshly.
Why should someone be forgiven such a crime merely because they worship some imaginary bloke who sits in the sky and why do the police not have the authority to go over the popes head and bring these creatures to justice. The church is corrupt from top to bottom but I think it’s time that was changed, they’re only people after all, they just think they’re god.
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I was sickened by this visit. The money wasted on importing this relic could have far better spent. The whole visit was nothing more than a recruitment drive for the catholic church and an attack on free will. The Vatican is just a money making business with obscene amounts of wealth. I won’t go in to the popes personal history & views but if this man is meant to be gods representative on earth, then I have never felt so proud to be an atheist!
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State visit = He was invited
Invited = Manners would have it that host pays.
Mind you, as a guest he could have brought everyone a bottle of wine (not sure I’ll be inviting him again on the back of that)
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Clearly their is no hope for the pope.
Just a friends suggestion for a pope headline.
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RE: Hitler Youth.
He had no choice as all youths in germany at the time were made “members” once he was conscripted to the full army, he deserted and surrendered.
RE: His visit
I fail to see the point or what has/will be achieved.
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I do not agree with you regarding hanging people Colin.
Psychpathic personality disorders are not an illness as such but manipulative, repressive, sexist and grooming religious or political cults can influence certain people to such an extent that they truly believe very damaging behaviour is acceptable in society.
Jon Venables may himself as a child have been a victim of this kind of upbringing (it’s the old nature v nurture argument) but has grown into an adult with abnormal perceptions of what are acceptable forms of gratification.
If within the rigid church’s indoctrinated up bringing, people inclined towards this sort of behaviour are believed to be repentful then the church needs to wake up because this distorted view of children is almost impossible to eradicate and the perpetrators often need chemical supressents to control them. They never understand the damage they have wrought.
The simplistic view of killing people who do not conform to what most of us consider ‘normal’ reduces us to a similar level of humanity.
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Fair enough Eva, you have you opinion and I have mine, but I lump child abusers with vicious dogs, if they keep biting people you have them put down. Incarceration does not work ( ref venables) they just come out and re-offend.
Children are naturally gullible, tell them that each December a bloke with a white beard and some flying reindeer goes all over the world climbing down chimneys to leave presents for good boys and girls and they believe it, the same with religion, they are susceptible to suggestion. Paedophiles use this gullibility to their own advantage and it is our responsibility as “normal” thinking people to protect them from these creatures. Therefore, to bang them up for a short time in fairly “cushy” conditions then let them loose on society again is an exercise in futility. With DNA forensics now available proving guilt is far easier than it was so any child killer should be removed as a threat PERMANENTLY. Likewise ANY child abuser should be brought to book and given a punishment to fit the crime i.e. locked up for natural life, no parole.
I wonder how the victims of these paedophile priests feel, having spoken out and been ignored. I wish one of them would contribute to this page and tell us how they really feel.
Adults should protect children, they cannot protect themselves, can the RC church claim to be a protector of children???, no, I thought not.
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In that case Colin I would have to say that I consider those who support capital punishment equivilent or no better than an animal.
I must say I take issue with one point you have made on your thoughtful and interesting post Nistagmus and it was similar to what Caroline Flint said on Question Time last night.
[f)Everyone worships something whether that be God, Money, Power, etc etc]
She claimed that we are all religious or have a faith whether we exhibit it by attending church or not.
I do not agree with this statement at all and IMO it is a myth that is promoted in this country to justify the whole point of religion which has always been to gain power, money and elitism.
Not having a faith belief is not to say that life is just total cynicism which is all we seem to get from Ian Hislop thesedays. He used to be such a funny guy.
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All the above is a very interesting topic and putting a different slant on it , The amount of C,OF,E,weddings have dropped that is clear but why then has their been very little change in Christian funerals?ie the request for a vicar hymns prayers are these people just edging their bets??.
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Thank you Eva, I would rather be classed with animals than with these worthless creatures in this discussion.
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Pope or no Pope who cares….
Come on religion is a dying hobby these days, the Pope just cost us millions in tax payers money, for what exactly?
To watch an old man in an off white robe prance around the UK. wonder what his carbon fottprint is like….
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My history is a little rusty but didn’t Henry VIII protest against Catholosism some 500 years ago and tried to rid the country if it back then. So why do we even want this guy in the country leave alone at the cost to the taxpayer
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The only reason Henry VIII changed England’s religion was for none other than divorce and another woman! I am not a Catholic or in anyway religious but the majority of comments in this thread are not worth commenting on.
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This is the same church that with the help of the Red Cross supplied false papers to the Nazi war criminals to allow them to flee to other countries after the war and evade justice.The Vatican is still refusing to let historians see the war time documents kept in their archives.[Something to hide?] Joining the Hitler Youth was like joining the Scouts in this Country. Voluntary. Go to the Vatican Museums and see the wealth on display,and you only get to see a very small part. The Catholic church is reported to be one of the richest organizations in the world. So Mr. Pope next time pay yourself.This country could have done a lot with the money we had to pay for your visit
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John,
‘Joining the Hitler Youth was like joining the scouts in this country’.
What nonsense. It’s a matter of record that by the later stages of the Nazi era it was mandatory to join the Hitler youth, and that will undoubtedly be the basis upon which the current Pope joined. You’ve previously indicated that you are a supporter of a far-right party in the UK, whose leader is known as a holocaust denier – are you now trying to lend him a hand by playing down the Nazis’ propaganda and indictrination of youth?
It’s also well-known that your chosen party has links to hard-line Loyalists in Northern Ireland – so blind anti-Catholicism is about par for the course – some people just can’t get enough of hatred it seems.
I’m of the personal view that all religious belief is a delusion, but I understand the psychology behind why many people find comfort in their religious faith. The Catholic Church is a huge worldwide religion, and all the child abuse scandal, tragedy and great source of shame that it is, only represents a tiny minority of its membership and clergy.
Given its significance in the world, I don’t really see that as a civilised nation we could do nothing other than treat the Pope as a head of state. It would be unthinkable for him to visit Britain and not meet with members of the Royal family for instance.
I’ve seen such nonsense, ignorance and general small-mindedness in this thread it really does beggar belief.
Personally I think we have far more to fear as a society from evangelical types who seek to wheedle their looney beliefs on Creationism into our schools under the entirely false premise that they can be represented as science.
All faith is blind faith as far as I’m concerned, but I find myself with a little more respect for a religion that has some depth to its theology, rather than ones which rely upon mass public hysteria and happy-clappy shallowness to practice their deceit.
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If I decided I to go to Italy for a break I would have to pay myself so why should the British tax payer pay for an Italian resident to visit Britain. If the Catholics want him here they should pay for the privilege. The Vatican is the richest country in the world, taking into account all the valuable artifacts that it owns, and as such should be doing something for the poorer people who are dying from starvation and major disasters. I think it is morally wrong to invite the head of the biggest phaedophile ring in the world into this country; what is the message that it sends to child abusers?
Personally, I view religion as the biggest con trick in the world, the real truth has been repressed by the Churches (mainly Catholics) for years. I write as someone who has investigated and studied religion before making an informed choice.
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I understand many points of view but think it is just life.
I have a job, a house, enough money to survive and I get one with it.
I am aware that my taxes pay for other people’s children, grandparents, benefits etc but that is the way it is and there is no point in worrying about it.
I am Catholic and went to a catholic school where I met people from all walks of life because we welcomed those who had been expelled from elsewhere – I am not sure why eva thinks they pick and choose or if things have changed since I was at school.
My money went towards the Pope’s visit I’m sure but as someone with no children my money has been going on things that are nothing to do with me for a long time.
And I have a feeling I won’t get any of that back just for being infertile!
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[as someone with no children my money has been going on things that are nothing to do with me for a long time.]
I am very sorry that this is how you see life and I do understand that not being able to have children by choice is a hard situation to deal with I had difficulties starting a family too.
You can console yourself that the children others have had will be there to look after you in your more dependent elderly years.
Saying that my sister started her medical training back in the late 1960s and was horrified at the dreadful position catholic women were put in. They had been indoctrinated from very young so were completely committed to their religion but in order not to be excommunicated had to put up with having one baby after another with the rest of the hard working state having to try and help support these deprived and demanding huge families.
The women also had endless gynecological problems from repeated pregnancies.
Their lives were made a misery by an archaic set of rules invented by power thirsty men and bitter twisted women.
I worked in children’s homes and some of my fellow students worked in the religious homes that were overseen by nuns. I have subsequently, many years later heard some stories that do not entirely surprise me though at the time I just remember the girls having to get up at ridiculous hours of the morning and discipline being very rigid in those homes.
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well i think the pope is gorgeous, he looks so hot in those robes, id hang off his cross any day.
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There is no such thing as god, we all came from anti matter when the big bang happened.
As for the pope he is just an excuse to give people false hope all around the world.
It’s simple, no religion equals no wars and no poverty, no pope equals less debt for the UK…
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PETER, Yes the Hitler youth were conscripted but only at the very end of the war when the Germans were in full retreat, untill then it was Voluntary. Why pick out a small part of my comment why not comment on all the facts I presented?.I have noted that every time I write a comment on anything you class me as a member of the BNP, So here is a few facts that you should know.
I am not a member of any political party.
I attended ST. MARYS RC SCHOOL. Town Walls Shrewsbury. [now apartments] from 5-15 years of age so you see I’m a Roman Catholic.And married in the RC Cathedral In 1962.
I have been studying the Holocaust for many years in that time I have visited all the Nazi death camps in Poland [or what's left of them] also Holocaust museums in New York, Washington. and Israel, and others in different parts of the world.
I do agree with the Popes stand on Homosexually.
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EVA.As a Catholic I totally agree with your comments about Catholic woman having children.
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