Letter: Are lunatics running highways asylum?
Thursday 9th September 2010, 7:33AM BST.
Letter: It would appear that after the fourth revamp in as many years another 1.4 million pounds of tax payers’ money has been wasted on “improvements” at the Harlescott Cross Roads.
Clearly there is a major problem with northbound traffic heading out towards Whitchurch.
At the traffic lights any driver who takes the inside of the two lanes heading straight on finds themselves after the lights in the turn left lane for Tesco.
In order to head out of town they must then indicate and cut across into the main traffic flow.
While waiting for some considerate motorist to give way they block access into the Tesco retail park.
Make no mistake, the system by the Tesco entrance is an accident waiting to happen. I have seen a couple of near misses in as many trips.
Once again the incompetence of the traffic planners is there for everyone to see and changes will need to be undertaken again.
Surely heads must roll this time enabling the council to make some savings on its payroll budget.
Furthermore, I have never seen such a vast forest of lights as on this junction.
Swan Hill is further example of the incompetence we are paying for.
This was recently resurfaced but within seven days the road was dug up by Severn Trent Water for repairs.
If the same highways team was responsible for this then the lunatics are clearly running the asylum.
Andrew France (Dr)
Shrewsbury
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I don’t want to derail this discussion before it has started, but I would like quietly mention another example of highways madness.
Just before the junction of Legges Way and Coalport Road in Madeley, the T&W Highways Department has seen fit to install an obstruction which completely blocks the left hand side of the road, throwing drivers on to the wrong side just before a side turning and a blind bend. I haven’t just seen, I’ve also been in several near misses here.
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We sit outside the All Nations Inn on coalport road most nights listening to the screeeeeeeeech of evasive action, three per night on average
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Maybe somewhat of an exaggeration considering most cars on the raod are fitted with ABS…
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“Maybe somewhat of an exaggeration considering most cars on the raod are fitted with ABS…”
As someone who also visits the All Nations most nights I can confirm that Spencer’s comment is spot on – perhaps there aren’t quite as many cars fitted with ABS as you thought?
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The one by the back gate to Blist’s Hill? That one defies logic. It creates a hazard that never existed until its installation and ought to be removed.
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Thanks, I was starting to think I was imagining it! A T&W Highways Officer has just informed me that a car might park at a similar position near a junction, and it’s normal to have to go round parked cares, so that’s all right then. At least I think that’s what he meant.
Also, everyone should know that road is 30mph because it’s got street lamps. Hmm, I think I see a flaw in that argument. Lots of them. Every day.
If anyone’s on Facebook, so is ‘Lose that lethal Legges Way buildout’.
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The 30mph limit is another stupid thing about that road. It’s not in a built up area, but Kemberton Road, half a mile away, is – and it has a 40mph limit.
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Maybe the Star could nip along and take a few photos (or just zoom in on Google Street Maps) – we could have a poll for the stupidest road layouts in the county.
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Speed limits in T&W are strange.
Dual carriageway from M54 to A442 is 50 mph. Cross over the A442 roundabout (straight on in other words) and continue towards Holiday Inn, it becomes a single carriageway road but speed limit raised to 60 mph.
How does that work then?
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Do you all mean like that barrier that stops you seeing the traffic coming from the left on the Dawley roundabout as you come from the Thomas Telford school roundabout? What is the point of that barrier exactly?
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I think the idea is that if you can’t see where you’re going or what is happening, you will slow down.
Not very effective, really – I think all drivers should be made to wear dark glasses and blinkers (like racehorses). If that doesn’t work, black out their side windows.
That will slow the little so-and-so’s down. Oh, and stick a few boulders in the road for them to swerve round as well.
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It’s the new road safety philosophy – make the roads safer by making them more dangerous.
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Like Spencer I have often heard the sound of skidding tyres and squealing brakes from the frequent near misses caused by this idiotic obstruction.
On several occasions I have also been a passenger in a car that’s been involved in a near miss, through no fault of the driver.
Letters to the highways department at Telford & Wrekin have yielded replies that are best summarised as “I’m the expert, what do you know about it? tough luck”.
The sooner he goes back to rearranging his scalextric track in his mum’s spare bedroom the better for all concerned.
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@ TOJ – tell me about it. I do 30 on that road – and gather a queue of angry and frustrated people behind me who then proceed to pass at the worst possible moments.
Knowing my luck, if I go at a sensible speed I’ll be the first to get nabbed ;)
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That sounds strangely familiar. For a few years after Sainsburys was built in Oswestry and they had the road lay out changed, all traffic from the A5 ended up in Sainsburys car park unless they turned off beforehand. How convenient for Sainsburys! I imagine that Shrewsbury Tescos are also pleased that traffic now gets filtered directly into their car park. Purely a coincidence of course.
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Dr. France’s point is certainly well-expressed, but will not sink into the heads of the people responsible.
Three problems:
1) We’re still dealing with the legacy of the last government’s philosophy which drummed it into local and national government employees that private transport is bad, public transport good, so almost every scheme will contain a (not-so) subtle element of inconvenience in a misguided attempt to make people use public transport which is not up to the grade in any case.
2) Highways engineers who have no real experience of the real World and, as in Telford and Wreking, get paid their salaries not for engineering highways but for bringing in advisors and consultants to do the work for them. Problem is, the public engineers are often unable to adequately understand or control the private consultants, leading to acceptance of a scheme like this where, as Dr. France correctly states, an “ahead through lane” tuns into a “local left lane” without any prior warning to prepare motorists.
3) Local government is STILL following old treasury instruction that dictated that the priority on junctions is the cause delay to allow revenues to be increased in the form of fuel wasted while traffic is held up. Few, if any, of the engineers seem to be aware or bothered that the treasury rules were restated in late 2008 to give precedence to “green” systems rather than “revenue” systems.
This meant that “fluid junctions” should be built instead of “stalling junctions” and light sequences along highways should be programmed to ensure that if vehicles keep to the speed limit, they will encounter green lights all the way along the primary route, without need for the stop-start that was treasury instruction before 2008.
Needless to say, almost every junction or light controlled roundabout that I encounter in Shrewsbury or Telford, (and elsewhere as I travel widely), is still programmed on the “revenue” model, not the “green” model. It’s a simple change to make, if only our engineers could just drag themselves away from chatting with expensive, wasteful consultants and start doing the jobs that we pay them to do rather than paying someone else to do it for them.
It does surprise me that at a time when local government is looking to make savings, any public employee would continue spending a significant amount of their time (and budget) in sub-contracting their role to someone else. By doing so, they are effectively making themselves into expensive intermediaries and thus opening their roles up to scrutiny and potential redundancy.
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What an absolute load of twaddle!
where do you get your “facts” from Rodney?
Traffic light systems on busy junctions are design for the public and not just for the driver. Safe passage across these junctions for walkers, children and the elderly in particular is more important than your minute idling at a red light.
As ever Rodney, you’re far to rushed in your own little world to see the bigger picture.
What a plonker!
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They’re improving the access to the incinerator
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My! Somebody is grumpy today. Whilst I accept you have a point, there is no need to be so angry about everything. Also, the paper is the wrong place to write to, it’s the council you want!
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If Dr France is a medical doctor then I am very surprised indeed that he is using such outdated, unpleasantly derisory, language.
People with mental health problems are no longer labelled lunatics and highways engineers like anyone else may well suffer such problems but it is distasteful to imply that they are liable to be baying at the moon or incompetant if they have got any kind of psychiatric illness.
Many people with mental health illnesses successfully control their conditions and work as capably as other people, including in the medical profession.
If Dr France needs to look to his own failings in how he puts his point across judging by this letter, before attacking how well other professionals perform.
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Eva, it’s a popular saying…nothing to do with whether Dr France or anyone else for that matter, really believes that these people are really medically certifiable.
As for being “professionals”, knowing how the councils “promote” from within, I would doubt if any of them actually has any recognisable qualifications, to class them as a “professional” for the job that they are supposed to be doing.
I once queried a local councils’ Highways Team qualifications and was told by their then head of department, that some of them were “very experienced”, hardly makes them professionals does it?
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Whitchurch road is an awful road to travel down now as there are 5 sets of traffic lights to navigate. Traffic flow down the road is bad to say the least, it is quicker to travel down Sundourne Road or Lancaster Road to access anywhere other than businesses close to the Harlescott lights. The newly restructured Harlescott junction is little different to previous versions and really should have been made into a roundabout.
As mentioned above the queues into Tesco are bad and there should be another entrance/exit to the site at another point to help alleviate traffic build up.
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Your point three (without any references) says two opposite things about the treasury?
I have sympathy with the views on short-sighted cheap and nasty attitude of contracting-out skills to people who care-not once their work is finished,. They leave those in organisations to finish the job, make it work and live with what their managers have failed to include in the contract. It’s a popular cowardice by modern management who aren’t skilled enough to employ folk to do the job directly. This is the price of ‘flexibility’.
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Thank you for commenting on my comment, DevilsChair. I’ve looked again and cannot see the contradiction. If you’d care to point it out, I’d be happy to look again and clarify.
As for references, you are correct that I have not supplied any, but to quote the treasury rules on stalling traffic flow (revenue raising, due to VAT and duty earned on fuel expenditure by motorists) which were changed in 2008 to become rules on flowing traffic (green rules to reduce fuel consumption and hence CO2, etc.) would be possible, but would need more space than I think the Shropshire Star would allow.
The rules are, as one would expect from a (previous) Labour government obsessed with the minutiae of control over our lives, very complex, which is probably why the simple minds in the highways departments have still not got their heads around them, almost two years after their introduction.
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Whilst we are on the subject.. Can anyone tell me who the bright spark was who suggested traffic lights on emstry islandin Shrewsbury was??? they really do deserve the prize for top idiot. All that this has acheived is major tailbacks every morning. 20 minutes today!!!! Come on!!!!
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I put a FoI request in to ask how the accident rates looked before and after, havign seen a dozen smashes myself at Emstrey.
They just ignored it…
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It would appear to me, that the main qualifications to run a highways dept in the last decade or so, are;
(a) not being able to drive a vehicle
(b) no common sense
(c) not living anywhere near the area in question.
(d) wanting all road transport to grind to a halt
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What a waste of money when we are supposed to be making cuts. Not revamping the crossroad would have saved good on our budget.
Another thing I still feel it was road to cut the speed limmit on Whitchurch & Battlefield road to 30mph.
I feel having lived in Shresbury all my life that that 40mph was right from these roads along with Featherbed lane and Sundorne Road. Feel this is a complete waste of time and money and unneccesary.
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Whilst I do appreciate concerns about Harlescott crossroads traffic lights I think all who complain should quietly put things into perspective. The reason for the reviewed traffic management follows the tragic death of a boy and a campaign by local residents. The minor inconveniences being mentioned are nothing in comparison to a a young life taken and a family’s grief.
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Simon, i agree, people need to put their selfish lives into perspective!
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I travel through that junction twice a day at least to and from work and it works no better now than it ever did.
The best bit of that ridiculous new layout was when they first started doing the road markings. The first two arrows on the stretch after the lights were ‘straight ahead’ ones and it only became a ‘left turn only’ when you got to the actual lights! The chaos it caused was unbelievable. Some numpty obviously realised it was a cock-up and actually seemed to hand paint them into left turn arrows all the way along a few days later.
I totally agree with Dr France, to have a straight ahead through lane suddenly become a left turn only lane is stupid and dangerous.
It’s as though they based the whole thing around creating two lanes to go straight ahead but only after the plans were signed off did someone remember Tesco so they decided to just leave it and hope nobody noticed.
Still, this is the same council that thought it a good idea to put a boy-racer drag strip going in the opposite direction when Tesco was first built, only to quickly paint it out when they realised how dangerous it was and a young boy was killed.
Morons.
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What a complete waste of our money, the people who designed this latest effort should be the first one’s to be sacked under the Shropshire Council cuts and certified. So far I have counted 38 sets of traffic lights on Harlescott crossroads and the Tesco lights and I am still counting as some stands do not have lights put on them yet. there must be more traffic lights in the 300 yds of road than anywhere else in England. I think the Council bought a job lot off Dell boy.I have been driving in Shrewsbury for 50years and got caught out when I followed the straight ahead arrow in the near side lane only to find it turned into Tesco,I then had to try to get in the other lane to go ahead, as did a few vehicles behind me. What a stupid layout.
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These are not professionals but take lead from imported career pundits from out of our area bringing “solutions” their have practised from elsewhere !!!
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Dr France, I have travelled this route several times since the scheme was finished and have to say that it is a vast improvement. Perhaps, Doctor, you should see an optician, as it is plainly indicated on the road surface at the start of the lane, that the inside lane is for turn left only, it says so in words, twice over and is repeated with more turn left arrows.
Don’t forget that this scheme was carried out largely in response to the tragic death of an innocent young man at the junction of Whitchurch Road and Featherbed Lane. The interests of pedestrians and cyclists, some of whom may even be at times some of the impatient and intolerant motorists who are criticisng this scheme, are now provided with a lot more protection on this major blackspot and I for one much appreciate that.
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Also I was recently speaking to a coach driver who was complaining that wider vehicles now have to straddle more than one lane when turning left from Harlescott lane onto Battlefield Road towards Tesco as the lanes are far too narrow.
I’ve also seen the mad lane switching here – total madness!
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Just put a round about in – without traffic lights! and invest in either public foot bridges or better, well illuminated, crossings. This would improve things.
Then they can look at how bad the light sequence is in the town centre by the Welsh Bridge.
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when in consultation with the council this option was discussed but there is not enough land available at the site to accommodate this
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Soapbox John – Bridges are hardly accessible for the elderly, those with walking/sight disabilities are they?
And pedestrian crossings involve traffic lights! Unless you are suggesting that pedestrians would be able to find a gap in traffic large enough for them to cross the wide roads without signals?? Given the high volume of trafic going through the junction daily I find this very unlikely!
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I Hail to your comment, as mine was a meer suggestion. But frankly I was trying to point out that traffic lights on islands are a bad thing if incorrectly setup. I have no problems for perdestrian crossings to have lights.
I was trying to point out that the 1.4 Million pounds to cause more problems at this junction is a bad thing which as a shrewsbury resident I am not happy about. And I beleive that it could have been planned / used better.
I agree with Matt’s comment above.
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This scheme is on a par with the Quantum Leap with it’s waste of money and a picture of it should be the used on greetings cards. I received a birthday card last week and on the front of it was a picture of yes – the Quantum Leap! How sad is that!
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I for one am extremely greatful for the changes. I started the facebook group to alert people to the danger of the traffic flowing onto Whitchurch road where that stupid old filter lane was which encouraged people to speed to beat the line of traffic. Since that lane has been taken away there have been no near misses that we are aware of or accidents, which were happening on a daily basis.
it was a long battle but with the help of many people we got the layout changed for the better in my opinion.
If its a simple case of being in the wrong lane because you cant read or don’t see the warnings (which are repeated several times as you enter the lanes) then I for one would rather someone be in the wrong lane than nearly kill or indeed KILL an innocent person. after all, it was probably only a matter of time before someone else was killed
These are teething problems which will be sorted out once people get used to the change or choose to read the road markings properly.
I’m sure the mother of the boy who was killed would not see the money spent as a waste of money, infact I expect if she could swap the whole council budget for a year to see her boy alive again then I’m sure pretty sure she would, who wouldn’t! and I’m pretty sure you would agree that it wasn’t a waste of money either!
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[Eva, it’s a popular saying…nothing to do with whether Dr France or anyone else for that matter, really believes that these people are really medically certifiable.]
Is it Roadrunner? I suppose it is probably often said to you if you drive to your own rules rather than the highway code.
I can think of many words used in a derogatory way, retard,idiot,feeble-minded, imbecile etc etc and as many highway officers working for councils started their careers in the police force they have probably heard much worse applied to them on numerous occasions. This does not make it acceptable however, particularly put into print and by someone who should know better.
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“many highway officers working for councils started their careers in the police force”
Can you substaantiate that claim Eva, or is it your wild imagination again?
My best mate has worked in a highways dept (not this part of the country), since leaving school and he doesn’t know of any ex coppers in the dept or in the council even.(whe3n they retire they don’t really want council jobs, most go into security. The majority of highways officers, where he works, start off from college or school or are transfered internally….more fibs, Eva?
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You should see the new obstruction on Smithfield Road. It’s wrong on so many levels and doesn’t seem to serve any purpose. That is madness!
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Crossing the road may not be an important purpose to you Hugh but it is to quite a few pedestrians and cyclists!
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Have you tried to cycle along Smithfield Road since it has gone in?
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I agree with the comment about the forest of traffic lights. When you turn left from Harlescott Lane into Battlefield Road there are two sets of lights on your left hand side just a few yards apart which do the same job. This job caused chaos for months, has created more hazards than it solved and is a total eyesore.
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a g bell 16″ Perhaps you should be wearing the glasses I have just come down Whitchurch road going north on 14th Sept. The arrows at the lights show the inside and middle lane pointing ahead, it’s only when you get 30 yards past the lights the arrows on the road show that the inside lane is for tesco only and the middle lane is for ahead.This is the problem, if you don’t know the town try changing lanes at a busy time.
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