Housing maintenance survey asks: ‘Are you straight or gay?’
Tuesday 6th July 2010, 3:01PM BST.
Are you straight or gay? That was the question posed to a stunned Shropshire grandmother as she took part in a “bizarre” survey by a housing trust canvassing tenants and landlords for their opinions on cleaning and maintenance.
Elaine Adams, from New Works, near Little Wenlock, in Telford, was asked to fill in the questionnaire as a private landlord by Wrekin Housing Trust.
Housing bosses today defended the questions it posed in the seven-page document saying it was crucial the views of all people were taken into account.
But Mrs Adams said it was “bizarre” and “stupid” and called on others to also make their feelings heard.
Cleaning
Martin James, area investment manager at the Trust, said the questionnaire was put together to find out how satisfied people were with the current cleaning and maintenance service provided in areas where it owned properties and they had to comply with equalities legislation.
But Mrs Adams, 52, said: “I think it’s bizarre. It asks how you would describe your sexual orientation to see if you are heterosexual, a gay man, a gay woman, bisexual, other, or if you would prefer not to say.
“I know they put all sorts of strange things on forms but this is ludicrous and I would like to know why they do it?
“It’s nothing to do with being a landlord or a tenant.
“So what if you are transgender or Buddhist? I know you don’t have to answer it, but what has it got to with how your area is looked after? I’m not happy.”
But Mr James said: “The Trust has a legal duty to consult about the standards of service provision, and questionnaires have been sent to tenants and leaseholders in all of our flats to gather information that will help set the standards for the new cleaning, landscape and maintenance contracts.
“It is important that the views of all customers are taken into account, and the survey includes a number of questions to help the Trust understand opinions of all groups, to ensure it provides services appropriate for everyone.”
But Mrs Adams added: “A lot of stupid organisations do this and I would urge anyone who feels the same way to make a complaint.”
By Jason Lavan
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I am sure the people who designed this form think they have a valid reason for asking such an instrusive question.
I am not sure they could justify it, however.
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And why would they need to know unless the aim was to discriminate in some way against one group or the other?
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Andy, do you really think a Registered Social Landlord would discriminate against anyone? Come on, i think thats a little silly!
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I suppose they’re interested in finding out more about tenant/landlord relationships and how they influence opinions on cleaning and maintenance.
Or they might just be a bunch of snooping perverts with nothing better to do……
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Totally agree Rob, it’s all to do with equality and diversity etc
however you may be right, maybe they don’t have anything better to do, but just sit with a cup of tea creating “silly forms” and wasting paper lol
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why? it can only be so they can disriminate .
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Really? I don’t think so!
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Perhaps the term ‘gay’ is used in the old fashion sense of happy….although looking at the picture I think the answer is a resounding ‘No’.
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Heaven only knows why the question was posed. Not having seen the document or context I wouldn’t want to speculate. However I can categorically state that I find Brians comment both offensive and bigoted. I wonder what exactly constitutes normal and what qualifies Brian to be the arbiter of normal?
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I encourage such questions from public employees.
Such questions allow us to more easily identify the people whose jobs are not necessary and make them redundant to save public expenditure. So by asking them, they do all taxpayers a favour.
Maybe all those other people in non-jobs with too much time on their hands, (such as “audience development officers”, “cheerleading development officers” and “communications waste strategy officers” among many others), would now care to put out surveys with similar questions in them so that the future cuts can be further honed to target the numerous strata of pointless, but well paid, positions that can then be scrapped without affecting “front-line services”, (whatever they may actually be).
Plenty of these non-jobs to get rid of before we even start to think about touching the nurses, teachers, police, etc.
And if anybody wants my favourite example of government money being thrown down the drian, this Quango, promoting the eating of chips, (!) is one to consider: http://www.lovechips.co.uk/
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What!!!
Since when has Wrekin Housing Trust been a public body. I think you will find with 2 seconds of research that they are a private limited company.
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Actually a not for profit company and registered charity!
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Yes Juke, agreed, a not for profit company and a registered charity – much like these other non-profit companies registered as charities, (this is just a small selection):
Internet Watch Foundation – Drugscope – BTCV – School Food Trust – Institute for Public Policy Research – The Fawcett Society – British refugee Council – ASH – Child Poverty Action Group – QUIT – etc, etc.
All not for profit companies, all registered charities all funded largely through the tax payer, not through charitable donations. They all have laudable aims to their circle of admirers and benefitees, no doubt, but the main clue as to where the funding comes from is the fact that you’re unlikely to see volunteers from WHT or any similar “charity” at the entrance to ASDA, waving collection boxes and asking you to donate generously to keep them going.
When did you, or anybody commenting here about WHT being a charity last send them a donation and fill in a gift-aid form so that the could claim back the tax on that donation?
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They are not a public body in the same way that the highways agency, the DVLA, EdExcel, the Potato Council, TSW, and the 100′s of other “private” companies are not public bodies – they receive an awful lot of money in one form or another from the government and / or local authorities and act as the de facto arm of government in one way or another.
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Well there’s a surprise; Mr Nosnail has managed to throw in yet another “well researched” anti public sector rant at a story. Are you even aware that Wrekin Housing Trust is a private organisation, and is therefore not under the local authority’s control in its dealings?
Your attempts at “clever, look at me I’m so cynical” comments against the public sector, are becoming frankly very boring and predictable.
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Boring and predictable, much in the same way as my hard earned money has been boringly and predictably funding bloated public largesse for too many years.
I am not against the public sector, per se, I am against waste within the public sector – including “charities” who main source of income is taxpayers’ money. And to me, at least, THW and others are there to provide decent housing at decent cost, not to enquire as to what type of person their tenants decide to have sexual relations with.
To have employees create forms that ask questions that have nothing to do with housing indicates to me that there’s a job within that charity that could be cut away, freeing up more money available to meet the charity’s aims.
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Actually Rodney are those jobs that don’t need doing or are they jobs you don’t understand? You see this tub thumping about “non-jobs” usually occurs from a position of ignorance so it would help if you could outline shy you think that those jobs are no-jobs by outlining which part of their roles you think are a waste of time.
Of course they do look suspiciously like the ones flagged up in todays papers – surely though you wouldn’t be commenting on things you know nothing about would you??
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I’m so sorry, Freddie, I thought that I had made my position clear as regards the “job” that I feel doesn’t need doing, but I’m happy to reiterate as to where I feel that the non-job is in this case:
It is the non-job within a housing charity that creates a maintenance /cleaning form that asks what gender of person you favour having sexual relations with.
And yes, regardless of all the helpful comments from others, I still don’t understand why that non-job would need to be done and yes, I am ignorant of why this job function would have created. So yes, it probably is true that I know nothing about the type of job within a charity that asks such questions – that’s why I comment, to give others a chance to make it clear to me. But truth to tell, I’m still none the wiser about how one’s sexual orientation would have any bearing on whether one is happy with the cleaning service or not.
I would prefer that the money spent on such a non-job be channelled into contributing to providing decent housing at decent cost for those that need it.
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If people are that concerned with this question, why not try something really radical and not answer it… Problem solved
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Does it actually say “are you gay or straight”, or is this sensationalising a non-story? If it says something like do you consider yourself to be ‘heterosexual’ ‘homosexual’ ‘bisexual’ ‘other’ or ‘prefer not to say’ – why is this any more or less intrusive of questions we are all asked on every questionaire about race, gender or relegious belief…?
Yawn…
And Brian – being straight isn’t ‘Normal’, it’s just common!
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and does it also ask about gender and ethnicity?
All local authority and government surveys do,
as do many surveys from private organisations who wish to build up a picture of their target market/demographic.
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Why is this any more or less intrusive than being asked about relegious belefs and ethnic origin? Most surveys I fill in ask that.
If the article is correct, and the survey says are you gay or straight – then yes, that is a stupid question, as those people who consider themselves bisexual or even assexual may be a little offended…!
On the other hand, I expect that this is just a sensationalist exaggerated piece of churnalism!
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i had also recieved one of these questionaires and wasnt impressed in being asked those questions when its just abouy my block i found it quite offensive if im honest why the need to know what sexuality you are it has nothing to do with the cleaning and windows and cleaniness of blocks and communal areas it also asked if you was classed to be a transgender ??? why ask that it felt like the council is tryin to single out the people who was a different sexuality and gender for god sake its just about services!!!! not what goes on behind your doors!!
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God, get over it, surly you have more pressing matters to deal with…..
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Juke,
why call Mags “surly”, maybe a little miffed but “Surly”? Bit strong!
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Simple spelling error there Andy, sadly it happens, when your in a rush.
I don’t feel this comment is strong, i think it is totally appropriate, quite simply if you don’t like it, throw it away, sounds like Mags, has nothing better to do with her time.
Same with all the other making pathetic cimments, there are people starving and dying of incurable conditions, why are you making such a fuss?!?!
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You could always just write “NA” next to the question.
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Totally agree, or simply throw it away if your not interested in answering.
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this is pathetic, and all of u who dont see that this question is intrusive are stupid. I think its just a way for landlords to discriminate against gays.. I know that its harder for a gay person to get a housing agreement. I know its harder to get accepted for alot of things if you admit u r gay, this is not right. This is insane and a waste of paper. Grow up you fools who think its important to know! for godsake grow up! Im gay and proud of it and this just lit the fire! I am out raged and appauled!
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Biggest load of rubbish i have ever heard, these people really don’t have a clue what they are on about!
Im sure your MP would be intested in hearing this allagation, and i pretty sure if they investigated such a silly comment you would be laughed at!
Gay/straight, what ever i couldn’t care less, we are all the same!
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Yes, Juke, we’re all the same, so why don’t you condemn a question that seeks to define and accentuate our differences rather than not caring less?
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I think the point is to ensure that there is no discrimination happening, rather than the other way around.
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But it’s not possible to discriminate until you know the answers, Dolly.
If the question has never been asked before, how would they have been able to discriminate?
Asking the question enables a discriminative environment. Not asking it does not.
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Dolly is absolutely right. The reason that these sort of questions are asked is to determine that the company is dealing with a broad range of customers, from a variety of backgrounds.
I’ve not seen the form, but I imagine they might also ask questions about age group, ethnic origin, religion etc. The reason that many private companies do this is simply to ensure that they are staying within anti-discrimination legislation, and not discriminating against any group – even inadvertently. Surveys such as these provide an auditable record in the event of any claim to the contrary.
If, for example the firm had employed someone who was a racist or anti-gay or ageist, and who was treating some of the customers differently to others (and we all know such people exist) this sort of survey would help identify the problem. So it’s partly good customer service, partly protection against possible litigation.
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‘And called on others to also make their feelings heard’ Why do you people have to be so offended about such a question. surely it could be taken with a pinch of salt, is it just to get thier ‘hard done’ by picture in the paper.
The newapapers are full of them nearly everday.
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Harry, your comment is brill, totally agree, shouldn’t these people be worrying about much more concerning issues>
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This matter was raised on Jim Hawkins Show on Radio Shrops today, it seems the party concerned heads a PR company, nothing like boosting your image at no cost to yourself
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Totally agree Barbara
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I think If I was asked about race, gender, or religious belief on a survey that was supposed to decide whether the cleaners in my building come once or twice a week, I would also be upset.
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Whether the question is justified or not I don’t know – didn’t the Star try to find out why the question was asked? Isn’t that the sort of investigation we expect from a newspaper?
What I think is odd that the Star singles out a ‘grandmother’. Why is it important that the woman (maybe in her 50s) is described that way? Don’t grandparents have sex? (I do.) I know swingers her age and older. So what’s the point?
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They should have explained why they are asking. These days public organisations are required by law to prove that they provide services that DON’T discriminate, so they try to find out if their clients are gay (or from an ethnic minority, disabled etc) because then they can show whether it is worth spending extra money on resources relating particularly to people of that ‘group’. EG if there are a lot of people with disabilities they might want extra training for their staff on how properties might be adjusted for disabled people. If they don’t explain that, it just looks weird and suspicious I agree! And they should also allow the person to complete it anonymously because the information isn’t allowed by law to be linked to individuals (precisely because it is personal). So I think its a good thing really, but it needs to be handled much more sensibly so people are reassured that this private info is both anonymously stored and only to be used for good, positive reasons.
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hi on a recent phone call to the wrekin housing trust i was also asked to update some details about myself and my girlfriend .. i was asked if i was gay or straight and also asked if i had ever lived as a woman .lol
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and your point is?….
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Juke,
his point is he is LIVING with his girlfriend, is that not a clear indicator he is not gay?
And if he was and wanted to keep it secret surely he would have just lied anyway…
So the question becomes rather pointless does it not?
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but as they say, assume wil make an “ass” out of both “u” and “me”
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‘Why would they need to know unless they want to discriminate?’ people ask – a logical point, but by that same logic, we’d never ask people’s race, faith, age, gender, income etc in surveys.
As someone who works in research, I can assure you its not snooping, its that we want to understand if all groups give the same responses. If more elderly people are unhappy with a service than everyone else, or more Asian people, even if we can’t think of a logical reason why that should be the case, then those providing services need to know about it and see if they can address the problem.
I do agree that sexuality can seem like one that wouldn’t have any impact, and we discourage councils we work with from asking unless its clearly relevant. However, it is an ‘equality strand’ like the others, so public bodies have a duty to make sure those groups aren’t disadvantaged (or indeed over-advantaged) and therefore councils often want to know about this in the data that’s collected.
So, it may feel like a personal, invasive and irrelevant question, but it should just be like asking about other aspects of people’s identities – all information which helps people who plan services to find out whether specific groups are having a better or worse experience than others.
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Yes, yes, yes, finally a sensible person, with sensible reasoning and comments! Totally hit it there Rob, im sure the Trust only wants to understand people, people should be grateful for all the excellent services they provide to their tenants not shooting them down at any/every oppertunity.
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Aahh, and now we get down to it!
So you are an employee of WHT then? Explains the poor spelling and grammar!
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Andy, that was SOOO obvious from the start…lol
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Nice try, but im not no, i do work for an organisation that asks similar questions though.
Can i ask why you would mention spelling and grammer Andy? What has this got to do with sexual orientation?
I think it’s a bit harsh, so your implying that all employees at the Trust can not spell and have poor grammer? I think that is a terrible comment to make! I wouldn’t have thought for one moment the Trust would employ general idiots.
You reckon my comment to Mags was strong, your comment above is wrong and strong!
This is not a formal nor offical document, this is a free text comment box, it dosen’t matter how you write it, it’s about your opinion and getting it accross!
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Funny, sadly Road runner, you are wrong!
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Im guessing that this grandmother who runs her own PR company for other housing associations and public bodies who ask the same questions of their customers no longer wishes to work for such “stupid” (her wording)companies?
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As a gay man I love that more organisations are asking these kinds of questions. It shows they care.
It tells local authorities, organisations etc where to direct their services; it shows organisations if certain people aren’t making the most of them; and it makes sure that you get the right slice of what you’re paying for. Things will never change without good information. It’s all about getting services right.
Generally when these kinds of questions are asked the information is dealt with away from your personal information. Personal information is kept personal and questions about sexuality, ethinicity, gender, religion etc are dealt with for statistical reasons. Any details that are given are bound by the data protection act.
If you don’t fill in the form and then find
that no one’s thought about YOUR needs,
well, you can hardly complain, can you?
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Your right, companies should care, we are all the same and deserve the very best treatment and need to be recognised for who we are and what we believe xxx
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You still not answered why you think asking this question alters anything? Yeah companies should care, however we all should be treated as one individual and not dependant on classes, race, sexuality etc
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Benji:
“Any details that are given are bound by the data protection act”
Well that’s reassured me! Glad to know that the act stops such information getting out into the wrong hands. Heaven knows what would happen if the holders of this information lost a laptop, posted an unencrypted CD with all of the data on only to be lost, or a disgruntled employee sells or gives the information away…
Glad to know “The Act” is stopping that from happening :)
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I really think Elaine needs to get a life, why are you making a fuss over nothing.
get real, most companies if they haven’t already will be following suit, id love to see her disgruntled face when she opens her post and gets one from SKY or Virgin media, i wonder if she will make a big hoo ha to them also!
Sounds to me like shes a typical cereal moaner!
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And finally Juke…
I have not read anywhere of Elaine raising a grievance against Kellogs or any other manufacturer of breakfast material for that matter…
This is to do with a housing association and nothing at all to do with Tony the Tiger!
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Juke, are you a comedian or work for WHT or both ?…I would stick to comedy as my day job….lol
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You guys should be concentrating on the comments not the spelling.
I work for a company in Wolves, sadly ive looked into a comedian role but i get paid a fortune in my job and i think ill stick to that.
Thanks for the comment though lol
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Ah, by Wolves, I imagine that you mean Wolverhampton, Juke. In which case, Bromford Housing Association springs immediately to mind.
From your comments, you sound as if you would fit well into that hotbed of class action warriors. And the “getting paid a fortune” (courtesy of the taxpayer, naturally), sounds about par for the course as well.
Champagne socialism at its very best.
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I can’t believe you would just assume where someone works?
Also try to shoot them down and add nasty offensive comments for their own beliefs and opinions – shocking!
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It appears that, these sort of “companies” can afford to employ people with “Poor” literacy skills and yet pay them “a fortune” and then go on to produce “rubbish” questioneres…beyond belief!
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Are you saying every one who works for the Housing Trust has poor literacy skills?
Personally i think that is terrible remark and it is completely untrue!
I feel you should keep your stereotypical comments to yourself!
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Perhaps they offer them cottages?
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I really need to know now where Juke works!
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Really? Why is that Ad?
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After moving from Shrewsbury to Aberdeen, and living here happily for 10 years, I find the two cultures very different. Being an out and proud gay man does it make us more particular about our cleaning? I dont think it does. As if being a gay man/women means you are cleaner than a straight man/women???? We can all clean but it depends on health, safety and hygiene, not the colour of your skin, sexual “preference”, religious belief etc, and to be honest who cares??
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Questions like this and indeed question about race, etc, exist because of an organisations need to protect itself from the awful compensation culture of this country. When the inevitable allegation arises that “they didn’t fix my tap because I’m gay/ black/ Asian/ lesbian (deleate as appropriate)”, they have statistics to prove otherwise. People need to chill out in this country – watch your blood pressure!
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Brimindo,
Am I missing something here?
If the WHT doesn’t know if someone is black/gay/lesbian etc (which they only would by the answers to this ridiculous form), then how can they be accused of being discriminating?
On the other hand if they do know, they have no excuses in that case and so have shot your argument down in flames….unless you are suggesting that gay/black/lesbians, would get better treatment, in order for the allegations not to happen.
Is this the case then?
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Instead of taxpayers needing to watch our bloodpressure, I think we instead, need to watch for how many “non jobs” are in existence, designing pointless forms with pointless questions.
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