MERC it was suggestions put forward from all ages and all sectors who live,work,spend money,pay their taxes etc who have an interest in shrewsbury town center also I sure most ideas would be need to be funded by the private sector who else do you expect to get the country out of the mess it is in now ? , a bunch of old aged pensioners who have nothing else better to do now because all of the community ed classes have been scrapped.

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The ice rink is not such a mad scheme take a look at telfords.

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A temporary ice rink for the xmas period in The Square – what a fantastic idea. Is Shrewsbury brave enough to take on some of these suggestions?

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A temporary ice rink in the square over the Christmas period isn’t such a crazy idea, other towns do it, why not shrewsbury. A quick look on the internet and you will find plenty of companies providing this service. This also applies to the outdoor cinema idea. I don’t see why shrewsbury shouldn’t have these kinds of attractions.

“Anybody reading this article will struggle to take the group seriously. Understandably so.” Sam, maybe you should join the group and comment on the ideas you approve and disagree with.

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How exciting, something fun to look forward too. Great ideas, i just hope that they get approval. It would be nice to have more going on in the Square all year round though.

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Fantastic idea to have an ice rink in the square… why not have a German Christmas market on Pride Hill?

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It’s not the voice of a single resident though, it’s on behalf of a Facebrook group joined by over 2000 residents where views and ideas are shared.

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I disagree Adam23,

This group speaks for so many of the frustrated Shrewsbury residents and visitors. The members that have joined the group over the short period that it’s been in action supports this greatly. Your opinion is welcome too, just join the group and voice your opinions, help the group speak for everyone.
I understand that Elliot is the moderator for the group, he is one of many people who are frustrated, who took a step to make things happen, put everyones ideas into action. Wouldn’t you rather this then the ideas of a bias group of residents who want to keep Shrewsbury just the way they want it, Squeezing the life out of somewhere that has so much more to offer.
I think what this group has done for the residents of Shrewsbury is great, giving us a voice and a chance to take part in shaping the town’s future!
Well done!
Beckie

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Hello

I fully support the efforts of Elliot and Eleanor Howells and how they have facilitated a discussion on what residents do and don’t want from the town to which they pay taxes for, live in etc.

Sam, I think you particularly have taken the group and comments made out of context. You made a pretty cutting remark; ‘exactly how old is Mr. Howells’. I think the pragmatics of such a question was slightly unfair and of course… every argument has a counterargument. Elliot and the group have never tried to challenge anyone who disagrees with their opinions and ideas. Quite the contrary in fact. As he said, by default he is the moderator *of the facebook group* and he has allowed everyone to leave their opinion; for or against.

On a really positive note, I think it’s just amazing that somebody has taken the time and cared so much for this town that they have actually recruited the best part of 3000 people who now have a voice. Voices that would never had been heard before hand.

Why shouldn’t we have a say in the entertainment we are provided in our town? (N.B. that was a rhetorical question)

Plenty of other towns, smaller and with less beauty and history attached, are trying these innovative new approaches to entertainment and the arts and have been entirely successful. This article doesn’t even scratch the tip of the iceberg when it comes to wonderful ideas that have been communicated and debated by the group.

Let’s not question ideas and get personal; let’s embrace the fact that in a time when most people care very little about their community, a huge cross section of the town are now having ‘their say’ and standing up against the O.A.P’s that make the call on ‘young people’s’ entertainment. It’s madness. ‘Turn that racket down?’… C’mon!

Round of applause from me. Keep up the absolutely awesome work. We should celebrate this group and The Howells.

H

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An ice rink would be great for the town, it’s great fun would save going to Telford. I think the group is a very positive place. I am 61 but love to skate, hope it happens.

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these are stupid ideas, no one will build them here because the population is too small to sustain those facilities profitably there is an ice rink in telford and its council run proving the point that it has to be subsidised to work even there, also the cinema in shrewsbury is great little old building in the Square thats a local shrewsbury solution not an idea imported from the USA, a cinema outdoors in UK weather, yeah right what a bright idea that is

HAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA nutters

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I apologise Sam.. I misquoted you! That was Merc.

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DO WE??? says who?? i want a pretty little medieval town with cafes and trees and parks and pleasant clean quiet cobbled streets , i dont want modern stuff for kids go to telford for that

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Sam, I can’t find anything on the facebook group that would raise such concerns. The discussions and ideas put forward by members seem reasonable.

As for the comments on here, i simply stuck up for the ice rink idea and suggested that you join the facebook discussions and have your say. Your reaction seemed a little unfair. I would love to hear your ideas on how to take the group forward and welcome everyone to comment. I understand not everyone wants change in shrewsbury, but it would be nice to achieve a friendly discussion.

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I have followed the facebook group from the beginning and I am familiar with all of the ideas discussed.

I can only re-emphasize my support for the group, yet admittedly, I am perhaps not 100% impressed with the manner in which the group confronts its questions. It was unfortunate that merc chose to open the discussion in such a childish tone because beneath the immaturity, there was a very valid point.

I take the point about a ‘right to reply’, and there is also something to be said for maintaining a presence but really, the group leaders would do better not to get dragged into this kind of thing and concentrate their efforts on moving any projects forward.

Ultimately, this is the point I was alluding to earlier.

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I have tried to be constructive throughout this discussion.

Apologies to anybody if this has come across as rude, argumentative or mean spirited. (see Biggsy’s reply to comment 31). I believe I have been misinterpreted.

I can’t help feeling that any comments which are not entirely positive are not greatly received. Is it not OK to have some reservations? I am 24, a huge supporter of live music and the arts, and keen to see Shrewsbury offer more to people of my age. Unfortunately, my own opinion of the group has been changed by this discussion despite my support for their mission.

I will leave it there.

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It would certainly be difficult to wholly defend what appears to be the vehemently restrictive approach of STCRA. Yet Mr and Mrs Howells’ response is problematic, requiring a radical rethink.

Essentially, or at least as far as I understand the issue based upon a few news articles and fairly inflammatory postings upon yet another Facebook page, Mr and Mrs Howells have made a few discoveries. They are victims – like pretty much all of us they pay council tax and they have now ‘discovered’ that such payments should translate into opportunities to consume leisure. They have also travelled all the way to the New World, no doubt making a few stops along the way. In the process they have discovered the concept of place, but here they have become confused. They seem to think that because place is (obviously) a universal, it should be possible to transform any specific place into whatever takes their fancy. Wishes and greed: SCAT should magically morph into Hogwarts, The Quarry should host Glastonbury Festival every other Sunday, Wyle Cop should lead to Disneyland, and in line with Mrs Howells’ devotion to New York, there is no reason why Mardol should not intersect Times Square. Little wonder that so many people would sign up to their Facebook page. Fantastical promises tend to promote themselves, but it is perhaps worth noting that signing up to a website takes little effort and in itself does not constitute a social movement. There is worse to come:

Mr and Mrs Howells argue that Shrewsbury suffers (as do they) at the hands of the malevolent and oppressive STCRA. This perhaps would have some limited validity and could open up the possibility of dialogue. But something else occurs instead. Their Facebook page rapidly becomes home to an unacceptable level of expressions of prejudice. Namely, it transpires that STCRA is merely the front for a larger oppressive force – older people. Older people, it seems, have too much power. They need to be reminded of their place. They are walking zombies sucking the life out of the town centre. Such willingness to utilise what is obviously bigotry for their cause only highlights that what Mr and Mrs Howells have in mind is nothing close to cultural participation. Very specifically they are interested in consuming leisure. There is no attempt to really engage with possibilities of social cohesion and collective wellbeing. Mr Howells, judging by his age, merely wishes to revisit popular indie hits of the 90s. Mrs Howells wants the town to provide the leisure opportunities of New York – presumably she will not sleep until she has developed an international stock exchange for the town.

So, a bit of a jolt and rethink needed. STCRA is not responsible for the rise of retirement accommodation in the town centre. Local authority planning departments are limited in what they can and cannot allow, despite the evident assumptions underlying Mr and Mrs Howells’ ‘thinking’. Cultural consumerism is not the same as cultural participation. If forced to choose (and I really would rather not be forced but these people are hardly offering much choice) I would choose STCRA because despite their obvious failings it strikes me that notions of inclusion and participation do feature in their approach, albeit in rather limited ways. What could have been a great opportunity for a dialogue of inclusion and engagement with STCRA falls into hostility and aggression.

And presumably Mr and Mrs Howells have not suddenly come into existence over the last few weeks. They have enthusiastically thrown themselves into the public arena as though their presence in Shrewsbury provides them with a license to express their views unchallenged, all in the name of local democratic practice. But the public arena doesn’t work like that, and I end up wondering what affiliations, local history, connections and self-interest might reside close to the heart of all this nonsense. I should add that it is not my wish to embarrass anyone, and anyway I doubt there is an expose in the offing. Still, I am rankled by what amounts to a hostile assault that seems to believe it can steam ahead unquestioned, silently endorsing prejudice.

As a courtesy I should add that I live in Shrewsbury but do not work locally. I am here for perhaps another year whilst completing a piece of work in the field of cultural policy, and I am a former contributor to the BCCC. My neighbours are both single, vulnerable older people who certainly do not limit my leisure activities. Actually it is they who have limited and difficult lives, leaving me feeling ashamed that I don’t do enough, even in small ways, to help them.

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Dan Sands

Oh thank goodness you have entered the discussion, oh praise be that you saw fit to really understand and grasp what the group is trying do.
Yes you are wholly correct, yes Mr & Mrs Howells as you stated have travelled all the way to the New World, no doubt making a few stops along the way.
They seek to make all the changes that you mentioned

“SCAT should magically morph into Hogwarts, The Quarry should host Glastonbury Festival every other Sunday, Wyle Cop should lead to Disneyland, and in line with Mrs Howells’ devotion to New York, there is no reason why Mardol should not intersect Times Square”

Thank the heavens that you haven’t exaggerated!

And of course they are not speaking on behalf of a group of people nonono they are purely out for wishes and greed.

Thank you Mr & Mrs Howells for having courage to start this group and to see it through. It is unfortunate that the likes of Dan Sands and others, do not seem to grasp what this group is all about and see fit to direct their negativity and diatribes at you both.

I reiterate my thanks to both of you and to others working on this group behind the scenes to try and make a positive difference to Shrewsbury. For giving other residents a voice and for standing up when others don’t have the confidence.

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50 comments on this article so far (although Dan Sands obviously felt that his social commentary was so important he felt the need to post it twice). Most of the responses have been enthusiastic, positive and supportive (from all ages). Not bad for a bunch of nutters with stupid ideas eh Sally (#22)?

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Frank, thank you for your response. I will think of ‘Flakes’ when reading your future posts.

It is true: my tone is patronising. This often happens when people are forced to point out the obvious. Believe me when I state that I have felt nothing but reticence in entering into this discussion. But unfortunately my concerns have not received any response. To point out the obvious, there are self-evidently hostile and bigoted views of older people posted on Mr Howell’s Facebook page. These by no means make up the exclusive content, but their presence suggests that Mr Howells has failed as a moderator, or that such views form one part of the group’s manifesto.

Further, in her first appearance in The Chronicle, Mrs Howells specifically praises the leisure facilities of New York in a way that, without the need for any interpretative descent into fiction, seeks parity with leisure services in Shrewsbury. You may not like my response but surely you cannot simply argue that this is not the case because you happen to dislike it.

And it does matter how things are done, and who does them. On his Facebook page Mr Howells claims that things were a great deal better in Shrewsbury until about fifteen years ago. He does not tell us what happened. He does not tell us what he has been trying to do about this cataclysmic event for the last fifteen years. He does not tell us whether he has done anything so perhaps he has watched and waited until he can stand it no more. If this is the case he does not seem to have noticed the exemplary work of people whose names are noticeably absent from his campaign. People who work tirelessly to improve the town, to help individuals and groups, who are concerned with participation and wellbeing (especially with and for young people) and who no doubt sacrifice what would be promising careers in the private sector. Has he consulted with anyone other than family and friends before embarking upon his mission to get gigs and ice rinks? Why do these things matter so much? Why should the local authority be beholden to provide all of us with what we like?

There is a basic conflation occurring: ‘what I like’ = ‘it is good’. This is simply unreal thinking. The local authority is eternally trapped in a balancing act that inevitably will not please everyone. Limited resources must confront an array of complex responsibilities. Thus they have responsibility for lots of things that I cannot say I exactly like, and I am certain that I do not benefit directly from any of these. But I am sure they make my life better because they make the lives of people around me better. Let’s take an example: mental health services for younger people. I don’t use them directly or indirectly but I am very pleased they exist. And in this progressively difficult socioeconomic climate I would much rather our local authority focused upon this kind of stuff. Would it be too much to ask Mr and Mrs Howells whether they think such services are of more benefit than gigs? Or do Mr and Mrs Howells occupy a world in which only the things they like, use and want are of any use.

They want consumer leisure opportunities and they perceive a demand. As Mr Howells is a businessman why does he resist looking at his discovery as a business opportunity? Why does he instead insist upon assigning blame to STCRA? I am not aware that they are currently preventing him from developing any such endeavour.

And to make it all a bit more personal, I am well aware that I am in a fairly privileged position. I have an interesting job, live where I want to and get to do the things I want to do. That is, in no small way, a luxurious way of life. I’m into krautrock but I do not expect the local authority to provide me with matching leisure opportunities! I would much rather they continue, in a number of partnerships, their efforts to empower disenfranchised members of the community. Shrewsbury has some quite serious social problems that I assume Mr and Mrs Howells know about but have no interest in, given that they see the town’s salvation in gigs and festivals. I am not going to present anyone with a catalogue here, however I assume these people have actually undertaken some, even if only nominal, research.

On this point I also assume they are armed to the teeth with empirical evidence that acquiescence to their demands would actually result in tangible, measurable benefits. As a professional researcher and lecturer at a RG university (with a focus upon cultural policy) I can promise that no local authority is going to back a project without clear and measurable outcomes.

Apologies for the previous double posting – bit of a mouse clicking issue. As Mr Howells is a thirty-something businessman and in thirty-something speak business almost always refers to something in IT, perhaps he could come up with a solution. Although given his approach to leisure I imagine he would advise amputation.

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