Teen beauty spot drinkers are ramblers, not rebels
- Dave Burrows
Letter: Why I listened to Bob Dylan rather than pray
Monday 21st June 2010, 7:00AM BST.
His Bobness: Councillor Pat McCarthy defends his decision to listen to the great man rather than take part in the Lord's Prayer at a meeting of Wellington Town Council
Councillor Pat McCarthy, from Wellington, listening to music with his headphones
Letter: I am starting to get a little worried about the state of mind of some of your letter writers.
Mr Richards from Madeley got in a real lather when he wrote “Now get on with the job you are supposed to be doing. That of being an English local councillor in a Christian country.”
He obviously feels very insecure about this notion of England being a Christian country. This is hardly surprising since only six per cent regularly attend Church services.
But, to refresh Mr Richards’ mind, my motion to the Wellington Council was not a threat to their prayer service but a request that I and others should not have to sit through it in order to attend our secular council business.
The “tolerant” Conservative Christians who sit on the council would not even debate this and that was why the news media were interested. I have never solicited the attention of the press over this issue. There is a minority of Wellington residents who feel at home reciting the Lord’s Prayer in public. Most, however, like me, feel hypocritical but do it, when in a church service, so that they do not offend friends and family.
By the way, Name and Address Supplied, I have no problem with Bob Dylan being a Born again Christian – I don’t hold his religious conversion against him. I’m more impressed with his music.
Cllr Patrick McCarthy
Telford
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I simply couldn’t agree more with this councillor’s comments.
Why, when many of us have chosen to live in the UK’s most ‘Godless Town’* (because it is that, are we being dictated to by an insignificant Christian minority?
And why are we electing so many Christians (who quite obviously have their own protectionist agendas) into local office?
Following this scenario he next time I am asked to vote for a local councillor my first question is going to be about their religious beliefs.
* SOURCE: ..Telford, in Shropshire, where fewer than one in 100 residents is a regular Anglican churchgoer – The Times 28.01.09
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Just because only 6% attend church do not assume that the vast majority of the UK are not christians . As for feeling a hypocrit saying the lords prayer with in a church service, may i ask why are you there? if you are not a christian for what reason would you be in a church? funeral? why as far as a non christian is concerned its all twaddle so why attend a funeral? infact why attend anything that takes place in a church as it is rather clear you have no respect for peoples beliefs as if you had you would have just sat still kept your trap shut as it only takes 15 seconds. But NO you chose to publicity seek and play your tunes.Honesty is required here .
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To an atheist, a church is just a building and a prayer is just a poem. Attending a wedding, christening or funeral in a church is done out of respect for the people who chose the church as a venue, which is far better than choosing not to attend simply because we don’t subscribe to the notion of a faith system without there being evidence to support it.
As for suggesting that Councillor McCarthy has no respect for other people’s belief’s: surely it’s the other way around. The other council members appear happy to trample over other people’s beliefs/absence of belief by insisting that monotheistic rituals be held *during* official council time when they could very easily do this in private before the session starts, which is the perfectly reasonable compromise that Cllr McCarthy has already put forward.
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[Just because only 6% attend church do not assume that the vast majority of the UK are not christians]
Why not Andrew?
As for not attending funerals, one goes to a funeral out of respect for the deceased and kindness to relatives not because one is necessarily religious.
It is a massive move forward that we can actually marry somewhere nice now. When I got married the Registry Office was at the Crown Court in Shrewsbury and it was like a punishment for not being religious.
Its previous position in Belmont was better, my sister in laws photos in 1976 all being taken by old St Chads. Is she religious, no but she liked an attractive backdrop to her wedding photos.
Now at long last funerals are getting to be more a celebration of a persons life and there is a lot more choice for those not wanting the religious send off.
Of course the church is trying to compete and if you made your vows but changed your mind as many so called christians do, you can get blessed second time round in a church.
Its a win win situation if you are christian really. Get to confirm your place just in case, as someone said earlier but do what you like and be forgiven. I wish having strong morals and a real conscience were that easy.
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Hmmm wonder how many of the good god fearing councilors attend church regularly on a sunday, not that many i’ll be bound.
If councilor McCarthy choses to listen to bob dylan instead of the lords preyer that is his choice, just so long as he does his job to the best of his ability, that is all I ask of him.
Andrew Finch, do you honestly believe that people go to church weddings or funnerals because it has anything to do with religion, I don’t think so, I go to say goodby to a friend or for the prelude for a good booz-up.
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Question: god, who is he?
The answer: Mr. Death.
By the way keep Bob Dylan-the Born again Christian-to yourself, and to all the Christian guys.
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Andrew, if you resent the publicity Pat is getting, why do you go on flogging this if-not-dead-then-very-poorly horse?
Most people on here would have agreed, more or less, that Pat is well within his rights – and moved on.
Still, if you want to attract more and more comments disagreeing with you, carry on. Can’t see what you get out of it myself, you won’t change any minds. Or are you hoping you’ll get your picture in the paper too?
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You do not need to attend a funeral to show respect to the person who has died. Why attend and indulge in somthing you do not believe in? .As for rallyboy a prelude for a good booze up tesco comes to mind on that one .
Speaking as some one who is not over religious I do not see the need to put those who are down or ridicule which the antis etc always do to try and get the upper hand. So next time I attend a council meeting and prayers are being said I will jump up do an irish jig , back summer sault and sing yankee doodle dandi. All for no reason other than publicity.
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Mr. McCarthy,
Just want to say you have EXCELLENT taste in music!!!
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Of course, Councillor McCarthy could just have kept silent and ignored the prayer. As I suspect many other councillors do. But there’d be no publicity in that.
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I wonder if Mr McCarthy would attend a church wedding and listen to his ipod throughout?
Thought not.
So glad I dont live in Wellington with a man like that as my representative.
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What a ridiculous analogy.
As a councillor, Cllr. McCarthy is required to attend council sessions. As a guest at a wedding he would be there voluntarily.
It is reasonable to expect religious rituals to be carried out at a church wedding. Conversely, it is totally unreasonable to expect religious rituals at a secular public service meeting.
Cllr McCarthy’s unobtrusive, quiet, personal protest has highlighted a practice that really should be stamped out in a public service setting.
I wouldn’t mind betting that there would be public outcry, demonstrations and angry mobs if Wellington Council consisted of mainly Muslim, Sikh, Jewish or Pagan followers who insisted on praying to their respective deities (or equivalent) during official meetings – and the key to this is the word *during*… not before, not afterwards, but *during*.
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“I wouldn’t mind betting that there would be public outcry, demonstrations and angry mobs if Wellington Council consisted of mainly Muslim, Sikh, Jewish or Pagan followers who insisted on praying to their respective deities (or equivalent) during official meetings ”
Of course there would be we live in the uk which is C of E end of the matter realy .
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Maybe that’s your England, Andrew. For most of us, it’s been a multicultural, multi-faith country for decades. As Bob Dylan himself said, “The Times They Are a-Changin’”.
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good on him i say we are secular!
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[So next time I attend a council meeting and prayers are being said I will jump up do an irish jig , back summer sault and sing yankee doodle dandi. All for no reason other than publicity.]
I don’t think you will find that will be the outcome but I’m sure that you will be removed with as much dignity as possible.
Have you ever considered counselling?
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I should happily dance a jig and sing Yankee Doodle during any religious mumbo jumbo that I were forced to sit through through civic convention. Superstition has no part in in the life of a rational man or the governance of a free society, but music and dancing are part of our humanity.
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I agree in some respects Stephen but this councillor has chosen, quite rightly in my view, not to be rude but to make a point which he clearly has.
He has brought to everyone’s attention that this particular matter has been decided upon by those who choose to be councillors. The people who acheive this position (nowadays a rather nice little earner) by and large are not very representative of the population.
How does that affect us on matters of real importance?
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I think just a very cheap publicity stunt if he were put in front of the queen of England the head of the church of England in a religious setting he would bow , pray, and go through the motions all for an obe,cbe,or whatever these councillors aim are.
As for Jakes we live in a multi bla bla , multi faith bla bla clearly jake is unaware of the religious apartheid that runs through our capital and other major cities and has done for decades upon decades.
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“I think just a very cheap publicity stunt if he were put in front of the queen of England the head of the church of England in a religious setting he would bow , pray, and go through the motions all for an obe,cbe,or whatever these councillors aim are.”
…and you know that do you – perhaps you’ve discussed it with him?
I’ve known Pat for years and I can assure you he’d do no such thing, so perhaps you’re just telling us what you would do in that situation?
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Ok ROB you no him oh goody so give us an answer, would he would pop bobbie dylan on would or just sit there and keep his trap shut, or go through the motions, or not attend he only gets 4 options which is it????.
As for me im anti ryal far to much of a drain on the UK
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I think you’re asking me a question, but I’m afraid I only understand English.
PS – exactly what have you got against “ryals”?
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Read so much nonsence in these comments that it convinces me that very few understand the meaning of the word religious and the difference of being a christian, get educated you who it referes to,but then most of you think you know all the answers and are educated, start reading and learn.
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#15 A very mysterious and intriguing post :0
Are you a theologian? :p
Are you an easily convinced person?
I do not know this councillor but I do like people who stand up for what they beleive in but also actually say what that is.
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After that mangled, mis-spelled ‘sentence’ I think you should perhaps take your own advice before handing it out.
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AHHH people like kath add nothing to the debate but pick faults with spelling , clearly eve got her point across though.
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I think you will find that Kath was referring to the confusing and rather meaningless post by reeceer, Andrew.
How do I know, bearing in mind I spelt believe wrongly?
Look at the time that the posts were added. ;)
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Quite right eva, thanks – I’d use threaded view, replying directly to a post, but I find I miss recent replies to much earlier posts when people do that.
Must use post numbers or @, consider my knuckles well rapped (or even ‘wrapped’ for those who prefer unconventional spellings :) )
I’m no spelling Nazi, but I do prefer to read posts where there is at least a decent proportion of words I can recognise. If they are in any kind of logical order that’s a bonus.
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tnks 4 d advice K mst b nce 2 b pfct wll cme 2 d clb.
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