so can adults not enjoy the park then??? this is typical of telford

I can't figure out if this is a joke or not. Surely they can't do this. So my husband and I, who don't have children, would have to answer to some random person from the Council and explain why we are there? Will they also ask us where our papers are?

I firmly believe that if you are not breaking the law you have nothing to fear from CCTV cameras.

However the Councils policy to me is totally wrong. On occasions I walk in the park by myself and I would feel it an invasion of my privacy to be approached to ask what I was doing there.

I agree the vulnerable have to be protected but not at this cost surely.

This is the most absurd thing ive ever heard. What is the world coming too? As an "adult" im being told i cannot enjoy the scenery at the park because i dont have any kids with me. If any staff come up to me accusing me of being a paedophile ill stick my boot up there .....

When they Telford Town Park. I take it they mean the area designated as young childrens play area?

Surely anyone walking on the Silkin Way or walking around the lakes for eaxample aren't going to be interogated by "gestapo type" council officials.

This is a scarey scenario. What next, life imprisonment for smiling or saying hello to a child??? Aren't West Mercia police force the people employed to serve and protect people in this area?

This really is beyond a joke. Do Council officials really expect a potential paedophile to disclose their intentions if questioned in the park?

And what happens if a normal walker is unable to give an acceptable excuse for being in the park without a child? Will a response along the lines of " I'm here for a walk in the park" result in them being labelled as a potential sordid fiend and hauled away for questioning?

I find this revelation quite worrying (if accurate, we all know how journalism tends to distort the truth at times), where will it end?

Is there any evidence whatsoever that any such threat exists? This is a public park, and in the great traditions of public parks, it's for adults as well as children! As a taxpayer who helps pay for its upkeep, I absolutely reserve the right to use it.

What a sad indictment of the effect of tabloid hysteria on our daily lives.

I occasionally go to the Town Park with my kids, and I'm sure I'm not alone in feeling slightly awkward about it. If, for example, I sit on a bench adjacent to one of the play areas whilst keeping an eye on them I have found that occasionally people offer sideways looks until they realise I'm with some of the children playing.

The statistics show that our children are at no more risk now from 'perverts' than they ever were - indeed, given the level of awareness amongst children of this potential threat, they're probably less so.

In the 1960's when I was a child, we seemed far more at liberty to go out unaccompanied than the kids of today. Now to some extent this is because of much higher traffic levels now, but regrettably it's also due to the hysteria and hypocrisy of newspapers like the News of the World.

And if anyone question might right to walk or cycle in the Town Park - accompanied by my children or otherwise - they'll get a blunt, two word answer...

Heaven help us if we happen to be carrying a camera as well!

Whilst having sympathy with the Council's concern for the well-being of youngsters, this is a step to far and the "Police State" syndrome gone mad. Fact, nobody has the right to interrogate anybody going about their lawful business in a public place and even with the Police anyone can refuse to answer their questions. This certainly applies to "civilian" council employees and one may well ask the question, what would happen if Joe Bloggs refused to answer the Council employees questions. There is no power of arrest.

This is an idiotic measure that is just one more indication that things have now reached a sorry state in our country which at one time boasted of it's freedoms and liberal democracy.

Well i wouldn't want some perv walkin around there looking at my kid playin would you? I dont blame the council good idea for once !!

outrageous! im all for looking after children BUT people use that park to get to work, home or just for a stroll. So if they do stop a paedophile does the council really believe that said person will turn round and admit this? So now one of the few green places in Telford is being patrolled and anyone who does not have kids will be stopped, interrogated, humiliated and sent on their way...hmmm freedom?

What a sad state of affairs we have!

Council staff quizing people.

What a mess the politicians have created.

What is this country coming to.

It is fine to want to protect the vunerable and I am all for it. But what about the adults who like to have a walk in the local park in the nice weather or those who go to the park in their lunch hours just to eat their sandwiches and enjoy what little sun we get.

Does this infringe the so called Human Rights of the many Law abiding people who live Telford. The park is after all meant to be for the use of the general public not just those with children.

I for one may never bother using the park again as I feel I should not have to explain my reasons for wanting a nice peaceful break away from the office.

Whatever next? Not being allowed to walk through the shopping centre, or not being able to enter a toy shop without a child, or without a very good reason...

How many children have been affected in the town park? I can't remember any stories relating to the Town Park as being a hotbed for paedophilia.

The Stasi are watching you!

I had to check my calender to make sure it wasn't April 1st!!!! (after I stopped laughing)

As if a paedophile is going to hold his hands up and say "Fair cop". No they will say they are amateur phoographers taking snaps of the park - then what will the Council Officials do?

As for "protecting the vunerable" I think that the Council Officials are the vunerable ones when they go upto someone accusing them of being a pervert! I know I wouldn't dare interrogate an innocent adult walking in the park on the pretense that they were perverts!!

To be frank, I can see someone gettng hurt before long - and when it happens, remember where you heard it first!

Isn't this prejudice against childless people? What if an adult wanted to take an elderly wheelchair bound relative out for a walk round for a change of scenery? Madness!

What a sad society we have become, when you cannot walk anywhere without being videod, photographed, and now interrogated.

Is the problem REALLY that bad that we have to treat everyone as though they are criminals?

And I suppose that if you were to take (quite rightly in my opinion) a position of:

"mind your own damn business"

if one were questioned by this new Telford branch of the gestapo, then I expect you'd be arrested for threatening behaviour?

i just cannot believe it is coming to this.

what a disgrace to all adults we have done our bit bring our oun children up bbut are told now we not allowed to walk in the park enjoy a lovely part of telford becouse we will be stopped and asked what we are doing there well in that case telford council please give me a big rebate on my tax as we are going to be resticted i bet the park will only be the begining where NEXT?

It is a good thing to do everything we can to stop peadophiles and it is to be applauded that the council has taken the initiative to do this.

One would hope that they are trained detectives and diplomats of course so that they do not offend the 99.9% of decent people who go to the park area.

I would go further and take photographs of everyone who goes to the park area. Clear un-ambigigous photos that can be used for identification purposes. Perhaps even take fingerprints and dna samples.

Oh hell why not just build over the land and save all the hassle. Who needs a park anyway?

Its a fine line between protecting people and infringing on people's freedom.

What a shame that every single male person who goes to the park is now a suspect and therefore liable to be approached and "spoken to". I would be mortified personally and inclined towards telling them to "go elswhere".

But then I agree that something needs to be done to protect our children.

A mish mash response to this is the best I can muster with no clear single message either of support or rejection. basically stop the peadophiles but offend or restrict me at your peril.

It is a grey area of liberty versus security and I fear that the greater good is correct if it saves one child.

Adults without children will not have to justify why they are there. People acting suspiciously by the children play area will be approached. I think this is quite different form what the Star is reporting - dont believe everything you read in newspapers!!

if they are not a paedophile but are a smack head or a common criminal, will they be allowed to go about their business.

This is absolute madness! From this its a small step down to racial profiling for all sorts of crimes and matching stop and search!

I recently went on a council sponsored photography workshop that took us around the town park showing all sorts of interesting habitats. What is going to happen to me if I am 'caught' walking around the park alone and with a camera! Will I be forced to give over my personal details and have them entered on some secret government database? What if I refuse?

Just another thought after my previous post.

Do our Council really think that this will stop paedophiles. Are they really going to say when questioned "Oh yes I come to the park to look at the young kids"

Not on your life.

The only way to stop them would be to close the park altogether. Now theres a nice easy way to save money and pay themselves even more money for doing very little.

And on what basis are they making this ruling. Has there been a proliferation of reports concerning pedophilia activity in the area or is it just more Big Brother attitude??

So now all adults who wish to have a walk in Telford park are suspected of being a pervert. What has happened to our individual rights to have free & unfettered access to public spaces.

What gives the council the right to stop & question us.

I for one will no longer visit Telford if this is the way I would be treated.

I have grandchildren of my own which i ike to see playing,& to see children at play enjoying themselves is part of the pleasure of living. Are all adults to be denied the pleasure of young people & confined to there houses.

Why restrict it to the Park - surely any adult, anywhere (including their own home), should have to explain their reason for being there - what innocent reason could anyone have for being somewhere without a child?

In fact we'd all be a lot safer if every room in our houses was fitted with 24 hour surveillance cameras

So, as a childless couple we are now under suspicion if we walk in parks. Will we need special permission to use swimming pools, buy from sweet shops and to visit toy shops in the future?

I understand the need to protect young people from a very small minority of undesirables, but please don't make childless couples into freaks or people to be afraid of.

Can't ride bikes? On a CYCLE PATH???!!!

This is actually a digrace and should be challenged, as im sure it would be if such a silly idea came to the quarry in shrewsbury.

what next stop all adults at alton towers who are with out children??? the group of people who thought of this need to be questioned about there motives

Isn't looking for paedophiles the job of the police, not the council? I think we should be told.

You really couldn't make it up.

Perhaps adults should campaign for a separate park where anyone with a child is forbidden to go?

This does seem like absolute madness - what next - will the Council enforce housing rules to ensure that if a family with a child or children is allocated a home next to a single person - the single person will be required to move somewhere else?

May I also remind Telford and Wrekin that Council TAXPAYERS fund the park - if you are denying some of them the chance to use the park perhaps you should also given them a rebate on their tax!

What difference in answer is Telford Council expecting to hear between a paedophile and a non-paedophile when stopped and quizzed about their purpose for being in the park ?

I should hope that members of the public will be asking similarly unaccompanied Council staff (after they've shown their ID of course) whether they've committed any crimes that day and whether they are planning on doing any in the near future ? Of course, to make them feel as uncomfortable as every other poor sod who just happens to be in the park for a stroll, they should also be asked whether they've stopped and quizzed the individual for their own perverted sexual gratification !

Firstly, let me say that anybody who abuses children should be locked up for as long as possible and all reasonable steps should be taken to prevent any harm to our kids.

HOWEVER, I am incensed that the council can introduce such extreme measures in the name of child protection. Do they even have a legal right to 'stop and quiz adults'?

This sounds like the thin end of a VERY dangerous wedge. We have to object to such invasions of our personal freedoms and civil liberties, before normal, law-abiding people lose them completely.

I'd be interested to see the legal angle on this. If someone refused to talk to the park staff and police were called, on what grounds? Sureley they couldn't be arrested or removed by the police just for using a public park while alone? What about an adult couple, i.e man and woman ...are they any less likely to be perverts???

What next stop single adults using the shopping centre because children use it also???

I can see what they are trying to achieve here, and i applaud them for this.

However, does this not slip into the zone of discrimination? Telford, you are playing a very dangerous game.

Back to the dark ages. So one is to be humiliated if they decided to walk through the park. Doesn't the council know that 30+% of the population is single? Idiots!

Is it lawful that anyone other than a serving Police Officer can stop you on a public highway or public place?.

Completely mad. Are we all suspects now ? Have the council got nothing else to do ? Why can't the parents watch out ? If they question me I'll tell them were to go in no uncertain terms !!

They are not saying that nobody other than those with kids can enjoy the park, what they are saying is that they want to ask people their intentions. I personally would have NO problems in being asked what i was doing there, but then i have no paedophilic tendancies and would rather be asked this than risk a kiddy getting molested or worse, killed. Responsible adults would have nothing to fear, only those with alternate intentions should be wary or unhelpful to council officials.

How ridiculous. When I worked in Telford Town Centre I often used to walk alone in the park at lunch time for a break away from the office - it was the only place I could go to get some fresh air! If children aren't old enough to be sensible and look after themselves, they shouldn't be in a park alone and if they are with their parents or a carer then that person should be taking proper care of them! Parks are for everyone, not just children.

My wife and I are outraged that we can’t go to the park without taking our kids along. Why do you need a reason to go to the park? It’s a park, a public place. What right do the council, the people who work for us the simple town folk have over our parks.

We have noticed over the past summer weeks the park wardens seem to be growing in number and levels of misery, unable to break a smile. Happy to use the Internet connections we provide for their own use!!

Think of the extra costs on our already soaring council tax it takes to implement this. How do you know you are talking to someone who works for the park or the council come to that. Anyone posing as a council worker can talk to me or our children and Oh that’s OK is it?

This council needs to clean up it’s thinking and stop trying to tick right boxes for national government figures and look at what the local people they work for want.

So when they ask why an adult is there, and the adult replies that they are 'enjoying a walk in the park', what happens then??? Will this be an acceptable response or will adults enjoying a walk in the park then be kicked out on suspicion they might be a pervert?????

Are they expecting the paedophiles to 'cough up' when challenged as to why theyre there???????????

In a word - Ridiculous !

I can't believe this even though I don't go to the park on my own. Where will this stop? The shopping centre, the football pitches and definately the swimming pools - there's a good one!! Why would an adult want to go swimming on their own?

They have no right to stop adults unless they have a very good reason to do so. It is imperative that we protect the children of today but this is a step too far. If I ever did go to the park and was stopped by these people I can assure them my response would not be very polite!

As someone who has often been, to say the least, somewhat critical of the Star, I would just like to say a very big and heartfelt thankyou for tonight's editorial comment about the lunacy currently prevailing in Telford Town Park.

A well-written plea for reason, decency and commonsense - more of the same please!!

This is unbelievable and unacceptable. A very sad state of affairs. Its just paranoia culture going one step too far.

Can I call for a ban on kids in adult environments - say - pubs? They threaten my good karma with their screeching and squawking when all I want to do is enjoy a beer and a read.

I agree to getting these perverts away from the children, but how about using some serious draconian measures to keep them away. If the law dealt with these sick and vile people properly in the first place, we would not have to punish innocent people. Why dont T&W just put on their nazi armbands and patrol the park suspecting everyone, rather than publicly identifying the purpotrators in the first place.

Can someone lend me a child, I want to carry on walking my dog in the park without fear of being branded!

Heil Hitler you shall not enjoy the park!

Do I get a partial council tax refund then?

Disgraceful. A very backward attitude to be expected of Telford I suppose. The council should be diverting their attentions to reduce the amount of shootings, stabbings, muggings and robberies that seem to grace the pages of the Shropshire Star every day.

As a survivor of childhood sexual abuse, and someone who now spends a lot of time supporting other survivors, I feel that the actions of the Telford council is doing NOTHING to prevent the sexual abuse of children.

Questioning lone adults in a park about their reasons and motives for being there will only serve to alienate people, and create an element of fear amongst innocent people that is both needless and upsetting for the adults questioned.

If the council is serious about preventing the sexual abuse of children then the information they need is easily available, I suggest they read it and not indulge in knee-jerk reactions.

As a 20-year-old, I'm an adult but I still consider myself able to scale that spider's web at the Town Park!

This policy will not make any difference to child welfare and safety. The vast majority of child abusers are family members anyway.

All the Council are achieving by this is making a town which is already very unappealing seem even more so!

This is a very interesting decision made by the council,it has clearly set a precedent where premises owned or operated by them will now require their staff to check upon the credentials and reason of adult persons, male and female, who uses the facilities.You cannot offer a service to one section of the community and not another otherwise that is in effect discrimination.

We all pay our council bills therefore we should all receive a similar service. Whoever thought of this idea, no doubt with the best of intentions, has cost you and me thousands of pounds, but on the plus side it'll take numerous people off the dole to work the places that will have require dawn till dusk monitoring.Isn't it great when a plan comes together.

PS You have to remember also that all the council staff employed will need CRB checks because they may come into contact with children, that includes the current ones.

What a ridiculous state of affairs...so all adults without a child visiting the park are presumed to be paedophiles....surely this is discrimination of the highest order...what a bunch of idiots to approve such stupid procedures. Come on Council get a grip and get into the REAL world.

It would be interesting to see what happened if a female reporter had been sent !!!!!!!!!

If you feel you don't agree with this draconian measure there is a rally at 10:30 on Saturday, 13 September in the Arena in the Town Park against it.

We all want our children to be safe but at the cost of what adults can do in the Park?

If you see a child with a 'parent' screaming its head off, it is OK, it has not been abducted but if you see an adult on their own, they are waiting to abduct a child!!!!

"Be there or be ... (insert your own saying)"

Hilary

Give the kids an ASBO if they are unaccompanied. That'll solve the problem!

I worked for a Child Care Company and the vast majority of paedophiles were family members - known to the victims. So it was perfectly normal for them to take their children out to places to gain satisfaction from whatever. So in the Council staff members eyes they will not be viewing these people as possibly dangerous.

My point again about Council staff is who is monitoring them?

But it is a fact that many paedophiles are people in positions of power/authority - teachers, social workers, police, Judges etc. There are plenty of instances of such cases.

What about Human Rights? Is Telford trying to compete with China?

When the national news media get hold of this will Telford be branded the paedophile capital of the UK? Not a good title to have!

I'M ALL FOR THE IDEA OF A PARK, JUST FOR THE GROWN UP'S "NO KIDS ALLOWED" YIPPPEEEE!!!

Although i'm not from the area I feel that if this is allowed to continue, it is only a matter of time before this Namby Pamby Pinko Liberal attitude spreads to other councils.

As the majority of people on here, I too am all for protecting children but this is just stupid.

So do we as concerned citizens now have the right to ask lone suspicious looking park wardens and council officials what their intentions are whilst being in a park full of kids? I wonder how they'd feel about us having the right to interrogate them?

so sad that we have come to this, there are some very sick men out there, and i think chemical castration or the death penalty are the only sensible options for these evil unreformable untreatable dangers

This story is not 100% correct.

There's a shock.

Though the truth of the story is revealed later on in the story in the paper.

Headline should be: "Star reporter overwrites story and Obfuscates truth."

Just like reading the News of the World!

Anyone without a child will be questioned in case they're a paedophile, anyone with a child will be ok.

They'll be spending so much time interrogating people without kids that any paedophile that's managed to abduct a child will slip through the net.

Genius!

The park was signed over to Telford Development Corporation with a covenant (a legally binding contract) that it would be maintained as a park for free and open use by the people of Telford. The council has a legal obligation to ensure that we are allowed to use the park unhindered for whatever purposes we see fit. The council has no legal authority to ask you who you are or what you're doing in the park as long as you aren't breaking the law. Similarly, as a public place you are entitled to take pictures or video and nobody - the police included - have the legal authority to ask you who you are or why you're taking pictures or video.

I'll be there on Saturday exercising my rights.

Shocking!! Next you won't be allowed in a sweet shop or a toy shop to buy gifts!!!

I am suprised that no one has sued the authority yet! They are possibly breaching the Human Rights Act.

Article 3 Degrading Treatment. Article 14 Discrimination.

The autority are questionably using article 8 of the Act to stop people.

What a hammer to crack a nut and I would think only seek to frighten of families with children

When did the council become the landowners? The park belongs to the people, we are the landowners folks not the council!! Again they forget they are our servants NOT our masters and it's high time they realised it!!!

Of course, this article completely ignores the fact that the Council's excuse about CRB checks is a fig leaf, because it would be illegal to request a CRB disclosure for handing out leaflets.

Indeed, even if the Council's excuse were valid, who would one ask to perform the CRB check? The Council? If so, then it would mean having to get prior approval from them in order to demonstrate or protest. I don't believe we do that kind of thing in a liberal democracy. Oh, except we do now. Thanks, Tony and Gordon, for destroying our freedoms.

Well why not have "Single People Paths" like cycle lanes, with signs for children along it saying "Watch out, Watch out, There's a single person about!"

Neil Poole: Re legality, Yes it is lawful, and you must leave if asked to. However you do not have to give any details to a council official. However, if you genuinely mistook a person accusing you of being a pervert as some sort of vigilantee and feared for you safety, it is lawful to make a pre-emtive strike (ie hit them before you get hit). However I wont be putting up anyones bail money if they do so.

Hillary: Re your rally, I heard a rumour that some lads are going to the park in raincoats, dark glasses and a bag of sweets to put the council to the test (an official in the lake is on the cards!) - so I'm going to be be there, wouldn't miss it for the world!

I was absolutely incensed when I read this. Even if the "policy" is restricted to play areas, is it now illegal to actually enjoy seeing children playing? It is no longer possible to like children without being perverted?

How many sex attacks have occurred in the park in the last ten years? None i would guess.

When will those "in charge" of T & W get a grip of their staff and focus them on serving the public rather than dreaming up insane schemes which make Telford a laughing stock.

If the councillors cannot "encourage" the Directors to be sensible we need to remove the councillors and replace them with those who can ensure that the "lunatics are removed from heading up the asylum"

Roll on the next election!!

Pathetic again by the Council. I thought things would get better with Labour out, but it's got worse. I'm serving in Afghanistan now, and have more civil liberty here. Disgraceful.

You could not make it up, but what really scares me is that someone not only has, but that it has been given enough credence to actually make it this far.

No, no, no...

Interesting video... the bloke on the bench was approached and asked to explain his reasons for being there, but not the chap skulking in the bushes with the camcorder!

I for one would like to compliment the Shropshire Star on how they have handled this story. It has been handled sensitively whilst giving a very rounded view to everyone.

I think the council has the makings of an idea here. How about building a big wall along the line of the M54 dividing the town into north and south. They can then ensure that no one in the south steps out of line by forming a group called: The South Telford Area Surveillance Investigators - it could be know by it initials The STASI.

The way things are Adolf Hitler and Joe Stalin must be laughing in their graves at the way Britain has turned out.

#52 brian I agree. Any kid on his own is sure to be a trouble maker. Any young child in a park should be with a parent or guardian. If there are two adults with one child, what is the other one up to?

this is the most stupid thing i have ever heard!

so now people can't even take a stroll or walk their dog in the park because the council have decided that everyone is a paedophile!

this is sick. i'm glad i don't get branded a paedophile when i walk through my local park.

In a world of health and safety managers none of us will be allowed to do anything. There are effective and unintrusive ways of dealing with child protection which also protect the rights of innocent individuals. By all means monitor the play areas through sufficient numbers of wardens and CCTV if necessary. The idea of stopping and questionning people using the footpaths and rights of way is not only stupid but also unlawful. Under British law we have a legal right to "pass and repass without hindrance" on any right of way. Don't let the bureaucrats win!!

Simple answer: Vote the jokers out who introduced this bullying and harrassment at the first avaialble opportunity. If you are approached tell them to mind their own business.

Quote 'so sad that we have come to this, there are some very sick men out there, and i think chemical castration or the death penalty are the only sensible options for these evil unreformable untreatable dangers'

Actually JD, the point is, we have only come to this because of tabloid hysteria, rather than any real increase in risk. The risk to children from these people is still minimal, and as another correspondent has pointed out, mostly comes from within the family.

As for them being untreatable, there used to be an excellent unit at a prison, Grendon Underwood in the West Country, where this sort of offender was sent for specialist treatment. It had a remarkable success rate, but of course it cost extra money to run. It may still be going but I suspect it has fallen victim to financial cuts.

So in some (not all) cases these people can be successfully treated and reformed.

I can't believe I'm reading this This is the kind of thing my father fought against in the 2nd World War.... This council want booting out.

apart from this being stupid! surely all children playing in the park should have a parent or guardian present watching them anyway? its not the councils or police job to look after someone elses children, there are a lot of horrible people in this world and we cant hide away from them, live with it and get on with just dont let it rule our lives, good parenting should be enough!

I like many people who work in or around the Town Centre enjoy a walk around the shops/grounds most lunchtimes. What on earth will this result in when you have some Council Jobsworth who, for the best will in the world, will have no experience of probably ever meeting a Paedaphile let alone spot one for 50 yards, stopping you and accusing you of something they have no evidence whatsoever to prove.

Further down the line the Council will sub contract this job out to the equivelant of car park clampers let loose to harass the law abiding public. This job , if needed should be left to the Police.....anyway when was the last time any child sex offence took place in the town park??

It looks like the burghers of Telford have enjoyed a little jolly to Beijing. Not only did they get to see the Olympics but they obviously learned some lessons from their hosts on how to treat the populace.

Perhaps the park should not be off limits to adults however unless the judges and our Government starts giving out tougher sentences to child abusers ie over 35 years - this is how our country is going to go. When people who break the law are not locked up, this is the only waythe council has to protect innocent people.

I think alot of people are jumping the gun here

Im sure the council arent saying they are going to stop and question everyone, just persons acting suspiciously

The police would do exactly the same so whats the difference in the council protecting peoples interests too?

Having a walk through the park isnt going to cause anyone any alarm but an adult who clearly hasnt got a child with them and who is spending alot of time watching the children play, wouldnt you as a parent be suspicious? I know I would, i take my children on the park.

Again its the case of people blowing things out of proportion and looking to see the worst in any issue.

Once again Telford and Wrekin Council have shown the rest of the country what a shambolic lot of foolish buffoons they really are...the comedy just goes on and on...I look forward to the next episode of "Telford Towers"

Just how much are we paying the people that come up with these "bright" ideas? Surely it must be peanuts!!!

Let's hope that Santa is allowed in the town centre at Xmas - or will he be questioned every time he asks a child what he wants him to bring him. Glad I only work in Telford.

I shall make a point of going to the Town Park soon, alone, to mind my lawful business and await the attentions of the council 'thought police' - who I will then politely rebuff. When will these misguided interferers realise that there are far more decent people around than bad ones and the last thing they should be doing is alienating the public. It would be far more beneficial if they actively encouraged the general public to use parks, and welcomed their presence. Surely that is likely to be more effective in restraining any undesirable activity in parks. The more deserted parks are, the greater the risk of various forms of antisocial behaviour occurring.

Just in case anyone has any doubts, can I just repeat what I said above. Nobody, including a civilian Council Employee has any legal right whatsoever to stop and question anyone going about their lawful business in a public place. One is not obliged to "stop", answer any questions or carry out any act which he/she would not normally have done. The Police themselves, similarly do not have any legal powers to "randomly stop and question" people in a public place without first having reasonable grounds for doing so, eg by having reasonable suspicion that an offence has been committed or is about to be committed.

In the park, if a Police Officer stops you (even though he may not have legal grounds), one would be well advised to stop and answer questions, as things have a nasty habit of quickly going from a legal situation to an illegal one and one could easily end up being arrested. In Police parlance, the "Barbed Wire Act" is known to every officer. If one of these civilians stops you, you are legally entitled to walk by and totally disregard him/her.

Only by properly constituted "Bye-Laws" (and as far as I know there are none for this purpose in this park) can specifically authorised Council staff carry out this kind of activity.

I am a mother of two and i wouldn't like "perves" staring at my children but on the other hand i never leave them on there own especially when out and about so i wouldnt give the wrong people the opportunity to act upon anything . so what im trying to say is this plan will never come off silly idea

Unbelievable ! what next, rehousing childless couples because they live close to a school, or maybe bricking up their windows ?

The whole country is laughing at the fearful, backward fools on Telford Council - this will go down in legend like the monkey-hangers of Hartlepool.

Are all Council officials to be issued with black uniforms with jackboots and death's head insignia?

Millions of good men and women died to prevent this kind of oppression coming to these islands and to free the rest of Europe.

A little power is a dangerous thing and it seems that some of the taxpayers employees have taken far too much upon themselves.

In addition to the recent Bus Pass fiasco and subsequent clarification we now have the Pervert Patrol statement followed by a clarification. What a bunch of bone-headed buffoons we tax payers employ

i can say as a parent i have been in town park and feel that lone adults taking pictures of the play areas is quite creepy !!!! i have witnessed a guy middle aged no children with him wondering round the play area not the park !!! taking photo's without being quizzed if you feel this is a normal thing to do !!! then lets hope nothing happens to your children unless your the one taking photo's

Have the council officials in the park got kids with them as well or are they single as well, if they are then they should be questioned as well, well fairs fair if i was walking in the park and someone questioned me, then i would say what where they doing there as well.

As I understand it, there are covenants on the Town Park, giving free and open access to all, in perpetuity. This smacks of hidden agenda to me - another way for the council to scare off visitors and then suggest the park isn't used, so they can push through their unwelcome 'improvements', aka selling off parts of OUR park. My husband and I cycle, walk and run on the park regularly - I look forward to the council intruding on our privacy as we do so and I'm preparing my response accordingly. If anyone can link me to the legal issues raised by the councils policy, I'd be grateful.

The overwhelming majority of abuse cases involve a parent or legal guardian, these cases usually don't get publicized to protect the kid, but the once every ten year abduction gets front page coverage, usually to try and find the kid. So the public get the wrong idea as to where the danger is.

The sad fact is that the chances of a child molester standing in the park without a kid is infinitely smaller that one standing in the park with a kid..

Its unfortunate also that these policy's damage what I call the 'good Samaritan' effect, where people take an interest in kids lives and can sometimes identify and stop abuse (a lot of men would be afraid to talk kids in a park these days incase mistaken for a pedophile). So while this policy targets a very small minority of pedophiles, it actually has the adverse affect of protecting the majority of child abusers.

anyone that gets tough on paedophiles should be applauded, well done T&W C, Safety comes first!

I agree - I applaud T & W council for this action.

Innocent adults in the park have nothing to hide - the ones who break the law do have something to hide.

However perhaps T & W should publish how many incidences have been reported in the Park over the last 10 years to back up this inititive.

Once again authoritarianism gone mad. I wonder if unacompanied children are ever questioned by lack of parental supervision in this park. Young drug users will now see a clear opportunity to practice and 'push' their habits onto other young people in the park. The 'stop and question' is a good idea theoretically but in reality there is a greater risk to young people that I feel the authorities have overlooked; it could encourage other crimes.We have a Police force to deal with this problem, they should be active in enforcing surveillance and upholding the law not park keepers. At the end of the day once again shouldn't the ruling be that young people should only be allowed in the park accompanied by an adult in the first place. There is a wrong message going out here and parental responsibility has been once again overlooked. When I go to the park with my children they are always supervised by myself or partner.If all parents did this the risk would not be there.

On Halloween, the kids knock on my door asking for sweeties!! What is the Council going to do about that?

If they ask "What are you doing here"

give the reply of the immortal Eccles in the Goons

"Well we all got to be somewhere".

Deb: Re Legal Issues. I think a Freedom of Information Request would be your best starting point to find out what the covenants are (if any). Leicester Square can never be built on due to covenants, but the Town Park may be very different. Y Mab may also get his question answered by a FOI request.

See the T&W web site for details of how to make a request.

http://www.telford.gov.uk/Council+democracy/Customer+charter/FOI.htm

I wonder what measures would be taken were one to answer the question "Why are you in the park?" with the words "Because I want to be.". As I see it, the "authorities" have no power of arrest as no offence has been committed.

Bunch of idiots.

NB

Bonkers!! What next? Will we be unable to walk around the town centre without kids? Where will it all stop?

Evidently, they have a strictly B.Y.O. policy. Only paedophiles who bring their own children can enter without being harassed.

Nigel Bourne - Please do not take it out of context. T & W workers will only ask single persons what they are doing in the children play area in the town park not the other 80% of the town park.

So if you were loitering in the childrens area and a park warden asked wht were you were doing in the childrens area I would hope you would manage to give a good answer

This apparently only applies to men, like British Airways' policy of banning men from sitting next to unaccompanied child passengers. But as a BBC report showed up to 25% of child sexual abuse is committed by women.

(The Sexual Abuse by Women of Children and Teenagers

Summary of UK TV programme - Panorama - BBC1 - 10 pm Monday, October 6th, 1997)

Sadly not only do many people in the media by pretending paedophiles cannot be women, give the go ahead for male hate laws such as these, but worse, as the programme reported 86% of victims of female paedophiles are not believed when they say they were abused by a woman. The stories of abuse in the programme (which I have read the transcrips of) are shocking.

Sadly, the government recently decided to back laws to imprison males only, or violent women. Some child abuse by a female paedophile might not involve violence, such as downloading child pornography. So the government and many in the media have given the go ahead to create more victims who will not be believed - while many innocent men who love children are punished by Britain, the country that hates all males.

Given that the council obviously think there is a risk, aren't they being negligent in not applying this policy to any other areas controlled or managed by the council such as swimming pools,streets, pubs, clubs and restaurants, trains and buses or any other areas where adults not with children can come into contact with children? What about under 18's who go into nightclubs and lie about their age?

I would urge the residents of Telford to show their contempt for these so called "civil servants" at the ballot box.

Incidentally, civil servant is a better example of an oxymoron than military intelligence.

I'm frightened to go to the Council Swimming Pool as that will be the next thing.

perhaps we should all dress up as penguins

This is a stupid idea, best scrapped right now.

The perpetrators of crimes against children are most often family members, not some random stranger.

How does this questioning work then?:

Park staff: "Excuse me sir, why are you sitting alone in the park reading a book?"

Paedophile: "I'm just enjoying the peaceful setting to read a little. Lovely day, isn't it?"

Park staff: "We're just looking after the children, you understand. Don't want undesirable types loitering near them."

Paedophile: "Absolutely! One can't be too careful nowadays."

Park staff: "Thank you sir, carry on"....

Agree with all of the points already raised about the absurdity of this exercise.

To the few people who have commented that this is a good idea, I sympathise with your concerns and obviously everyone would like to see as much done as possible to protect children. HOWEVER, this exercise is entirely misguided - this will NOT help to protect children, it will actually have an adverse effect on child safety. By alienating perfectly law abiding adult users of the park, it becomes a more 'isolated' place for children to be, especially for children who are unaccompanied (and lets face it, there are plenty of children who, right or wrongly, don't have an adult with them), thus putting them at an increased risk from strangers.

Someone earlier quite rightly made the comment that the far better way to create a safe environment is to actively encourage people to use the park, therefore limiting the opportunity for unsavoury characters to be lurking in some deserted spot.

Once again Britain leads the way in persicuting the innocent whilst allowing the criminal element including the pedophiles free access to all with just a minute amount of supervision. If anyone in authority bothers them too much then an army of do gooders and lawyers step in to protect their rights. We the law abiding citizens have no such rights and are badgered by all jobs worth council officials who assume that their opinion is right and all others are perps. Perhaps the council should consider the next step as Hitlers henchmen did and make all who live and come to Telford have an ID card and ensure that we all have to carryn it and show it to any council official wherever we are, and answer a questionaire whith the answers checked before they are allowed on their way, providing the answers are correct as far as the official is concerned. People of Telford dont let it go any further, act against it now. Telford council leave policing to the trained police. What we need is a meeting of as many males in the parki atr a designated time and only give the minimal answer when questioned. I do not go to the park because ofcarpark charging and because there are better places to viusit in Britain.

By the way and lastly is thius policy going to be extended to swiming and other leisure activities in Telford. Food fo0r thoughyt.

If you are single, you must be a paedophile, is their reasoning I assume.

What if all the adults in the park WITH CHILDREN are paedophiles? In fact, wouldn't you much more expect adults WITH CHILDREN WITH THEM to be paedophiles, vs. those without?

Extremely poor reasoning, and obviously very illegal.

Right thats about enough of this P.C. garbage .Be warned the first jobs worth /little hitler in your fair town or any where else for that matter that asks me anything to do with kiddy fiddling wil get the biggest kicking of his life .GOT IT!!

Y Mab Darogan -

You are free to applaud T & W council for this action. I am free to walk in municipal parks, and to ignore busybodies who question my right to do so.

You also say that innocent adults have nothing to hide. Please confirm that your home does not have curtains at the windows, or we'll have to send round the wardens to find out exactly what sick perversion you're hiding behind them.

What law, by-law or statute allows this to happen and forces compliance and if this is allowed, what punituve measures are in place for those who do not comply.

Y Mab,

You presume that the Park Wardens will have a detector that alerts them to "singles" i.e. those without partner or spouse.

Modern technology, eh? Marvellous.

George Orwell just called from 1948.

He said 1984 was a warning not an instruction manual.

The council has got this all wrong. It's the *kids* they should be banning from the park. Why the hell should us tax-paying adults have to put up with their screaming and squarking and crying and tantrums all the damn time? It's obscene that I can't go for a walk in the park without getting a headache.

Besides, it's far too dangerous for children to be allowed outside anyway. The only time they should be allowed outside of their bedrooms is when being locked up inside a school for the day. It's for their own good. And ours.

So come on, Telford residents! Let's reclaim what's ours, and kick out the children! In fact, let's just kick out the council!

Spindrift If you have ver been in Telford town park yopu would realise that the childrens play area s approx 2% of the total land in the park

therefore any single persons loitering around the childrens play area would be suspicious in my view.

Anyway this action was all brought about due to the 2 penguins complaining to liberity about being thrown out of the park - what they fail to see is if they dress up in childrens entertaining costumes they must have a background check before they enter council land.

And whether they intended to entertain children or not the fact they were wearing penguin costumes is misleading

Cerddaf said: Sep 10th, 2008 at 11:02 am If they ask “What are you doing here”

give the reply of the immortal Eccles in the Goons

“Well we all got to be somewhere”.

Cerddaf - I hope they ask me the time, because I've got it written down on a piece of paper in my pocket. It says 8 O'clock. If they ask me at a time that isn't 8 O'clock, I won't show them the piece of paper!

Communism is alive and well and living in Telford ! This country is going to the dogs anyway, and it seems the abusrdity of Teford Council is leading the way. Why can't these people get a life !

Not really Communism If it was we would all have the same wealth/living conditions - we clearly do not have this.

Its more right wing.

And right wing is not a bad thing if it protects the innocent.

Also communism is not a bad thing either - Everyone should be equal and should be ables to have the same healthcare, education as each other regardless of which rich or poor family you were born into.

many people in the west think communism is a bad thing but that is only due to the capatalist west brainwashing people into believing that money and wealth is all there is to live for in this life

Knee-jerk reaction once again...you can't assume guilt where there's no evidence of a crime about to be committed. If they put more effort into getting parents to pay better attention to where their little darlings are running off to, too, it'd be more productive. There are so many young kids running loose in Telford with parents a good few metres behind not even watching where they're headed. Not that I'm saying that means people should be stalking them - but in fairness, considering the number of kids who have been running loose like that...is there really a need for such draconian measures?

As for me, I'll just take my work ID with me and ask anyone who stops me if they're CRB checked. I am, after all, to do my job ^_^ and they happen to be adults walking around the park behaving suspiciously towards other visitors...right??

What a joke, just more reason to show the world has gone completely bonkers. Sorry, but glad to see the back of Telford if that is what the place is coming to.

Amber - Is'nt it better to stop a crime before it is committed?

I assume you have a burgular alarm at your house and a car alarm - those are designed to prvent crime being commited.

How different is it to have Park Wardens checking people to make sure no crime is commited?

Not that much different.

As for all the people saying that T & W should not be carrying out this line.

I will add that nursuries and hospitals are surrounded by security and CCTV these days should'nt the same be expected at children plays area's???

Y Mab Darogan said: Sep 11th, 2008 at 12:06 pm

I will add that nursuries and hospitals are surrounded by security and CCTV these days should’nt the same be expected at children plays area’s???

If you had read the council's original press release, or the letter that was sent to John Evans, you would know that no reference was made to the children's play area - just the whole park.

No one has a problem with an eye being kept on the play area - indeed it is covered by CCTV - quite rightly.

People are objecting to being told that they need to get the council's permission before they do ANYTHING in the Park - that was clearly stated in David Morgan's press release.

The subsequent letter from the Sports and leisure Officer stated that Town Park staff would approach any adult who is not accompanied by a child - no mention of children's play areas or suspicious behaviour.

I don't know any regular park users who have any quarrel with the Town Park staff - just the over-paid idiots at the top!

According to numerous studies (Freund, Watson, & Dickey, 1991; Gebhard et al., 1965; Howells, 1981; Lang et al., 1988; Langevin, 1983), the typical child molester is not a paedophile (someone who is preferentially attracted to children). The kind of person who molests a child is primarily attracted to adults and is motivated to abuse children by an attraction to features which are desired in women, such as small size, dependancy, passiveness, innocence and acquiescence (Liddle, 1993). These offenders are believed to target children because of the unavailability of such features in an adult partner. Because that type of offender looks for "easy" situations, he would not hang around parks looking for children.

Paedophiles, who typically have a strong emotional attraction to children, are usually unable to overcome the ethical barriers against abusing children, meaning that most are harmless perverts who never act on their feelings. It is paedophiles, not child molesters, who are more likely to spend time hanging around a park. Nobody likes the idea of perverts looking at their children, but unless people decide to stop worrying about the harmless perverts and start focusing on actual child molesters, they're going to have to put up with silliness such as that shown by Telford Council and a highly unacceptable rate of child abuse.

Ian Allen, you may need to be reminded that Telford is currently a Tory-controlled council. Hardly communists.

And V Rossi, as one person has already pointed out, technically you have a perfect right to take photos in a public place. I've taken photos of my kids in the Town Park in the snow when they were younger. In these days of camera phones people are always taking photos wherever you go. Get over it.

There are a few comments on here about this measure being "PC gone mad", etc. This is the complete opposite to political correctness (i.e. liberal/left wing policies), this is as right wing as it gets. Thank the Daily Mail et al for this kind of ridiculous rule. It is because of the right wing press that a lot of parents actually believe (as odd as this may seem) that "stranger danger" is a real everyday threat.

Sue, this policy is supported by Left and Right wings. The Left loves it because of their own support for any measures which increase the state's involvement in our private lives. The NSPCC is an extreme right-wing pressure group with views to the right of Attila the Hun, but they are partly funded by the Labour government in the contracted-out work they do. Could there be anything politically more correct, these days, than assuming that men are child rapists unless proven otherwise? It's classic 70s feminist theory put into practice.

I am a Wellingtonion but I live in Canada and if that kind of thing were to happen here the park wardens or whoever would get a good mouthful of you know what.

I have been to Telford park on my visits to my home and like to walk through it.

so what would happen if I were to reply "it's none of your **!£) business why I'm in the park"

Has England become a nation of paranoids?

Shades of South Africa, would I now carry an ID with a police check on it and if I didn't have it I would be taken straight to the Secret police HQ.

What a load of rubbish - how about looking to the safety of all in the streets in the parks, I just read about a young teenager, who I happen to know, who was beaten up for no apparent reason at 6:00pm on a bridge in Telford by a bunch of cowardly hoodlums.

I'm sure the council are not being sexist and only targeting men.. remember Myra Hindley and a certain Mr Ian Brady? to be truly effective they will also have to target childless couples too, total flipin madness!!

The world or at least TWC has gone totally OTT here with no real justifiable reason foor their approach. Sicko Paedophiles engage with children not lurk in bushes and watch from afar so what good will approaching childless people or Shroppshire star reporters sitting on a bench do? The sick paedophiles will look like they are with the kids and there are plenty of kids who go there without parental supervision so how could they tell a perv from a parent anyhow? Why on earth target lone childless adults? most victims know their attacker. It's extremely rare to be just snatched by a total stranger. This is OTT and the park is paid for by us all and not just by those with children. Ironically I have been asked to contribute one of my photos for said article.

As a childless member of the public perhaps in the future I will not be able to take photos in a public park to aid such news worthy story's if this approach is left un challenged.It's outrageous!

Y Mab Darogan - "Amber - Is’nt it better to stop a crime before it is committed?"

There was once someone who said that "Better a guilty man walk free than an innocent man hang".

True, there's no death penalty involved in the UK now. But the theory is still the same.

This country has a policy of innocent until proven guilty. That is a fundamental part of British law, whatever people want to say to the contrary. Contravening that policy contravenes the right of a British citizen to be presumed innocent until convicted of a crime. Insinuating that someone is about to commit a crime without any evidence impedes that right. Impeding civil liberties without justification can therefore be considered a crime in itself.

For every one paedophile in Britain there are thousands of law abiding people who consider the idea of hurting children abhorrent. Mass hysteria has caused huge backlash against innocent people (who can forget the hapless paediatricians who were attacked because they had 'paed' in their job title?). This country is not full of monsters - it's wrong for any authority to take actions that imply that it is.

It's fine to want a safe community, but I don't consider it safe if there's always someone in authority breathing down my neck waiting for me to step an inch out of line.

I have read the comments above and agree that this is ridiculous and intrusive. However, why do people put up with it? council officials have no right in a public place to ask anyone anything. When I read of people having their leaflets confiscated I really wonder why they do not object and refuse to cooperate. We are too sheeplike and just role over and die these days. I suggest that the people of Telford all go for a wander in the park, on the same day, as a protest.

hmm ok if i lived in the area i'd be sitting down listening to music through headphones. If they think i'll just walk off try again! if one is doing nothing criminal then asking some one to move on cannot be justified. If the officer in question continues to insist that is harrasment Then proceeding to physically force some one off is then assault. making one get into the cop car is then kidnapping and on and on. No way is that gonna stand. In fact I might just go up there with my amateur radio and DAB handheld and see whats up? muppets!!

All I can say is thank goodness TWC dont have a naturist beach that they have to patrol! Can you imagine what would happen if they were responsible fo the naturist beach at Morfa Dyffran?

P.S. Is topless sunbathing allowed in the Town Park?

Children should not be in the park unacompanied anyway, isn't that parental neglect?

I don't know what is worse:

* The incompetent reporting

* The actions of the council

* The people who blindly believe everything they read

* the hysterical save the children comments

sad very sad the lot of you.

It seems like it is becoming apolitical to giveaway the rights we were granted in the the Constitution in the name of safety. My American Government teacher Mr. Dawkins from Hazelwood High School taught us that we should never give up those rights that were written into the Constitution after American Revolution. We all as citizens of the USA have the right to the freedom to assemble,freedom of speech and freedom from unreasonable search and seizure.

As in one way i understand that the council have to show that they are trying to keep our children safe.But the problem i will have is that quite often i am on my own with my cild , the problem that this leads to is that when i am sat watching her on the park would i need to have a abig arrow with me and keep shouting: that is my child ,i am with her , and divert my eyes from any other children .

Brilliant idea from the council! If I were a pedo walking around the park, of course i would be only to happy to just disclose this information at will to randomers.

Here is how the convosation may go...

Warded: Hello, may i ask what your doing here all alone in the park?

Pedo: I'm a pedo, I pray on children. Shall I call the police of will you do it?

There we have it, conclusive evidence that this is a brilliant idea.

i go to the town park regular in the summer with my 2 children..

in one sence i can see the point of officials,we all want to keep our children safe and out of harms way..

but what about the embarresment of the poor person bein approached when enjoying the town park.

yes i agree that there are some horrible people out there,but they cant tar every one with the same brush..

if i was there with my kids grandad and he went to get drinks without us at spout way cafe,my self and he would be mortified if he was asked what he was doing,and id most definitaly make a complaint..