Star comment: Would arming police have saved officers?
In the aftermath of shock and grief, the questions begin to multiply.
Could the lives of the two women officers have been saved if police were armed?
It would have made no difference. Even had they had the means to defend themselves against an assailant armed with a gun and a grenade, they would have had no time to do so. The lessons of the many fallen RUC officers caught in terrorist ambushes tell us that those who have the advantage of surprise have the deadly trump card.
There are calls for the return of the death penalty for the murders of police officers.
The horrifying aspect of the murders of the two women in Greater Manchester is that it was, on the information so far available, a Raoul Moat-style targeted killing of police officers. The prospect of the death penalty might or might not deter copycats, but with the current make-up of Parliament, the prospects for the ultimate sanction to be voted through look slim.
There is another avenue for action which is staring us all in the face – and that is to make the procedures, safeguards, and penalties which we have already actually work.
Incredibly, it turns out that the suspect Dale Cregan was on police bail. Equally incredibly the offence for which he was arrested and questioned in June was a fatal shooting.
After being released, it is obvious that the police did not know where he was – until yesterday, when he walked into a police station shortly after two women police officers lost their lives in the course of their duty.
Should it turn out that their deaths could have been prevented by the application of some common sense and rigour in dealing with those suspected of murderous crimes, it will pile on the hurt and add to the anger.
Comments for: "Star comment: Would arming police have saved officers?"
Roger
I think the law on arrest and bail needs looking at again. The Police arrest too early in normal circumstances which means that they will have insufficient to justfy charging and thus bail is correct.
Arrest is often carried out without need so the public are confused about what arrest means.
I think there is a case for applying different standards dependant on the seriousness of the offence. But in the general case arrest, bail and no further action is becoming the norm. Look at todays burglary article 700 offences 250 arrests and less than 80 convictions. Something is very wrong with the system and it needs to be looked at.
I don't think arming the police would have helped in this case but I am curious as to why the police car engine was still running and the blue light on if they were on a routine inquiry. Far to early to make conclusions.
Terrier
The Police make early arrests in many cases before completing sufficient enquiries to charge as they are quite often stuck between a rock and a hard place. If the early arrest is not made and then something further happens eg the burglar goes on to burgle more houses the question is then "Why didn't the Police do something" . This can be seen quite often in the media. If an early arrest is made then bail is quite often the only way to continue with the investigation.
I also feel that routinely arming all Police oficers is not the answer. Significant jail sentences are a good start!
A Previous Life
In a previous life - and those times are, thankfully, in the past - I regularly carried a firearm in the course of certain duties. From this personal experience, and from observing colleagues engaged alongside, I can tell you that being 'equipped' can make people do things they would never otherwise do. Under the same premise that driving a car can make you behave 'outside the bubble' of your normal behaviour, whilst carrying a weapon it is all too easy to use it as an incentive to bolster extremely inappropriate actions. A fiream can bring out the bully in anyone; I've seen it, and even detected such feelings in myself.
I do not believe that Police Officers should be routinely armed. That level of action should be retained in the hands of extremely highly trained personnel. In the half light and under immeasurable stress, a silhouetted innocent girl carrying an umbrella can look like a terrorist with a rifle.
If either of these hideously slain Officers had been 'equipped' - even with Tasers - under the circumstances I don't think that the result would have been different.
H. St. John Peasbody
I totally agree with every aspect of your post.
Johnboy
Trained armed soldures in Afghanistan get shot by people posing as policemen, so regardless of whether our police carry arms or not they don't stand much of a chance against the suprise attack from a nutter. I agree that arming all police might make things worse because criminals will call it self defence after they have shot them.
Niall Gibbons
For heavens sake , no .
I live in New Orleans which has one of the highest murder rates here in the US . Guns are prevelant in the society here and are freely available in certain states with minimal background checks . This is why here , and in many other countries as well , the police are armed . I , too , also have guns . A leap for a guy from Market Drayton , but i have two handguns and a shotgun . The thinking here is that you can't rely on the police to protect you until they get to you ( kind of lame , but thats the way of the land here ) . When in Rome , as they say .
The UK is still a fine bastion against this way of thinking . Despite the disgusting events of yesterday , many of my American friends express amazement and envy about the police not being routinely armed in the UK ( its a point of smug pride for me ) . Fireams are not freely available to the public in the UK despite the fallng of borders in Europe . Over here the ability to simply reach for a gun to settle arguments or be used in crime has led to a permantly on edge police force nationwide . Try walking up to a cop over here and asking for directions ! Their hand tends to slide to their holster out of habit , instead of reaching for an A to Z book .
What makes this scum totally disgusting is that he knew the officers , male or female , sent to the call would be unarmed . The act of a total coward .
But don't take the knee jerk reaction of arming the whole of the police . You'll lose forever an intergral part of British society
Two Tone
Points well made.
Kelly
One comment on the Facebook comments etc. on this subject that are left by the weirdo's in social housing and in receipt of housing benefit. You really should remember who it is paying your benefits you Gipo's.
Buskerman
There's nothing quite like a sweeping statement is there?
....and how long have you worked in PR Kelly?