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Letter: The kids? They’re all right.
Wednesday 31st March 2010, 8:59AM BST.
Letter: I am writing to inform you about the discrimination against teenagers around Telford, including that of the security and centre staff at Telford Town Centre.
They seem to have adopted a zero tolerance approach to teenagers in general, evicting any teenagers who appear to linger more than the appropriate amount of time.
I recently went to the centre to meet some friends, which we do every weekend. We sat on a bench, causing no disruption to anyone.
Suddenly, we were told to move along because we had allegedly been sitting there for hours, when we had literally only just sat down.
One of my friends was then told to leave for asking a guard why he had to move when we were causing no harm.
We then walked around for a while and bumped into some other people we knew, but after a short while we were once again told to move, or we would be evicted from the centre. To me this seems extremely unfair.
Also, the majority of us spend our money in such shops as Primark, Asda, McDonald’s and a range of other shops every weekend. So, if we get evicted, these stores will lose revenue.
My friends and I would like to get this issue dealt with, as we have now had enough of it.
Sascha Knight
Telford
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I remember being hassled many moons ago at the Pavillions in Birmingham just for sitting down on a low wall (no seats at all were provided in those days). As I am now in the grey set I doubt it will ever happen again!
You have my sympathy Sascha, my son complains of the same in Shrewsbury from CSOs as well as shopping centre staff.
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I fully understand Sascha’s concerns and the discrimination she has encountered is blatantly wrong.
But why hang around shopping centres all day? Why not get out in the fresh air and do something worthwhile with your life?
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I do feel for you in this instance as you seem like a nice individual who happened to be minding her own business with like minded nice group of friends. However, not all groups of teenagers enjoying a trip to the town centre are like your group. There are many groups that do hang around, make an unnecessary amount of noise and get in the way of other shoppers and can appear to be intimidating to others. The town centre is quite narrow in comparison to other indoor shopping centres and most high streets, add in some benches and small stalls makes it even smaller. I admire the town centre staff for keeping on track with larger groups; it’s unfortunate that in this instance you have been branded with the same brush.
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Yes the majority of cildren are fine some are not however. But peasbody has got a point why not get out into the countryside walk up the wrekin etc why sit in a drab old shopping centre?. Saying all that I was at that shopping centre when we took the children skating and the gueard i saw just leaned upagainst the wall eyeing up the females walking past. Bordem eh
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Well done Sascha for sticking up for yourself and your friends.
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Finally someone spoke up.
Its getting silly. “TEENAGERS ARE BAD”. Oh go away.
Amount of time i’ve been stopped by the police just because its dark and i’m walking with my hands in my pocket is silly.
When did police have a right to ask us where i’m going just because i’m a teen?
(or that was then… i’m 20 now and still get it)
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Andrew, your grammer and spelling today!!!!! Anyway, you cannot blame children and young people for NOT wanting to go and be outside or enjoy the countryside. Those days are long gone. When I was 15 – 16 I had no mobile phone, no pagers, shops were not open all hours, there was no McDonalds and TV was 5 channels! So, I did go out and find stuff to do and would be gone for hours, but if was a teenager now if I wasnt following an interest or hobby I too would be meeting my mates in town – where I guess its safer. I wouldnt be hanging around the streets at night and I wouldnt deliberately try and annoy people, BUT some kids are loud, some kids do think they have a right to have a laugh and to be honest if my children said to me they were dossing on the streets or meeting in the Centre, I know where I would rather be.
Another point would to the Council – build something for young people to visit, chill, meet their mates – or is that just too much to ask in the regeneration of Telford??
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Is this Young people being branded as bad because of the actions of the few that are actually upto no good.
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The people saying the teenagers should go outside obviously don’t come from the same England i do. For instance as i write this it’s snowing and it’s almost April.
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Well done Sacha!! I well imagine that The shops in town do very well out of you youngsters if the spending my two do up there is anything to go by. DONT hang around the streets for your own safety stand your ground!I have never had aproblem with any teenager at tTelford shopping centre.
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Oh Sacha – you speak for us all. I remember getting moved on from hanging around the public conveniences on wellington’s bowring park back in my youth. Great days, now long gone *sigh*
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Sascha, things never change lol!!!
I am 58 in a couple of weeks and we used to hang around the shops and spend our time being annoying to older people when we were teenagers. That was even when we were well behaved. Get two teenagers together and they are acceptable, more than that, they are bound to be up to no good ;)
Maybe a letter to the management of the town centre might be a way to go and arrange a meeting with them to find out exactly why you are being moved on. Is it because the security guards are ‘jobsworths’? I have the same problem if I smoke in the wrong place, so I do know what it is like to be moved on. (In my case though I do know the rules, whereas there don’t seem to be anything in writing for you and your friends and others of your age!) I wonder if I hung about with a group of my friends I would be moved on … maybe we should try it :)
As for getting out and doing stuff, I think you are and just because others think you should be climbing the Wrekin, remember, you could be vegetating in front of your computer instead of being out and about.
As Mandy says, stand your ground, ‘they’ were all teenagers once and I bet ‘they’ weren’t all well behaved.
Good Luck!!!
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D sorry about the grammer etc to much twitter. However kids can get out to the country just need to try a little harder. I know loads of children who go out and about and enjoy the countryside. I see them every week when out on walks etc . It is the parents who discourage because they cant be bothered to go with them . When we were staying in the cotswolds we stayed next door to a police officer and a teacher their child was playing football with ours when they came out after 1hr and said come on in now DR WHO AND THEN EX FACTOR IS ON ????????? whats all that about.
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Why on earth would you meet up and spend your day in Telford town centre anyway when you have all that beautiful surrounding countryside? Get a life!
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Whatever happened to the council run Playschemes? When I was young we could always go there and participate in a range of activites and trips out under supervision and with our friends for a nominal fee – we had great times and did so many things including horse riding and organised sports events and parents knew their children were safe and occupied in the holidays. I suppose council cutbacks were the demise of this venture and they wonder why youngsters hang around now – they’ve got nothing to do, they can’t go off up the Wrekin and the like on their own – it’s not safe – they need organised activities to get them out and about.
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Firstly, good for you, Sasha. I suspect that things have changed for the worse in Telford Centre since Hark Apollo took over. Such organizations always look at increasing their profits by finding cheaper security and cleaning providers – with the predictable results. Such businesses only recognize pound signs, they lost any humanity or benevolence years ago, if they hadn’t, they might actually welcome a little diversity and unorthoxy and put a Happy Days style milk bar in place specifically for teens or even a small, interior skateboard park where older generations could sit and marvel at teen agility (or stupidity!) Oddly, enough, I notice teens in the town centre less than lonely old folk who sit for long periods watching the world pass by. It’ll be their turn next to be evicted because they’re not spending any money. You should go further, Sasha and raise it with your MP because it’s a good point. I suspect that the centre is more popular with decent (if sometimes noisy) teens because it’s far more vibrant and safer than many of the purpose built skate parks etc in the Borough that often tend to be dominated, or those using them, targetted by unsavoury teen elements intent on drinking, drugging up and causing mischief.
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As a parent of one such teen who is a regular visitor to the Town Centre, I would much prefer her to be there than hanging around the streets or ‘climbing the wrekin’. While it was noble suggestion to be out in the fresh air, I do feel the person who made it has missed the point – that ‘freedom’ here is being curtailed by the branding of all teenagers and young people as ‘bad’. To echo someone elses comments, much better to be out and about town than sitting in front of a computer or worse still, nicking cars, or causing damage or doing drugs etc.The teenagers who frequent town centre are a valuable source of Revenue for ALL shops, and they are what keeps the security staff employed!
On the same day as this incident, I witnessed a group of teenagers in a coffee shop in Shrewsbury( one of whom was at the time noting the drinks order for his friends) being asked to leave as there were too many of them and they had been there too long without a drink! There were 8 of them, in a corner, not in anyones way and they WERE about to go and order!
Remember we were all teenagers once. Our society is responsible for the behviour and expectations of the majority of teenagers and we cannot dismiss them just because they take up bum space on a bench! The point is, these people are consumers like the adults who object to their presence and they at least deserve to be treated with the same respect as Town Centre staff might afford another adult! The young people concerned now have a principle to uphold and defend, and I for one wholeheartedly support them!
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Andrew – how many teenagers would think it ‘cool’ to be with a group of mates and have their parents in tow up the Wrekin??? They want the independence of being able to go to town with their mates. They want to go and hang out and do what adults do – i.e. shop. This is not a crusade to get kids outdoors in fresh air and up a hill! Its not about what parents can and can’t e bothered to do – I would love my kids to enjoy outdoor pursuits with me, but they just don’t WANT to! They want to be able to enjoy the safety of the town centre, shop, eat and hang out with their mates. Anyway, how long would it be before someone complained about the Wrekin being overrun with teenagers ‘hanging about’ an being annoying!?
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To R Boulter – please tell us that you didn’t really spend your youth hanging around public conveniences.
I am trying to imagine how the conversation went when you were arranging to meet your friends….
RB (to friend) – OK, I’m bored, what can we do?
Friend (to RB) – We could climb the Wrekin?
RB (to friend) – I’ve got a better idea. Let’s go and hang-out by the public toilets at the park.
Friend (to RB) – That’s disgusting. I’m going up the Wrekin.
RB (to friend) – Suit yourself. I’m heading to the toilets.
Friend (to RB the ex-friend) – Weirdo.
I am thinking you were luck to be moved on as opposed to being arrested.
Sascha – you’re right they’re wrong. Stand up for your rights.
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Thankyou for all your comments so far…
Andrew – Firstly, there is a lot to do at the town centre, you just have to make something to do! Most of the time, we spend at the town park…but we go inside either when it’s too cold (as England is!) or we want something to drink/eat or simply to shop.
In these recent weather conditions, you expect us to go climbing up the wrekin? to us, that isn’t fun…
some of our friends also come from further away than others, so public transport is quite limited for them, which means relying on parents.
We walk MILES when we go to the town centre, literally, that’s anough of a work-out for us…
when the weather improves we do go out and about, but our main meeting point is the town centre as a whole.
and we would all MUCH rather go to the town centre than sit inside all day watching tv/on the computer…like a lot of people do.
are we not entitled to some freedom and some courtesy and respect?
we don’t go out to cause trouble, and most of the other groups don’t either, because i know them! but most people take what they have overheard or presume to be correct that we are misbehaved kids thats go to the town centre with the sole intention to cause trouble…that presumption would be incorrect for the majority.
whatever ever happened to innocent until prooven guilty?! we are being judged before we’ve even done anything wrong…why?
keep the comments coming :) we do appreciate them. thanks! :D
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i agree with Sascha, it’s not fair..
just because we’re young, they ashume we’re ‘trouble makers’ when actually we just want to see our friends..
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How old are these children?? get to snowdon the coast etc loads of teenagers with parents doing out door activities its great fun all year round as for the comp etc its a matter of balance I have a week off so I will pop on it now and again on the pc at home ot iphone when working and yes it can be addictive twitter etc but weekends are out and about family friendly.
Of course children need to see friends chill out etc and yes police move them on sorry PCSO and heavy handed security gueards etc its what they were employed to do not always right but lets face it easy target for power trip types. This is why we need youth clubs for them to meet at but at the same time we need more family orintated activities and more families in a traditional sence thats the way forward.
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My teenagers go to the centres in both Telford and Shrewsbury, they also enjoy walks up the Wrekin and in Haughmond Wood. My son is also a skateboarder who does not take drugs or drink but also can’t get access to a decent skate session due to others using them as a meeting place. So what do you suggest they do as they tick all the good and bad boxes but due to being teenagers they still get hassled by cso’s and security if they are in groups of more than 4. No wonder the teenagers have had enough. I find the groups of adult males with the cans of lager alot more threatening than the teens.
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Nothing against the youngsters shopping in Telford Town centre but the majority just roam around the centre with nothing to do and subsequently are told to leave by the shopping centre staff which is correct.
If they have a reason to be there ie purchasing much needed items that is fine if they are just meeting friends how about the Town Park, doing voluntary work, joining a activity club ie Scouts, Cubs, Ranger’s, acting, dancing, volunteering, sport’s the choice’s are wide and endless.
It’s a bit of a waste of a life to spend all weekend in the town centre just because you are unable to think of other activies to spend your time doing regardless of being evicted by the security staff.
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I agree totally with R Boulter, you others must be mad, I was the stout yeoman of the bowring “rec” (and believe me it was no wreck when I was in charge) and all the cool kids seemed to hang around the loos. Either that or sitting on the bowling green talking about bolsheviks or smoking and wheezing on the tennis courts sucking on icepops. get a life you others! foooooo!
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This seems to raise one of the main issues of ‘artificial’ centres like Telford’s in that they are all private property.
If the management or security do not like what you are doing, they can legitimately ask you to leave. Councils want the developers money and business, but most new developments are classed as private land, so their rules apply. This is not just in enclosed places either, Brindley place in Birmingham is the same.
I have no problems with groups of teenagers hanging around. I won’t deny they are sometimes a bit noisy, but they are teenagers! I don’t feel threatened or harassed though, unlike the older street-drinking fraternity of Wolverhampton who I keep well clear of.
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I wonder if some of the people who keep recommending that these young people do something constructive like joining the scouts, walk up the Wrekin, go to the coast, have actually read the replies from Sascha and her friends.
They do not want to do that all the time, some of their friends come from areas of the county that is off the beaten track and parents can’t be expected to ferry them around all the time.
In any case, how many teenagers want to hang around with their parents when they could be having a laugh with their peers? I think I know what I would have preferred.
There are also people who do not like organised events.
However, I do agree with ‘Dee’ about building a plaace where they could all meet, get coffees etc., play pool or whatever they play these days and not get moved on because they have just sat around talking for a few hours.
The owners’ of the town centre need to look at who is spending a large percentage of their disposable income there!
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The young lady who wrote the original letter in my view is an excellent example of what most youths are like in 2010, polite,well behaved,and has written to the local paper to ait her views , but given hassel by some such as pcso,security guards,etc also some organisation who will actualy take their money now and in the future.I have known of two young girls who were sat chatting in a culdesac where one lived and a pcso told them to stop and move while she was on her rounds?? its abuse of power such as this that causes the problems.
However the letter above is also good and perhaps the young lady should along with her friends and family try some of the above . I am taking my kids up snowdon this weekend Okay halfway up and yes it will be cold but they love it its an adventure but to make it enjoyable they must have the correct gear then as someone said no such thing as bad weather if you have the correct kit .All i will say as above dont waste your youth sitting around dreary old shopping centres etc .
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Countryside?
I’ve never once been able to get anywhere as a teenager. it either costs too much or is too far away or its cold!
Town centre is warm, plus there are shops. Teenagers these days like to try things and look at stuff.
Can have a nice day without “playing” with each other.
I don’t think its fair to be kicked out of somewhere for roaming. I can’t wait for the day I spend in a field and be kicked out because i’m doing nothing.
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Andrew Finch i agree we do need more ???youth clubs. As parents though we encourage our children to participate in sporting activities. Their week is full of swimming twice a week, rowing twice a week, music lessons, guide groups. As a family we go out walking with the dogs each weekend, and we try to go on a bike ride each week. This along with our eldest going to the gym after college twice a week. A fairly active life mixed with lots of chill out time on computers too. BUT!!!!! that doesnt mean that when they join up with their friends that i expect for them to be moved on.
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to Joyce polak hubby and R Boulter, it may give a better image of your youth if you were to also explain that the toilets at the bowring were either side of a refreshments counter and offered a bit of cover from the rain for those who don’t know the area.
we always had this problem in Newport where there was nothing to do but hang with your mates round the church wall, the looks we used to get i even remember so bloke ploughing into us cos we were a bit slow getting out of his way. i later started to cycle from newport just so i could hang out up at the telford town centre so theres yer great out door activity and lazy youthfullness in one tidy package.
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There’s an assumption that youths are being discriminated against here. Do we really know whether groups of pensioners aren’t also victimised ? I’ve seen ‘Last of the Summer Wine’ and I can tell you that these OAPs can get up to quite the high-jinx when allowed to congregate. Alright, so mostly it’s harmless, but if they start riding around in bathtubs on motorised wheels or the like something will have to be done !
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I was privileged to attend the High Sheriff of Shropshire’s awards on Monday evening at TCAT, recognising young people form across Shropshire who donate their free time to helping others.
It was humbling to see what some young people are doing for charities, their schools, friends and families.
There are activities which young people can do (and some already do) all around the county which would not require them to sit in shopping centres but still allow them to be together and achieve something worthwhile.
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Well sometimes its the adults , i visit a village shop where a lady in her 50s serves. A polite lad came in picked up a few sweets and then a magazine he asked her how much was it(mag) after looking over the front cover for the price.Her abrupt answer was its on it and then put her hand out for the money, so i took the magazine off him looked for the price and told her it , a few weeks later 2 young girls came in bought £7 woth of stuff and asked for a bag her reply was why cant you carry them? to which they replied “sorry we cant so if we could have a bag please?” she threw it at them. Adults like this are a major problem . Police and pcso etc use the excuse of large groups to move children on . So dont go there, and dont give them your money.
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again, thank you for your comments…
Andrew Finch – We are 14-17 year olds, and we are not all like your children; not everybody enjoys climbing in the freezing cold weather, but we do have other outdoor pursuits that we enjoy, such as, bmxing, skateboarding, going to the town park, or the grass arena at the back of the park (when the weather improves).
Y Mab Darogan – Not all of us would like to do those activities, mainly because they are not interesting to us, or we have grown out of those sorts of interests. Also, most of those activites you mentioned would cost money! Up until recently i actually completed 5 years of dedicated saturday morning acting, drama and music at stagecoach…and i still practice music all the time…we also don’t need anymore groups to be apart of and work for as this is the age of examinations and gcse’s, which is stressful enough and we need the weekends to ‘chill out’ with our mates!
i feel you’re missing the point of the letter, it’s not about building recreation centres or youth clubs…but about our freedom as teenagers.
And thank you Mandy and Hilary for your support
And again…keep the comments coming (:
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I used to hang out on the Bowring – It was great watching the tennisers and listening to music (usually Madonna)on my walkman (I also used to listen to audio books – ON CASSETTE! bit of a trailblazer was I) It certainly beat going to the town centre or cinema… GO BOWRING…
VAMPERIC – Toilets next to a refreshments counter? You’d never get away with that now would you. Health and Safety gone BONKERS!
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Joyce Polak Hubby – ‘foo’ indeed!! How are you? Not heard from you in years? I’m soon to be married – who’d have thought it about the ‘BTC’, how times change *sigh*
Smellie2 – I refer you to Vamperic’s post. The toilets and refreshment block were the place to be. We had quite a gang back in the early 90′s – and enough of your smut. The toilets were a place away from prying eyes where we could hang out and just be ourselves. We’d have to think long and hard about allowing you entry to the BTC!!!! Lol!
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sascha , you do have a point but they will keep moving you on if you gather in large groups or as i have said you get a pcso,security guard who abuse thier position.The answer is im afraid to congregate at each others houses, after you have been around the shops because they will keep moving you on if your in large groups , or sat in cafes having just had your drink etc 1hr earlier.
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to H_Unchy
Health and Safety is my business it aint bonkers please don’t mix it up with environmental health not my area ;p
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I have to say that it was probably just the security guards protecting their imagine. After all it takes quite a brave guard to challenge two teenage girls and threaten them. When my wife saw a teenage lad being attacked by some other lads in the town centre the guards weren’t interested even though they were watching it happen. May have spoilt their clean uniforms getting blood on them!
I think that when someone with a uniform can only be bothered to rebuke someone who is not going to attack them its called bullying. Ignoring an attack on a defenceless lad is called cowardice.
Remember as othe posters have said Hark Apollo have one interest and that is making money.
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Not only do many of the ‘worthwhile’ activities suggested here cost money but the counry lanes that used to exist are these days far too dangerous to walk or cycle on to places like the Wrekin.
I would like to have seen an indoor dedicated skatepark or enclosed outdoor one like the one in Newquay, Wales.
What did we get before all the council house sell off was spent, an indoor bowling club!!!
Shrewsbury only acknowledges old as good in terms of buildings and people.
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vamperic – H_Unchy is bang on the money – it is H&S gone crazy. I did a course for work, so I speak from experience. Kids these days are molly-coddled – there’s nothing wrong with being involved with gasworks alan and his pram, but the police and their lackeys say no. The sooner H&S and all, the other politicians back off and let us live the, better.
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R Boulter …
Entry to your Bolshevik discussing, icepop sucking, and smoking club is not, and would never have been, requested.
No smut intended, just humour. Based on your comment, you missed that. And I can’t believe that anybody that has grown up around the British humour would not recognize you digging yourself in deeper with your “away from prying eyes” comment.
Anyway, I was too busy hanging out in Sidoli’s in Shrewsbury trying to convince Shrewsbury High School girls that dating me would be a good thing. I’d love to say it worked but …
Sascha – another pointer – when hanging out we used to spend, spend, spend … Not necessarily a lot, just consistently.
Sorry Mr Finch, the answer is not to congregate at home. Homes generally contain parents or siblings, when I was young the goal was to get away from those irritants.
Happy Easter.
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to R Boulter,
It’s very nice that you did a course for work but i don’t think you took too much of it in.
many health and safety professionals will advise on MANAGING risk not banning it but when shown what to do to let things go ahead the managers or insurance companies say it too much hassle or it cost too much. Ive just realised that i have hijacked this thread my apologies please carry on.
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Whilst it may not be the ‘in’ thing now, how about spending time with your local church? There are always clubs and such on the go so you’ll never be lonely and the vicar will always look after you and support you (but they won’t give you whiskey!). It was how i spent my youth and many moments touched me like i’d never been touched before.
Anyway, keep up the fight Sacha and good luck.
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The issue of health and safety, of which I am a Director, has been taken far too lightly in this forum. I’ve written a ditty about my thoughts.
Oh what a lovely war
Under the radar, over the wall
Can’t you see, Vamperic
How a man can be pumped & mimiced
My own youth was spent by a hedge
You could say it was better than a ledge
Anyway health and safety’s a must
Right now it’s how i earn a crust
So stop doing it down
Environmental health, health and safety, it’s all gravy baby, it’s all the same, ain’t no space for no picky stuck up Vampire in this town!!
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