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Civil servants in 48-hour strike
Monday 8th March 2010, 2:00PM GMT.
Members of the PCS union strike outside Copthorne Barracks, Shrewsbury
Hundreds of civil servants launched a 48-hour strike today across Shropshire and Mid Wales joining colleagues around the country in a row over redundancy pay.
The walk-out by members of the Public and Commercial Services Union is the biggest outbreak of industrial unrest in the service since 1987 with up to 270,000 workers striking.
Courts, ports, jobcentres, benefit offices, tax centres and emergency police call centres were all affected by today’s action.
PCS general secretary Mark Serwotka said it would show “how vital these people are to the running of our society”.
Up to 30 members manned a picket line this morning outside the RAF base at Cosford near Telford, while at Shrewsbury’s Copthorne Barracks workers from the Ministry of Defence gained the support of passing motorists as they displayed placards.
Maureen Birrell, secretary of the PCS Union MoD branch in Shrewsbury, said about 150 people from the barracks had taken part in the walk-out and described it as a “good turnout”.
She said: “Across the country there will be 270,000 PCS members on strike and that’s all government departments not just the MoD. We are on strike today and tomorrow followed by a work to rule. The workers are quite angry.”
Hundreds of civil and public servants in Mid Wales joined the strike today. Darren Williams, PCS campaig-ns officer for Wales, said members in Newtown, Welshpool, Llandrindod Wells and Brecon had joined.
He said: “We’re expecting all of our members in law courts, tax offices, job centres and Welsh Assembly Government employees acr-oss Newtown, Welshpool and Brecon to pledge their support.”
The union is protesting over changes to the civil service compensation scheme, which it says will “rob” civil servants of up to a third of their entitlements, worth thousands of pounds, when they leave their jobs.
Cabinet Office minister Tessa Jowell said the PCS action was “disappointing”.
By Wayne Beese
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Get back to work you lazy people.
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I’m a civil servant too, and I’m at work today*. I think that the changes proposed to the Civil Service Compensation Scheme, which see a reduction in the amount of ‘redundancy’ payments to civil servants, are fair.
(* I’m on my lunch break, before anyone says anything about civil servants spending taxpayers time/money on surfing the net)
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Civil Serants aren’t asking for more money, they’re asking for their current terms to be honoured. Under the new proposals some civil servants would be thousands of pounds less well off if made compulsorily redundant. All political parties are talking of deep public sevice cuts after the election. Altering these arrangements simply allows the government to put thousands of civil servants on the dole and do it ‘on the cheap’. The vast majority of Civil Servants are not highly paid – 50% earn under £20,000 a year; 20% are paid less than £15,000 a year. We are told these cuts are necessary because of the bail out of the financial sector. In which case it is very interesting that the government does not intend to intervene and stop the Royal Bank of Scotland paying its staff billions of pounds of taxpayers money in bonuses! How dare H St John Peasbody slur thousands of people he has never met or worked with as lazy?
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IF YOU DON’T LIKE IT LEAVE AND GET BACK TOO WORK AND BE GRATEFULL YOU GOT A JOB !!!! YOU ARE NOTHING SPECIAL THERE ARE PLENTY OF OTHER PEOPLE JUST WISHING THEY COULD FIND WORK …SO STOP MOANING AND GET ON WITH IT !!!
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“THERE ARE PLENTY OF OTHER PEOPLE JUST WISHING THEY COULD FIND WORK”
That’s the entire point! By reducing the redundancy packages it will make civil servants more affordable to sack. Then they’ll be joining the ever growing ranks of the unemployed, all competing for fewer and fewer jobs – no doubt to then be painted as workshy benefit scroungers. Civil Servants don’t claim to be anything special, they want a fair, living wage and not to have their entitlements thrown out of the window due to an economic criis not of their own making! If you want to have a go at anyone have a go at the government and the banking/financial sector.
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Show some patiotism and backbone. Civil Servants..man your mouse’s and woman your work stations. Your country needs you and time is short, UK Plc is sinking under the crashing fiscal waves. Albion’s fate is uncertain. Back to work with gusto and vigour. Your hour has come, lead us onto glory! full steam ahead.
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Sorry? Ms.Insults but isn’t everybody ‘less well off’ when they are made made compulsorily redundant? Why are you lot above it all. Get to work you shower!!! Our country can’t afford you anymore. Get over it.
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Patriotism? This country does not look after its workers. The powerful look after the rich who fund them (but avoid paying tax into the nations coffers for schools, hospitals, roads, that sort of stuff). Funny how we weren’t ‘all in this together’ when the massive bonuses were being shelled out, but now the brown stuff has hit the fan we’re all in the firing line!
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“Sorry? Ms.Insults but isn’t everybody ‘less well off’ when they are made made compulsorily redundant? ”
Less well of than when they would have been under the previous arrangements. That’s the whole point of the dispute!
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To ‘facts not insults’, you quote the earnings figures above, but you do not mention how many hours these ‘poorly’ paid wretches actually work, but no doubt it is the customary 35 hours or less, in which case a salary of £15000 equates to an hourly rate of £8.24 which is hardly the minimum wage is it ??.
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Re: #9 – Facts not insults say “Less well of than when they would have been under the previous arrangements. That’s the whole point of the dispute!”
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But even with the new CSCS terms, still considerably better off than other workers who have been, or may be made, redundant in the future. 2x annual salary is more than generous compared to what private sector gets.
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As expected, here’s the usual diatribe of anti-public service abuse, doubtless most of it from people who either wouldn’t have the qualifications to join in the first place, or, if they do, wouldn’t work for such poor pay.
Doubtless we will see contributions from people too lazy or indifferent to join a trade union to stand up to their exploitative employers who will whinge ‘If I were to go on strike I’d be sacked!’ – Not if it were legally constituted industrial action you wouldn’t! – Why can’t some of you grow a spine and join with your fellow workers for a change? Why do you want to attack a group of fellow workers for doing just that?
Doubtless the sort of tinpot tuppeny-ha’penny employers who make bullish claims that they’d ‘sack all trade unionists’ love such forelock-tugging subservient workers.
The facts behind this strike are these:
The current rules on Civil Service Redundancy were negotiated and agreed back in the ’80s.
Ever since, they have consistently been used in pay negotiations by management to keep pay settlements down, the argument being ‘Well you have good pensions and redundancy arrangements, so you don’t get a big pay rise’. Throughout the high-inflation high pay-settlement years of the 80′s and early 90′s, where the private sector were often getting double-digit pay settlements, the civil service were always restricted to lower, single-digit pay increases – they’ve paid for these redundancy and pension rights over the years, they are part of their employment contract, and now they’re being torn up. A pretty good reason for a strike I should think.
Oh, and before anyone comes up with a load of guff about Brown destroying private-sector pensions, remember that the principal factor in private sector final-salary schemes going belly-up was the failure of employers to keep up their contributions when times were good. Instead of choosing to invest profits in their pension schemes, they took ‘pensions holidays’ and chose to give the money to shareholders instead. And of course the larger shareholders in such companies are often? Yes, you’ve guessed it – their senior managers!
The government should be getting this money back from greedy bankers, not from hard-working public servants!
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Facts not Insults – well said. When the minimum wage was introduced thousands of civil servants had their wages increased as a result – thousands! Civil servants have always had more more benefits for less pay, and their terms and conditions should be honoured. They are also dedicated and committed – you won’t find many other professions where employees have worked with the same organisation for 40 years.
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It is obviously that those of you making rude and unnecessary bad comments have very little knowledge and understanding about what these people are going throught. Not all of us taking striking action are civil servants with the benefit you THINK we have.
I have been involved in my organisation being restructed 4 times since 2001. I have had to apply for my job on a number of occasions, gone thought enough stress to last a lifetime and had to make some very hard decisions about my job and the impact it has on my family.
So dont you dare bad mouth people striking when you have absolutely no idea why they are doing it.
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I am a member of the PCS union, but I am not a civil servant. I have worked for my organisation for 10 years and have experienced 4 restructures to date, had to apply for my own job on several occasions and will probably have to again after the next election. All we are asking for is that our terms and conditions remain unchanged. Whilst some of you are throwing insults and branding us as “lazy”, ask yourself how would you like it if your employer changed your Terms and Conditions on a regular basis? It is hardly lazy for people in this economic climate to give up two days pay to demonstrate for something they feel so strongly about! I am not sure if it is confusion by branding us all fat cats that sit behind a desk all day or just plain ignorance, however I hope that none of you are planning on taking your driving test over the next two days!
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‘Stephen’ writes you quote the earnings figures above, but you do not mention how many hours these ‘poorly’ paid wretches actually work, but no doubt it is the customary 35 hours or less.
I’m on well under £20,000 and work 37 hours a week. No doubt, eh? Your suppositions show just how ill informed those who attack striking civil servants are.
‘Davey’ writes “But even with the new CSCS terms, still considerably better off than other workers who have been, or may be made, redundant in the future. 2x annual salary is more than generous compared to what private sector gets”
The fact is civil servants’ average earnings growth has lagged behind other sectors for 10 years. If the government were that bothered about parity with the privat sector then they would have addressed the issue of low pay in the public sector before now. Were you calling for public servants pay to be brought in line with the private sectore during the ‘boom years’? I very much doubt it. The hypocrites who used to bleat on about the ‘politics of envy’ are now demanding that public servants pay the price for an economic catastrophe not of their making. Shouldn’t the government be clamping down on the greedy businessmen who deprive our economy of billions every year and the banks paying out billions of taxpayers money to reward their ‘talent’?
Peter, thank God for someone interested in the working people in this country standing up for what’s right and fair. WE shouldn’t be paying for THEIR recession!
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“As expected, here’s the usual diatribe of anti-public service abuse, doubtless most of it from people who either wouldn’t have the qualifications to join in the first place, or, if they do, wouldn’t work for such poor pay.”
this is very funny on many levels.
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… PCS general secretary Mark Serwotka said it would show “how vital these people are to the running of our society”.
Ah nice tactic, trying to hold the country to ransom. I notice most of the strike effected depts were benefits and emergency services related. That’s a great way to generate public support for your cause,; effectively demanding more money by stopping services for people with no money. Joined up thinking there guys, have you ever considered working for town planning?
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I am out of work and would love a job. Let us swap then you would have something to moan about.
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Mark,
Assuming you have the necessary qualifications you are perfectly at liberty to apply to become a Civil Servant, or for any other public sector job. Good luck with your application. Please keep us all posted to let us know how you get on.
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Holding the country to ransom?
That’ll be the bankers who, having been bailed out to the tune of billions of pounds, now demand the same astronomical bonuses (paid in taxpayers money, naturally) or threaten to leave the country.
This can all be laid at the door of a government who declared itself ‘intensely relaxed about people becoming filthy rich’ and encouraged an economy built on casino captalism.
Why should public servants lose their terms and conditions to pay for the bonuses of people who caused this recession in the first place?
Why are you not accusing them of ‘holding the country to ransom’?
Public servants are demonstrably not ‘holding the country to ransom’, as they are not demanding any money, other than that to which they are contractually entitled.
Our government defends the bonuses of RBS workers on the grounds that they are ‘contractual entitlements’. Yet is refusing to honour the contractual entitlements of public servants.
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Mark,If you had a job, Would you not fight to keep it.If you gave up a business for poor pay on the grounds of job security and a good pension would you fight to protect them? Is your gripe that we should all have poor pay and conditions, or is it your giro may be late.
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Whatever the rights or wrongs of this situation, the fact remains that this strike is a precursor of what is to come, the consequences of the old cliche “you ain’t seen nuttin yet” is going to hit this country after the next government get’s in, Labour, Tory, Lib Dem or whatever. This strike is going to be orderly, restrained and over very quickly with minimum disruption to essential services but this approach is not going to last over the coming months/years, strikes and massive public disorder is going to return. The consequences of unrestrained borrowing and spending by the Labour Government over the past 13 years is now catching up on a hitherto closseted (and I am an ex Civil Servant) group of workers who are now seeing themselves having to put up with what those in the private sector have had thrown at them for the past few years.
Every worker, public, civil service or private is going to feel the backlash and wages, taxes and investment in public services are all going to be adversely affected. As a pensioner, my occupational pension it at a “standstill” this year as with thousands of others and my state pension has been increased by less than £2.50 a week. It is no use me cribbing, we are all in the same boat. The country is devastated and not one of us will escape the financial consequences.
Brown promises another 5 years of the same, let him have it. No other party or person should be made to apply the drastic remedies needed to get us out of this morass that we are in because the blame for the past will fall on them.
We are in for a pretty awful future, Labour caused it, let them get us out of it. When the streets are taken over by mass strikers, pickets and all the other consequences of a country on it’s uppers, look no further than Brown, Blair and the Labourites who ran true to form with past years and now insult us by asking us to vote them in again. Any party other than Labour who takes over after this lot is going to commit political suicide. I only wish that on Labour – nobody else.
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Poor civil service workers. How DO you cope ?
http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/industry_sectors/public_sector/article6974029.ece
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Well sack half of them , (just around the corner I think) and then get the rest to do their jobs as well as their own .
And as for this comment
“As expected, here’s the usual diatribe of anti-public service abuse, doubtless most of it from people who either wouldn’t have the qualifications to join in the first place, or, if they do, wouldn’t work for such poor pay.”
classic , classic .
if you joined knowing the pay was so poor you clearly arnt as bright as you think you are ?.
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I am a civil servant. I work within JobCentre Plus I earn £17240 per year for 37 hours per week, 6 weeks holiday and fexible working hours. I have a pension of which I contribute approx 1.5% of my monthly salary (new entrants contribute far more). After 40 years of full employment I would receive a pension equal to half my salary. If I am made redundant my package would be circa £35k (the 1st £30k being tax free). I have 20 years service and the majority of my co workers more. Why? Because of what I have detailed here. We civil servant are well paid and protected, end of.
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I’m a Civil Servant working for the MoD and I fully support the action. I am disgusted at the actions of the Govt to total ignore our contracted rights. However, I am also disgusted at the conduct of my Management who are totally incompetent and they are still in their jobs. These people would get redundancy when I would have sacked them for being inept. They employed Agency staff and recruited 2 new members of staff to do a job that I could do. I was sitting around with no work to do and management even refused to allow me to do this work. To keep me quiet my Line Manager recommended me for an Enhanced Bonus award for doing nothing. I raised grievances on these issues and was told I was in the wrong. So I can understand when people think that they don’t get value money but this is down to poor Management.
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Andrew Finch writes:
Well sack half of them , (just around the corner I think) and then get the rest to do their jobs as well as their own .
Numbers in my department have decreaded year by year to meet stingent government headcount targets. We are already working more and more intensively to meet ever more stringent delivery targets.
Can you explain to me why you appear to be so gleeful at the prospect of people like myself being made redundant and therefore unable to pay my mortgage, which would result in me being made homeless if I couldn’t find new jobs on similar pay almost immediately?
Particularly bearing in mind we know that I would be joining a long list of people competing for fewer and fewer jobs (or benefit scroungers as you’d no doubt categorise them).
I really struggle to understand why you would seemingly revel in such a scenario.
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The government cannot just go changing the terms of someone’s employment in response to the economic climate – however, the civil servants should at the same time realise they have been better paid than the average industry worker for many years and had the benefits of a protected position so they should not be surprised if they are then subject to some changes at the moment and these should be negotiated.
Worker in Solidarity – I don’t wish to see anyone lose their home but you are fortunate to have ever been in a position to have ever bougt your own home – I earn a good wage and have done for many years now but because I’m have no partner I will never be able to earn enough to afford a mortgage on my own so that is a dream I can never hope to realise.
Milly can I have your job?!
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I own a small one bedroom house together with my wife who is also a civil servant.
Perhaps this is too extravagant for the public sector haters who presumably think a hut, or maybe a kennel would be more fitting.
Let’s get this in perspective, public sector spending did not cause this crisis, it was the casion capitalism encouraged by a ‘Labour’ government that had moved so far to the right as to be indistinguishable from the Tories.
I also ask those attacking criticising striking workers if they believe that their employes should be able to rip up and re-write their terms and conditions at will.
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Andrew,
As is so often the case, you’ve missed the point. I’m not a Civil servant, I moved to the private sector many years ago – having also been a Cicil servant for many years.
Many Civil Servants have put up with the poor pay for decades, precisely because the reason given was that they had good pension and redundancy rights. The current strike is about the Government’s attempt to tear up contractual agreements that have been in place throughout those decades, without any recompense for doing so. You simply can’t have it both ways.
Suellan, it may be the case that civil Servants have been paid more than the average unskilled worker, but when compared to people with similar skills and academic qualifications they have never been well-paid.
Believe it or not, many have principles, and are motivated by working for the public good rather than for private profit. As with Mark earlier in the thread, you are perfectly at liberty to apply for a job like Milly’s, though I doubt if you would be able to afford a mortgage on £17k per year. I’m sure that Milly could also telll you tales of abuse and violence visited upon Jobcentre staff by some of their ‘clients’ – I doubt if you’d enjoy this aspect of the job.
Stuart, your assertion that the Government has caused the crisis in public spending simply doesn’t hold water. Prior to the failure of the banks, government borrowing as a percentage of GDP was 40 or so percent. This was a figure higher than at some periods in the last few decades (you’d perhaps expect that during a periosd of high investment in health and education), but it was by no means exceptionally high or the the highest. Back in the late ’50s and early ’60s, it was over 100% for long periods.
It currently stands at over 70% – with the increase from the 40% level solely due to the collapse of financial services capitalism.
So it’s clear, the bankers have caused the current problem, and the summary in comment #22 is an accurate one.
I despair of the posters here who seem to think that poorly paid workers will gain by attacking the terms and conditions of other groups of poorly paid workers. The only people who revel in that sort of argument are exploitative poor-quality employers, who must rub their hands with glee at such pocket-filling (for them!) squabbles.
Shropshire has, unfortunately a low pay economy. Whilst to some extent this is a result of the abandonment of traditional industrial skills in favour of the ‘streets paved with gold in the City of London’ approach, and of a low skill base in general, I can’t help but think that it is also a product of the pathetic subservience of so many of our workers. Take a lead from the Civil Servants and stand up for your entitlements! If we’re ever to move from the situation where 95% of this country’s wealth is owned by 5% of the people, we need people to stand up against cuts in their terms and conditions of employment. Unfortunately, despite the long held Tory dogma that ‘the market will provide’ it simply doesn’t do so.
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worker in solidarity, I have not got a desire to see you lose your home. However neither can we just keep more people than is needed doing jobs where half of the workforce will do .And the main bit neither can we keep giving generous redundency packages to people when they lose their job why have you right to keep your house over nayone else most of us have lost jobs once or twice thats life mate..
The pay may not be brilliant however the overall package is generous and could do with being cut back quite a bit .
As for peters comment
“Doubtless the sort of tinpot tuppeny-ha’penny employers who make bullish claims that they’d ’sack all trade unionists’ love such forelock-tugging subservient workers”
What rubbish as usual, these so called tin pot firms employ people, do give realistic and generous conditions, live in 2010, know how to be competative,. As for terms and conditions yes decided nearly 2 1/2 decades ago things change and as with all employees in the private sector so do terms and conditions , and the employer wanting value for money is top of the list.
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Public service workers – get over yourselves.
Do you think that we in the private sector have not had multiple re-orgsanisations, lost jobs outsourced to offshore companies, YEARS of zero pay rises, increased payments into and decreased output from pension schemes (if you can get one), along with minimum redundancy terms.
ALL of the above, plus working longer unpaid hours, less people to do more work and more penny pinching money scraping saving ideas that I’m surprised we don’t get charged for the privilege of working.
Fight to keep what you have already got but don’t bleat that your lot is so much worse than anyone elses
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Peter, I make no response to yours at 32, we will agree to fundamentally disagree on every aspect of blame for the current situation. You look at things from a Communist/Marxist viewpoint where everything associated with capitalism is wrong irrespective of the circumstances. I look at things from a non-idealogical basis (except a strong aversion to everything socialist) based on facts, truth and plain straightforward, down to earth common-sense. That leads me to the specific conclusion that Brown/Blair and Labour doctrine caused this present disaster and I utterly reject your explanation for it so shall we stop flogging the dead horse. Yours at 13 say’s it all, indeed you are a couple of degrees away from admitting that you are a red flag flying, way out “communist”.
Well let’s see where those who follow this ideology take us. Ex Communists are in charge of two of the main Trade Unions who are now continually threatening industrial and social unrest. Indeed if we look at the leadership of the Union behind the present strike we will see where they are coming from. It is nothing about alteration of working conditions and contracts – it is all about satisfying the perverted political and social ends of the Union leaders concerned. The workers them selves are regarded as the fodder and the bullets that those leaders who shout their mouths off, fire from the background.
And one more thing, some commentators speak of Civil Service Ministry and Department heads as if they are their “employers”. They are not, never have been and never will be as long as they remain in the Civil Service. The “employer” for all Civil Servants of whatever grade, be it the cabinet Secretary or the Head of the Civil Service themselves are all “civil Servants”. Their collective employer is “the Government”. Their “employer” at this moment in time is this Labour Government. If the strikers have a beef, they let them take it up with the Government not with the head of their particular branch or Ministry.
And another thing Peter, Brown did decimate the private sector’s pension schemes. If you say he didn’t, as in so many things, you must be the only one in the country saying that.
Let’s have less of the socialism, communism and harking back to the days of the Russian revolution and let’s have more common sense and an acceptance of facts which the greater majority of those with intelligence accept. Many of those on these streams are grown up people, they are not taken in by socialist rubbish.
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‘Stuart’ writes “I look at things from a non-idealogical basis (except a strong aversion to everything socialist) based on facts, truth and plain straightforward, down to earth common-sense”
Absolutely no ideology involved there, then… The facts are that it’s the free market, neo-liberal ideology of unfettered capitalism that has got us into this mess, not socialism.
And where exactly does Peter ‘hark back to the days of the Russian revolution’? Please quote.
You profess your view of things to be based on common sense, but to paraphrase Albert Einstein ‘common sense is a collection of prejudices’. Something you demonstrate rather aptly.
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And, while I think about it, here are some other facts:
All the main political parties, including the current Labour government, have signalled their intent to make substantial cuts to the public sector. This will inevitably mean job losses.
At the same time, the government wants to make the redundancy packages of those who face the axe less generous.
Perhaps, Stuart, you can use your professed ‘plain, straight forward, down-to-earth common sense’ to put two and two together!
Or do you still stand by your absurd assertion that (the strike) is nothing about alteration of working conditions and contracts?
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Stuart,
Once again, a post from yourself full of ranting and massive exaggerations about my political stance, and completely devoid of factual evidence to support your view.
Do you challenge the facts about national debt as a proportion of GDP? If so I’d be happy to see your evidence. Do you deny that this rose from around 43% to over 70% solely as a result of the failed banks? Do you deny that the proportion of national debt to GDP was over 100% in the late ’50s and early ’60s? Do you deny that 95% of this country’s wealth is in the hands of 5% of its people? Are you content with that?
I’m always happy to deal in facts Stuart, but you never seem to present any. As for the idea of you looking at things from a non-ideological background, I laughed out loud. If one were to (metaphorically) slice you in two, the word ‘Tory’ would be there for all to see, like a stick of rock.
I’ve never suggested that the Goverment are anything other than the employers of Civil Servants. In this instance the Government have decided to try and break contractual obligations for its staff without negotiation. I see that as a legitmate reason to protest.
Moving on to the topic of tinpot employers, Andrew, I would suggest that any employer who is not interested in listening to the legitimate concerns of his/her workers, or to recognise their right to join a trade union and have that recognised where membership levels within the company dictate that they should, is not an employer, but an exploiter.
There’s a difference between being ‘competative’ (sic) and ripping people off.
Your sweeping statements about ‘half the workforce’ and ‘benefits packages’ are based upon nothing but ignorance and prejudice.
Here’s a challenge for you: list the ‘benefits’ that Civil Servants get other than their salaries and pension. Then specify 10 Civil Service posts that we could get rid of tomorrow.
I look forward to your response…
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Civil servants should have the statutory minimum, after all the govmt thinks it’s good enough for the rest of us so should practice what it preaches and enforce that on civil servants….then if the statutory mins aren’t good enough they should be changed en masse so everybody can benefit. and yes, fair market rates should also apply to salaries, there’s a reason people in the civil service are loyal and work their for years, 1) the rates and benefits are highly attractive and 2) the pace is slow and not exactly rocket science – admin is admin is admin….
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now you see I like Stuart and I like Peter. But which one is better? There’s only one to find out …
FIGHT!!!!!!
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Yesterday there was a striking civil servant on radio 5 and he is striking because after the changes he will ONLY get £60,000 instead of £150,000… this for a full time worker in the DWP on £24k per year…
All of you union members try and justify that? 10 years is his service and if his job becomes a non job then he is entitled to practically a free house??? And he would still be at the front of the line for rehiring somehwere else due to “public sector experience”…
come off it, you reds… the country is bankrupt and savigns have to be made and if the costs are at this astronomical scale then the entire country will be bankrupt!
For the record, I think we should have let the banks go and reset the housing market… when interest rates go up the repossession rate will go through the roof and the “crash” we had in 08/09 will look like a minor blip… At which point the banks will go under again and the country will not be able to bail them again, so the only effect the entire country’s reserves will have been able to secure is to allow the rich a 12 month warning to solidify their assets to protect their affluence…
The worst is yet to come, both in strikes and banking problems but mostly in pure, unadultered misery…
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Worker in Solidarity.
Now, there is a good left wing/trade unionist title to start with. So why should I not regard your comments in the same light as Peter’s, that is, with contempt. You both appear to have the same “red” tinge. Yes, I think I mentioned, I certainly do have a political prejudice and that is, I am utterly opposed to anything that smells of socialism, extreme trade unionism or the discredited policies that were propagated amongst workers under previous Labour Governments of the old school.
I said above, that all of us, without exception (including myself as a pensioner) have to put up with forthcoming misery in order to mend the damage done by Blair/Brown. I am in agreement with a large proportion of the population in this regard – most people now know what lies ahead, that is except for those Trade Unions with the extremists in charge of them, ie The Public and Commercial Services Union (PCS) and Unite. These are said to be building up a “war chest” of £25 million to fight the Tories if they gain power. Nothing here about Tory policies or anyone else’s for that matter, they are preparing now to go on strike irrespective of the policies of the then (possible Tory) Government in power.
Yes, I couldn’t agree more, these changes to the redundancy rates of Civil Servants have “conveniently” been brought up because this Labour Government envisages huge cuts in the Civil Service and it is a blatant way of saving on the whole redundancy package. Notwithstanding, Civil Servants will get a redundancy package that puts those in the private sector in the shade. Three other unions amongst Civil Servants accept the overall package without striking or indeed threatening to strike, only those with “red’s” or “pinks” in charge actually go the whole hog and strike.
And, when it comes to my prejudice, “Worker in Solidarity” (That’s a really appropriate name for a subject dealing with a strike or industrial unrest), I would go so far to say that anyone tinged with a red brush or extreme socialism should be forcibly deported to Russia or North Korea. Let them start their antics there.
This country is in dire trouble, the last thing it needs is worker strife or unrest, we are all in it together. Thank Mr Brown and his cabal.
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‘Stuart’ writes:
“These are said to be building up a “war chest” of £25 million to fight the Tories…”
I thought you dealt in only facts. Who is ‘saying’ these things?
As for your talk of deportation, you’re beginning to sound like that nice Mr Griffin!
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i will not reply to the right wing tosh written above. a civil service job used to be for life, no longer, it is a here today gone tomorrow career. i am 100% behind pcs, tony russell unite union in comeradeship. up the workers
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Very, very sad. People on low and relatively low incomes snarling and snapping jealously at each other as they fight over the miserable scraps left to them by jumped up kids sitting in front of computer screens in the City, gambling with other people’s money.
No, we should NOT be pathetically grateful to the massively rich for kindly allowing people to earn a pittance in comparison with them. ‘Oh master, you want to break this agreement you made with me and pay me less? Certainly master, shall I lick your boots as well?”
Makes me puke.
For goodness sake, Stuart and others, look up from ‘you’ve got a bigger bowl of leftovers than me’ and see who is dumping all of us.
Americans work much longer hours, have very few holidays, no maternity pay, almost no workers rights – and they hate unions and suck up to the rich. I fear we’re going the same way.
Stop whining, grow a pair and stand up to the idle rich who do NOT deserve forelock-tugging respect. If someone has a contract, yes they are fully entitled to protest – and strike – if that gets ripped up by their employer.
As for ‘can I have your job’ – as Peter says, bloomin well get off your bum and apply for one and stop backbiting.
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“I would go so far to say that anyone tinged with a red brush or extreme socialism should be forcibly deported to Russia or North Korea. Let them start their antics there.”
Good idea. Let’s clear out everyone except two groups.
1) Those with money and power they often inherited or got through the old boy network and now think they have the right to treat everyone else like cr*p
and 2) All the people who are happy to shut up and be grateful.
Every heard of McCarthyism? If not, Google is your friend. You seem to have plenty of time on your hands, I just wish you used it to research some facts to go with your ignorant whining.
Must stop, I have to go to work. Yes, I have a job and I work damn hard, earning less than many public employees, but I’ll stand on a picket line with them any time.
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Kath,
Well said. Thank god for someone else who sees that all workers, whether private or public sector are under attack and shouls stand together.
Andy (#40), the figures you quote are simply wrong. Ten years service on that salary would not result in such a payout. There are civil servants entitled to larger amounts, but they would need to have been at a certain grade or above in April 1987 (so have had a length of service of at least 23 ywars). either the report was wrong or you must have misheard.
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Worker in Solidarity, you ask “who is saying these things”. The guy in charge of the PCS, Serwotka no less, on TV in an interview on Sunday. He is preparing to take on the Tories NOW when he doesn’t even know what their policies will be and disregards the fact that Labour will have to do exactly the same, indeed, this present strike is against present Labour policy but he is only preparing industrial action against a Tory government. High principles indeed and all in support of his members interests – what obscene policy is that.
For those who doubt my credentials, I am a pensioner who was a home Civil Servant for some years and an overseas Civil Servant for many more. I say that you have it pretty good under the present circumstances. Stop the bleating, stop the striking and accept that this country is virtually done for under Brown’s rule. And those who think that Civil Servants are hard done to, it is a fact that Brown has increased their pay by 15% since 1997 and their productivity (I have no idea how this is measured) is down 4%. Private sector pay workers have, on the other hand seen their pay reduced, stopped or flat lined since 1997 and their productivity has risen by 18%. How many “private sector” workers who have taken pay reductions or had it stopped have gone on strike – answers please.
Those who advocate all “standing together” perhaps don’t understand that the country is in meltdown, every party of every pursuasion – if they gain power has got to do a repair job of drastic proportions to repair Brown’s damage, so, presumably the answer to our problems then is for the Civil Service to “stand together” and all go on strike. That is an absolute betrayal for which the country would never (and rightly so) forgive them. The Civil Servants want to get real.
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“He is preparing to take on the Tories NOW when he doesn’t even know what their policies will be and disregards the fact that Labour will have to do exactly the same”
Exactly the same as what? I thought no-one knew what Tory policies would be?
Anyway, I’d stop bothering if I were you. If public employees are a useless, overpaid, non-productive bunch, let them strike indefinitely, at least you won’t be paying them.
In fact, sack the lot. As an ex civil servant you know such people are a drain on the public finances and a waste of money, after all you were one.
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“Private sector pay workers have, on the other hand seen their pay reduced, stopped or flat lined since 1997″
Are you including bankers in that?
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For someone whose favourite response seem to be that someone else’s comment is not worthy of reply, or is held in contempt, or some other equally smug, patronising putdown from his lofty position of all-knowing superiority……Stuart seems to spend a hell of a lot of time responding angrily to comments on here.
Perhaps it’s a hangover from his time as an overseas civil servant, trying to maintain standards as a solitary representative of empire as “our man in the British Protectorate of Godforsakenland”.
I’ll understand if this comment isn’t worthy of a reply from him…..
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tc, £38:
“Civil servants should have the statutory minimum, after all the govmt thinks it’s good enough for the rest of us so should practice what it preaches and enforce that on civil servants”
Are you suggesting MPs should be on the minimum wage? I think I might be agreeing with you!
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There seems to be a lot of people here who support these striking Civil Servants and some of these same responses are clearly from people who will be voting Labour at the election. Very strange.
I wonder what the response will be though, when (whichever Government is in power)cuts in services, tax increases and job losses amongst both the public and private sector begin to really, really bite. What will working wives say when teachers go on strike, what will those on benefits say when staff in offices strike and they don’t get their benefits on time, what will you say when the rubbish piles up, uncollected. When passport offices close and you can’t go on holiday.
You lot with the pro strike views who shout down and insult those with differing views, just think what a “no holds barred” pro strike attitude is likely to result in. No person in this country is going to remain unaffected when things start to bite, why should Civil Servants think that they are different, many of those in the private sector who have seen their salaries cut or blocked haven’t gone on strike and they don’t have the redundancy packages that Civil Servants do.
Kath, apart from saying that CS have it pretty good, I have not made one critical remark about them, the aspersions contained in yours at 48 with regard to them bare no resemblance to any word that I have uttered. This is you view of them not mine.
As for Rob, you are indeed worthy of a reply but merely to tell you that this stream is to do with striking Civil Servants but true to form, in your usual juvenile way, yours at 50 contains not one word relevant to that issue. Perhaps you would indicate that you do have some level of intelligence by coming out “for” or “against” this strike so that we all know where you are coming from. But perhaps you don’t have a view one way or the other because it is a bit above you. Grow up.
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‘Stuart writes “He is preparing to take on the Tories NOW when he doesn’t even know what their policies will be and disregards the fact that Labour will have to do exactly the same, indeed, this present strike is against present Labour policy but he is only preparing industrial action against a Tory government”
No, Stuart he IS taking action against a Labour government – it’s Labour currently in power, remember – and the Union intends to take further action if Tessa Jowell will not agree to further talks.
As for Tory policies, althought they’re rather evasive on what they will do should they come to power, we know that they boast they plan to cut ‘deeper and sooner’ than Labour.
Given this stance is it any wonder Mark Serwotka is making pre-emptive preparations to defend his members in a climate of much macho rhetoric from ALL THREE main parties about ‘savage’ and ‘swingeing’ cuts.
The Tories, aided by a largeley pliant, right-wing media, have managed to change the terms of the debate to deflect for the economic crisis from the greedy bankers and speculators (that Labour and Conservatives have both encouraged all the way, make no mistake)on to the public sector.
“Big government is what got us into this mess” procalims David Cameron, conveniently airbrushing the bankers and proponents of de-regulation (like HIMSELF) from the picture.
Labour actually got it RIGHT in bailing out the banks – Big Government saved this country from meltdown – but then made the mistake of not nationalising these banks and taking them under state control. Instead the bail out was ‘condition free’ and we see Alistair Darling pleading impotence in the face of RBS handing out billions of tax payers money in bonuses, yet ripping up the contracts of public sector workers with a view to sacking thousands on the cheap. Disgraceful.
As for your earlier comment that “Three other unions amongst Civil Servants accept the overall package without striking or indeed threatening to strike, only those with “red’s” or “pinks” in charge actually go the whole hog and strike”
Are you aware that PCS represents nearly three times as many public servants as those ‘other’ unions you refer to and that the vast majority of its members are on the lowest paid grades of AA, AO and EO, or that FDA, Prospect, Unite, GMB or POA do not represent any workers on these grades?
Mark Serwotka puts his members interests first and cannot be “bought off”, so the predictable dirty tricks and character assassinations have begun from those he stands up to.
And the most important point of all is that the proposed swingeing cut to the public sector won’t beneift anyone, except for maybe the small elite that George Osborne and David Cameron truly represent.
Ireland is a case study in what happens when you make these cuts and economists such as David Blanchflower and Paul Kruger are already warning of the danger of a double-dip recession in the UK.
Wake up and realise that the people who cause this crisis are the ones who should be paying for it, public servants are just a convenient scapegoat for the government and the other main parties and their mates in big business.
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Stuart,
You said ‘Private sector pay workers have, on the other hand seen their pay reduced, stopped or flat lined since 1997′ – may we have your evidence to back that assertion please?
You see the Office of National Statistics has it that over that period public and private sector pay have risen at similar rates, with the private sector benefitting more in the earlier years, and the public sector doing slightly better in the last couple of years.
Ironically, the figures over the last couple of years have been slewed in favour of the public sector because 250,000 bank staff were reclassified as public sector workers.
In terms of average weekly pay, the public sector comes out a little better than the private sector, but this is explainable by the simple fact that a higher proportion of people with degrees and other further education work in the public sector, and the private secctor employs a larger number of low skilled, low paid workers.
15% in 13 years sounds a lot doesn’t it? But think about that compared to the inflation rate over those years – it’s actually a significant pay cut in real terms.
All of my statements are backed by fact Stuart – where are your facts? I’ve invited both yourself and others in this discussion to respond with facts, but they are strangely absent.
One final thing. You were previously a Civil Servant. Given that the PCSPS hasn’t changed in many years until this attack on it, I’m assuming that you would have benefitted in your time from similar redundancy rights, and an index-linked pension for your years of service. Good luck to you – long may it continue to be paid, but why would you seek to deny similar benefits to your modern-day equivalents?
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Hi Kath, good call on min wage for MP’s, although no, I wouldn’t expect that – I would expect fair market rates for them – market rates being used for a job with similar responsbilities and working conditions, so probably far less than they are on now.
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