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Letter: Police lecture was not needed
Tuesday 17th November 2009, 7:57AM GMT.
Letter: The Association of Chief Police Officers has shown the public exactly what it thinks of its officers. The 93-page booklet on using a bicycle shows it believes their officers are devoid of any common sense. This is obviously not true, or is it?
Last night, as I was coming out of the private drive where I live, a police car was parked at the exit while the policeman was talking to, I think, a fireman. There had obviously been some sort of incident.
I waited patiently for the car to allow me to come out of the private drive on to the main road. The police car duly moved turning to the left. He did not signal.
As I drew up to the exit he came to the passenger door and lectured me on using my indicators. I was not on a road and there was no-one to signal to. The lecture was on being courteous to other road users.
I would have thought, being courteous, you do not block people’s drives if you can help it.
I shall remember this in future when volunteering information.
Do they want co-operation from the public? Because this is not the way to get it
D L Barnett
Arleston
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ACPO the Association of Chief Police officers Union.
PC’s are not allowed a union but the bosses hide under another flag. (ACPO)
This booklet is all about covering ACPO members backsides incase anyone gets hurt riding a bike.
Whoever win the next election seriously need to disband ACPO asap before they get too strong to rein in.
Incidently who gave these people the right to decide which laws to implement and which not.
Because that is what they do at their ”union” meetings.
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And what do we learn from this? That it is OK for police to block private drives and to not use signals.
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Sadly it is some police officer’s petty behavior which can get peoples backs up, and clearly the officer wanted you to signal in order for him to know which way to turn. Driving through coleham the other day i saw 2silly strutting their stuff cso’s with a proper police officer a girl approached them on a bike yes she shouldnt be on the pavement, in to action the cso goes hand in the girls face and a point “do no ride on the pavement” the young girl seemed to understand and ceased however having been on the odd course on how to deal the the gp that action by the cso was aggressive and confrontational . I for one do not mind being talked to by a proper fully trained police officr if he is acting properly and in the course of his duty but i would not be dictated to by a poor qualified overpaid glorified cso who i was not consulted about by the labour shower in charge and i do hope who ever takes over gets rid of this policeing on the cheap
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Yet another classic example of “Do as I say, not do as I do”
I myself witnessed a police officer, driving a WMC beat car take a left turn at the bottom of Madeley Road onto Waterloo Street…this is an illegal turn, and there are 3 road signs just prior to the roundabout/junction that clearly state DO NOT TURN LEFT, instead you are supposed to go all the way around the mini roundabout there and then turn off.
Obviously those road and traffic signs are only for us mere mortals, and police officers can disregard them as and when they see fit! It’s time coppers toed the line and obeyed the law the same way as we have to. I have also witnessed many many times where officers do NOT indicate, drive whilst using mobile phones and jump traffic lights and break the speed limit.
I decided not to bother reporting this officer for his illegal traffic manoevre because I, like so many others know that it would have been ignored, and no further action or reprimand would have taken place, ergo…why waste my time?
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English Exile, FACTS are as follows:-
(a) Ranks in the Police Force are, for purposes of “representation” divided into three groups, ie, (i) the “Federated Ranks” covering those ranks from Constable to Chief Inspector, their professional body is the Police Federation. (ii) the “Superintending Ranks”, covering the ranks of Superintendent and Chief Superintendent, their professional body is The Superintendent’s Association. (iii) the “Chief Officer” ranks, covering the ranks of Assistant Chief Constable, Deputy Chief Constable and Chief Constable. It also includes the ranks of Commander, Deputy Assistant Commisioner and Assistant and Deputy Commisioners in the Metropolitan Police together with the Commissioner of that Force. Their professional body is The association of Chief Police Officers or ACPO for short. (and just to explode one myth, the Commisioner of Police of the Metropolis is the senior Police Officer in London only, he is not “above” a Chief Constable and has no authority over a Chief Constable, many papers refer to the Commisioner as the countries “senior Policeman” this is a misnomer and not strictly correct.
FACT, not one of these representative bodies is a “trade union”. The law does not allow Police to have or belong to a Union.
ACPO is many things but definately not a Union, it can also be compared to many other statutory professional bodies, loosely perhaps the BMA, the Law Society and similar. It’s remit is far to large to outline here but you are utterly and totally wrong in almost everything you have to say about it.
“Police discretion” (ie when it comes to what, and what not offences to “prosecute”) was, since the date of it,s inception, a cornerstone of policing in a democratic society. Many years ago, this “discretion” was challenged in the High Court by a person agrieved because the Police (if I recall correctly) failed to act when it was thought they should do. The High Court held that the Police have total discretion, nobody can tell them to enforce and/or prosecute and nobody can tell them not to, they must however be prepared to answer if their actions are deemed culpable.
Their failure to enforce the fox hunting legislation is a good example of where they have obviously got their heads together and decided to step lightly.
You read to much into what ACPO is all about and raise quite unnecessary alarm possibly gleaned from papers with a left inclination.
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“ACPO is many things but definately not a Union, it can also be compared to many other statutory professional bodies, loosely perhaps the BMA, the Law Society and similar”
Oh dear Stuart, that’s DEFINITELY the funniest thing I’ve read today. What you say is true in one respect – the police, like the other bodies you mention, seem to be a law unto themselves.
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The UK police make the Stasi look like the Beverley Sisters!
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The Association of Chief Police Officers (ACPO) is a private limited company!
As a private company they are not part of the usual police service but are effectively a private police service answerable only to the home sectary and have been inserted above our police and been given the authority to coordinate police actions set up and control a number of special units staffed by serving police officers detached from their own constabulary and also to conclude government procurement agreements.
However because they are a private company they are not answerable in the normal way to the public or any police authority. Unlike police forces, are not required to provide any information under the Freedom of Information Act and they appear able to operate without justifying their actions to anyone, save the Home Secretary hence their actions could seem to be political.
ACPO also acts as a private think tank and pressure group and has its own media department which conducts media campaigns aimed at agitating for changes in the law. For instance a change in employment law to give priority to women and ethnic minority police applicants, or a call to scrap the right to trial by jury, or the latest idea of a domestic violence database.
The special units run by ACPO include
National Public Order Intelligence Unit
National Domestic Extremism Team,
National Extremism Tactical Co-ordination Unit
It might well be argued that we need a team of police to gather and assess information about for instance climate change demonstrators, or animal rights activists, but that is no argument for such teams to be created and controlled by a private company.
When the ex head of MI5 tells us that the government is exploiting the threat of terrorism to erode civil liberties, I think we should begin to listen and when ACPO is the driving force behind much of this legalisation I think we should all begin to think seriously about the way we are being governed.
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This is my third attempt my E mail address keeps getting rejected .I was in charge of the situation,my response depended on what the police car did .The policeman was going to do what he obviously wanted to do.What I did depended on his actions ,as it was I was helped out onto a clear road By an aquaintance Alfie who recognized me and flashed me out onto a clear and safe road .not all police are the same ,we have two good C.S.O.’s at Arleston very helpful and diligent,we have a good policewoman Sam and also a decent Sergeant Mike .Perhaps Arleston are fortunate .D.L.Barnett
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Rob, you are talking balderdash at best and undeserving of comment.
Ken Adams, a smidgin of what you say is true, the remainder is worse than balderdash, it is plain straightforward “round objects” again unworthy of comment.
I said in 5 that the remit of ACPO is far to wide to comment here and it would need a book to enumerate it so there seems little point in even trying to do so here.
I know what authority I have to speak on this issue, perhaps Rob and Ken Adams would indicate their’s because in almost every particular, they are wrong.
In any event, this was about the silly actions of one PC and English Exile chose to bring up a load of silliness with regard to ACPO which, under these circumstances is wholly irrelevant. I would hazard a guess that English Exile is a retired PC, now in sunnier climes who had as much knowledge and contact with ACPO and it’s members as the man in the moon.
NONE of us should make stupid comments about matters which we know nothing about and I make a habit of not doing so, I do however know about ACPO.
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Stuart – you wouldn’t be a serving or former policeman would you? – it might explain your rude and arrogant attitude. The same attitude that has resulted in the police being held in such low esteem by a large section of the law-abiding population.
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Rob says “The same attitude that has resulted in the police being held in such low esteem by a large section of the law-abiding population.”
I like many others would disagree with this. I have respect and esteem for the police. Dont talk for others !
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confused …rob said” by a large section of the law abiding population” well confused why did you assume he was talking about you? as you could have been in the section he never mentioned so he was not talking about you but could have been talking about me..I bet your confused now……
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That’s it, all have a go at the “easy target”, the Police. Fed up with all you lot moaning about them. It will be a different matter when you need their assistance.
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Rob, after your comment at 6, you have the gall to come out with another lot of silliness. If you don’t like receiving it, simple, don’t try and give it and don’t make stupid comments on subjects you plainly know nothing about. What I am and what I was is irrelevant for these blogs, be assured that I do not comment on issues that I know nothing about. Could I suggest that you do the same.
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Stuart; Sorry I cannot accept that you need a whole book to prove me wrong! In effect you are saying my facts about ACPO are correct! You just do not like my interpretation of this private company’s place in our legal system.
I can live with that! What you have to decide is if you think we should be forced to live under a policing system that is not controlled by the local community but by the Home Sectary of the day with all the political and democratic ramifications attached to that.
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confused said:
“I like many others would disagree with this. I have respect and esteem for the police. Dont talk for others !”
Read your own comment – how am I “talking for others” any more than you?
Perhaps you were confused when you wrote it…..
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Your comment is to ridiculous for words and I will merely say this. I don’t have to decide anything whatsoever, period. Many years ago – and I can still remember it, Police Forces were controlled by “local” Watch Committees, albeit final control was exercised by the Home Secretary.
This was the age of widespread corruption, villainy and almost no accountability. There is on record, many instances of “locals” being in the pockets of Police and police being in the pockets of “locals” You would have no knowledge of this by the sound of things. I had experience of it.
There is much wrong with the present system and indeed, the Police Force itself but ACPO and “local” accountability are just small issues in this overall critique. And just for information, if you look up what the “make-up” of Police Authorities is, you will perhaps see that with democratic checks and balances, there is already a sizeable “local” input.
What you are basing your comments on is personal “opinion”, not knowledge or experience, we should look at your comments in that light.
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I don’t have any respect for the police (except the ones who lets me off when I am stopped for speeding) and I speak for the masses!
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Maybe we should dispense with having a police force such is the contempt they are apparently held in
Bet the UK would be a fantastic place to live then
R.I.P those officers who have died in the course of carrying out their duties
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I am shocked and saddened by the attitude of some of the anti police brigade. I have the good fortune of being acquainted with many, many police officers. By and large they are decent people, doing a difficult job and often faced by a resentful and to say the least “awkward” public. They can’t win. However they investigate crime or enforce the law they will always be faced with undue and unreasonable criticism. Their critics are generally ignorant of the role of police officers (and the law) but in times of difficulty expect them to be there at the drop of a hat. These are our fellow citizens doing an admirable job. As with any profession there may be some who need to be pulled up but on the whole the police are decent people who need the help and support of those who claim to be law abiding.
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Stuart
I never thought it would happen but I agree with you almost entirely. Your professional background comes to the fore. I still won’t share mine in this forum (I’m still working and could be professionally compromised) but suffice to say, it is a relevant one. Thanks for your contributions on this subject…much more superior and more informed than the counter contributions.
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Stuart: I assume you were referring to my comments? You do not say
You have still not addressed where you believe I am wrong about ACPO and the centralising of police powers in the hands of the Home Sectary! Perhaps we are going to have to await the publication of your book on the matter.
The facts are ACPO is a private limited company
It is not subject to the freedom of information act
Although it is mainly financed by the public is not a statutory body and not accountable to the public.
It controls several special units staffed by serving police officers detached from their own constabularies
It is its own pressure group agitating for greater police powers
This is not as you suggest an ill informed personal opinion:
Shami Chakrabarti:
It is a concern about the nature of the creature called ACPO. There is no clear purpose for ACPO. It is not a creature of statute. It is a private company. It is exempt from freedom of information legislation. It has no clear defined role in our constitution. In practice, it seems to have developed over the years to be a range of different animals. Sometimes it appears to be a campaigning pressure group in very sensitive, sometimes party political, debates about new police powers. Sometimes it seems to be something akin to a public body that issues guidance—for example, on very sensitive police power matters. Sometimes it seems more like a staff association for chief police officers,
Baroness Harris of Richmond: from Hansard
What is the constitutional role that ACPO plays? Is it an external reference group for Home Office Ministers? Is it a professional association protecting the interests of senior officers? Is it a public authority which issues guidance and good practice to local forces? Is it a national policing agency? Is it a campaigning pressure group arguing for greater police powers?
Henry Porter the Guardian
” Who has decided that political and environmental groups consisting of individuals, who are guaranteed the rights of demonstration, association, free speech and privacy under the Human Rights Act, should be spied upon by this new sinister police unit?
The answer is the Association of Chief Police Officers – and that is the problem.
Jason Lewis The Mail
Until now, ACPO’s central role in policing has not been questioned as it is seen as an essential, if sometimes controversial, public body writing the rules on police operations as well as campaigning on key issues such as the proposed 90-day detention for terror suspects and the DNA database.
But the organisation is not a public body, nor is it a police trade union or even a campaign group. It is a private company – a self-styled ‘global brand name’ – paid millions of pounds a year by the taxpayer to effectively run the nation’s police forces.
Because ACPO is a private company, members of the public cannot use the Freedom of Information Act to scrutinise its operations. Last night it came under fire from politicians and human rights lawyers, who called for its immediate reform.
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Some police officers as with many other groups do a good job and what they are paid to do some do not as with a number of high profile cases at the min, some behave in a manner that you would question their abuse of power , point, a relative of mine who lives in a culdesac parked their car on the pavement outside their house as they have 4 up matket vehicles and on the odd day all may be in the drive way etc , now neighbors suffering from envy made two complaints to them over 7 weeks even though it did not affect them, one day my relative came home from work and saw a police officer parked by the house another neighbor stated he had been their for an hour or so, the police told them not to park on the pavement as it is ilegal and next time they would get a fixed penalty fine, mmmmm ok answer was to make drive way bigger and resulted in visit from planning but it was done and problem solved . However it was later noticed the police officer and his wife visit the complianing neighbor on a regular basis as they were related ..abuse of power???? i think so , what goes around comes around and the lovely neighbor was visited by all agencies following the incident and had to take down a fence and shed… soon stopped whinging.
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Ken Adams, your response to this debate has been concise and to the point and you have raised some pertinent points which give rise to some concerns! … Stuart you on the other hand come across as a frothy mouth and although I recognise that you may have some considerable knowledge of the subject matter your tone and atitude somehow detracts from it! …. I have the feeling that I am leaving by the same door by which I came in!…
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