Police ‘powerless’ over speeding bikers
Friday 16th October 2009, 8:33AM BST.
Police are almost powerless to stop speeding motorcyclists using rural Shropshire roads to get to the Welsh coast from the West Midlands.
Constable Stuart Lippitt, of the Much Wenlock local policing team, told Shropshire Council’s Joint Consultative Committee for the town this week, that the sheer volume of riders involved created a huge problem for police.
He said officers from West Mercia Police and partner agencies such as the fire service and local authorities had campaigned for the motorcyclists to reduce their speed and make the roads safer for all users and residents of villages lining the route, but without much success.
“For two years I have been campaigning for the motorcyclists to reduce their speed when travelling along the roads around Morville and Much Wenlock,” he said.
“We have had officers stationed at Swancote and Quatford where they all meet on their way through.
“We have even displayed bikes that have been smashed up in accidents to try to educate them about the dangers.
“It’s hard to convince the riders there is a major difference between rural and city roads,” he added.
Joint Consultative Committee chairman Councillor Robert Tindall said that he understood that many of the motorcyclists set off from Dudley and raced each other to Aberystwyth.
“They buy a car park ticket in the West Midlands and head to the coast where they purchase another ticket to check out the time it has taken.
“The one who gets there the quickest is the winner,” he said.
Constable Lippitt said officers had set up speed enforcement traps but these could only be activated in restricted areas.
“The bikers communicate between themselves to warn each other when there is a speed check. They slow down and wave as they go past and then rev up their engines and shoot off again. It’s a game for them,” he told the committee.
“These people on average are aged 40 plus. They are not kids and they hold down very respectable jobs. If we can’t tell them how to behave we have a problem. There is very little else we can do.
“There are some respectable motorcyclists but there are some who abuse it,” he said.
So far this year, seven motorcyclists have been killed in incidents on Shropshire roads.
By Brett Gibbons
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Well get them out of their offices and manning hand held radar guns instead of relying on speed cameras
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Hear, hear.
Speed trap one mile down the road from a suitably large lay-by.
One Bobby on speed check, another on lay-by duty. No. 1 radios to No. 2, who then lines them up for a ticket. At 3 minutes a pop, that’s, 20 an hour. If they have to wait to be processed, they have to wait.
Surely they can spare 10 Bobbies every so often – that would cover the most popular rural routes and soon spread the message.
I’m not advocating revenue-raising here, merely the actioning of protection of innocent pedestrians, drivers, horse-riders, etc, who are at risk from bikers who feel that it’s the done thing to race around the countryside without concern for others.
While the police are out cleaning the lenses of their speed cameras, they may wish to mull over this fact as well:
Speed cameras take the number plates of speeding vehicles which pass them. I recently mentioned to a lorry driver in a park-up area that his number plate had fallen off the rear of the vehicle’s trailer.
He told me that this was not the case, he just hadn’t put it on when he picked up the trailer. Apparently, many drivers don’t bother to put them in the plate-holder as they pick up trailers as it means that they cannot be identified by cameras or anyone with a casual interest later on during the journey.
If they are stopped by police, they tell them that it was there but must have fallen out, but that they have a spare in the cab.
Fine for deliberately not having a plate: £Lots! Fine for “having lost one en-route”: £MAYBE a fixed penalty, usually not, especially if the situation is rectified there and then. Also, any possibility of a penalty more than offset by fines potentially avoided by an inability to identify the vehicle.
Police: anecdotal evidence reaching “Rodney HQ” also indicates a prevalence of this problem on vehicles used to fly-tip, coming out of the West Midlands and into Shropshire – the problem that you told us recently you can’t control.
Less cameras, more inclination to stop, might help you to resolve both the above problems.
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Jeff – Where does it say anything about speed cameras? a speed camera on the side of the road can take a picture of someone going up to 180mph (well it was a few years ago) and I only know of one bike which is a hayabusa which can do alot more than that, and I dont think anyone would ride 180mph past a camera – so what valid point have you made saying that?
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No point wasting valuable police resources on the roads watching these riders as it’d be too dangerous to chase them anyway. More speed cameras unfortunately is the solution to this problem, and up the fines/points/bans given out for dangerous riding.
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If the problem really is that serious then I’m sure a sustained and highly visible police campaign, in which speeders are picked out at random and dealt with severely, would do the trick. The message would soon spread amongst the biker community.
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fixed speed camera are no good for catching speeding bikers as they don’t have visible number plates on the front of the bikes like cars do..
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What? Don’t you know what roads they use? How odd.
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I could be entirely wrong but this officer sounds as if he is about two weeks out of training School or, he is to darned lazy or lethargic to get up and do what the Police are paid to do. For those officers having the knowledge and experience (admitted though, they are few in number) there are numerous solutions to this problem, when all legal tactics have been used without result, there are those two bits of “legislation” which are the cure-all for all policing problems. First is “The Way’s and Means Act of time immemorial” and second “The Barbed Wire Act” that was second nature to old time coppers worth their salt. And if all else fails, go along and have a word with an old retired Sergeant I know in Much Wenlock, not one of the modern bright boys, he will tell you things which will have these motor cyclists pushing their machines through Wenlock let alone speed on them. Lazy coppering this, nothing more, nothing less.
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I’m always interested to see these kinds of stories in the Shropshire Star. They usually attract a fair few comments from the “holier than thou” brigade who sit on their high horses (presumably laptop in hand) sending of self important missives to the rest of us mere mortals attempting to show off their moral fortitude and intellectual capacity. Just occasionally, I feel that I need to add my own two penny’s worth to the discussion.
As a motorcyclist who regularly rides though Much Wenlock at legal speeds, I notice that most other motorcyclists also stick to the speed limit. What the root of the problem is, I suspect, that motorcycle engines rev higher than car engines so they sound faster than they actually are. People then think that motorcyclists are a menace whereas its the car driver that is the real, prevelant danger on the UKs roads.
I don’t deny that bikers use the roads in the area. They have a legal right to do so. I suspect some also enjoy the twisty road and perhaps are a little exuberant between villages but most do slow down for sign posted limits. The proportion that don’t is probably equivalent to the number of car drivers that speed through the villages. Most people reading this will be car drivers and are happy to slag off bikers perhaps because they think it will distract attention from their own poor driving.
Readers of this comment may also be interested to know that I first rode the road through Wenlock to Craven Arms and on towards Wales in the company of police motorcyclists who also enjoy the delights that it has to offer to a good rider.
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Well said Andy.
As a motorcyclist, walker,cyclist and car driver I often hear comments from other walkers complaining about speeding bikers in villages but usually it is a passing motorcycle in first or second gear certainly doing less than 35mph.
Outside of villages motorcycles have the ability to accelerate far faster than cars giving them the ability to overtake virtually anywhere and this upsets some motorists even though the car driver was driving well below the speed limit.
But one thing to bear in mind is how many people other than bikers are injured by accidents involving motorcycles, extremely few. To be hit by a bike travelling at highly illegal speed is less damaging than being hit by a car at thirty mph let alone a lorry.
As for the comment that motorcyclists are using the roads for racing to the coast that is a ridiculous thing to say. If they were racing they would be doing in excess of 150 mph on the short straight sections between bends.
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The officer is not fresh out of training or lazy it might burst a few of the bubbles inflated by other contributors but get this..he is being honest.
Although the Shropshire Star might relish the idea of a Hero Cop Killed Operating Speed Trap headline but nobody else will.
Employers, and that includes the police,have a duty of care towards their staff and standing in the road trying to stop a Kawasaki ZX10 travelling at 120 is not really going to win any prizes under Health & Safety legislation.Would you want to try standing on a dual carriageway stopping traffic at 70, just think of doing the same on a B road but the object vehicle travelling almost twice as fast. When you double your speed you quadruple your stopping distance.
There are ways of considerably reducing the speed and frequency of speeding motorcyles but the public, especially the bikers may not like them.
In finishing off, here’s a thought for all the holier than thou brigade who sit in judgement, the next time you drive down the road and spot the police carrying out speed enforcement work will you be the one busily flashing your headlamps at oncoming traffic warning them? Let he who hath not sinned cast the first stone.
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Yet again, we bikers seem to be the whipping boys! If we’re “racing”, and “riding dangerously” how come it’s the chavs in their souped-up tin boxes that have most of the accidents? They get to drive around like idiots whilst smoking and drinking behind the wheel, and the Police don’t care. The Police don’t care that frequently these drivers throw their fag-ends out the window (littering the Queens Highway – criminal offence), smoke behind the wheel (Driving Without Due Care – another criminal offence), and yet no prosecutions take place. Yet a motorcycle, travelling within the posted speed limits, will be targeted by the Police because they THINK(?) the bike is travelling quickly because it makes slightly more noise. The simple fact is that motorcycle engines do what it says on the tin; produce a healthy amount of power because they breathe properly. Proper breathing means that more air flows, the engine has a higher RPM, and thus is louder than the restricted pea-shooters on cars. A tiny bit of knowledge goes a long way; if you want to spend your days standing on the side of the road in fluorescent clothes, fair enough; but don’t waste our time because you don’t have any ability to estimate the speed of a vehicle if it makes a noise you don’t like. We pay Road Fund Licence and insurance, we obsessively clean & fettle our bikes, we’re just as entitled to use the Queens Highway as any other vehicle, free of interference and bias. To target only motorcycles is a kind of intolerance, that would not be allowed if it was, for example, racially motivated. Please, give us a fair chance. We break no more laws than anyone else, but we’re expected to hang our heads in shame when pulled over just for being on a motorcycle
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How did this end up being a discussion about why motorbike engines are louder than car engines?
To all you law-abiding bikers who took the time to reply to let everyone know you’re a safe rider: good for you.
Now how about evangelising your good practise amongst the biking minority who do ride dangerously quickly? I think those are the ones being discussed here.
By the way – when in traffic, I pull to the left to allow bikers past. Non-bikers don’t automatically dislike bikes, so let’s have a little less of this “us and them”!
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There is a very easy and inexpensive way to deal with the errant motorists, play them at their own game.Synchronise two unmarked police vehicles with video recording equipment in.When vehicle A passes the first police vehicle it effectively starts the clock and makes a visual record of it, when it passses the second which can be 10 miles or even 50 miles away the clock stops, it is fairly easy to identify the shortest possible route between two points, let the motorist then explain how they’ve covered 48.34 miles in 23 minutes 6 seconds.It’s not rocket science.
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I agree with all the comments so far advocating motorcycling.
Many, many bikers operate at speeds and (much more importantly) levels of awareness that are utterly alien to your average Picasso driver. I know this for a fact. Moreover, modern sports bikes have a capability in the handling department that most riders cannot even scratch the surface of. Many bikes have bespoke suspension and braking components manufactured by respected specialists such as WP / Ohlins / Brembo / AP etc that are – pretty much – identical to those used in top flight racing.
Basically, a modern bike is designed to do high speed and has the equipment to cope. It is fit for purpose. As are the riders, who must pass a far more stringent test before being permitted to ride a bike capable of 0-60 in 2.5 seconds and 0-100 in 5.5 seconds. Again, I know this.
And yet. At the expense of improved road engineering, improved road surfacing, and a more involved DSA test for car drivers all we see are more speed traps and lower speed limits and more roadside furniture for bikers to hit when they lose control on a poorly surfaced piece of tarmac.
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Apprently it’s even simpler than that – due to the yellow streaked bosses / Health and safety bods / ambulance chasing lawyers (delete as appropriate) the police aren’t allowed to go after speeding motorcyclists because if the bikers crash and hurt themselves – the police are at fault and get sued etc ….
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Why not just carry out a simple time over distance exercise. after all that’s what the bikers are doing.
Get a couple of patrol cars with videos and one can record what time they leave the town and the other as they arrive at the force boundary,it’ll be up to the bikers then to explain how they’ve got there so quickly, anything with an average speed of say over 70mph will get a ticket.
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@winja: “Basically, a modern bike is designed to do high speed and has the equipment to cope”
That’s not the issue though. Many modern road users aren’t designed to cope with the bikes’ high speeds. They’re not expecting another vehicle to be on top of them in the blink of an eye. That’s when bad accidents happen, which are usually worse for the rider.
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Irrespective of how good modern Motorcycles are, and irrespective of how good the riders may be (compared to the average “picasso” driver – Winja # 15)…..
The fact is this article is all about “speed” and also about “overall” or “average speed” evidenced by the purchase of timed parking tickets thus showing how long it is taking riders to go from two distant points such as Dudley and Aberystwyth, as reported.
Now – If we are to believe this article -then the police MUST have evidence that bikers are not only exceeding the speed limit, but ALSO by a WIDE margin. So HOW do they know that?
It would be interesting to know exactly how long it took some riders to get from Dudley to Aberystwyth ! – and of course tell us exactly how far it is –
(we can do the neccessary maths thereafter thanks!)
I do agree with winja #15 to some extent. I’m afraid my experience of the “picasso” driver isn’t good either.
These “types of vehicles” (people carriers) do seem to attract the **”unispeeder” type of driver !
Definition:
Unispeeder = someone who drives at much the same speed overall, usually slightly over 40 Mph, irrespective of speed limits, with little attention or awareness to what’s going on around.
However also -I find many motorcyclists lacking in driving skill also:
such as
* following FAR too close
* Queue hopping, – i.e overtaking in, and into close spaces, and even into blind bends – relying on the fact that the very low width of a bike can compensate if something does appear in the opposite direction!
* and strangely – following a vehicle too close – and NOT overtaking when there is a clear option to do so – BEARING IN MIND the benefit of outstanding accelration the bike invariably has ! – and this happens a lot!
(Maybe its becuase if you are following too close – your line of vision is restricted thus preventing you from planning and executing an overtaking manoevre im a timely, and safe manner
I find it strange in theses cases – when the biker has all the means “to get a move on” – but just sits there in the middle of the fray! .. Why ?
* Riding far too close to the centre line. (or too far away from the kerb) – I’ve wondered – are bikers taught to do this?
It’s VERY frustrating when (Yes it does happen!) when a car driver wishes to overtake a biker -and they won’t move over – and YES – you then get the two fingered salute!
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Jake’s hit the nail on the head.
It’s usually the lowest common denominator driver/motorist/rider etc that causes the accident but usually the more experienced/better, motorist/rider that gets thick worse of it and usually the blame because they weren’t dawdling along at 40MPH.
Better driver training and awareness is needed amongst ALL types of road user.
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Jake,
I think that the main problem with modern road users, is that many of them don’t expect any vehicle to approach them from behind at any speed, judging by the lack of attenion, mirror use and indicators that I see.
Many seem happy to tootle along at 40MPH oblivious to what’s going on around them because they believe that they are “safe” at such a low speed.
That’s where the problem is, just as much as the approach speed of another vehicle.
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The councillor made the comments of racing to Wales not the Police. (So lets not bash the cops)
It is the community complain to the police as they fear lives will be lost, and rightly so.
There are no fixed cameras in this area.
These days all enforcement is generally by hand held lasers and following by specialized police vehicles.
Health & Safety does play a bit part and if you know the roads concerned, the only safe-ish areas are on the straights which allows speeding offender to see officers in good time and slow up.
It states the educational approach has been taken and being ignored.
This is not just a problem for Police it is also a problem for the fire sercice / ambulance (land and air) / loacal community re-noise and farmer who do not like moving machinery on the roads on sundays for the fear of a collision.
Each rider, rides as an indivual or in a small group but the volume of riders through out the whole of the day adds up and becomes continous as most of them come back the same route.
All drivers and riders need to think “what is around the corner” The current tv safety advert says it all.
Just show a little respect for each other.
7 deaths is too many, too many loved ones are now grieving.
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