Letter: Alcohol rules too strict
Wednesday 16th September 2009, 9:12AM BST.
Letter: Yet again I have witnessed logic turned on its head by an over-zealous member of staff at a well known shopping outlet – this time Asda in Telford Town Centre.
We all know that many shops selling alcohol these days have a challenge policy should the purchaser be fortunate enough to look under 25 years of age (the legal age actually being 18 to purchase). I actually agree with this policy most sincerely.
As long as the purchaser provides adequate identification, then all well and good. However, I don’t see it as very fair at all in the following scenario:
Three friends are stood in front of me at the self-service counter. The girl (all three are clearly in my opinion over the age of 18 at least) is the one attempting to purchase, among other things alcohol, when the scanner flashes up the need for an identity check.
A member of staff states that all three must have adequate identification in order to make the purchase. No ifs or buts, that’s the rules.
One of the gents did not have any ID at all, which resulted in the entire shopping being left at the store, unpurchased, in protest.
I couldn’t help suggesting that the policy was at best a little illogical and clearly only created very bad feeling when applied in such a situation. She said: “That is the rules. We don’t want an on- the-spot fine”.
I also suggested that if I happened to be shopping with my children and I wished to purchase alcohol, would I be subjected to similar embarrassment if I didn’t happen to have their birth certificates or passports with me at the time?
She floundered a little and then said “That is different” and walked away.
Surely it is responsible and legal to ensure that the purchaser conforms with the policy, but to extend it to any friend, family or associate who happens to around them at the time is ridiculous.
I’d love to hear Asda’s reply.
Name and address supplied
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I encountered a similar problem in Bridgnorth when my 16 year old daughter attempted to buy a dvd with a 15 certificate as a present for her dad. The shop assistant refused to serve her as she had no id. She came out of the shop to find me and so I attempted to purchase the dvd on her behalf. I was met with the same response. Because it was my daughter who wished to purchase the dvd and had no id on her, the shop assistant would not let me purchase it, even though I am clearly well over 15! It was resolved only when I insisted on seeing the shop manager and he sold the dvd to me.
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Fair play to them for leaving all of their shopping. I guess she could also just have come back 5 minutes later on her own.
Anyway, its also a shame ASDA dont police the illegal smoking right outside their front door so well. Or at least monitor the people that use the basket only aisles with overflowing shopping trolleys!
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I saw a similar thing in Tescos. Group of people, only one paying for the alcohol but silly checkout woman trying to I.D all of them. I have no idea where this has stemmed from and wondered if they would do the same to an adult who had children with them. I think it has all got a little bit out of hand, I find I frequently get I.D’d for the lottery and I am 25 and married!! I’d love to know where the alcohol policy came from though!
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i would of do the same, left the shopping, policy is wrong should be for who was buying the alcohol not all 3, where as the smokers outside every exit of the centre, the council should knock down all the smokers shelters because thats only place they don’t smoke, see this every day
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im 17 and my 38 year old mum got refused to be served without id to buy alcohol even though shes clearly over 18…since when has anyone had to look 25 to be 18….crazy!!
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i had a similar encounted when i was doing my weekly shopping and wnted to purchase a bottle of wine along with the trolly full of groceries. i had my 16 year old sister with me as she was staying at my house at the time. they tried to refuse me as my sister did not have any ID. i argued the point that that is rediculous and would they be asking the person standing behind me for ID as they had toddler with them and were purchasing alcohol. I was told that was different!!! when i kicked up a stink about discriminating against me to the supervisor and produced my personal licence card stating i knew full well what the licencing law was did they then sell me the wine along with the rest of my shopping. I refused to back down! this was also in the town centre asda. I agree with what quinny said about the smoking in the entrance as it annoys me that i walk out of the shop with my 8 week old baby into cloud of smoke!!!
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I am the one who posted my thoughts on this (in my opininon) faux pas to the Shropshire Star, who kindly printed my exasperations. My boys are rather old looking 14 year olds. If they happen to be with me when I ‘attempt’ to buy a bottle of plonk, what would happen? I agree with Jo. Where did this completely over-the-top approach come from?
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It is, for this ridiculously adhered to policy that I no longer shop in Tesco. At a time when I was indisposed and unable to leave the house my wife went to Tesco on her mobility scooter along with our 17 year old daughter walking aside her. My daughter went along too because there are times when my wife cannot manage the steep curbs that T&WC seem to find the need to put everywhere. My wife wanted to buy a bottle of Pernod, however was told by the incredibly rude young girl on the tills that unless my daughter could also provide means of ID then my wife (48 yrs old) would NOT be permitted to buy the alcohol! Despite her trying to explain the need for some assistance with her scooter, the girl would not budge and even when my wife pointed out that most weekday shoppers came in with their children, and many buy either bottles of wine or mulitpacks of beer for hubby, not one of THEM were asked for ID and yet she was. Tesco refused to comment on that, and again refused to let my wife buy the bottle. Needless to say, I and my family have boycotted Tesco and now shop elsewhere (with friendlier and more helpful staff too!)
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Yes Andrew, I certainly understand your question/concern, I do…
However, like so many things in this society of ours, the crux of the problem is the initial law/rule, how its been implemented from Government & by individual business’s… Do ya think ?
Sorry, but this is a very touchy subject that needs our Government Leaders to review & probably it should be asap…(good luck with that one) !!
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My wife, I and my 13 year old step-daughter had the same problem in Whitby whilst on holiday.
We had about 10 things, loo roll, bread, milk, butter and some alcohol. But, despite my wife and I being over 40, they asked my step-daughter for ID as they said they had no evidence we had not purchased the alcohol for her!
A debate followed about the policy, and eventually (after me sending the others out of the shop) was I allowed to buy my shopping…..
Needless to say I think the policy is madness!
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This stemmed from the idiot adults who thinks it’s OK to buy alcohol and tobacco for under age kids – they need to check that the party who is purchasing the stuff is not inclined to pass it onto an underage member of the public and this means that anybody who is on the cusp of looking as if they need ID also needs to ensure their party have ID otherwise the stores are at risk of fines for knowingly supplying the items to an adult who is passing onto a minor. As mentioned the best thing to do is for the ‘young’ adult to purchase it whilst mates wait outside and thus only one member of the party needs ID, doesn’t solve the intention of the regulation, does get the store off the hook.
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I regularly get questioned when buying alcohol and I’m 38 !!!! Last one was marks and spencers buying bucks fizz. Hardly going to get drunk on that!!!
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This happened to me in Tesco’s in High Wycombe. I was with a group of people, I’m 25 and look the youngest (the other ages are 28, 30, 32, 32… I may have a young looking face but not a 17 year old’s face!) .. And we were all buying alcohol. The cashier said he had to ID everyone and gave his reason for this that he was “worried for the young lady” (me). So i showed him my ID and he still made everyone else show him their ID. I was a bit baffled about this! Because in our case there was no minor with us who anyone else could have been passing alcohol onto.
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The reason for this policy is based firmly in the law, it is illegal to sell alcohol to anyone under the age of 18. This also includes by proxy sales where an adult buys a product then passes it on to someone under the legal age. Therefore a cashier has a legal obligation to refuse a sale to anyone where there is a possibility the age restricted product will be passed on to those under age. So a cashier would be well within their rights to refuse the sales stated above. In response to Amy as an NCPLH personal licence holder you should know better. It is reasonable to assume that an adult may pass alcohol onto to a teenager but it is not reasonable to assume it will be passed on to a toddler hence why they had no intention of refusing the next family. May I also remind you under the licensing laws, they are allowed to refuse the sale of any product to anyone at any time and don’t need to give a reason. This policy may seem ridiculous, but as stated earlier it is one firmly rooted in law and as such checked by trading standards that send in middle aged women with teenagers to buy alcohol to check the sale is refused. So may I congratulate all the cashiers mentioned here for withholding the law.
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Am I right in thinking that it is legal to let your teenagers drink alcohol at home (supervised during a meal of course) but not legal to buy alcohol in a store in case you may be giving it to them?
How much more crazy can this country get????
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Well, PC Brigade gone mad.
If I were to be subjected to that kind of customer service, I would do what the people in the original letter did and leave all my shopping at the till. Tell them that they had lost not just a customer but all my freinds and families custom and buy elsewhere.
Surely the shops wouldn’t last long if everyone did this.
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What about adults in ‘child friendly’ pubs with their kids ? Can they only buy non-alcoholic drinks at the bar ?
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it happened to us in tesco wellington, i was not wearing my glasses so could not read label properly so my daughter who is 16 held the bottle and read label, my wife who is a school teacher, i am an engineer, my daughter is joining the forces as an officer, we left over £100 worth of shopping at the till because we felt embarresed,i am a responsibble parent,at the till they said i could have been buying alchol for my daugher,we just walked out enraged.
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Ian, your comment that this is firmly based in the law is just an example of the sort of over-zealous interpretation that leads to this sort of nonsense in the first place.
Yes, it is illegal for an adult to buy alcohol on behalf of an underage person, but it is also the case that it is commonplace for families to shop together, including teenagers with adults. As part of that the adults will legitimately want to buy alcohol in many cases.
To suggest that the staff have acted responsibly ans sensibly in the examples cited, rather than as robotic, indiscriminate oafs is simply to encourage a complete abdication of common sense – you should be ashamed of yourself!
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I have had this SOOO Many times! Most people are actually able to buy alcohol when they are under age! But no when legal! I was with my cousin in Bridlington, She is (was 18 now 19) and was buying a bottle of wine on my behalf (i am 20) and didnt actually take my ID As i never get questioned in Shrewsbury! Althought it was my cousin who was actually handed over the money, with her ID doing it legally and me giving all the info about myself she needed off the top of my head she still refused to serve me! Ever since that day i have taken my ID with me everywhere! And still to this day that was the only place who asked for ID! I think its terrible they ask all of you in a group when only one person is actually handing over the money. Its up to them if they want to hand it over to under age kids cause that is actually against the law! The shop have sold it to the right ages person!!!
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it just shows our society is BROKEN, we need to ban alchohol and bring back hanging to keep the kids off the streets, it all the single mums they cannot look after the little yobs proper so they are always on the streets causing bother, we need national service to sort them out with discipline and to get out of the EU NOW, go save the Queen
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Peter. It may seem overzealous but it is very difficult for the cashier to judge each situation. In the situation stated in the original letter it was crystal clear the alcohol was for all concerned, as they couldn’t all prove their age, it was right to refuse them. When families are shopping together common sense has to be used, so for instance if a family are buying their shopping and a bottle of wine it is reasonable to assume the alcohol is for the adults, if the family has teenage children and alcopops, cheap fizzy wine or the such is put on the conveyor belt then it is reasonable to assume that the alcohol is for the teenager and as such by law has to be refused. This does seem stupid. But it is the law as it currently stands. Trading standards are testing it is being upheld by sending in women with teenagers who look 17-18 but are in fact 15-16 to buy alcohol to check we refuse by proxy sales, if we fail the consequences are a £5000 fine for the cashier and the store licence holder, possible prison sentence and/or licence of the store being revoked. So it is not an overzealous interpretation, it is cold hard fact this is the case. So please understand the cashiers are just upholding the law. If any of you think this is stupid then it is the law to blame not the cashier.
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@ comment number 2, since when has it been illegal to smoke outside Asda ??
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Ian. Your comment condemns you, just like it would condemn many of the cashiers you represent. What utter rubbish that it is ‘crystal clear that the alcohol was for all concerned’ from the original letter. Complete supposition. To stand you factually correct, the one chap stated to the member of staff that he didn’t even know the girl! He was with his friend (who did know her) and they had bumped into her. His friend was simply chatting with her whilst on their dinner break. Crystal clear is it?
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Ian,
The law cannot be held to blame when an adult, in their 30s or 40s, visits a supermarket with a teenager, and is refused a perfectly legal purchase because the cashier is unable to apply a perfectly simple rule of common sense.
In the case described in the letter, the only responsibility of the supermarket is to ensure that the person to whom the alcohol is being sold is of the correct age. What happens to the alcohol thereafter is irrelevant. It is not illegal for an under 18 to drink alcohol in their own home or elsewhere in a private place. So in this instance the supermarket has added its own addendum to the law it seems.
This is exactly the same sort of hysterical response that leads to so many reports of ‘health and safety gone mad’. It isn’t the laws that are at fault, it’s the halfwits who are too stupid to understand them…
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This has happened to me as well.
From experience if someone is buying alcohol for someone underage, they are not going to be with the underage person when they buy it. The underage people would be outside hiding around the corner and the alcohol would be brought out to them.
It might be uphelding the law, but common sense should prevail!
Tory Boy – what ARE you going on about?!!
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First of all nothing in that letter states they had just met up. Second of all we cannot and will not take their word for it, do you think everyone tells the truth? So the supermarkets have to cover their backs even at the risk of upsetting customers, because trading standards are getting more and more strict on this. A few years back they would send in a 14yr old who looked 14 and when asked how old they were they would tell the truth. Then they moved on to getting them to lie saying they were old enough, then they have moved on to test by proxy sales. So as I stated earlier, it is not supermarkets adding their own addendum. It is the law, Trading standards do check it is being upheld by sending in middle aged women with teenagers. So as stated before supermarkets are not making policies for the fun of it. They are only as a response to the law and how trading standards check on it. In answer to Ian, supermarkets are being held responsible for by proxy sales as much as they are for serving under age people. So our responsibilities do not stop at making sure the purchaser has ID, we have to make sure all parties are old enough. In fact Police and Trading standards require us to confiscate the alcohol off the people if after serving them we find it is being passed on to those underage whilst on or near the premises. So can I make this crystal clear. These policies are only here because the police and trading standards insist that they are. So may I suggest it is you who do not understand the law properly. I however do. I passed my NCPLH course with full marks and in my previous position trained people on age restricted sales. I completely agree with you it does seem stupid when children are allowed to drink alcohol in their own homes. But none the less this is how the law stands at the moment and just as importantly it is how trading standards and the police interpret it as well.
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Can i just clarify the law as it stands here. It is illegal to buy alcohol for under 18s or to purchase it and then pass it on to them. If you do this then you can get fined and face a possible criminal conviction, but you are allowed to let them drink alcohol. You can see the confusion. It is as clear as mud, and very stupid. But it is the law none the less, and the supermarkets have no choice but to uphold it following the guidelines set down by Trading Standards and The Police.
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