Fall widow refused help
Saturday 5th September 2009, 12:30PM BST.
A driver refused to help a frail 87-year-old Shropshire widow after she fell over getting off his coach because he claimed it would be breaching health and safety rules.
The driver also warned other people against helping Alzheimer’s disease sufferer Florence Jones, of Telford, in case they too fell foul of the health and safety rulebook.
The Stourbridge-based travel company, Group Travel, today defended their driver’s actions and said they did as much as they could to help.
But Mrs Jones’s horrified daughter Jennifer branded the company’s policy as “madness”.
Mrs Jones, her daughter and a friend had just arrived at Princess Diana’s ancestral home at Althorp, Northamptonshire, on a Group Travel coach.
Jennifer Jones, who is her mother’s full-time carer and lives with her in Aston Close, Apley Park, Wellington, said the pensioner was just stepping off the coach when she missed the bottom step and fell to the ground.
Running
Miss Jones, 45, said: “My friend came running back, along with staff from Althorp. They were lovely.
“The driver then came over and asked what the matter was. I asked where he’d been and he just said ‘I can’t touch her, love. It’s against health and safety. Take it up with the manager when you get back’.”
Mrs Jones was not injured and was helped up by her daughter and their friend.
The driver advised staff at the stately home not to help, claimed Miss Jones.
She said: “Please, let’s get some sense back into the country, or has it gone too far already? It’s health and safety madness.”
Managing director of Group Travel, Nick Bennett, said drivers had to comply with health and safety laws which prevented them from helping someone in case a civil suit was brought against the firm, which he said had an “excellent reputation”.
He said: “We follow every guideline that we can within our industry and we would like to do nothing more than help people down the steps.
“It’s not our fault she’s 87 and we did not know she had Alzheimer’s. The driver asked how the mother was.”
Mr Bennett added he had written to Mrs Jones after the fall.
By Jason Lavan
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One day the civil servants jobsworths responsible for much of this new Health & Safety drivel might just become the victims of their their own poisonous stupid over-regulation. I can always live in hope I suppose. Great PR too GT!!
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“The Stourbridge-based travel company, G………. said they did as much as they could to help”
What exactly did “they” do? It is perhaps not appropriate to single out this company or driver becuase there are many similar cases of refused help. H&S by side, all of us have a human duty to help injured, infirm and elderly. In the event of an accident, may it be assumed that this driver or any of his peers would refuse to be aided on the basis that aid would contravene H&S?
If the H&S aspect is true then it another government organised disassmbly procedure of a moral society already primed for self-destruct.
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Be fair to the driver, he sounds like a strict rule-follower, employed by a strict rule-following company – I’m sure that he has lived his life as a paragon of virtue, never breaking any rule or law, not even to show compassion for another human being.
What is worrying about these types of actions are not so much the stupid and idiotic rules that have been introduced in the name of health and safety, more the fact that stupid, idiotic people obey them without question or thought.
No-one can say that we didn’t ask for it though. All these years of a Labour administration micro-managing our lives down to the smallest degree means that most people are now unable to think for themselves, waiting to be punished for making a decision with reference from above, whether it be government or employer.
Thank goodness we’re not yet at the stage of madness where we could possibly hear about PCSO’s refusing to jump into water to rescue a drowning child or first response paramedics not wanting to go into a pub to save a dying woman with CPR which they can’t perform anyway because that’s also against health and safety rules.
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I think the this health and safety rule has gone too far and the world is going bonkers.
What next !!!
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would the driver sit there and watch if that was his mother if think not he should be ashamed of him self and the company too rethink your heath ans safety
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#1 What relevace is it that the lady is a widow,wy oh why does the Star have to pidgeon-hole everybody?
#2. Surely if the lady has Alzheimers where were her family or carers?
People!
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would the last on to leave england please turn off the energy saving lightbulb
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A sad reflection on our society today. Whatever this woman’s age or state of health she fell and needed help. The help should have been immediate and offered without question. Do we not look after each other anymore?
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Lets hope that the bus driver never ends up in a similar situation at some point later on in life. We live in a very cruel and selfish country
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The e-version of this story bears little resemblence to that in the paper.This version seems to make out that the lady was by herself when in fact she had her daughter with her!
What I don’t understand is what the bus driver was supposed to do as there were already people with her.
I can just see the headline story now..
Passengers have to wait 4 hrs for a replacement driver to arrive after bus driver puts his back out.
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One Word – BARMY – that’s what we’ve become !!!
Can you imagine the fire service saying ‘SORRY LOVE, CAN’T RESCUE YOUR KIDS FROM THAT BLAZING BUILDING – I MIGHT GET BURNT’, of course not !
I would sugget this has far less to do with Health & Safety legislation and more to do with the over hyped poor interpretation we are used to hearing about.
Surely common sense says – elderly lady fell on floor, pick her up, call ambulance if necessary, her well being comes first. – in the words of a well known meerkat – Simples !!
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We should be boycotting the Group Travel Company, how could their Management possibly be supporting the Driver. Are we now saying that if anyone comes across a collapsed person in the street (as I have), that we should just leave them there, how absurd is that?
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Firstly, I think it is crazy that people are having their hands tied because of H&S, however – It is unfair to compare this to the fire brigade refusing to help in a burning building – that is their job. This guys job was to drive a bus. If he did help and a)hurt himself – his employers would probably refuse sickness pay and b) the lady got further injured – being the litigous country we now are – they would sue the driver and bus company for all they could get.
Personally speaking, if I was the driver, I would have helped, but in doing so I would have disregarded the rules of my employment and would have faced the consequences – if there had been any.
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My mother in law fell at the entrance of the ‘blue blob’ or as it’s proper name is Selfridges in Birmingham.A nearby security guard who called for an ambulance asked her if she had fainted when she saw the price if the goods for sale!
This all sound like a situation blown out of proportion and I am sure that the bus driver called for aid if it was required.
It would be nice to have conductors again on buses but as public transport is so heavily subsidised IMO we get what we pay for.
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The most telling ine in the story is “drivers had to comply with health and safety laws which prevented them from helping someone in case a civil suit was brought against the firm”
If you want to find someone to blame, don’t blame the driver, don’t blame the lady concerned and don’t blame the daughter. Blame the lawyers who have created a compensation culture and blame every single person who has responded to their “no-win, no-fee” advertisements.
If we as a nation weren’t so ready to sue, then the bus company would not be terrified of allowing their drivers to help people who need it.
Greedy money-grabbing people. You know who you are, and YOU’RE to blame for tales like this.
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Be nice if we had media that isn’t afraid to take on the companies, get’ down thereknock on their door – demand under freedom of information’ their procedures if its possible – lets make something of this so that other companies notice and learn.
Companies treat H & S with such disinterest that its upto workers to implement it as they feel fit – the more “jobsworth” they are the more unsocial to other humans they are. Its cheap top-heavy management systems who write stuff down to protect themselves and not what procedures are intended for. Come on Star – get your reporters knocking on the doors – or the owners home door if they get nothing from the company. Star Come on!
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The only thing to be said about this incident is;
It was a fellow human being in trouble do you stand and watch? saying ” I was only following orders” or do you help?
The first answer indicates that you are uncaring, robotic and unable to think for yourself. The second answer shows that you are a fully paid up member of the human race.
Its down to the individual to decide but I know which kind of person I would rather be.
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the bus company should make sure that the steo and bus was in good repair.
the health and safety act is there to protect workers and those effected by work activities,
if the step was found to be faulty then the company may find that they are in controvention of section 3 of the health and safety at work ect act 1974. what the bus driver was protecting himself from was section 2 of the same act.
if you take h&s seriously then these silly stories would never have to be published.
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‘It’s not our fault she’s 87 and we did not know she had Alzheimer’s’
Is Mr. Bennett going to start stamping his feet and throwing his toys out because he has been openly identified as someone more concerned with his profit margin than helping an disadvantaged elderly person out? Better hope none of your older relatives run into someone like you in an accident Mr. Bennett!
Health and Safety regulations have not outlawed common decency and consideration so do not quote that drivel as an excuse. And as a qualified First Aider I can assure you that it is not against regulations to pick a person up when they’ve fell down if it safe for their welfare to do so.
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To all those, seeking to blame this upon the Government, or civil servants, perhaps you could point me in the direction of some health and safety legislation which would actually have prevented this unfortunate lady from receiving help? Can you specify one rule, either governmental or local, which would have got anyone giving aid into trouble?
You see I doubt if you can. Almost all of the hype surrounding health and safety is nonsense, often whipped up by our low quality tabloid newspapers as part of a manufactured anti-EU diatribe.
Couple that propaganda with an ability somehow inherent in the British people to be as officious as possible at times, and you can see that the cause of this sort of incident lies in our own collective willingness to be led by the nose by rumour and exaggeration, rather than in any genuine official obstacle.
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I tried to help someone a few months back who had fallen on the pavement outside my home. This ladies daughter was also there, she told me to leave them alone in a very rude manner. I wish i hadn’t bothered.
It does sound like this situation has been blown out of proportion and that there were plenty of people to help this old lady. The story would be very different if the driver had helped and caused the woman some more injuries.
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Without condoning the actions of the driver
this is not a health and safety issue. It is a requirement of many commercial insurance policies. Insureres seek to reduce risk and do so by imposing conditions on policies preventing drivers such as this assisting.
We see similar for street markets fairs hanging baskets. Any recent story of a similar nature.
There have been instances of well meaning people assisting others and making it worse. They have then rightly been held to account. Remember the motorcycle accident at which a crowd voted if the riders helmet should be taken on or off? Thankfully paramedics arrived before democracy destroyed a life.
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[ And as a qualified First Aider I can assure you that it is not against regulations to pick a person up when they’ve fell down if it safe for their welfare to do so]
You are quite wrong there and it is not advisable for the first aider to put themselves into a situation of potential back strain to themselves or other injuries.
Ambulance staff are specifically trained in this area and the injured person should be kept warm and treated for shock, bleeding, breathing difficulties or at worst given resusitation.
The first aider should not put themselves in danger and seek to get injured person out of danger without endangering themselves by asking for assistance to warn traffic for example.
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Come Shropshire Star – lets have some careing sharing campaigning journalism – knock on the company doors, if they wont help knock on the owners doors and hassle them. If their employees act anti-socially their employers have some responsibility as well. How about asking for the work procedures and health and safety procedures from the company to show just who is responsible and that the employee was acting (or not) within their operating procedures. Play thier own game. Come on Star Journos – get outta the warm chairs.
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Eva Land
And your first aid qualification would be?
I said safe to do so, for example to avoid death!
So you’d leave someone lying in the muiddle of the road would you?
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There’s me thinking that the new CPC exam for coach drivers along with health & safety covered
Passenger comfort and safety, understanding the needs of people with disabilities, dealing with children and controlling difficult situations and conflicts.
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