Tax hike costs drivers dearly
Tuesday 1st September 2009, 11:48AM BST.
Motorists across Shropshire and mid Wales were today hit with another petrol price rise as a Government 2.3p-a-litre fuel tax increase was introduced across county forecourts.
The move is unpopular with motoring associations and has prompted supermarket chain Morrisons to freeze the price of its fuel for the rest of the week.
Across the region today many garages changed their prices to reflect the increase, with others likely to follow suit by tonight or later this week. Average petrol prices are expected to rise to about 107p a litre. But others have vowed to try and keep prices as low as possible.
Andrew Faulks from Stans Superstore in St Martins, near Oswestry, was today charging 102.9p per litre for diesel and petrol.
He said: “We are trying to remain one of the cheapest around and we will try to hold that price.”
John Walker at WR Davies in Welshpool, said he was keeping his fuel prices down with petrol currently selling at 106p and diesel at 105p.
“We’ve been criticised by some for the higher price of unleaded but it’s costing me more and I’ve been losing money on it for the last few months,” he said.
However, most independent and chain petrol stations in Shropshire hiked their prices today. Tony Haller, owner of Coton Service Station, near Whitchurch, said: “This morning we’re charging 107.9 pence per litre for both fuels.”
Motoring groups had tried to press the Government to delay bringing in the rise – the third in nine months.
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Totally artificial price hike imposed by a completely out of touch administration in Westminster. And we all accept it.
If anyone believes that this taxation is going to go into public transport then you are very much mistaken.
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It’s not all bad news. Red Diesel is still about 50p per litre and you don’t need to convert your car to run on it – as long as its a diesel.
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this is Labours faultm the commies would have us all go by bus like peasants, i say down with clown brown, hang them all in the street the lefty loonie liberal labour losers must be taken out NOW and taxes must be slashed, vote blue go green, we will cut your taxes espcially on cars
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lucyw , let me guess your occupation? Farmer by any chance?
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get the lefty labour out now cut our taxes
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Why does Lucy W keep banging on about using red diesel when it’s common knowledge it’s illegal to use it in a car??
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If we are supposed to believe (what a laugh) Clown and his gang, they have no intention of raising taxes or making cuts in services. Well the cuts in services are already happening in almost every public service department and this is the most blatant tax rise that one can think of – we should all stand by for a few more, like the re-imposition of the 17 1/2% “purchase tax” rate in January.
Lies and deceit oozes from this Westminster lot in everything that they say and do.
Lucy, yes, all very well but if the Revenue catch you using it (and they have frequent road checks in company with both Police and Trading standards), woe betide you. You will pay far more than 50p a litre and run the risk of losing your car into the bargain. I will stand corrected but I think red diesel is for use in agricultural vehicles only.
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Your point is well taken, Jim.
Greens are demanding that this necessary taxation DOES go into greener transport, and that the thrust of UK transport policy is radically altered away from endless road-building and airport expansion towards an integrated, clean, safe, reliable and affordable public transport system, which we can all feel proud of.
We also recognise that the extra burden put on British households by fossil fuel taxation MUST be offset at this difficult time.
That is why we want VAT to be abolished.
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Huw,
This unnecessary extra taxation will not go near so called ‘Greener’ transport, it will go towards paying off the huge debt this country has. The sooner you realise that the sooner you will hopefully stop preaching. Looking into new ways is all well and good when the money is there to do it, not when billions in debt
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Stuart, When were you last stopped by the Revenue for a Red Diesel check? Yes red diesel is for use in agricultural vehicles only.
I’m not a farmer, but you can acquire tanks very cheaply, in fact I know that where there are two 250 gallon tanks for sale.
Loads of people do it. I even knew a solicitor who did it. A slight panic when his car got written off but soon got the diesel out and punctured the tank so it couldn’t be reused.
I have a pal who works at the institute that devises all the different dies that go in the diesel. They change them every so often so you can’t claim the filters are stain due to the previous owner – just thought I’d share that one with you.
They check at the filter as this is the most convenient point.
Add up your life-time fuel costs to date and work out what you would have saved with Red Diesel. Then work out how many times you have been stopped and tested and apply the fine if indeed you have ever been tested.
Then ask yourself if crime pays?
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If Huw really thinks that any goverment is going to drop VAT in favour of ‘green’ taxes, when VAT is a tax that is fundamental to all European economies, then it really does show just how out of touch the Greens are with the real world – no electable party is going to drop VAT.
In the midst of a recession caused by the greed of global capitalism it is also unlikely that there will be major investments in public transport, nor any shift in policy to indulge the desire of environmentalist zealots to impose their chosen lifestyle upon the rest of us.
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John, I realise that this money will not go into green transport.
That’s why I am not a Labour supporter.
That’s why I am campaigning instead for a Green New Deal to turn today’s economic crisis into an opportunity to create a sustainable, affordable future for our children.
JOBS could be created by a radical switch in government investment into renewables, energy conservation, free insulation for homes, schools and hospitals, greener waste treatment and recycling, and a proper public transport system.
Combating unemployment has to be the priority for the government at the moment.
The University of Massachusetts PERI study calculated that a $US100 billion investment in green measures would create 2 million jobs.
It also calculated that the same amount would generate only 600,000 jobs if invested in the oil industry.
We need to wean ourselves off fossil fuels, so this tax IS necessary as long as it is offset in other areas and voters can see that it is creating jobs, and re-directing our economy in a sustainable and affordable direction.
In the Green Party budget response ( available online) you can examine the GP tax proposals if you are interested.
As for paying off the huge debt this country has, we would ensure that powerful corporations paid their way through international action on offshore tax havens, we would scrap the expensive and unpopular Trident system and we would bring the troops home from Iraq and Afghanistan.
I’m sorry if this is ‘preachy’. Can you give me some tips on how I can get across these ideas, which I think are important for the future of our country, in a better way?
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Huw,
Again you miss the point. The money can’t be invested in anything. This is nothing to do with being ‘Green’ this is just the 1st of many tax rises to try and pay off our huge mountain of debt. Investing in alternatives is all well and good when we have money to do so but do you honestly think doing it now would create enough jobs for all the people that would lose their’s with all the public spending cuts in other area’s that this would create? Not a chance
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Huw: Can I give you a tip? Stick to your own personal experiences and views rather than copy and paste everyone elses.
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Peter (#11), apologies, the Greens do not propose to scrap VAT completely.
Aviation is currently exempt from VAT.
We don’t think this is fair in light of the environmental damage caused by aeroplanes.
We would therefore ensure that aviation pays VAT on fuel.
After all, aviation is the fastest-growing source of the greenhouse gas emissions, which the UN will be discussing in Copenhagen in 2009.
( Sorry I forgot. Peter disputes the overwhelming scientific evidence ( http://www.shropshirestar.com/2007/04/25/climate-criticism-unfounded/ #2) ).
You mentioned European economies, Peter.
Since 2005 France has imposed a ‘Solidarity Contribution’ on all airline tickets to fund a global health fund for the developing world.
10 other countries, brought together by France, are implementing the same tax, and 29 others have announced their intention to do the same in the near future.
Strangely there is very little coverage of this innovative and progressive tax in the British press, so I suppose I will have to keep ‘preaching’ about what other European economies are REALLY doing in these threads, John.
VAT should be scrapped.
This will help small businesses and families struggling in a recession, which was not of their making.
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Huw, trying to promote an environmentally friendly approach to anything goes down like a lead balloon in a county as rural as Shropshire. A green agenda will have more impact and be more visible in the cities. Don’t try to argue with the luddites. Leave them be, they’ll follow on later.
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John, (#13) thanks for engaging.
Would you not agree that we had a mountain of debt after World War 2?
In 1948, even with this debt burden, Clement Attlee’s Labour government created the NHS, and free medical care for ALL citizens of this country, rich and poor.
You said, investing in alternatives is all well and good when we have money to do so’.
Many green alternatives are cheaper, John, and will improve our quality of life.
Look at the debate over Shrewsbury’s North West Relief Road ( http://www.shropshirestar.com/2009/07/29/we-want-answers-on-bypass-questions/ comment #1).
The road lobby want an expensive and controversial road.
Greens are proposing cheaper, human-scale alternatives more appropriate to our straitened circumstances.
You then said, ‘do you honestly think doing it now would create enough jobs for all the people that would lose their’s with all the public spending cuts in other area’s that this would create? Not a chance.’
Public spending of the sort envisaged in a Green New Deal would benefit the private sector, or those sections of it, which are looking ahead to a sustainable future, like green industrial manufacturers, the renewables industry, architects and builders who promote insulation, innovative design or Passivhaus design. Investment in public transport and expanding recycling in the waste industry would also create more jobs and stimulate the economy in our view.
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Lucy, thanks for the advice, but I’m actually rather more interested in other people’s personal experiences, particularly those people whose ideas, I think, are not adequately reported in the media.
Yesterday I read a very interesting interview with Ann Pettifor (‘Worst of slump yet to come, says economist’ Times, September 1st), one of the thinkers behind the Green New Deal and author of a prescient 2006 book called ‘The Coming First World Debt Crisis’.
She was talking about what caused the recession, (Peter spoke about ‘greed’ in #11, she spoke about ‘easy money at high interest rates’) and what she would do with the ‘huge mountain of debt’, which John spoke of in #13.
She also said that she was baffled that politicians have failed to restructure the banks and reconfigure the system in the wake of the crash. Stuart (#7) and I had a debate about the need for GLOBAL regulation for a GLOBAL crisis here ( http://www.shropshirestar.com/2009/01/23/britain-enters-recession/ ).
I talk about other people, because they have taught me something and I think that what they have taught me is worth sharing and discussing.
I won’t be sharing much that you have taught me Lucy W, but I have even learnt from you.
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Thanks for the advice, julian (#16).
Again, I disagree and think that people in Shropshire are just as concerned with environmental issues as people living in cities, if not more.
As the local food movement becomes more influential and powerful in the next few years and issues like peak oil take hold, local people working in the agricultural sector, particularly the progressive sectors which work in organic production, stand to benefit enormously from local environmental concern.
Educational levels in Shropshire are very high, awareness of these issues is widespread despite the best efforts of the ‘luddites’ as you call them, and people here enjoy a good quality of life with comparatively little crime.
Working for progressive change in a democracy is hard work, especially for parties with few funds and an ambivalent relationship with media dependent on corporate advertising.
There is no magic button. And I think it is important to join debates and encourage others to do so, too.
Online debates -like this one about drivers’ response to a tax hike- are a good way of getting vital policy issues discussed.
What do you think is the best way to campaign for what you believe in?
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Huw: If aviation is so bad, do you fly? I have been considering the pro and cons of driving and flying to Germany and on cost of a single person, flying just wins. If you put VAT on flying, then I will be driving – is that what you want?
And if you scrap VAT, how will you fund the state? One way or another, the citizen pays for it. This Green Deal is just trying to grab headlines with tx tinkering. There will just be different winners and losers depending on the Greens moral view point.
I assume that tax on alcohol and tobacco will be reduced by the Greens as it more than covers the ‘moral’ cost to the NHS? And car fuel tax will be increased to cover all the building and maintenance of our road infrastructure, something like £30 per gallon while billionaires and merchant bankers see their income tax scrapped all together as they will be paying their tax based on the ‘anti-environment’ pleasures they pursue?
I have yet to see one costing for this Green Deal – its cloud cuckoo-land and even if you did do costing, its worthless because you have even less chance than the Liberals implementing your fiscal policies so you are free to say whatever you like.
Greenies would do much better by setting an example and practice what they preach – buy a windmill and solar panels, then you might be taken seriously, and who knows people may follow if it works so well for you.
Huw, why do you deny the Hadley Centre findings? They are part of the Met Office whom you so often quote as an authority in these matters.
And finally, why is NASA so “powerful and all knowing”? In very recent human history the Catholic Church was the NASA of its day, and everyone believed the world was flat. Al Gore has been proved wrong, isn’t it time you had an open mind on this or is that teacher’s syndrome – just blindly cascade information downwards?
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Huw, the French ‘Solidarity Contribution’ goes towards financing urgent needs such the fight against HIV/AIDS.
So just how do you link the morality of a tax against flying in favour of STD medical care?
By the way, I’m flying Air France via Charles de Gaulle, Paris to Germany and not paying it because otherwise I would fly Lufthanser. That just shows how taxation changes peoples behaviour and the willingness to implement it.
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Huw,
How can alternatives be cheaper? They need developing at huge expense over a long period of time. I know you will never agree but money needs spending in other places for a long time before you have us driving round in electric cars. There is no point having these alternatives if people cant afford them, jobs are under threat in every industry in this country, a few ‘green’ jobs is a drop in the ocean in comparrison
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I see Lucy W’s mentioned Al gore again. You could set your watch by her, you really could.
for the umpteenth time, Lucy, he WAS NOT WRONG. He was criticised by a judge for a couple- and I repeat only a couple – of points in his film. this does not make the whole thing wrong.
Still, you know more than everybody else, don’t you?
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Mark, in light of your views, what do YOU think about the government’s 2.3p-a-litre fuel tax increase?
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#22 Alternative POLICIES are cheaper, John.
The road lobby want to build a NWRR, which will cost £100 million at a time when traffic in Shrewsbury town centre is falling and cash is short.
Greens here would like to see cheaper, human-centred policies introduced (as outlined in http://www.shropshirestar.com/2009/07/29/we-want-answers-on-bypass-questions/ comment #1).
You then said ‘jobs are under threat in every industry in this country, a few ‘green’ jobs is a drop in the ocean in comparrison’.
As the University of Massachusetts report (#12)makes clear, government investment will create MORE JOBS if invested in green industries.
Nobuo Tanaka, Executive Director of the International Energy Agency (ie NOT an ‘environmental zealot’, Peter (#11) spoke about the need for a green industrial revolution in an IEA report ‘New Energy Realities – WEO Calls for Global Energy Revolution Despite Economic Crisis” last year(November 12, 2008).
“We cannot let the financial and economic crisis delay the policy action that is urgently needed to ensure secure energy supplies and to curtail rising emissions of greenhouse gases.’
‘We must usher in a global energy revolution by improving energy efficiency and increasing the deployment of low-carbon energy.”
What do you think this country should be manufacturing, John?
Increasing the deployment of low-carbon energy is NOT going to happen in countries, which refuse to tax high-carbon energy.
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Mark: Al Gore was criticised for scientific inaccuracies and the High Court banned his silly film being shown in UK Primary Schools to protect the young and impressionable!!
The action was brought about via a teacher. A pity not all teachers were so astute.
He really upset lots of children telling them how Mr Polar Bear was getting his fluffy white paws all wet and dieing.
Utter rubbish! There was no evidence for this whatsoever. It was emotional brain washing that the human race which is so vulnerable to. It is human nature to believe in dooms day and associated religion. Just why this characteristic has evolved via natural selection beats me. This Global Warming is merely a pseudo religion.
Let’s turn to Al Gore’s doom-laden Oscar-winning documentary An Inconvenient Truth. First, what is the point of scaring the families of the world with tales that polar bears are heading for extinction? Last year Mitchell Taylor, of the US National Biological Service, stated that “of the 13 populations of polar bears in Canada, 11 are stable or increasing in number. They are not going extinct, or even appear to be affected at present.”
What’s your problem with Al Gore? Have you invested in his Carbon Trading Company?
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Mark, I’m glad you want people to know that Lucy W is spreading myths about climate change.
This is the thread where she first made her appearance http://www.shropshirestar.com/2008/06/19/town-gets-cycling-boost/ (#86 and #89), supporting a climate change denying supporter of the Association of British Drivers (ABD) called brian(2), who dislikes the fact that Shewsbury is investing in becoming a cycling demonstration town.
What do you think of her view that cyclists dying on the road is ‘natural selection’?
Rather than treading old ground on Al Gore, Mark, here is a conversation from a couple of years ago with Ken Adams, which explored Lucy’s arguments, which are remarkably similar to Ken’s.
http://www.shropshirestar.com/2007/10/11/writer-fails-to-note-evidence/
Do you think we should just let mis-representations like this go, Mark and Julian, or do you think people of conscience like you two can do valuable work by exposing the source of these myths in the democratic light of day?
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Lucy W you said ‘Greenies would do much better by setting an example and practice what they preach – buy a windmill and solar panels, then you might be taken seriously, and who knows people may follow if it works so well for you.’
To test out your good faith in this argument, what do you think of local actor Pete Postlethwaite’s decision to go green? http://www.shropshirestar.com/2007/05/01/movie-star-pete-going-green/
See also this article (Guardian, Friday 13th March 2009 ‘Postlethwaite lambasts climate deniers on eve of green film premiere’)
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Seeing, Huw, as the details of your party’s proposed “deal” with the UK is not forthcoming I will both enter and depart this thread with the following:
AISI, any Green activist / Green party member / Environmental campaigner reeks to high heaven of self-righteousness; do as we say, not as we do. IMVHO, Greens / Environmentalists seem obsessed with the dictat “we wish you to live your lives as we tell you to do, but only because it’s in your own best interests”. It’s all you Green lot talk about, “It’s in the best interests of both you and your children”.
I’m reminded by a C.S. Lewis quote:
“Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber barons cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.”
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Drove down to Heathrow today to pick my youngest son from a teaching trip in Uganda and popped into the welcome break services on the M40 the diesel price per litre 111p what a rip off
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winja, as you asked for the link to the Green Party’s spending plans and costings here is the GP response to the budget:
http://www.greenparty.org.uk/assets/files/reports/Budget_response_April_2009.pdf
The point which is most salient to this thread is on page 3:
‘Yes we would have the courage to raise petrol to £1.16 a litre at the pumps, rising to £1.46 in 2010.’
This would then be offset by scrapping VAT, which would ease the burden on small businesses and families struggling in a recession, which was not of their making.
For further details of the VAT proposals Google ‘caroline lucas scrapping vat’.
VAT would be introduced on aviation fuel, and aviation passenger duty would be doubled, so that environmentally damaging activities would pay their fair share.
The £10bn raised by the fuel tax would then be invested in expanding public transport to create jobs and attractive, affordable alternatives to driving.
I’m sorry if facing facts about climate change and setting out what I see as realistic, practical, forward-looking and optimistic policies makes me appear ‘self-righteous’.
I am not perfect, I am not as green as I should be and people have every right to hammer me for it.
However, I do try very hard indeed to do the right thing and I am determined to bring down my carbon emissions (I have not flown for over 2 years).
Caroline Lucas urged Green Party members to take the 10:10 pledge (just Google 10:10 pledge for details) because she recognises the undeniable truth in Lucy W’s comment which I quoted in #28.
But I think that government needs to be there to make it convenient for people to do the right thing.
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