I am sick to death of hearing about druggies and how we are paying to accomodate them. Lets hope the machine fails and gives them a good extra dose it will ensure a few less crimes. And i for one would not mind paying my NI if i was helping pay for a coffin for these morons.

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What Harold said(!)
Unbelievable.

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WHAT A JOKE… us the tax payer funding this joke yet AGAIN, People who have cancer cannot get the medications they need to survive. But the low life’s of this world can get the medication they want. This government is a complete and utter joke. Whats this world coming to ?????????? pandering to the needs of criminals. We will be paying for them to go on holidays soon !!!!!!! ooo dont we already do this.

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Vending machines dispensing drugs in prisons.
Thats the way to do it. Make life so good in prison, When they (the prisoners)get out they will go out and commit more crime to get back inside.
I was always of the opinion prison was supposed to deter people commiting further crime

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Tough on crime Tough on the causes of crime I think not as a life long Labour supporter I am amazed at how this government of idiots is wasting taxpayers money on the scum and our armed forces cannot get the kit they need because of cut backs. SHAME ON YOU JACK STRAW

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H. St. John Peasbody – I’ll try a little understanding of “their plight” when they show some understanding of the consequences of their actions. Having had my car stolen, I received not one iota of help from the authorities. No response whatsover from the police to my call; instead, I had to constantly chase them to deal with the theft; even then, very little was done and I was actually lied to on more than one occasion by the police, presumably to cover up their lack of action.

So forgive me if I feel disinclined to show tolerance to these “unfortunate people”, they showed none towards me. They made their beds now it’s up to them to lie on them and no amount of moronic PC claptrap will ever change that.

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All bar one of the comments I have read so far are utterly shameful. How about a different stance in attitude from journalists and readers alike. Shrewsbury Prison is showing itself to be at the forefront in dealing with one of the main contributory factors of acquisitive crime in this country…heroin dependence. These are our fellow human beings and if, ultimately, we want them to be useful members of society then rehabilitation in many forms, as well as punishment, is essential. Unfortunately the original article missed a golden opportunity to sing the praises of our local jail, and as for the contributions so far they display levels of ignorance that do not belong in a decent society.

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The more I think about this, the more I realise there is a mature discussion or debate that could take place, but this would need to be at a level intellectually beyond most of the contributors. If crime and causes of crime including sociology, environment, health, education, psychology, psychiatry, physiology, nature, nurture and other factors were properly considered the “let them suffer” brigade would be shown up for their ignorant stupidity. HMP Shrewsbury should be commended for such good and revolutionary work. I can tell by the quality of the majority comments that the contributors have no idea of the reality of prison life, offending behaviour or the best way to reduce crime. I write as someone who has dealt with thousands of perpetrators and victims of crime. I think I know what I’m on about. Well done HMP Shrewsbury; opportunity missed Shropshire Star…this could have been reported from a wholly different and more positive angle.

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i got burgled two months ago the scum let them go cold turkey

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When I read some of these comments, some obviously from people who have never seen a nasty criminal in their lives, I utterly despair. No wonder our country is in the state it is. The total arrogance of Simon, and I quote, “The more I think about this, the more I realise there is a mature discussion or debate that could take place, but this would need to be at a level intellectually beyond most of the contributors.”

Who on earth does he think he is, does he think that he is the only one entitled to an opinion, well, I will tell you something Simon, your self righteous, bleeding heart liberal ideas and philosophies are the cause of most of the crime that we are now obliged to suffer. Yes, I will put my professional and academic experience of crime and criminals against yours and I will wager that they will measure up to any in that particular field.
You sound like a silly young Student just after being told he has gained a 3rd in Criminology/Sociology at some second rate Uni, like Brunel.
The causes and consequences of crime are numerous, they are not decreased by the silly measures that you support.
Only when our Society grasps the nettle that an over liberal judicial and penal regime has reduced our society to one more akin to that of the proverbial clockwork orange will crime and criminality reduce. And that I am afraid would not include employing the likes of yourself in anything to do with it.
When people such as yourself start sounding off and profess to know all the answers, can I ask you the favourite question which is normally sufficient to make the “know alls” draw their horns in, “Why does a young man from a deprived background, large family, poor area, single parents, poor academically and in an environment where crime is rife go on to make a success of his life, no criminal convictions, happily married, good family and a standing that many would strive for – whilst a young man from an affluent background, small two parent family in the professional classes, money and finance no problem and with a good education at a private school, go on to make a complete hash of things, gets many criminal convictions, sentenced to many terms of imprisonment, divorced and with a dysfunctional family of his own, in fact, a common criminal who we all should despise.
Answers please Simon, make it convincing then we will acknowledge you as the expert.

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My views are based on nearly 30 years front line work dealing with both perpatrators and victims of crime. “Arrogant”…not really; informed…absolutely. Which is obviously not the case for most of the contributors I’ve read. I’m not anti-punishment and cerainly not anti-prison. If defendants and offenders need to be locked up so be it. But bear in mind the role of prison is containment, punishment and rehabilitation. The punishment and containment element involves removal from society not inhuman treatment. The rehabilitation element is multifaceted and as well as offence focussed work, will need to address factors that contribute to people becoming offenders. You can have two individuals from similar backgrounds or even the same family. That one may go on to offend and another may not is irrelevant as too many other factors need to be considered. One of the contributors has just served in Iraq and I wish him well. But do you realise many ex service personnel have developed mental health problems and dependence on drugs since serving in Iraq and Afghanistan. Some of these men – heroes all – become offenders and some end up in our prisons. I would hope that they would be treated with decency and that all efforts will be made to reintegrate them constructively back into society. I would also hope that the same support would be offered to other offenders. If society wants to reduce or even stop reoffending behaviour then it has to adopt a more mature approach to crime. HMP Shrewsbury – one of our oldest prisons – is taking just such an approach and good luck to that establishment.

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“Only when our Society grasps the nettle that an over liberal judicial and penal regime has reduced our society to one more akin to that of the proverbial clockwork orange will crime and criminality reduce”. Supposedly wise words from Stuart. But hold on a minute. We have the largest prison population this country has ever known. We lock up more people, for longer periods and for a greater number of offences now deemed imprisonable than at any time in British history. People can now even be locked up for non imprisonable offences such as being drunk and disorderly if they are already subject to an ASBO. And yet despite an increasingly punitive criminal justice system (based on facts not tabloid journalism, presumption or ignorance), recidivism rates continue. Proof, if proof is needed, that a more imaginative, practical and constructive approach is required. And despite your dismissive tones I have met and dealt with some of the most dangerous offenders there are…the “nasty criminals” you refer to. I have also dealt with those horribly damaged by some of the more extreme offending behaviour, and indeed I have been a victim of crime myself. I do not need you to acknowledge me as “an expert”. You can perceive me in any way you want to. What I am is an individual sharing opinions based on a wealth of experience – not gut feeling, misinformation, political or religious dogma or blind ignorance of the broad realities of the criminal justice system. I look forward to your next retaliatory rant.

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“I will tell you something Simon, your self righteous, bleeding heart liberal ideas and philosophies are the cause of most of the crime that we are now obliged to suffer”. Stuart, the more I read, the more I laugh. How so am I the cause…so simple, so limited, so intellectually embarassing. And you call this debate? Please add some quality to your argument. And for those who may be adding support to Stuart by the time this is published please contribute considered, thought out, and rational arguments. Anything less is frankly shocking in a supposedly educated society.

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Stuart. From your first response onwards you have resorted to insulting words and personal attack. A sign in my view, of a man with a weak or flawed argument, who is struggling to participate in a sensible and possibly even an interesting debate. I have no intention of sharing with you my professional or academic background. That you feel the need to demand that information further enhances my view that it is you not I who may feel weakened by the voice of reason. Suffice to say that I work in the broader system we are discussing. Where and in what capacity is totally irrelevant, as you do not request the same information from any other contributor. You suggest that I think everyone who disagrees with me is an uneducated halfwit…have I said such a thing? No I have not, but I do expect people to contribute to a discussion without mere kneejerk or insult.

Now if you work now, or have worked, in the criminal justice system (as opposed to those who have only read articles or listened to politicians)you will know about dynamic and static factors associated with crime and criminality. You will also know full well that heroin dependence is a major contributor in acquisitive crime. From community based services, through to police stations, courts, probation and prison, concerted efforts have been made over recent years to properly address and reduce drug dependence and all the harm it causes. Most offenders are dealt with by the summary justice of magistrate’s courts rather than the indictable justice of crown courts. As such they are likely to serve relatively short sentences if convicted and will then usually only serve half of that sentence. Or if they are merely remanded they could be released from custody at any time during the pre trial process. As such many of the issues that should be addressed in custody are not. If as I suspect you have personal experience of this system you will know full well that most offenders enter custody as unemployed, single men; often homeless, or without a stable home base, and usually with no vocational skills or completed education. Often they are also without a legitimate source of income. Add to that mix the ever present factors of mental disorder and drug dependence and you can see that the prison service is fighting an uphill battle to achieve positive change.

In local jails like Shrewsbury – as opposed to training establishments – much of the work that should be done is not because time, resources, and facilities do not allow it. As such many, if not most prisoners, are released to exactly the same situation and problems they entered jail with in the first place. And anyone who works in that system will know the sense of despair and frustratiion at seeing the same old faces time and time again. So I say make the most of a bad job. If substitute prescribing and proper follow up drug service support addresses but one issue linked to offending behaviour, we as a society have got to be better off. Finally, as you will see, I have not resorted once to a personal attack. It cheapens rather than enhances debate. I would be grateful if you could do the same.

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Stuart,

I’m disappointed, but not altogether surprised, to see that you have once again adopted the tactic of dismissing the views of others without producing any data to support your own.

This leads me to the view that you are in fact taking an emotional, dogmatic view of the situation rather than a realistic, pragmatic one.

In my first response I made it clear that we should only undertake programmes such as the one referred to in the article if they are monitored and proven to be successful.

Methadone has been prescribed to drug addicts, both within and outside prison for many years. As part of a longer-term drug rehabilitiation programme it has been shown to be an effective treatment. The ‘vending machine’ approach is simply an extension of this policy, probably introduced to save on staff costs as much as anything else. The article makes it clear that only prescribed amounts of drugs to specific inmates will be available – it’s not going to be a free-for-all.

Ask any police officer what is behind a huge amount of crime, or prison officer what is behind much of the unrest and violence in prisons, and both will tell you that it is drugs. We could all take the judgemental stance that you take, and say that it serves them all right – and it may do – but that doesn’t actually do anything to solve the problem. Our prisons are full of drug addicts, alcoholics, mentally-ill people and other inadequates. The ‘dustbin’ approach might make you and some of the other respondents to this
debate feel better, but all it actually does is to exacerbate the problem.

The comparison with Sweden is not an accurate one, since there are too many differences between their society and ours – I believe theirs is a more equal society than ours in many respects, and they have a far better-funded welfare system, as with all of the Scandinavian countries. Perhaps that is a factor in their lower crime rate – who knows?

There are many jobs in prisons other than prison officers and governors. I wasn’t in either of these jobs, but I still know people in both jobs and I can tell you they agree with my views rather than yours.

As for your assertion that prison is a ‘soft touch’, if that is really the case, rather than an urban myth, why is the suicide rate in our prisons so high?

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Peter,
So many silly points made – so little inclination on my part to argue with you, I am really aware of what the views of both Police and Prison Officers are, they certainly would agree that drugs are at the back of many of our problems – that I would suggest is perfectly obvious to most people. We don’t need to ask Police/Prison staff.
What data do you wish to consider, I made no point about data whatsoever. The wringing hand, left wing liberals who would see the anarchic penal and judicial system made even more liberal and anarchic resort to the familiar tactics – criticise in the most intemperate language those who differ with you to try and justify your position. You will notice that nowhere have I made one comment, indeed I have not mentioned the word “methadone” and, in principle I would not disagree with this approach in Prison. You yourself conjure up comments that I have not made. Similarly I have not uttered the word “dustbin”.
I also know every single job likely to be performed in HMPs from the Medical Staff, the Chaplaincy, the Social Welfare staff to the various grades of Governor, Chief Officer, Principal Officer, Senior Officer, Officer, Works Officers, Cooks and Bakers and candlestick makers. You can tell me nothing about Police or Prisons Peter from the lowest staff to the highest. You were possibly a clerk on the staff of the Prison Admin.
As for Sweden, the favourite cry of the liberal apologists is our prison population comparison (as Simon does) with European Countries, when it is pointed out how false this comparison is, we then get the excuse that our society is different to that of Sweden. Yes, I know it is I lived there for 18 months. Simon made the comparison with other countries not me. If you don’t want to be shown how silly this comparison is, don’t make it yourselves because it can be shot down in flames.
You similarly distort the context in which I said “soft touch”. This was said with regard to dealing with offenders NOT with regard to Prison “regimes”. Though it could well apply.
The Prison population is somewhere near (it fluctuates daily) 80,000, the number of suicides, taking into account that number and also the fact that Prison of necessity (in the abscence of other suitable places) is the only place where they can be held, it not high by any manner of means. As I read it and I will stand corrected, you had no personal interface with prisoners, therefore your experience is limited to seeing them about the place.
If you had set foot in HMPs Wormwood Scrubs, Wandsworth and similar rather than “small local prisons”, you would have a better understanding, coupled of course with a smidgin of psychology/psychiatry why prisoners commit suicide. These unfortunates have been a product of out prisons since they were first used as a means of confinement punishment etc. etc etc.
Only when we build more prisons and the court award more meaningful sentences, with a regime in Prisons that is positive rather than the idiotic regimes that we have at present will offending reduce. We have had years (since 1948) of a steadily declining ordered and meaningful regime in our prisons, sentences have declined in length with hardened criminals released to offend again and again and those responsible for this are those like you who have had little experience of the social consequences of crime and criminals.
The country on the whole is screaming out for the laissez faire, anarchic system to end meaningful punishments and sentences brought in.

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Peter, for my pains, for some time I was an AG II and I was the youngest ever to do the “Country House Test” ( does that convey anything to you). I will say no more and say this much, merely to convey the fact that I have a reasonable knowledge of what I am talking about and if you doubt that and you know something also, you will know what to ask me in order to be convinced of what I was.
Having said more than I intended, I don’t have the arrogant notion that my views are correct and everyone else is wrong, uneducated and are idiots. What I do say is this, the liberal approach has failed and the results are there for us all to see. It would take a book to spell it out but my views would be instantly recognisable and acceptable to the greater majority of Police and Prison Officers and those who are genuinly concerned over our Judicial and Penal system, the pity is, their own views are not heard because PC will not allow them to voice them and to do so will damn their careers.
I am not Simon so don’t be silly, of course I know what a “local” Prison was/is. I was under the impression that you had served in a “small” local Prison, like Shrewsbury etc I apologise, it was a bit bigger “local prison”, Birmingham of which I could tell you much.
What on earth do cap peaks have to do with the treatment of offenders, it seems to me that you are seriously deriding , our ex service people, I really don’t know how a cap peak can alter the disposition of anyone. Why would they wish to make themselves look “harder”, I would have thought ex servicemen/women would have an almost inbred sense of leadership about them that came to the fore naturally in prison without them having to alter their appearance in order to gain it.
I have said enough, what with peaked caps and an argument about “local” prisons, it is getting to silly for words. That is unless you want to ask me some questions to verify what scant information I have given you.

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