Letter: Teaching is no easy life
Friday 19th June 2009, 7:30AM BST.
LETTER: As a teacher in his second year of teaching it always intrigues me when people comment on teachers’ pay, teachers’ holidays and the fact that they have an “easy job working 9.00am until 3.30pm every day”.
In G Thomas’s letter, (June 6) there were a number of points raised that I wish to respond to.
It was stated that a recen-tly qualified teacher would receive about £600 a week. This statement is incorrect.
A teacher in their first year of the profession, would receive a yearly wage of £20,620, if teaching outside of London, which works out to just under £400 a week.
It would take a teacher six years, or more, to reach the £600 a week stated. (See the TES website www.tes.co.uk)
Can I also reassure G Thomas that the vast majority of teachers do not spend all of their holidays “sitting at home”. During the last half-term I spent two days in school and also used time over the break to plan and prepare for the final term.
I spent a week in school over Easter, a number of days over Christmas and two weeks of the previous summer holiday in school too. I am not alone doing this.
My typical week involves arriving at school at 7.45am and leaving at 5.30pm. I work at home for on average an hour-and-a-half every night. I have to prepare work on a Sunday for the following week. This roughly totals 55 hours a week.
Teachers aren’t in the job for the money, the holidays or for the 9am until 3pm.
As for the comparison to MPs – I can’t afford my own house or garden, let alone get expenses for my moat.
P Evason
Wellington
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Well said! I’m fed up of hearing the same comments regarding Teachers’ pay, holidays and the overall ‘easy’ job that they have. My girlfriend is in her second year of teaching; working a huge amount of hours each week. She leaves the house at 7am each morning, not returning until after 6pm each the evening. Also, similar to P. Evason, she works at home for a few hours in the evening and always has work to prepare on a Sunday for the following Monday. Not to mention the work she has to do during the ‘holidays’.
Teaching is not an easy ride. If you were to take the yearly salary and the total hours worked, I think you’d find the hourly rate isn’t far off the National minimum wage; certainly in the first couple of years anyway!
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“P Evason” you have a point with the pay.
The rest of what you are spouting is dribble – perhaps you think i’m one of your pupils and believe everything you say? So stop the moaning and accept the holidays you’ve been given as a perk!
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I can see the headlines now ….
*Employees in “we don’t get paid enough” shocker*
article reads: “today in Britain workers from every employer in the country were up in arms over the revelation that they wanted more money and less hours. However the managers were adamant that they should stop moaning and be thankful they’re not one of the 2million unemployed”
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Oh my god, they are at it again – enough!!!
Alex, perhaps your girlfriend should find another job with all those alledged hours she puts in.
Plenty of people leave the house at 7am and earlier, and come back 6pm and later – so what?
The only people teachers will convince they are ill done by are other teachers (or teachers partners).
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Oh dear another over worked person.I worked with a chap who bless his cotton socks used to say he worked all hours his nickname was ACTION REPLAY becouse it was only when we were watching and we had to see it twice to believe it .Now i used to be in a low paid job but for the last three years have been running my own business i work physical 5 hours a week the rest is done on the lap top and visiting wholesalers . My working life is perfect and with out bragging earn i suppose a heads wage before this i worked as a low paid worker and believed due to leaving school with a few cse thought that was as good as it gets and believed that for 16 years. Now my advice to the teachers is if the hours are to long if it is to stressfull go out and better yourself and your working conditions and stop your moaning every flipping year you moan about something. And yes my grammer spelling is poor before a teacher comes on and trys to win an argument with a cheap shot, just answer your critics “one does protest to much”.
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You get me wrong. I wasn’t complaining about the hours on behalf of my girlfriend. She does not complain about the hours she puts in. All I was doing was trying to agree with P. Evason in the fact that teachers do work hard, however the perseption is that they do not. Most people think they are paid a huge whack, work 9:30 til 15:30 everyday and get all the same holidays the children get. None of which is true. Certainly not for any teachers i know!
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P,Evason
What do you do during
ppa time,
management time,
non teaching time,
break and lunch time.
Thats an awfull lot of paid time without kids to teach.
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Alex, I must say I find your response amusing. This is my my 54th year in the workforce. I work an average of 60 hours per week and last year took two days off for my summer vacation. In my spare time I join with others trying to help people with poor literacy skills. These are not just ESL students but those who have spent 12 years in the public system… a system that has failed to teach them to read and write in their own mother tongue – English.
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You say that you work 55 hours a week, is this averaged over 52 weeks or is this just the weeks that the school is open (I average 44 hours a week but this is over 49 weeks including all public holidays and still don’t earn £20,000)
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Ignore the Pay and the hours. Your pay is still well above the national average and your work hours are not excessive when compared top other jobs. Just be glad you have a job that is one of the most secure, and certainly has one of the best pensions in the country (probably only slightly worse that MPs). If I am right you still get a proportion of your final salary.
Due to the incompetence of the Government which pays your wages, many of us don’t even have that.
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I’m glad you find my post amusing, Tony. I have complete ability to read and write in English, thank you very much. I’m writing on a message board not writing a report or assignment, so hardly think grammar and spelling are important. Please forgive my lack of concentration.
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I find all this talk about teachers lot very interesting.
I commented on the earlier post regarding this issue, and in summary of what I said there, I felt that “the teachers lot wasn’t that bad, un fact probably better than some other professions”.
And by “profession” I mean:
Any job which requires formal qualification, such as: An Accountant, Lawyer, Solicititor Doctor, Architect, Engineer (Mechanical, Electrical, Imformation Technology Etc.
Now:
The point is this, what I’m comparing teaching to is other professions which “should” have high public regard, not least becuuse they carry high amounts of responsibility, and generally require a high level of academic qualification to become “qualified” and to carry out or practice your chosen profession “Chartered Engineer” for example, which I am,in fact)
So: I think teachers should be proud of the fact that they are being ( certainly in this case) compared to “established professions”.
I actaully said in my last post, I wouldn;t like to be a teacher, at least not to young people, But…
… Having thought about it, with a lifetime of engineering skills, and a raft of qualifications
(City ang guilds + HNc + HNc endoresments+Degree+Corporate memebership of IET and BCS)
… convering ALL aspects of engineering (Maths physicals, electrical theory, communication theory etc etc …
Would the teaching profession like to take me on as a teacher to impart knowledge to our young , in areas which appear to be sadly lacking? That is, Maths, Physics etc ????
Becuase I really do think, on balance, that this would be a lot easier and more satisfying than trying to run an internet service provider company !!
Any offers ?????
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My heart bleeds for the poor, underpaid, over worked teachers…
Final Salary? I would scrap that.
How many holidays do you get? Go on I dare you to state how many days you spent at work last year…
And to top it all off most of you are useless automatons with no real desire to teach… the old adages i strue: those who can do, those who cant teach.
Now stop your moaning and get back to work or find a real job and see how you get on with having to work full time.
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It seems some teachers get a little hot under the coller when all that is asked is to explain their working day and time managememnt.
When people pointing out a few things they throw rattles out of the pram could be due to never leaving the education system.
I say ask support staff even if one chap in another post said they are the last people he would ask and implied they may be failed teachers?? school yard bully put downs or what?Clearly they do a good job supporting the teachers and when they withdraw their service teachers oh yes rattles out of the pram again threaten to withdraw theirs.
So my answer is leave the teachers alone and in ignorance do not enter into an argument or in their words a assertive debate just admit they work all hours more than anyone else.
The pay is below the national average.
The work load is more than anyone else.
If it wasnt for them we would all be living in caves.
They deserve respect as a right due to becoming a teacher.
We must all never question them or their motives.
We must all agree all teachers are great at their jobs.
We must agree they should all get early retirement at 50 because they have worked harder than anyone else.
And we must allow them all to be Rude truculent and other words i cant spell .
Sorry for any grammer, spelling errors However i will give a response given to me by a member of the teaching clan when their grammer and spelling was pointed out to them “I do not teach english lang/lit etc it is not my area and how dare you point it out to me”(as said leave them in ignorance) Oh and for godsake do not tell them they are employees who applied for the job and knew its working conditions .
Allow the above on condition they stop moaning and whinging about pay , conditions, over work and all the other piffle at the yearly silly union conference they have I dont know how they fit it in .
I am happy in my job and never moan so perhaps they should join me in the world of selfemployment it is great and pays more and the holidays are cheaper i can start/finsh when i want
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FACT: Teachers have over 3 months paid holiday each year
FACT: Teachers are paid over the national average.
FACT: Many people are currently searching for teaching positions but the market place is overcrowded with job seekers for this profession.
If your girlfriend is that up set with her career path perhaps she should choose a different career with ONLY 22 holidays per year
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The people complaining here should, at the end of the day, be THANKFUL that they are not one of the 2.3 million people unemployed.
Personally, I would rather work so hard, and take my salary at the end of the month, than claim £75.00 ish jobseekers.
FYI: I am not a teacher!
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I have put 4 children through the state school system. Often teachers were in their cars leaving before the parents had finished their chatting outside. Most of the teachers I know personally go off for 5-6 weeks in the summer on holiday. I am sure the job is stressful at times but the long breaks must make up for that, a lot of people have stressful jobs without the long holidays. That must be harder! Teachers have always moaned – they must learn it at teacher’s training college!
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Annie, I think you meant “teachers’ training college”. Looks like your school failed to teach the difference between plural and singular.
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Just a point – who is teaching the kids while the teachers are posting on here?
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I have seen a teacher label a drawer, draw in an infant school!
I have stood in the shower at the swimming baths next to a teacher who was on a professional development day!
Petty comments like that of Mark indicates to me that he is a teacher.
I think “at Teacher Training College” would have been the most correct grammar.
To equate teaching qualifications with [Lawyer, Solicitor Doctor, Architect,] somewhat surprises me. These professions take 7 years before registration and are far more acaedemic.
Teachers are public service workers like, nurses,local council officers like town planners,environmental health etc.
As in these professions they can all progress taking further training but not one is on pay that is kept secret, hours that are so flexible, holidays that are so generous except the teaching profession.
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I work in a school, but not as a teacher. Most teachers do work really hard, long hours and at home, and even come in during holidays to catch up. I’ve not known any teachers who have gone away for more than 2 weeks during the holidays. Breaks and lunchtimes are spent having coffee and food (as intended) but also often supervising the children, answering questions and dealing with behavior. The amount of paperwork required and stupid initiatives by management is silly – just let them get on and teach – the kids and the staff would benefit.
I won’t become a teacher as I have no wish to have that level of stress in my life, despite the financial help it would be.
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To askeric dotcom -
If you could spell you may be of use as a teacher, until then stick to what you are doing and perhaps take up an evening class in English. The spelling tests that are set at school for the younger pupils are there for a reason, it seems that was not expressed properly in your day.
The assessment standards for all the qualifications you quote must be low judging on your command of the English Language.
I think a few of “…our young…” could help you along the way!
I wonder whether you could elaborate on “…Lawyer, Solicititor…” what is the difference, if such a difference exists, and if so, what role does a Lawyer undertake different to that of a “…Solicititor…”?
Keep your chin up.
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Eva, I wouldn’t put teacher training college in capital letters because it isn’t an official title – there is more than one teacher training college.
And isn’t it amazing that no matter how many people with experience of life in the classroom write in to point out that it’s not a bowl of cherries, those with no experience continue to moan. They just will not listen to anyone else.
Still, as long as we can complain about something, eh!
Oh, and by the way, I’m not a teacher.
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Excellent reply.
Many of you jumping on the band wagon should realise this is only in response to some clowns comments, which were wholly inaccurate and not a claim for more money etc.
I was in schools but was lucky enough to get out, but my wife is still in school and deserves every penny she gets!
So those that haven’t done the job- PULL YOUR NECK IN! and stick to commenting on facts and your own careers.
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Trevor:
A lawyer is a generic term for any practioner of the law. A solicitor is a specific role within practice of the law. For instance: barristers, judges and coroners are lawyers, but none are solicitors.
Also, the training for a solicitor is 24 months following a 1 year post grad diploma, (2 years if your degree isnt in law). What is a teacher? 30 hours?
I say we should abolish all the long holidays, the kids need to learn what it is like having to turn up to work 233 days a year, (and there are many in the UK that surpass that figure by a LONG way!) will lead to less of them being unreliable when they eventually have to start work… and will teach the teachers what the real world is like.
And taking a cue from Total: Any of them want to go on strike, give them their P45… plenty more muppets can do the job at least as good as the muppets we currently have in.
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I believe that “at Teacher Training College” is being used as a title in this context and implies many colleges without having to use the plural.
[Looks like your school failed to teach the difference between plural and singular.]
After this comment to Annie I am very relieved to hear that you are not a teacher.
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Trevor:
I think your comments in #22 are extremely INSULTING.
Trevor, READ my posts, and tell WHERE did I profess to have any SPECIFIC qualification in English? (other than speaking it – like most of us?)
I NEVER said I had any specific skills in English, and most of my spelling errors are due to keyboard usage NOT the lack of ability to spell.
(I’m SO sorry Trevor – but at my age I DO make the occasional slip on the keyboard – I DO apologise if it’s offended you so much)
I am EXTREMELY offended by your post.
IF YOU represent the attitude of the teaching profession towards someone like me with PROVEN SKILLS AND EXPERIENCE who would genuinely LOVE help people with TECHNICAL subjects, (NOT spelling or English), then I would rather NOT have anything to do with it.
So, Trevor,
In Closing ….
Thanks very much.
Your post has just confirmed to me what I believe is wrong with the teaching profession.
Thankyou – and goodnight
PS –
Trevor – PLEASE don’t bother pointing out any spelling errors in this post – I’m just not interested
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Have teachers not been brought up to “RISE ABOVE IT”.The one or two on here and other posts always go for the weak spot ie if you fall out with a large guy to win you call him fat. Very childish and very school yard and yet this is how they reply.If the general public are wrong why get so hot under the coller??? anger management course could come in handy you could do that in work time and get some work for a supply teachers.
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Perhaps some of those commenting here who know nothing whatsoever about teachers and teaching would tell us what jobs they do.
We know that Andrew Finch is self employed, that it is he that keeps everyone else in work and is the sole support of the country, the only thing is, he usually knows nothing about what he is commenting on so his business much be a success, well, it gives him a Headteachers salary.
Then we have eva land, who has some hang up on the teaching lot. What he/she is, I don’t know but having told her where to get the teachers salary scales from on a number of previous occasions, he/she still doesn’t know, can’t read or is just trying to be argumentative. How many times do you need telling where to get the pay scales from eva you with all those relatives who are teachers ?, Please tell us what you do eva, I am sure that, just like you with teachers, I can find something really derogative and insulting to say about it but, unlike you I will be the first to admit that whilst I slate your job, I don’t know anything about it. And, what ever job you do, I could always try to sound more convincing by saying that the whole of my family do the same job, that would be a porkie of course.But I admit it.
I get the strong impression that some of those who comment here are such educationally abject failures, sufficient to induce a big chip on the shoulder, that, like the classroom bully, the playground idiot and the throw-outs, drop-outs and others who cause havoc in schools, the first person to blame are the teachers. I wouldn’t mind betting that even now, some of them would still go running home to mummy if someone or something upset them.
Is it any wonder our country is in the state that it is.
Teachers do a good job, are seriously undervalued and after a week, if some of you were educationally equipped to get a job teaching, you would pack it in being totally unable to cope. In closing, could I just ask eva if he/she wishes to be told where to find out a teachers salary scale from.
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Dear me – a lot of envy out there. These replies go to show just what a petty small minded country the UK is becoming. Amazing that you know how hard teachers work by watching their cars leave the car park. Perhaps they are going home to prepare work. I’m not a teacher but come from a family of teachers and my wife also teaches. They work incredibly hard with a thankless job and have to put up with the kind of ridiculous comments form some people on here who can’t be bothered to try and find out exactly what teachers do before making daft comments. My wife was working Saturday and Sunday preparing work. And doesn’t moan about it – bit like the letter writers really – who aren’t moaning, just putting those who are too ignorant of the facts right. And as to the incredibly petty gripes about pensions – I haven’t got one so you shouldn’t have one either. How petty. Take that away and see how many people apply to be teachers (or work in the public sector for that matter). Then don’t complain when we don’t produce doctors, nurses etc because education suffers.
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I know the teachers in the school where I work, work extremely hard; start early and finish late,do a lot of work at home,their break and lunch times are spent in the classroom usually supervising children,and the amount of paperwork they have to do is unbelievable, but they are dedicated to their job and the children they teach. Sometimes people forget what an important job they do!
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Just how many of the bloggers would want to teach in our schools today? not many I guess! my youngest son is teaching in Africa and the kids just want to be there and learn unfortunately many of ours do not and the decline in discipline is making the job in the UK even harder! just for the record I am not a teacher.
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Alex,
I was not being critical of your spelling and grammar, I make numerous mistakes myself on these forums. What I was trying to say is that working 55 hours a week is not unusual especially for a person who is in his or her first or second year in the workforce. Many of us work 55 hours and much more after more than 50 years in the workforce.
My other point was that in spite of everything public education systems are failing far too many students. Check out international literacy and numeracy statistics… yet educators don’t seem to want to recognize this. There is little debate on changing curriculum, increasing the hours spent on language and related subjects, or returning to phonics as opposed to whole language.
That is why there is an army of volunteers throughout the English speaking world trying to solve this problem by teaching in colleges, schools etc., or simply in their own homes – all this in their spare time.
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Trevor,
Three of my son’s teachers couldn’t spell and one(of them) would consistently ask my son how to spell words when writing on the blackboard.
I often received memos from school penned by educators with apostrophes in the wrong place or missing altogether. The head of our school district sent out form letters to parents three years in a row with principal spelled principle.
My daughter’s teacher always spelled English with a l/c e…english.
I have had many debates with teachers who claim that correct spelling and grammar is not essential today and that it is not an indication of intelligence – but a (mere)photographic memory.
I must also point out that classroom conditions were vastly different 50 0r 60 years ago and both teachers and students worked under much worse conditions, especially during war time with the shortages and the threat of bombing. In spite of this we received a reasonable education and in some ways better than is offered in today’s schools.
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Right, pay attention, Eva and Annie.
“Teacher’s training college” suggests a training college for one teacher. Teacher in this case is singular. There is one teacher.
“Teachers’ training college” is a college for more than one teacher.
Are you with me?
But, having said all that, I probably wouldn’t use an apostrophe at all because the teachers do not own the college. It is not possessive. Therefore it does not require a possessive apostrophe.
Any other clever questions?
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Andy, sadly you are not quite right.
Many Judges are Solicitors before they go to the bench and many Coroners are Solicitors. You are right in that a Barrister is not a Solicitor simultaneously but a Solicitor can go on to qualify as a Barrister and likewise a Barrister can become a Solicitor.
You are not quite right on the training either.
For the avoidance of doubt, I am not a teacher though I fully support what they do and the way that many do it.
Keep your chin up!
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Again my point proved. To win an argument insult hence angry stuart comment(grammer/spelling not to hot their i’ve been told).It is not envy it seems people point a few things out and teachers and their supporters behave like immature school children and fail to answer questions properly when put to them .
Everyone is accountable and as teachers are public servants then the general public has a right to question them with regards their role .Everyone is questioned everyone has to account for things we do not all reply “we just want to be left to get on with it”.I had a happy time at school stuart, primary was perfect secondary had the odd lazy teacher around 3 who went on early retirement 5 years after i left i just begrudge paying my taxes which go towards some idle individuals pension but they know what they were and seem to be able to live with it . So i can and i do not think anyone on here who have questioned teachers pay/conditionsd have failed anything stuart they are members of the public who want to ask questions about a group of public servants i did not see teachers defending firemen,nurses,etcetcetc when they come under fire . The country is made up of more than teachers but they do not seem to think this.
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Andrew Finch said:-
“(grammer/spelling not to hot their i’ve been told).”
I rest my case, I suppose the teachers were to blame for this sort of nonsense. And this from a person who has the cheek to criticise teachers.
As for insults, just read some of the comments on this and another stream regarding teachers. I have not read one reasoned, balanced and factual criticism of teachers, all I have read is the bile, ignorant outpourings and insults from people that know nothing whatever about teachers/teaching and just put down the first nonsense that comes into their heads. One things is pretty certain, having never been a teacher but with a son and daughter in law in the profession, I am not constrained by the niceties that teachers have to be polite and restrained at all times. In short, when I read some of this garbage aimed at teachers, I will give insult for insult but mine will usually be true.
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Stuart,
You still have that old chip on the shoulder… one day you support small business the next day it is the teachers and their multi-national corporations called – well – unions. Now which is it?
Gone are the days at the Wrekin in 1947 – camping in the old log cabin without a care in the world. But, hey Stu, some of us old fogies are still workin’ and have a bit of a problem with the younguns and their never endin’ bellyachin’………Cheers, T..
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