Jet, we didn’t get a referendum on the European Constituion, because there wasn’t a European Constitition.

In the end, the proposed Constitution was down-graded to a treaty, which was less significant in its content than other previous treaties such as the Maastrich treaty, which you’ll recall was signed by John Major’s government, without a referendum.

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Peter is one of those that plays around with a couple of words and then say’s that a Constitution is a Treaty.
It should be quite apparant that this was one of numerous similar blatant twisting of facts that has got Labour into the situation that they are now in.
The people are not thick as Clown would like to think they are, in fact, the Constitution remains (as many leading EU politicians freely admit) a Constitution.
Cameron has promised that if the Tories get into power, and that is by no means certain even now (there is a large mountain to climb to get a solid majority) and the “Constitution” has not been ratified by that time then he will give us a referendum. If the “Constitution” however has been ratified, then it’s our hard luck, all the referendums under the sun will do us no good and we are stuck with it. Clown is a traitorous deceiver in this regard and thank god his day’s are numbered – surely the worst we have ever had.

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The treaty is clearly the same as the original constitution but as always the corrupt ruling elite deny people a chance to disagree.

It would seem that as far as our political masters are concerned we are only allowed a voice when we agree with them.

They have been given a stark warning this time, let us hope that next time even more people see through their treacherous lies and vote even more of these trough dwellers out.

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It’s quite bizarre that comments I tried to make earlier today about this article were censored.

The irony (obviously lost on the censor) was that the comments I made were about the media and Fascism… the censoring of my comment without any explanation can only be described as…

Facist?

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There is some question that democracy can apply beyond the nation state, hence it is based firmly on national self-government. That has nothing to do with the ethnic make up of the nation, only those who are racist would conclude that it does.

The EU is its self destined to become a nation state if it continues along the road to federalism, hence its citizens would become EU nationalists so we would be exchanging one nation for another. In fact the EU spends a great deal of our money attempting to build an EU demos and thus give itself popular legitimacy.

My problem is if nationalism is fundamentally wrong and leads to unrest then what gain the EU? Why exchange British nationalism for EU nationalism. Those who argue nationalism is fundamentally wrong should address this point if they are to be consistent and therefore convincing in their anti national argument.

Democracy is based on the concept that the people are the supreme rulers and the majority can make decisions binding the whole group it is not a particular view of how society should be as espoused by the left who would like us all to believe it is anti-democratic to vote anything but liberal left.

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Peter says

“One of the biggest threats to the jobs of British workers, far bigger than any threat posed by immigration, is the wholesale movement of jobs from the UK to cheaper locations. UKIP and other right-wing parties want to de-regulate to make this easier.”

I wonder which other right wing party is he alluding to?

The BNP would certainly not support de-regulation that would allow more jobs to be exported and to suggest so is deeply misleading.

Immigration is an enourmous threat to both the future stability and prosperity of our nation, the exporting of British jobs is also inexcusable.

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Serotonin,
You said,
“Sorry its a treaty you are wrong!

So, just because you say so, that’s correct then is it. I am not sorry to differ with your simplistic interpretation of what it is, I forget how many disagree with you and I am to lazy to Google it, but off the top of my head about 72% of those polled said that the Constitution/Treaty and Treaty/Constitution are one and the same thing and that they wanted a referendum.
And yes, at present I do support the Tories and am tremendously proud that I do not support, give credence to, believe in or in any way give one iota for this “thing” in Westminster which calls itself a Labour Government, and no, I am not “Toryboy”.
And yes, Bliar and Clown between, them gave back to the EU everything that Thatcher had gained for us from it, including our “rebates” which were given back on a plate without even a whisper from these pair of fairies. We have surrendered more to the EU under Clown and Bliar than we would have done under any Tory Government.
Touching on the BNP, yes, by any standards a disgrace but they got where they are under a Labour Government who gave them and their followers, a fertile breeding ground, by making this country the dumping ground for the world’s wanderers.

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Peter, granted, ignorance, apathy and irresponsible government all contributed to the BNP winning office.The present situation, not least the dire economic state provides a fertile breeding ground for parties on the extreme fringes both left and right and both are as bad as another. Any study of history and sociology would reveal this.

Last night Ben Bradshaw, a very intelligent, articulate and good politician for Labour recognised that immigration was a contributing factor to the success of the BNP. Rather belatedly he said that they would have to do something about it.

Every person in this country should feel ashamed about this afront to our standing in the EU. It is my hope that come the next EU election, this pair from the BNP will be given their marching orders.

One thing that also must be considered as well is that people no doubt voted BNP as a “protest” against the sleaze of the major parties. If this is the case, I also hope that these people will have regained their senses next time round as I am sure they will.

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James Whittall
When, in the current climate and in the perfect rural constituency, you as a BNP candidate could only get 3% or the vote it’s time to lie low. Your party is a party of idiots. Nick Griffin’s response when challenged about an all white membership policy was to retort about the black police officers association. How childish and churlish. That association does not seek an all white police force. Your election literature was hilarious. Mention of Dunkirk – who the heck do you think the British Expeditionary Force were fleeing from? It was a German nationalist version of you lot. The image of the Spitfire as flown by the Polish Airforce based in Britain. You can’t even define British beyond some white ideal that ignores our multi racial, multi cultural and multi heritage history. I regularly log on to the BNP web page and were it not for my utter distaste at the sentiments expressed I would find it one of the funniest bits of political comedy I have ever read. Today I saw your Fuhrer fleeing “a bunch of students”…we must all supposedly bow to this mighty organisation that has plans to lead our country. It took protest votes and abstention for the BNP to gain this electoral success of two seats but the BNP have been seen for what they are. Their members are largely known by the list being made public. The anti fascist organisations are going to have a field day in humiliating an organisation that brings shame on our nation. I have no concerns about your reply because you and your organisation’s opinions are irrelevant to decent society.

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Anthropogenic climate change is accepted by the following institutions;

the IPCC, the science academies of Brazil, Canada, China, France, Germany, Italy, India, Japan, Mexico, Russia, South Africa, the UK and the USA, as well as the International Council of Academies of Engineering and Technological Sciences; European Academy of Sciences and Arts; Network of African Science Academies; the International Council for Science; the European Science Foundation; the American Association for the Advancement of Science; the Federation of American Scientists; the World Meteorological Organization; the American Meteorological Society; the Royal Meteorological Society (UK); the Australian Meteorological and Oceanographic Society; the Canadian Meteorological and Oceanographic Society; the Canadian Foundation for Climate and Atmospheric Sciences; the American Geophysical Union; the American Institute of Physics; American Astronomical Society; the American Physical Society; the American Chemical Society; the National Research Council (US); the Federal Climate Change Science Program (US), the American Quaternary Association; the Geological Society of America; Engineers Australia (The Institution of Engineers Australia); the Stratigraphy Commission of the Geological Society of London; the European Geosciences Union; the International Union of Geodesy and Geophysics; and the International Union of Geological Sciences.

Yet UKIP, the BNP and bloggers like Ken Adams deny it.

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Simon, I don’t doubt your sincerity on a preference for exchanging your nationality and becoming an EU national, that is you choice.

But by merely offering your reasons for your choice you have evaded my point! For clarity I will repeat it

- If nationalism is fundamentally wrong and leads to unrest then what gain the EU? Why exchange British nationalism for EU nationalism?

You may argue the supposed benefits of the EU as much as you like but you really must address the point if you are going to continue to deride the nation state, otherwise your arguments are inconsistent and unbelievable.

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Stuart
Much of what you say I do actually agree with although UAF appear to differ from the BNP in that they do not campaign on a ticket of racial intolerance. The student comment was referring to an initial response by Griffin. There is always a risk of “rent a mob” hijacking what is otherwise a just cause. The BNP and its policies are reprehensible and really have no place in modern Britain. They have achieved some success in the EU elections due to multiple issues about which Westminister and the established parties (not just Labour) must take some responsibility. Unfortunately the BNP’s simplistic world view is easily accepted by the disaffected – particularly in the identification of scapegoats – but it is view that is also easily challenged as flawed. It is a world view that must be confronted openly in order to forcibly dispatch such nationalism to history. They claim not to be racist and yet their own election leaflets refer to “80 million Muslim Turks” who could swamp this country. Many foolish assumptions are made there not least of which is that should Turkey gain EU membership why would all or the majority of their nationals want to come here. I’ve been to Turkey and know where I’d be given that choice. The BNP show poor research and have increased the population of Turkey by several million. Also their leaflet makes no mention of the non Muslim Turks…presumably if the BNP is not racist they have no objection to this part of the Turkish population (which numbers several hundred thousands) coming here. The BNP have a flawed definition of British, and they themselves should truly be the ENP as they’re only really interested in one of the union countries. We are a country of many heritages and influences – our language is proof of that and we as a nation are better for the mongrel nature of our history. The BNP’s (and to a lesser degree Ukip’s)stance on migration is ridiculous. Again referring to their own election leaflet they have an obviously copied picture of a supposed Doctor with a dubious “quote” complaining about migrants working in the NHS. Two issues spring to mind. Firstly as a party who (I am told) have expressed displeasure with the welfare state what do they care about the NHS? Secondly the NHS would cease to function were it not for migrant workers in all disciplines from ancilliary to nursing to medical. If they would look at broader issues relating to migration then we would have no heavy, light or service industry. Our transport infrastructure would collapse. We would have no market garden induustry and other areas of agriculture would be damaged. London and several of our major cities would cease to function. In fact society as we know it would probably collapse. I am not affiliated to any political group but I can see this. The rent a mob were unfortunate (although I did find the incident entertaining) but the BNP has been ignored as a minor irritant for too long. They have raised their heads above the parapet by a very public election campaign. They must take the consequences when decent society says “NO”.

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Serotonin,

running true to form – complete and utter rubbish and you know it but it suits your position to come out with it. If you know anything about the groupings in the EU you will realise that, if what you is saying is true, the BNP will also be “grouped” with these centre right groups and consequently with the Tories, they won’t. There are eight or ten “recognised” political groupings in the EU parliament, as far as I am aware and also everybody else that knows something about it – but not yourself obviously, until the BNP take their seats there is no “fascist” groups whatsoever. Period.

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Huw Peach – I would suggest you retract your statement as you clearly do not know if someone is a BNP activist or not.

I would suggest you apologise for your comments

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It is pleasing to see that, in the main, whatever our political differences, most of us on these blogs roundly condemn the BNP and want no part of it. Whilst I would not recommend joining the UAF, (albeit they have many who at first glance appear to be quite respectable and drawn from all quarters, indeed, rumour had it that Cameron was a member) any opportunity of doing down the BNP should be taken and exploited.
Organised groups, formed to “take on” the BNP should be viewed with extreme suspicion and until they prove otherwise, should be regarded as being of the same nasty stamp as the BNP.
Simon, I accept and agree with what you say though I fail to see what the Lib Dems, the Tories, the Green’s, UKIP or any other party than Labour could have done to stop the BNP success, all have spoken out against the BNP without exception but only 3 or 4 months ago, many papers came out warning Labour that their policies were giving the BNP breathing space. They were concentrating far to much on middle England and marginalising their core vote which are the poor, the working class etc. It is these latter people who in the main I suspect, voted BNP. Anyway, it is to late to start blaming parties to a great extent, the BNP are here with us, we must now see what the politicians do to isolate them and cut off their oxygen.

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