None of our laws are made in Brussels, all the directives have to be enshrined un UK law before they become law, so 100% of laws are made by the UK Government.

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How about getting some East European MP’s to come here and undercut our own overpayed MP’s?
We have been told that Europe is a free market and that’s why alot of ‘British’ jobs have been lost to East European workers.
No need to worry about them NOT speaking English; Our own MP’s speak with fork tongues and double dutch, so we’re used to not understanding them.

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I think they should be presecuted for fraud like us, the public would if any of us try to milk the system, its all good and well prosecuting somebody for working on the side whilst on Jobseekers allowance etc so why should it be any different for a minister frauding the system and claiming back for luxury expenses at the expense of us, the taxpayer. Prosecute them all I say, including Gordon Brown. And also yes, I agree, cut their pay so they have live on less and get by with a struggle like most of us have to!

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I have heard that MP’s do not pay any tax on items purchased through the house of commons or house of Lords.Can anyone confirm this?

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Hear, hear. When Trevor Phillips recently marked the 60th Anniversary of the Declaration of Human Rights, he quoted Sir Winston Churchill who said of the British that “they should be allowed to dwell in peace and safety, without fear or bullying, or monstrous burdens or exploitations, however this may be imposed upon them.” How can we possibly reconcile that with our membership of the EU? Forty million pounds a day and for what?

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While agreeing that there is a case for cutting MPs’ remuneration in line with their reduced workload, surely there’s an even stronger argument to be made with local councillors?

Over the last 20 years or so vast areas of what were formerly councillors’ responsibilities have been handed over to unelected quangos or become the subject of delegated powers (decisions made by highly-paid officers).

During the period where most councils have ceased to be responsible for the direct provision of the majority of local services we have seen their allowances skyrocket, to the point where for many of them it is their main source of income. They even have a pension scheme these days.

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Andrew is correct in his comment that the letter is simplistic. In fact, in the assertion that 80% of our law is made in Europe, the letter writer is also completely inaccurate.

All of our law is made in our parliament. Some has its origins in Europe-wide initiatives, and many of those laws that are introduced in common with our European partners are greatly to our benefit.

Take for example the working-time directive. Although we have diluted this by having an ‘opt-out’, this important law nevertheless affords employees some protection against exploitative and unscrupulous employers.

Andrew Finch also points out, correctly, that taking a pencil home from the office is theft. But at the same time, the widespread expectation that employees in both blue and white-collar jobs will work hours well-beyond those in their contract without reward is also theft of a kind, is it not?

Look also at the TUPE regulations, designed to protect employees’ terms and conditions of employment when takeovers or privatisations occur. Here in Telford in the early ’90s, large parts of government IT work were privatised to foreign-owned companies – the TUPE regulations have protected redundancy rights etc. although sadly redundancies have since occurred, and the companies involved are now using cheaper off-shore staff and/or cheaper staff brought in from either within or outside the EU to replace what were formerly British jobs.

The final example of Euro-inspired legislation which protects workers is, of course, our minimum wage. So the picture painted by the letter author of some malevolent undemocratic Euro-machine foisting laws upon us simply doesn’t stand up to scrutiny.

As far as MPs’ pay is concerned, the original basis of the author’s anti-european attack, it remains a fact that we underpay our MPs when compared with many other legislatures. We should pay them more – say the same as GPs – but ban them from having other jobs. The oft-quoted suggestion that being a non-executive director gives them a ‘foot in the real world’ is nonsense. Since when did being a non-executive director give anyone a foot in the real world?!

As for expenses, everything should be properly receipted and justified, and second properties should be rented (not bought!) and funded centrally. All staff needed by MPs and Ministers should be provided by the Civil Service (which has far higher standards of probity in its expenses than MPs), and paid directly, rather than via some dodgy Conway-esque arrangement.

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Y Mab Darogan said:

“This is why our best and brightest work in the private sector for more money.”

That explains why our banks and financial institutions have been so successful recently then?

Neither the public or private sectors have a monopoly on greed and incompetence – in fact their records are remarkably similar.

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You will never get the cream to stand for goverment because not only is the pay lower than what they can earn but also the lack of respect from the public. At all levels why should those with brains enough to make millions put up with the mob mentality of the public most of who can not bother to vote any way. It is not money but respect that is needed. There are some very good MPs on all sides of the house but the way they are paid is wrong and the action of the few drags them all down. At the local level it is even worse. It is easy to do nothing but complain lets see someone come up with a real alternative instead of simply being angory from Shropshire !!! This takes time and real effort yet to be seen on these chat rooms I am afraid.

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After all that has gone before, even as late as today they “just don’t get it” do they.
Last night we had the boss of the House of Commons Commission, Sir Stuart Bell saying that today, the Speaker and MPs, (yes, you are reading correctly – I did say the “Speaker and MPs”) were going to draw up a new system of supervision of expences. They would “hive off” some staff from the “Fees Office”, (yes, again you are reading correctly, the Fees Office is comprised of clowns who allowed these lot of MPs to get away with their questionable claims that gave rise to this furore) to oversee and strictly enforce compliance of claims for allowances and expences. So there we have it.
These existing, grotesque rules and scales of allowances and the method of payment and audit (did I say “audit” – what a joke) were drawn up by these MPs themselves. NOW, THE SPEAKER AND STUART BELL ARE SAYING THAT THEY THEMSELVES ARE GOING TO DRAW UP NEW RULES AND ALLOWANCES, so that’s alright then. They just draw up another idiotic scheme favourable to themselves.
These clowns live on another planet, no other organisation, be it private or public would expect or indeed allow the claimants to draw up the rules themselves but this is what MPs think that they can get away with AGAIN.
Nothing short of a totally unbiased, free and independent body should be allowed anywhere near MPs pay and allowances with an automatic referral to the Police in the event of a bent or incorrect claim. Some of these claims were as near as dammit to breaking the law, indeed when one looks at the “Green Book” and reading the reasons for which making claims is based upon, some clearly did break the law albeit the fact that claims were passed for payment appear to nullify any suggestion of law-breaking.
There should be no cover ups or “patsying” around, if Cameron, Brown and Clegg have nothing to hide themselves and it appears that they do not, then there should be no mercy, they should sack every one that has had his/her sticky fingers in the sweet jar, starting with two female Cabinet Ministers who appear to have totally lost all credibility and there is one male Conservative MP that I can think of as well who purchased a quad bike on his expences in order for him to get around his constituents at the various agricultural shows in his constituency. They are insulting us and taking extreme liberties and continue to do so whilst they use their pathetic excuses that the “system allowed it”.

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Jayne Oliver – I would suggest that by paying MPS this low amount they are being forced to “sponge” by being artistic with living expenses however if you pay a MP over half a million pounds they will no longer need to do this plus paying a MP more will attract the brightest and best Britain has to offer. If Hazel Blears, Alastair Darling, Jacqui Smith are the best our country has we are in a very poor state indeed.

Compare it to football, Premiership clubs pay over 100K per week for the very best footballers a league 2 club pays less and gets a worse type of footballer.

We are paying league 2 wages and getting league 2 MP’s

We need to pay Prem wages and get Prem MP’s.

Who can argue that Sir Alan Sugar or Sir Richard Branson would not make a better PM than Gordon Brown.

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YMab

Agreed with you totally, until you mentioned those chancers Sugar and Branson!

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Serotonin – Just swap any well respected businessman with brown and Darling in that case instead of Sugar and Branson.

I would bet 99% of our leading brightest minds in business could do a very good as a MP or Pm

I cannot see Darling, Blears, Smith or Brown running a successful business though.

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An MP should be paid circa £250,000 per annum. People who think MPs are overpaid need to get into the real world. A reasonable salesperson at a small firm can easily earn £70k, nevermind a director or MD.

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Lucy
U.R. Tory Boy and I claim my £5.

You hark back to the upper classes ruling this country and the world – they could only run things when nobody could argue back – the worlds changed now, they’ve gone the same was as the USSR. Back in your box.

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Looking at the letters page of paper, you would think that Shropshire is full of xenophobic anti-europeans. But we know that UKIP has been conducting a mass letter writing campaign to local and national newspapers with the aim of brainwashing people into thinkinh the EU is a waste of money. Often making unsubstantiated claims, such as the 80% of laws being made in Brussels and the £40 million a day cost of membership.

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Please accept my sincere appologies Peter. It just that I get sound wound up by some of the comments is sends me into a state of confusion!

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But I am feeling much better now, as the song says “I can see clearly now, the rain is gone,
I can see all obstacles in my way” ;o)

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