Is this a joke letter? If the writer had not paid for and enrolled on a training course they would have continued to receive the jobseekers allowance! This must be a joke?

Their income has changed to zero therefore they no longer qualify for a housing benefit?

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In my view, i think any couple where one is in employment should not get jobseekers benefits anyway as surley the one partner should support the other? and with the help of tax credits why the need to claim job seekers money??.I actually thought this was the case .
I know of a friend who was made redundent his wife is on around 11k p/time his salary was 31k he went to the job centre for the first month to sign on etc his complaint was he was a lot brighter than the staff who were telling him how to get a job????and knew how to apply etc and he was not insulting them it was a fact. After 4 weeks he asked if they get any 30 plus k jobs in the job centre to which they replied NO so he said well whats the point of me coming in then??.He refused to return and signed up as self employed pays his stamp and is doing odd jobs for now his wife is working p/t her wage is made up with tax credits they get a rent rebate and council rebate so why humiliate yourself signing on ??.As his view somthing will be along soon which i am sure it will.And if he took a low paid six quid an hour job he would get it made up with tax credits rebates etc any way so whats the difference??????.

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Regardless of the problems of the benefits system, voting Tory in Telford at the next election will probably create a Cameron Commons majority, so Labour need to be backed to prevent this. However, in The Wrekin voting Labour will only maintain a Brown Commons majority and only voting Tory can stop this there.

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Go Broon you useless man!

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This propaganda directed against social security cannot go unchallenged, because it only benefits those who hate the fact that there is such a thing as society, and that we are all in it together.

The welfare state, free health care and free education are things that previous generations of ordinary British people fought hard for.

At a time when tens of thousands of British people are losing their jobs, we should all be pleased that they are there to support us, and thus the rest of society.

I want my taxes to go towards helping people get through difficult times, and keeping our society strong and mutually supportive, because I know that it could easily be me in their situation.

What is going to get this country moving in the right direction?

Cooperation, solidarity with others and ‘Yes we can!’ positivism?

Or cynical scapegoating and name-calling?

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KATIE YOU SAID not everybody can claim working tax credits. I actually never mentioned working tax credits i was talking about child tax credits which if you were of a different age and circumtances may find yourself in this section but as such you are not .
You have a degree but by your own words you you are not in work so the degree is pointless until you are. You are unemployed at this time in your life .Your partner is in employment and if you rent if his wage is as low as you say he would get rent/rate rebates. To be honest from what i gather the working tax credit only works out at around 100 quid a month so it is neither here or there. What you should be asking yourself are you looking for a job?? have you lowered your level to low paid for the time being unemployed is unemployed i am afraid and calling people scum and perhaps i should have a baby helps no one and is based on your assumtions of people. Every persons circumstances are different depends on a lot of things just becouse you do not fall in to it does not mean it is wrong .

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Rodney Nosnail, I feel that I should explain why I got involved in this discussion in the first place.

Over the weekend this thread was covered with unpleasant contributions from BNP activists, which deserved a vigorous response.

The Shropshire Star has since removed these comments (although katie’s undignified ‘scum’ comment remains).

It was these comments -aimed at undermining any sense of society and mutual solidarity- which motivated me to respond.

(Without the context of these (now removed) comments, I concede that my comments appear contradictory. Apologies, Rodney, but I can understand why the Star moderators decided to remove the comments).

While I feel that all of us have the inalienable right to social security, and this right needs to be vigorously defended against those who say there is no poverty in this country and no need for us to stand up for each other, I do not feel that New Labour has yet gone far enough in tackling the gap between rich and poor in this country.

You say you believe in ‘a society where everybody plays their role and accepts their responsibilities.’

I agree, but I feel that in a world where more money is lost through tax avoidance than by supporting the unemployed, that we ought to concentrate our focus in the most practical, efficient and effective way.

Would you say that big corporations are ‘accepting their responsibilities’, when they put their money into tax havens rather than paying tax to governments?

And would you say those same corporations are accepting their responsibilities, when governments are forced to top of workers’ wages with a Working Tax Credit, because some corporations are not paying their workers a LIVING WAGE?

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Huw: Child poverty in the UK – you do make me laugh!

I saw three kids walking down the lane and after reading your 1 in 3 claim, I expected one to be mal-nourished with no shoes. However they were all a bit tubby and had designer brand trainers.

I suggest you go to Zimbabwe and preach to Mr Mugabwe about child poverty, or does your sense of community not expand to te developing world?

PS do you know what the criteria is for UK Child Poverty? Well one thing is not having internet access at home!!!

Honestly *tut*

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Katie: What does a “degree and good career” have to do with it? You should have been more financially prudent when things where good to ride the storm.

Anyway if your ‘degree’ and ‘good career’ are so special, I’m sure you’ll be back in work in no time – the benefit system isn’t really a concern to the achedemic elite like you, is it?

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Huw –

I’m not old enough to claim to have lived during the war years, but my parents and relations certainly did – and THEY all did more than “their bit”

But the effect of that war time spirit lived on well into the ’50′s when WE ALL worked together in the garden (and elsewhere in the community at large), and on the allotments, gorwing food for all the family.

Nothing was wasted. – Talk about recycling now ?? – I think we had the edge on that well and truly!!!!

And as for being aware of what went on in the war years –

well ….

As I lived and grew up just outside East London – I saw with my own eyes much of the devastation that was left after the war – and we played as kids in old bomb shelters, and disused Army and Home guard buildings.

My grand parents “survived” a direct hit on the house opposite by a V1 (doodle bug) .. by hiding behind the piano – which still bears the marks of the glass slivers that shot into it following the blast. A paving stone, blasted high into the air, broke through their roof, and crashed into the ground floor room behind them

My mum was left on her own with my two eldest brothers when my dad joined the army in 1941.
She was evacuated to surrey, all on her own to look after two young baby boys – no Maternity leave and Paternity leave for new fathers then. then !

The cinema next to Ilford station (about 4 miles from where I lived) was for many years left as a wreck after suffering a direct hit late on in the war from a V2 rocket (V2 rocket was the first “space” rocket, as opposed to the V1 “doodle bug which relied on normal “winged” flight – in case you didn’t know)

My Uncle, who was in the home guard, used to collect shrapnel with his young son after raids, to help with the War effort.

And you ask am I familiar with the mood in the war years?

My parents and granparents must be turning in their graves if they could see some of the things going on today!

And then – much later on in the late 50′s and early ’60′s, when I got interested in radio, I bought a No 19 set from the junk shops in SOHO (Anyone remember GW smiths in Lisle Street? or Proops Brothers in Tottenham court road?) for my first amateur radio transmissions on 160M (1.8-2.0 Mhz) and 80M (3.5-3.8Mhz) bands.

My father was in the Royal Corps Signals, and used the 19 set during his passage across the middle east and into southern Italy cc 1944-45.

Like him – I became adept at using morse code, as a radio amateur (Which you had to be competent in anyhow to get a Transmitting Licence)
-and
I can see my father now -looking into the garden shed – seeing me use an old Wartime radio transceiver – that he’d used 20 years before – and you suddenly realise what all that meant….

I don’t think any of todays events comes anywhere near those times.

Too much has changed for those times never to return

And finally – I’ve certianly NEVER forgotten those less fortunate than me.

I’m often cticised for being TOO helpful – and in business you VERY quickly learn that all that does is earn you less respect I’m afraid.

Customers to whom you charge little, ALWAYS expect MORE for less, or even nothing!

So There you are – and I STILL say most people like me would NEVER expect any help – but that doesn’t mean we won’t give….

It’s just that, as was said earlier – we object to paying all this money into a system that does appear to help those that, in some cases t shouldn’t really be receiving it.

And Finally – I assume you ARE employed, and in the Public sector, since you never answered the question?

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#18 – Boring!!! Change the record will you, and stop believing the likes of Mr or Mrs Public Sector Enemy who frequent these threads with their increasingly inane ramblings. So state employees moan about paying their taxes do they? Doesn’t everyone? Obviously not in your reality.
According to your goodself and,no doubt Mr Finch’s friend too, I lack the intelligence/skills to work anywhere but the public sector. WRONG! What a wonderfully childish and sweeping accusation to make – and based on what may I ask? Suppositions and chinese whispers it would seem.
For the record, I don’t begrudge the needy of their entitlement, particularly in these increasingly difficult times. But then, I work in the public sector (shock, horror – I also work for a private firm with my apparently limited skills) so I don’t expect you to be able to comprehend that.

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That’s what the government is for, Lucy W.

Rodney Nosnail talked about ‘society where everybody plays their role and accepts their responsibilities.’

People in democracies expect governments -local and national- to accept their responsibilities and help those who are less fortunate.

That’s why I support the LIVING WAGE rather than the complicated Working Tax Credit to help people who are struggling.

Why do you not think governments have a responsibility to provide their citizens with social security and to target it at the poorest and most vulnerable, Lucy W?

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Dear Eric, nice to hear that someone else has a realistic grasp of World War II on the home front. Indeed I could also regale such stories that I have heard from first hand witnesses,and I think Huw would be shocked as to the ‘fate’ of German Air Crew who bailed out over London.

I am currently listening to Churchill’s speech “These Cruel Wanton, Indiscriminate Bombings of London” (11/9/40), it sets the tone and if Huw thinks the German pilots were welcomed with a cuppa and a slice of cake, then down to the local for a knees-up around the piano, he’s very much mistaken.

My Grandmother used to kill two pigs a year (could have gone to prison for it) and sold surplus eggs on the black-market for petrol coupons. Now I dont put my grand-mum in the same league as Private Walker in Dads Army, but black marketeering was rife.

I think ‘Charity begins at home was the phrase of the day’.

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Lucy W, you said charity begins at home.

Is that where you would like it to end?

I am not denying that there was profiteering and horrific violence during the war.

But would you deny that there was also tremendous heroism and altruism?

As askeric says (#19), when talking about the ‘war time spirit’, the dominant sentiment of the day was of people working together for a common aim.

Then the government totally re-organised the economy to deal with the Nazi threat.

In the same way we should be re-organising our economy now to deal with the climate threat, reorganising legislation on living wages to make work pay and ensuring that those who have lost their jobs or housing through no fault of their own are treated fairly and with dignity during this very difficult period.

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Let’s face it … though Huw usually has a lot to say he has very little experience in life… he wasn’t even born when the war was on. And as Askeric surmises he is a public servant (affectionately called snivel serpents in this part of the world) so has a nice fat pay-cheque and almost no chance of being fired. Feeling sorry for the great unwashed & unemployed helps their collective socialist conscience – but don’t ask them to go out on a limb or take a risk or two to create employment.

No – not on your nelly

But that’s what really helping out and sticking together means…taking risks to benefit others, not sitting in a warm office and writing letters to the editor!

With the present financial crisis I still could lose everything I’ve worked for … just imagine Huw being 70 plus and losing out …….too bad and so sad….but I can always pick up the pieces and start again.

No government handouts for this cowboy….What happened to self-reliance in the old-country??

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