EU threat to fire service
Tuesday 24th March 2009, 3:30PM GMT.
A Shropshire fire chief today warned of “devastating consequences” if the county’s retained firefighters are forced to comply with European Union employment laws.
Paul Raymond, who is backing a campaign by county Euro MP Liz Lynne, said the cost of maintaining emergency fire cover with a full-time service could be the equivalent of doubling Shropshire’s council tax.
And Shropshire Retained Firefighters Union chairman David Jennings said a change in the law “would wipe us out”.
Mr Raymond is backing Miss Lynne’s campaign to preserve the opt-out clause of the 48-hour week limit in the Working Time Directive.
Shropshire has more than 320 retained firefighters who man all but one of the county’s 23 fire stations.
Limit
Mr Raymond, deputy chief fire officer, said: “This time limit would have devastating consequences,” adding that firefighters provided thousands of hours of emergency cover each week.
“Bridgnorth is a typical ex- ample, with 16 crew,” he said.
“These retained fire-fighters are on call to respond to emergencies from home and work and most already work around 42 hours per week for their main employer.
“With the three hours per week training they do for us that leaves very little time for them to attend emergencies and carry out vital fire prevention work.
“Last year Bridgnorth att- ended 308 emergency incidents. Even if averaged over a year, under a 48-hour limit our retained firefighters could only cover half of them.
“A completely full-time service in Shropshire giving the same level of cover in re-mote rural areas would cost significantly more for the tax- payer at the very time when we are looking to make our service even more efficient.”
Mr Jennings said: “A change to legislation like this would wipe us out. We would also lose 1,292 hours we worked on community fire safety last year, on home risk assessments and Crucial Crew and so on.”
Miss Lynne is fighting to keep the opt-out clause after a vote by the European Parliament to scrap it.
She said: “Senior fire officers in many brigades are now very concerned at the threat to fire cover outside major towns. It is vital that we make clear to Gordon Brown that lives would be at risk.”
By Dave Morris
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this must be a joke, its volunteering, not working so its not captured by the working time directive anyway
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I don’t know which is worse here – the fact that yet again we are on bended knee to Brussels begging them to let us, a sovereign nation carry on business as usual, or the fact that we are dependant on the goodwill and bravery of people prepared to put their lives on the line as well as holding down a full time job to make sure we have enough fire fighters in the county (and thanks must also go to the flexible employers who allow their staff to drop tools at a moments notice) – how many Star readers realise there are only THREE fully manned fire stations in Shropshire – two in Telford and one in Shrewsbury – glad I don’t live in the south of the county !!!!
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Hooray for the EU! They want you to have a professional, fully trained, full time fire service. In what way is that a threat?
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How much longer are we going to tolerate this nest of vipers called the European Union ?. We were conned into it by the Heath government who were very selective indeed about the information we were given. We were informed that it would be a “common market”, no mention was ever made of it being a “Federal Europe” and this insistance that ‘one size fits all’ has proved to be what it always was that it fits no-one at all. If I had any back teeth left I’d be fed up to them over time and again our country dancing to this rubbish’s tune.
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the eu is run by the greedy, the insane,idiots,and those who oppose personal freedom and free speech.
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Jackie, it’s not volunteering, it’s a paid job of which tax is paid, hours worked and lives put on the line.
This will have a devastating effect on the UK’s fire services.
Still at least all the full time firefighters can eat bananas of the same size!
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is it safe for people to do more than 48rs a week especially if it involves doing life saving work
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Richard, removing the retained option from the fireservice is the most dangerous thing a goverment can do. The retained service counts for almost 80% of the UK’s fire fighting capability.
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nonesense, this is a non story, its never going to happen, its just designed to scare monger about the EU
All member states have volunteer fire fighting forces and volunteer territorial armies, nurses, etc, they are all exempt from the working time directive
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Jackie & Katie, would you please research your ill informed, incorrect information better before you embarrass yourself further.
Retained Firefighters are no different from full time firefighters, except one is at home on call – the other at a fire station. Indeed a lot of full time firefighters are also retained. Everything from the training, equipment, PPE, to the calls are exactly the same. You cannot tell the difference.
In reponse to Katies comment – If the (unenforceable) EU directive came into force, look at this way.
A retained firefighter probably averages £300 – £400 pounds per month. A full time firefighter costs around £1300 – £1400 per month. Therefore there is a £900 saving per employee. Multiply that by the Countys 320 employees and that’s a ‘saving’ of nearly 3.5 million pound in wages alone per year. Add that onto Shropshires Council Tax and I bet you’d be moaning. The retained system is an extremly cost effective, proffesional way of delivering a Fire Service.
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Katie said: Mar 24th, 2009 at 19:59 Hooray for the EU! They want you to have a professional, fully trained, full time fire service. In what way is that a threat?
So the 80% of the UKs firefighting service are not fully trained and prepared to risk their lives on a daily basis for yours and your families safety?
Typical answer from someone with half the facts.
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Yet more EU meddling in the way we are allowed to run our country.
Are the EU offerring to fund a full-time Fire Brigade for every small town in the land?
What would have happened in Australia if the firemen all downed tools for “exceeding working hours?”
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Most other EU countries do have large volunteer firefighter forces but in Britain we have 18,000 retained crew who are paid for the hours they put in. Scrapping the opt out on the 48 hour limit is not a plan by the European Commission – it was voted through by Euro MPs, opposed by Liz Lynne (a LibDem) and opposed by the UK government but supported by many Labour MEPs and the Socialist group.
Liz Lynne is the only UK Euro MP on the conciliation committee in Brussels which has to come up with an agreed way forward in four weeks. The key thing to win is to stop the government who are part of the conciliation process from giving up.
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this is why we must say ‘non’ to brussels and get out of the meddling eu now only conservatives will take a tough line with europe, brown the clown loves brussels sprouts, we eat roast beef instead god save the queen
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We should do as the French do stick 2 fingers up to the EU directives if we do not agree with it
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The working time directive is basically a sensible one, designed to prevent exploitative employers forcing workers to work excessive extra hours, often beyond safe limits, and more often than not, without pay or other reward.
In times of recession, greedy employers are even more likely to try this tactic, and it’s a good thing that we have legislation to protect our rights to a decent workplace, and fair pay for hours worked.
Despite all the anti-EU hysteria, I’m sure a sensible compromise will be reached which allows our valuable retained firefighter service to continue, alonside sensible limits on working hours.
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well said peter, the wtd is essential for health and safety and saves lives
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I’m wondering whether the hobby bobbies ( special constabulary) will be similarly affected?
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Agreed Peter and Peter – this story could have equally headlined “EU pressurises UK governement to improve UK Fire service by requiring fully trained firemen and improved pay”. albeit in another parrallel universe, not this one).
OK it’s a bit long for a healine, but get my drift. I don’t support the EU on much – but this is to trying and improve the lot of our fireservice staff.
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So much anti-EU in Shropshire! People forget the ‘meddling’ Europeans have a better standard of living, work less hours, have more holiday, live healthier, happier, family orientated lives and have lower crime rates. But NON! We do not want that in ‘Great’ Britain.
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utter bunk
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sorry, but this is utter rubbish.
The WTD applies to employers, and employee is not restricted from holding 2 jobs and working 48 hours in each if he wishes.
the 48 hour period is an average over a (from memory) 3 month period.
This a retained fireman, employed 45 hours per week, by a local company, can still work 48 hours per week for the Fire Service.
The county fire chief ought to get his facts/law right before making such comments.
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Let’s have a vote on the EU!
What are they scared of?
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DevilsChair,
Assuming you’re not a troll, and that you haven’t read my other post, would you please elaborate on how making the fire service full time will improve the service you recieve. And for your information, I’m not retained, I’m full time.
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EWTD effects all workers not just firemen although there case is exasperated by it, we should maintain the choice to opt out.
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silly scare story
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Capt Chaos,
Why would you want to opt out? Isn’t 48 hours work a week enough for you? Especially at a time when there are so many people who have no work.
I wonder if the CBI and others who are in favour of the opt-out would be so keen to maintain it if it were maintained only on the basis that anyone working above 48 hours per week actually got paid for those hours? I doubt it!
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Tory Boy
Perhaps you are unaware of Cameron’s actual policy on Europe?
BTW I think you’ll find that we have the original great Europeans (the Romans) to thank for Roast Beef!
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Mike – my answer was to Peter and Peter I’ve no comments to you. My point was rather about the rabid anti-EU comments that people so easily sound off. I appreciate the efficiency the part-time system has in place. People forget the EU money comes back to us in many ways – new roads and improvements being one major one. Its easy to just attack the EU, but were in it – we should fight our corner, and not remember who our EU MPs are once a few years when there’s a vote.
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Be under no illusion removing the opt out is a clear danger to public safety nationwide. Maybe removing the opt out is not the way forward but an exemption to cover the rds. I am a retainer in Staffs and of our 15 staff only 4 would be able to provide any suitable cover. The rsd like myself provide cover that and hold down a full time job.Take the likes of myself working 44 hours on nights away providing vital daytime cover and you might as well shut our station. I hope the folk above who know little or nothing about the rds can sleep sound in there beds knowing in the event of a catastrophe that the nearest fire appliance could well be an additional 10 – 15 minutes further away!!!
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Only the BNP can get us out of the EU.
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