Can you see Snowdon from The Wrekin?
Tuesday 17th March 2009, 4:33PM GMT.
Can you see Snowdon from the top of The Wrekin? That is the big question being considered by lovers of Shropshire’s landmark hill.
The debate is raging on the website All Friends Round The Wrekin after a critic poured scorn on the “misleading” toposcope at the summit.
The metal disc, designed by the late Gerry Powell, was originally set on The Wrekin in 1977. It was replaced by Wellington Rotary Club in 2005 after it deteriorated.
It depicts landmarks, including the 3,561ft summit of Snowdon, at all points of the compass.
But its accuracy has now been questioned by David Squires, who is carrying out research into long lines of sight in the British Isles.
He said on a recent visit to the summit of The Wrekin that he found the toposcope very useful.
“However, I notice Snowdon (71 miles) is identified on it. Recent research by Jonathan de Ferranti has established Snowdon is not actually visible from The Wrekin, even on the clearest of days. The line of sight is blocked by part of Cadair Berwyn.
“I appreciate the intention in putting Snowdon on the toposcope may have been to indicate the general direction of objects of interest, rather than to show what surrounding hills are visible, but nevertheless I think this is misleading.”
But Wellington author Allan Frost, who says it should more accurately be described as a topograph, and fellow historian George Evans are accusing Mr Squires of making a mountain out of a molehill.
Mr Frost said: “I think Gerry was a bit misguided – it was a flight of fancy on his part – but he’s not around any more to ask why he did it.
“It isn’t the end of the world. Walkers will still get enormous pleasure from viewing the vista, whether or not they take the trouble to identify every single indicator on the topograph.”
Mr Evans said: “I must admit that in 73 years of looking at the view from The Wrekin I have never seen Snowdon, though I have seen the barrage balloons over Liverpool during the last world war.”
By Peter Johnson
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ive been here lots
answer is simple
no you cannot
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David Squires needs to get a life – I hope this research isn’t funded by the taxpayer. What a waste of time.
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I havent been able to see snowdon from the wrekin, I wouldnt even know how he could see balloons in Liverpool during the WW2. Can someone fund my research please, I want to see Telford Shoping centre from Ironbridge.
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Being a native of Wales myself and having enjoyed climbing the Wrekin on many occasions I can confirm that in the right light and time of day that you can indeed see Snowdon.
It takes a keen eye for detail and a expert on mountain ranges to identify it but it is indeed viewable.
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Not entirely relevant to this issue, but interesting neverthelss – I used to live in Derbyshire and on a clear day the Wrekin was visible from a point of high ground near Kedleston Hall to the north of Derby. UI would estimate this distance to be in excess of 60 miles.
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From just below the Needle’s Eye you can see the ‘Beacon’ pub at the top of Madeley Bank. It’s white and stands out clearly. Also, you can see the Wrekin from Wyle Cop in Shrewsbury. But, when you stand outside the front of Shrewsbury School, you can see a hill you to your left (i.e. NW of Shrewsbury). Any idea what it is?
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seeing the wrekin from wyle cop is a bit closer than finding snowdon from the wrekin, maybe in the right light and time of day, then yes you maybe able but whenever iv been up there I havent saw it, and even my friends havent saw snowdon when up there.
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I don’t know what all the fuss is about, as a Scout in the late 40s early 50s, a mate and myself (older than me and looking the part in order to buy beer) regularly camped out in the log cabin and we used to get so inebriated to the extent that we couldn’t even see the Wrekin from the Wrekin let alone anything else and everything over 5 yards away was just a hazy blur.
I seriously doubt some of these more extreme claims and iv’e sat on top of the Wrekin in all weathers on fine days with unlimited visibility to thick snow and pouring rain. There are far to many “obstructing” features between the Wrekin and some of the locations mentioned here and even if the weather permitted it, these obstructions wouldn’t.
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Stephen, it could be Caradoc.
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Here’s a question. Could one see The Wrekin from Snowdon?
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A bit off-topic I know, but during WW2, my grandfather could see the searchlights over Birmingham or Wolverhampton from St Luke’s Road, Ironbridge. Also, you can see flats in the Black Country from the Stiperstones.
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“…fellow historian George Evans… accusing Mr Squires of making a mountain out of a molehill.”
The Wrekin is the molehill presumably?
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I live in Market Drayton and i wish my TV Aerial could see the Wrekin, then i would get more Digital Channels :)
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went there this morning, couldnt see athing it was so foggy!
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Hey there Stuart..
I was (also)on top of the Wrekin at that time (don’t remember seeing you there…) however, we didn’t use the luxurious log cabin… the cabin was for… well…kids from the posh part of Shrewsbury. We, the rough and ready kids from Ditherington, slept out in the open.. or in tents – if we were lucky.
As regards views… you can’t beat a bivvy on top of New Zealand’s Mt.Cook (12,300 odd feet)… watching the sun rise in the Pacific and set in the Tasman….brilliant… try it sometime….! No log cabin or tents required.
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can you see wales 2nd highest mountain aran fawdy or 3rd highest cader idris
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One didn’t have to be posh to use the log cabin Tony, just a member of Meole Brace Scout Troop(or any troop as far as I know). Ditherington kids would have been more than welcome, I had some good friends from there. We were the “Wild Bunch”, the Bowery Boys, you name it all rolled into one. Not surprising you didn’t see us, we would have been in trouble if anyone saw us the sort of nonsence we used to get up to. There were no Scout badges for poaching, birds nesting, boozing or generally creating mayhem (in a non criminal way of course).
Know Cader well devon, was stationed at Tonfanau with the Army doing National Service and afterwards lived in Towyn (now Tywern) for 12 months. Used to do trout fishing in the River Dysyney with the Gamekeeper from the Corbet Arms Hotel. If Cader can be seen from the Wrekin then there has been a miracle that only the almighty can explain, they would need to have asuddenly grown to about 20,000 feet.
As for Aran Fawdy, where the heck is that, I can guarantee that one cannot see that from the Wrekin, it sounds as if it on the west coast of Ireland to me, it is Gaelic of course.
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Read about this in the paper last night and was shocked at the ignorance!!!
The fact is you can see Snowdon from the Wrekin. I have just researched it now and would like to see Jonathan de Ferranti’s so called ‘evidence’
Basically Snowdon’s Grid reference is 2610,3544, Wrekin is 3629,3081, so plot this on a graph and the bearing from W to S is 336 degrees and this does go via the Berwyns. Perpendicular to the line joining S & W, plot the heights, (S 1085m and W 407m) and the line that joins the tops, is the line of sight.
If you follow the bearing you will see that it passes to north of Cadair Berwyn (827m), in the bottom of the saddle to the un-names summit with a cairn at 697m. This point where the line of sight crosses the saddle is grid reference 3075,3335. Again, if you plot this on your graph it will be on the line of sight.
If you take a line from this, perpendicular you can see that the line of sight is 800m above it. By referencing the OS map, this point is in fact 770-780m.
Hence the summit of Snowdon can be seen ‘20m’ above the saddle of Cadair Berwyn, therefore I have not bothered to allow for the curvature of the earth.
Now Messrs Squires and de Ferranti, where’s your evidence?
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