How crowded are our trains?
Wednesday 5th November 2008, 6:55AM GMT.
Transport Secretary Geoff Hoon is to visit Shropshire to see for himself the “misery” one MP claims commuters between Telford and Birmingham have to endure. But how bad is it?
Mark Pritchard, MP for the Wrekin, claims “people are crushed into carriages like cattle”.
Certainly our online readers appear to back his views, with one commuter describing a recent early morning journey where passengers were ‘”rammed” in to two carriages.
We want your comments on the state of services between Telford and Birmingham. Are you regular commuter, and if so how are your daily journeys to and from work? You can email your comments and pictures to us here
See also: Transport minister to see county trains
- Most train services between Shrewsbury and Birmingham are operated by Arriva Trains Wales and London Midland.
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I regularly travel from Shrewsbury to Southampton – which is change at Birmingham New St; Yes this train is always crowded but I usually get a seat going in the mornings but when i return a few days later the train is always packed at Birmingham ( that’s if i am lucky enough to get my connection – which is my big argument )I always have a suitcase 0 but usually some youngster is sat in the luggage racks due to no seats, so I have to stand in the corridor with my case ( you then get a seat at Telford ) Also trains are often cancelled at Birmingham ( eg: Chester train on Friday 31st Oct. at around 4:00pm leaving peole not knowing what was happening ) I could go on & on but I feel I have wasted enough time complaining in the past and nothing ever gets done !
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People are not crushed into trains like cattle.
Cattle are not crushed in transport as regulations exist to protect them.
Such regulations do not exist for people.
I am a regular, at least once a week, commuter to London. The train service from Shrewsbury to Wolverhampton/Birmingham is so bad that I do not use it. Overcrowding, cancelled trains, poor timetable.
I use the train to Crewe and get to London from there.
There is no hope of people using public transport when that which is provided is as bad as that from Shrewsbury.
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It’s bad, very bad. There was no room even to move on one occasion, but the waiter still tried to come round with the trolley and was exasperated by passengers being in the way!
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Although not a regular commuter I did once have the misfortune to need to travel from Telford down to London via the train system. We paid over £85 for our 2 tickets and when our train pulled in to Telford it was that crowded that not only I, but my disabled companion had to stand all the way down to London. Upon our return three days later, firstly we stood for an hour, then once some passengers had alighted we finally found a seat, some distance apart. This train then stopped in Oxford, and an announcement stated that due to adverse weather conditions (it was windy) they were terminating the train there in Oxford and asked everyone to dismount from the train. There was no Virgin rep to speak to regarding compensation to be found, not one single train running in any direction and what’s more no other public transport could be found to aid us in our return to Telford. Eventually we were lucky enough to get hold of someone that lived in Telford to come and collect us from the station and bring us back home. Since then I have tried to get some of my money back, but been ignored. I gave up trying and will never EVER use british rail again, all my future journeys down south will be via car or coach. (I could not help but notice that one of the abandoned travellers from our train was severely mentally disabled, and not one person made any attempt to explain to him why this had happened, nor make any attempt to find him safe passage to his destination. I dread to think what happened to that poor chap.) Funnily enough, even though they apparently stopped our train due to the weather, it seemed to be safe enough for the train to turn around and make it’s return journey back to London (obviously the bad weather was only in one direction!)
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the saturday morning train to Brum from Telford is diabolical! I had to stand the entire journey! I am disabled so I have to use crutches, yet no one gave up their seat for me. I’d write to my MP but I doubt it that this high on his agenda
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There has to be some health and safety regulation that says that there is a maximum amount allowed on the train? More often than I would like to recall I have been squeezed onto a train with around 15 people breathing each others air in the gangway.If there was a fire or accident god help us!
It is disgraceful that we pay so much for public transport and are urged to be more green and use it yet can’t even get on the train!
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Would it be too cynical to forecast that there will be extra carriages on this service for the next two or three weeks, until the visit is over?
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It is all very well Mr Hoon visiting but I am sure he will not get an accurate picture. Arriva and London Midland will no doubt be aware of when he is coming and Hey Presto! extra coaches will magically appear on the services
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I have regularly used the trains between Shrewsbury and Birmingham.
You can hear the sighs when you see the train near the station and people realise there are just two carriages again.
Going home is far far worse though. I have been left on the platform in Wolverhampton before now when you just can’t cram any more people in, and train cancellations are so frequent you expect on train each afternoon not to be running.
It’s a disgrace.
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The people commenting above have hit the nail on the head. Arriva Trains Wales and London Midland are DISGRACEFUL service providers. I completley agree with the ‘idon’tbelieveit’, seeing the train come round the corner at Telford with only 2 carriages and then comparing it to the amount of people on the platform is ridiculous. Then everyone piles on and stands where they can. Why is it so difficult to get an extra carriade? Occasionally i have seen three and it has not been half as packed as it usually is. Worse than the overcrowdedness is definitiely the timetable/timekeeping. It has to be the worst in the Country. Sort it out!
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I travel in to Central London about once per month. I now go by car for two reasons. First, it’s cheaper to pay for fuel, the M6 toll charge, the congestion charge and parking. Second, my car doesn’t get cancelled, unlike the 14.30 from Euston. Two trainloads of people duly piled on to the 15.30. At Wolverhampton I was relieved when a relatively quiet train pulled in at the platform for the continuation to Telford. That was short lived; the train was leaking some sort of fluid onto the tracks so we all had to get off again and catch the next train – which was already crowded. People were crammed into the aisles. It was also an ancient thing with no air conditioning and no apparent means of ventilation, so it was stifling in there. Add to that the fact that we finally arrived in Telford in a rainstorm – and there’s no shelter as you exit the carriage – it’s no wonder I don’t go near the things.
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We definitely need more carriages, especially at peak times.
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Had to travel by train from Birmingham to Shrewsbury last Saturday evening. Lots of cancelled trains so when one finally arrived there were hundreds of people on it. Standing room only until Telford. That was my first experience of a train in over a year. Not good.
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Support the Wrexham Shrewsbury train if you can and travel in peace and comfort to Marylebone.
Come December it will also be quicker
Tell Mr Hoon that these trains should be allowed to stop at Wolverhampton & Birmingham New St at all times
That should make Arrriva sit up.
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I think Jake has got the most pertinant point so far. For the majority of journeys (especially for “one-offs”) it is cheaper and more reliable to drive even after accounting for fuel, ware & tear, parking, charges and traffic jams. Not only is it cheaper and more reliable, but you always get a nice comfortable seat, plenty of space to yourself and your own choice of radio station (or CD) in the background.
Also given that I can almost guarantee that extra carriages and/or the visiting MPs experience will not during the busiest times, I am not holding any hopes for public transport in the region.
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Oh Come on Mr Hoon – IF you REALLY wanted to find out what it’s really like , why don’t you just come up and try it unannounced?
I have, in the 40 odd years I’ve been working, seen countless “management and QA visits to company premises, and guess what …
THE BIG CLEAN UP BEFORE THE BOSSES ARRIVE !!
And this will be NO DIFFERENT!!
I just CANNOT see how the service operators, who know precisely how bad it is, are going to allow an MP to see the truth !!
We shall see !!!
WHY OH WHY doesn’t .. just for once, someone do the obvious .. and make a surprise, and unannounced visit? Just imagine Geoff Hoon sharing a crowded carriage with us all?
He could actually ask us directly what we think … what a lovely thought !!
i.e “the mystery shopper” ??
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Notwork Fail have gained £1.6bn profits, so why should they care if the service is dross?
Better than that. In Feb they were fined £14m because of their staggering ineptitude at Rugby. Disrupted Christmas and New Year for
thousands. Weekend closures continuing until at least 2014 (not that there’s all that much new about weekend closures, it’s the scale of
them).But for presiding over this mind-boggling incompetence the CEO gets
a bonus of $305k.
Here’s a reply to my complaint on the train overcrowding situation that I received recently from a Stephanie Mendez, Customer Relations Team Leader for Arriva Trains Wales:
“As far as we can we try to match the level of accommodation on our services with the demand for them but it is not always possible to do so especially during peak periods. We are aware that …large numbers of passengers may wish to travel and to this end our train planners do reallocate coaches whenever and wherever they can.
We do have some additional capacity on certain sections of the network but, I am afraid that it is not possible to cover all services. Whilst I appreciate how uncomfortable this can be for passengers and how inconvenient it is, the passenger does have the right to board that particular service or to wait for an alternate which may be less busy.”
In other words, you don’t have to get on the train!
She continues,
“On your question of checking tickets, I am sure that you will understand that there are occasions when the Conductor is not able to pass through the train in order to do so and if the train was as busy as you suggested and I have no reason to doubt this then he would not have been in a position to do so.”
Get this:
“On the issue of Health and Safety I can assure you that passenger safety is of paramount importance to us and indeed we have an excellent safety record.
The Railway Inspectorate have also investigated the issues arising from crowding and have deemed that this is an issue of comfort rather than safety and that crowded trains do not pose any more of a danger, in fact if there were to be an accident this would mean that passengers are less likely to be thrown around the carriages.”
So passengers packed in like sardines are actually safer! I suppose it is safer to be crammed in surrounded by soft objects. If
you weren’t, you’d be cannoning off the walls and the furniture when they hit something! Official.I think the way to approach this is that when you next reach your destination on an Arriva “train” that isn’t full, you brandish this letter and demand that the train not be allowed to continue on safety grounds.
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all trains, gone i think. Everyone either get a closer job, move n get a vehical. I will NEVER use horrid public transport again. No room at all. Everyone is just crammed on.
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I guess things haven’t changed in the past 50 years. The old steam trains were always late and that is why I road my bike to Wolverhampton instead of getting the 6.30am (Salop to Paddington) train which stopped at Wolverhampton and New Street, Brum.
Huw – the British rail system needs a complete overhaul not just a few extra carriages.
Why not try learning something from continental systems – for example Switzerland where the trains are clean, reliable, inexpensive – and always on time?
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I am extremely dissapointed with the arriva wales train service. i returned from maidenhead to shrewsbury on the 2nd nov. i got the 6.24pm train and was meant to arrive at shrewsbury at 22.14pm. i was told at reading to get of and get a connecting train. i got off . and was then told i should of stayed on that train to get of at oxford. i had to wait. i got to oxford. had to wait . got to birmingham the trai had to wait 45 minutes before it left for wolverhampton. finally got to wolverhampton and it stated on the screens next service to shrewsbury 22.37 – BUS so i asked the man told me half past 11. i went to ask wat time i would get home about 1 am i was told…whilst he was telling other people for connecting trains theyd have to wait in the station tll 5.38am its disgusting…but wat is the most disgusting thing is… i was promised there would be a train or another coach waiting for us at telford…arrived there wasnt…nothing not even any train staff. the coach driver who dropped us off said it wasnt his problem and drove off.after me paying £47.10 for a ticket. im a 20yr old girl…if it wasnt for 2 other kind people there i would of been stranded in telford. they paid for a taxi to shrewsbury. I know nothing will be done about it because thats…JUST THE WAY IT IS.
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not that old chestnut about the reliability of Swiss Trains.
Trains in Switzerland run on time because they travel at no more than 60 MPH and have long arrival and departure times at platforms.
If Swiss Rail ran the Crewe London line, the current 1:50 journey would take well over 4 hours.
You can provide a very punctual service, but only by running very slow trains.
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I travel by train every week day between Telford and Wolverhampton. While certain evangelical Christians occasionally warn us of a coming apocalypse, sometimes while on those trains I believe it has already happened.
Last week, for example, the 16:48 train from Wolverhampton to Telford, on which I usually (when it bothers to turn up) return home, was half an hour late several times – in fact, there was only one day when it was “on time”, though that was several minutes after the scheduled time anyway. On the Friday, despite there being four coaches on the train, we were crammed in like nuns in a mini, and I was crushed up against the train driver’s door with my arm half-way up into the air the entire trip.
As for the train on the way into Wolverhampton, the 07:09 train is usually acceptable, though I have never managed to find a seat on it, but it occasionally turns up *and* leaves early (which was shocking the first time it happened), leaving numerous late arrivals bemused. It does once in a while turn up late, sometimes VERY late, though this is usually due to other trains being delayed ahead of it.
And if you have the nerve to try and catch the 07:29 train, I can safely say that it has *never* arrived on time in the year or two I’ve been using the service. It is mostly six minutes late, to the point where everybody on the platform can actually recite the automated announcement before it even happens, though is frequently more late than that – this morning, for example, it arrived at Telford almost fifteen minutes late, and due to a speed limit on the line it finally pulled into Wolverhampton twenty minutes late.
The 07:29 train is particularly renowned for being ram-packed, and I would suggest the MP use it when it has had two of its carriages seconded for ‘more important’ trains. It is frequent to the point that every time it is delayed by more than six minutes, we all dread the possibility of seeing only two carriages trundle down the line. As this train also stops at the smaller stations on the way, on a journey that lasts almost half an hour, the level of overcrowding is disgusting. There are tales of people actually collapsing in hot weather as Arriva trains do not appear to have air conditioning either.
As I go home tonight, I expect to once again be left standing in the cold on Wolverhampton station waiting for a train that has been delayed for some reason. The frequency with which it actually turns up on time is so low that I come to expect a long wait, and even leave work later these days to save the waiting around.
I expect services to improve *dramatically* for one day, though. That being the day Geoff Hoon comes to tour the locals. That’ll be nice for a change, though it won’t last long and nothing will be done.
Somebody mentioned the idea of ‘mystery shoppers’ – that isn’t a bad idea, and I reckon it should be quite regular. Anything to alleviate the misery…
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The service between Shrewsbury and Birmingham (via Wellington) is truly diabolical at times. Late or cancelled trains, overcrowding that would be illegal if it were livestock in transit and in the evenings yobs take over the carriages.
The route from Manchester to Cardiff, running through Shropshire north-south, on the other hand is almost always good. And the other routes in Shropshire aren’t too bad either.
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As a Monday to Friday traveller on the Shrewsbury to B.ham line,I can agree with all the comments. This morning the 08.20 from Albrighton did not arrive, two trains went through without stopping and finallyI got on the regular 09.15 after waiting for an hour in the cold. I am thkinking now about buying a car
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Tony (#19), when you say the rail system needs ‘a complete overhaul’, do you mean that it should be re-nationalised, and that privatisation has not worked?
What EXACTLY do you think is wrong with the system as it stands, Tony?
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labour cant run trains, we need more carriages and lower taxes now, and only conservatives will deliver this
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My job is currently at risk of redundancy. If I lose it,I will almost certainly have to take temporary work in a city until I can find a more local job. I will be looking for work in manchester, not birmingham as the shrewsbury to manchester trains are far more reliable and less crowded. Am I too cynical in thinking this is due to welsh assembly pressure, the cardiff to manchester line being a key part of the welsh transport system?
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Incidentally, when I said: “As I go home tonight, I expect to once again be left standing in the cold on Wolverhampton station waiting for a train that has been delayed for some reason.”
I was right! Half an hour late again, and I was standing up all the way home!
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tory boy – more carriages and more trains means higher taxes or higher fares, you cant have your cake and eat it, which is why no one trusts the tories on the economy and on tax, you cannot cut taxes when theres no money to spend
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John Boy, the cost now of a journey from Shrewsbury to London is now over £150 and on my last journey I stood all the way to Milton Keynes going there and to Birmingham on the way back. (Although Virgin did offer a refund for their part of the journey for overcrowding – not sure why Arriva don’t do this!)Why should we pay extra for more carriages when we should be getting a ‘service’ at current fares?!
I would use the Wrexham/London trains but they can’t get me into London early enough for my meetings.
The current Shrewsbury/Birmingham train service is overpriced and not fit for purpose
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Why is the article talking about “from Telford to Birmingham New Street”? What about the times eighty or more people are waiting at Wellington station for either the 7.50 or the 8.00 service from Shrewsbury to Birmingham? I see this regularly, waiting on the other platform to go to Shrewsbury (where there are generally about 30-40 people waiting for the Chester train in term time).
The real issue is not the overcrowding, however, but the insane delays that hit many services. This is especially in the evening. Anyone ever tried to catch the 17.22 at Shrewsbury to Birmingham? You can be forgiven if you think of it as being the 17.30, the 17.40 or the 18.00-terminates-at-Wolverhampton.
Admittedly in the winter months it tends to be better (right kind of rain on the line?) but during the summer its a nightmare because of all the delays.
What sums it up for me is that ATW’s official stance on ‘on time’ is ‘within ten minutes’ of timetable departure time. In contrast, London Marylebone station doesn’t even have an option on its boards for ‘late’, because trains I’ve seen there rarely are.
The reason people won’t leave their cars at home is because buses and trains in rural areas are generally not taken seriously by the companies running them and therefore don’t provide a complete enough service for the people. (Although they still cost plenty to ride).
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#27 Sarah & #17 Dave Harris.
Following numerous e mails to ATW which were largely either ignored or answered in gobbledygook, I went (unannounced) to ATW’s head office in Cardiff last October.
I showed an e mail at reception, was ushered into a side office and eventually met by a customer services official, Stephanie who greeted me with, ” Hello, I’m Stephanie, I’m Welsh and Welsh is my first language” I suggested she look at my surname on the e mail (Jones), oops!!!
I suggested that ATW were putting all their resources into the Cardiff area, and ignoring the rest of their franchised network. Lo and behold she agreed and went on to admit that the Welsh Assembly dictated what they (ATW) did and where any additional units were deployed to alleviate overcrowding, Valleys area, of course.
She promised me a written response to the points I had raised. Needless to say, I am still waiting, some 13 months later!!
Arriva, as a company had already lost both their Northern and Merseyrail franchises through incompetence prior to being awarded what they now have. I believe, had it not been for the Welsh Assembly, they would have been stripped of the ATW franchise some time ago.
Finally, last Christmas Eve, I was on an ATW Aberystwyth service which failed outside Wolverhampton. A very late running ATW service going towards Wolverhampton pulled alongside and passengers were made to ‘walk the plank’ between trains with no staff to assist on our train. I contacted the ORR, who ‘had words’ with ATW.
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Since i have a local job i get the train from Wellington to Telford monday-friday for the past 4 years (not had need for the car). I catch the 7:02 train from Wellington and i would say 80% of the time (over a year) they run two carriages and it is always packed by the time the people have got on from Wellington. The same applies for coming back, 2 carriages and packed by the time it gets into Telford Central. More rolling stock is needed. Ticket prices keep going up but we dont seem to see any improvements. I wonders which rail excutives are getting nice pay rises and bonuses for the appalling work they are doing.
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Huw,
Oh Mr. Porter what shall I do?
I wanted to go to Birmingham
but they put me on to Crewe.
I remember (Marie Lloyd?) singing that many years ago and things don’t seem to ‘ve changed much considering Rpt Barrington-Black has to get to London via Crewe. Kinda like going via Basel on a journey from Zurich to Geneva.
What is wrong with the system? The last time I arrived in London (from Van.) my wife and I left our luggage at Euston intending to get a train out the next day. That evening there was a rail strike and we spent 3 days in London unable to leave because of our luggage being held captive by British Rail. When we did retrieve out bags we were asked to pay for 4 day’s storage. Welcome to Merry old England! Too funny for words.
I have no personal experience of today’s travel in Britain, however my daughter was recently stranded in Manchester (on her way to Crewe) because the entire system closed down for – Christmas day.
Both state run and private enterprise have (had)considerable problems – the criticism of travellers should be heard and hopefully things will change for the better.
And one day Britain’s transportation will have the same reputation that Switzerland has.
Though I’m not going to place any bets on it.
And …oops…that was rode not road…………).
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I commute from Telford to Birmingham every day and face problems everyday. Trains are regularly delayed or cancelled. One of the things I really hate is when a delayed train is terminated at Wolverhampton rather than going on to Birmingham. This announcement is never made until the train pulls into Wolverhampton. These trains are always over crowded, so a large number of people then head for the platform where the next Birmingham train is due, joining even more people already waiting. I then have the choice of joining the crush when the train comes in, or waiting until the next one and being even later to work. Coming back is no better, I always arrive home late and fed up. I love my home to Telford but I am seriously considering moving closer to Birmingham so I no longer have to spend my life waiting for trains, standing on packed trains, and feeling stressed by my experience of commuting.
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I am currently filling in a complaints form as yesterday I went to catch the 8.41am from Telford to Birmingham. I plus around 30 other people didn’t even get on it as there was 2 packed carriages and when it pulled into Telford it already had people standing in the walkway… a load more then got on and it was like a game of twister! I am not impressed and would this be acceptable on a plane or a packed car? I think not! Do something about it, before a major accident occurs.
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