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National Service is a good solution
Friday 18th July 2008, 8:30AM BST.
I was determined to offer a light-hearted romp this week, writes blogger Emma Suddaby, but I’m afraid the whirlwind of publicity surrounding youth violence around the country means everyone has their own solution . . . Mine? National Service, of course.
Now, once upon a time, that was a very unfashionable opinion indeed. But lately, I hear more and more voices joining in the call for the Government to consider it.
It should not be seen as a punishment, however. That would put a very negative connotation on to what I think should be a really positive experience for kids.
Think about it for a moment. At a time when we’re seeing the breakdown of the family, with all that that entails, the rigid framework employed by the Forces, of taking the child and turning him by education and achievement into a man, seems to be the perfect solution.
While we’re mourning the loss of respect, boundaries, motivation and achievement among our youth, the Forces have been in the business of instilling those very qualities into raw recruits for generations.
More than ever, our country really does need us. Yet, with our increasingly cosmopolitan population, many kids don’t really understand the identity of our great country. We are losing our sense of self and, along with it, our patriotism.
I’m convinced many of the issues facing our children stem from this lack of belonging and if we don’t step in to provide them with something good, strong and positive, then gangs will continue to offer unpalatable alternatives.
My suggestion, though it certainly needs fine-tuning, would be that each child, on reaching 18, would serve at least one full year in a branch of the Armed Forces, receiving full basic training along the way.
After a year, the recruit could be offered an enhanced package should he or she wish to continue. All the training and experience gained during that first year would count towards the recruit’s subsequent career, position and salary.
Of course, many would probably leave at that point to start a life on civvy street. But crucially, they would have gained maturity and life experience along the way.
Life is a balance. a symmetry, there’s always a yin to the yang. When things go wrong, it is usually because something is out of kilter, somewhere along the line. This works with every level of problem you consider. It is a universal truth.
With this in mind, perhaps utilising our nation’s greatest asset, the superb British Armed Forces, would work wonders.
Forces would vanquish our greatest threat – the gangs of unhappy youngsters waging casual war on our streets – and empower those who are sucked into their grip. It is not such a radical or, indeed, old-fashioned solution.
Goodness knows, the little tykes who terrorise law abiding citizens could do with a bit of sergeant-major-style advice. Our overstretched Forces, of course, are sorely in need of the extra funding that such a scheme would bring.
The way things are going, what on earth do we have to lose?
- Inspirational Emma Suddaby shares her ” highs, lows – and various murky places inbetween” – with her blog. Emma, a finalist in the 2007 Shropshire Star Woman of the Year competition, was diagnosed with aggressive, destructive rheumatoid arthritis at the age of 22. She later won a dream flying scholarship with the charity Flying Scholarships for the Disabled and now holds a National Private Pilot’s Licence.
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Couldn’t disagree more. Why inflict these types on our professional armed services? There is absolutely no evidence to suggest it would decrease violence. In fact, in Mexico where I live, service personnel are recruited into drug cartels as paid assassins and bodyguards.
Yours, Jim Hatch (18 years in TAVR)
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hear hear, i agree, though a pacisfist, i could not kill a fly but i think all kids should do the outdoor stuff and do community work, i think even if the army run it, it doesnt have to be about killing and guns, the kids could learn all sorts and have fitness and positive role models too, lets bring it back, a non military National Service to your community, be it litter picking or whatever, its just a compulsary version of cub scouts bascially, its what all kids need to keep them off the streets
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In principle it may sound like a good idea, but I do not agree with it. Firstly, it will include those who have done nothing wrong and are law abiding people. Secondly, at a time when 50% of our armed forces have considered quitting, it will take just one stroke of a pen for these men/women to be sent off for another war. I am sure the wealthy will be able to negotiate an opt-out for their children. This youth violence is starting earlier in life and criminals are getting younger. I would personally like to see parents punished if the criminals are under-16 and the guilty given increased sentences served alongside hard labour for some particular offences.
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This is a well argued case. It should certainly attract comment and provoke debate. I agree entirely with the rationale, there is no doubt of a need to find some method of instilling better citizenship skills and promoting a sense of national identity amongst our young, we have two huge barriers to the concept of re-introducing national service, though. In the first instance, the government has consistently failed to properly fund the professional armed forces we have at present, despite committing them to major operations. The land and building assets of the MOD are being sold off piecemeal. Despite heavy taxation, much of it new, Alistair Darling is still borrowing billions, mostly to fund our membership of the EU and thus help to subsidize things like Greek farmers growing tobacco. This government has it’s priorities all wrong and would never go for such a radical idea. Secondly, with the Empire and mothballed MOD estates all gone, where would we accomodate and train large numbers of new forces personnel? Would it be wise to dilute our extremely professional volunteer forces? Sadly, I look at other countries and say resoundingly “No”.
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so basiclly, what you are saying is after every 18yr old has finished school, throw them in the army! What about the ones who dont go around like lunatics and actually behave and get jobs and look after people around them! I wish the paper would get someone better to write stories!
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I agree entirely with what the lady is saying but perhaps its not a good idea to tar every young person with the same brush. Those that want to follow there chosen carrier path let them do so, however those that choose to do nothing but visit the job center and claim job seekers allowance week in week out these are the little tykes for want of a better word they are the ones that should be targeted. The money saved could then be ploughed into the armed forces but Im sure all libral do gooders would put a stop to it..but its a good thought
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Hackneyed, right-wing nonsense.
Why on earth should we waste resources forcing the vast majority of our young-people who are bright, well-motivated and well-behaved through a lot of mindless square-bashing and marching up and down?
We send far too many young people to University these days, and I certainly don’t support ‘noddy’ degrees, but the idea of forcing people to join the forces is ridiculous – why do you think this was abandoned in the ’50s? Because it wasn’t working, it was deeply resented by many of the people forced to go through it and who wasted two years of their lives doing it, and above all we needed armed forces who wanted to do that sort of work, leaving those with other aptitudes to do what they were good at.
I agree that there is an opportunity gap for young people – I’d sooner see much better opportunities for vocational training – not time wasted playing soldiers – we’ve got enough Royals doing that!
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I think its an excellent idea! :)
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In fact emma its brilliant! i have 3 sons none are badly behaved but still theres thousands out there on our streets that are. National service turns boys into men. It’s about time our teens grew up a little theyre out of control.
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I say leave the kids alone, its you so called adults and government that are the problem. I mean if the government stopped to think why things are like this then you might find a solution. I mean have you been on the street, have you seen the things going on or have you just heard what other say.
Number one there has always been stabbings and gun crime. but the media are just attracting attention to it.
Number two — Do you want to know why the police cant do anything . . . its because they are seen to be the enemy.
Number three — Do you actually beleive the statistics ? i statistics and numbers have always been manipulated to benefit either the media or the government.
Number four — Why do you talk about opening youth clubs etc etc when really all you need to do is more play areas, more green areas and more ball courts (FOR FREE) oh and dont forget lighting. people say these attract criminal types. Where else do you want them ? on the streets or down the courts ?
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Not a good idea.
Iraq, Afghanistan. How many killed from the ranks of those who volounteered?
So she proposes the goverenment force youngsters off to the real risk of being killed?
Or is the suggestion only volounteers are killed, those conscripted wouldn’t be sent over seas?
She needs to put her brain in gear before putting pen to paper.
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I’ve been saying this for years! Young people would benefit from this hugely – learning life skills and to treat others with respect. Of course there will still be a minority who just want to cause trouble, but I think the majority of young lads (and increasingly girls) want a sense of belonging and direction which this would give them. Bring it on, for the sake of our future generations.
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“taking the child and turning him by education and achievement into a man” – him?!? man?!? So is this a suggestion for just the male half of the population? That’ll obviously be because young ladies are all so perfect and mature and well-behaved already?!?
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Sadly – I agree, we’ve got to that point.
- but never a conscription that would force them to kill people.
I think it would give structure back to young people who’re potentially another lost generation – the awful attitude of “wan it, cos I deserve it and don’t wanna do anything for it” which seems to have been inspired by the media who abrogate responsibility for what they say as if they’re not actually part of the community. (I know its not only them..)
What worries me about this is what happens after? Dumped back into a society with nothing for them to do (again). It would need that thinking about and not just the budget-filler type thing they do now and take them away when things get tight.
To be honest – a fully funded and ring-fenced youth club system with no way for councils to steal the money for other things would solve a lot of problems. Get kids back into community.
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i agree like Jake ‘the snake’ (wasn;t he a pro wrestler?) that it would be good to do a national service programme for say all 12-18 year olds, just maybe one weeknight a week and one weekend a month, a bit like the Territorial army, this would address our obesity crises and allow alot of good voluntary work to be done, but Jake is correct it should not be all about guns and army stuff, the example I would hold up would be ”the Duke of Edinburgh Award”, in my opinion, the thing to do would be to make the DoEA a mandatory thing, all kids cannot leave school without say 5 GCSEs and a DoE award
I think the Labour governments idea to keep kids in school (or f/t training on the job) til 18 is a wonderful scheme too. Well done on that, it will really help socially and economically to improve this country.
Lets keep young people busy, its crazy they go to school for only about 6 hours a day, then have huge summer holidays, where they loiter in the park and on the street corners.
Also this links back to the teachers on strike story, the youth of today AND their teachers, have it too easy, they need more to occupy them.
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The liberal elite have produced this mess, the youth could not cope, they have socially engineered a culture of failure and social decline.
The country needs real leadership, not liars and cowards.
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Its a key thing – keeping people busy – since the loss of mass-employment, heavy industries this problem has been developing. The market is not the economic tool to turn this around, as it’s helped get us where we are now. It seems ok for markets to have global mobility but let people follow the jobs! no chance. So anywhere where people can’t/wont move or where small industrial activity makes little overall difference (eg small business startups) then that country is doomed to what we have.
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i agree with most that national service should be non military, and should improve employability
Perhaps i may suggest it could be used to help reduce our tax burden by getting them to do the councils job of litter picking, tree planting etc
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Why is everyone so down on the youths. Its the adults that have failed them not the other way around and now the adults are trying to shift blame onto the youth by saying its there faults.
ok lets work out who is to blame.
1. Most youth projects have always been rubbish, and now closed.
2. Most green areas are either closed off or have signs saying no ball games.
3. Most youth that come from low income backgrounds have nowhere to go because of cost
eg. how much is the ice rink, cinema, swimming etc etc.
4. Schools have always been prisons not to educate but to keep the kids out of trouble. Teachers are not interested anymore.
My fear is that the media is collaborating with the government to make people want to bring in national service by concerntrating on stabbings.
As i said in a previous post, stabbings have been going on for centurys, same with youth crime.
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That will whip them into shape!!
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I doubt that compulsory National Service at the age of 18 would work. What about those law abiding, hard working youngsters who want to head off to University after studying hard to get good GCSE and A Level results? I doubt that these are the feral running around causing untold mayhem.
I agree that something needs to be done and I agree with some of the comments already posted here – what about community projects Young people could be told to become involved in a community project from a younger age – say 14 or 15 – they would learn valuable life skills at the same time helping out their community.
I think National Service would be seen as a punishment more than a deterrent.
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you forget in the EC now, we can move countries at will so if i were 18 and the government said join army, i would just move to ireland or some where without such a restriction on my civil liberties, silly law
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Excellent idea. You clearly have an honours degree in binge thinking!
Let’s teach them to use weapons more effectively. And to organise themselves along para-military lines. If they are lucky, they might get to practice on the population of a foreign country.
No doubt our armed forces will cover up any non-sanctioned violence with their normal efficiency – viz Deepdale.
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None of this would be necessary if we still had REAL punishments for the minority who are anti-social or criminal. Vandals, thieves and druggies should get jail, the old-style Borstal,or a good thrashing. Muderers using knives, etc, should hang. The modern army is an elite technical force that has no use for uneducated, disrespectful no-hopers that only want to hang about in bus shelters whingeing that they have nothing to do. Dont waste taxpayers money on them.
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I do not want my children to go into the Military forces, thank you.
Not all children get into trouble and cause problems.
The children that hang around on corners and get in to trouble are bored. There is nothing for them to do. Every thing has been closed down or made too expensive. They do not need to be “occupied” they need to find something to interest them, not just to keep them busy.
They have gone through an education system that is dumbing them down and making them believe that they have no prospects. These children are vulnerable to exposure to the military, they will be ‘encouraged’ to become canon fodder, they will see no other way as this will be the only way presented to them. Their only prospect.
The problems we have within society at the moment is caused by Government interference in family life and hysteria fuelled by the media. Our rights as parents are being chipped away. Our children are being taken from us earlier and earlier. They now want our under fives to be educated to a curriculum. Children need to stay with their parents not put into hours of childcare and prisons (sorry, I mean schools). They want to keep them until they are 18. Yet the results show that this only makes things worse. Elsewhere formal education starts at 6/7 years of age and the children are better for it. Our children are becoming institutionalised.
The Government will probably be happy to re-instate national service, because people of the nation will demand it. But the people do not realise that they have been manipulated by the media and a Government that has another agenda.
I do not want my children to become canon fodder.
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has the star got the message yet? She is not a good writer, her ideas are crackpot.
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As an ex-National Serviceman in a top class corps and serving in a Guards Brigade, my training for the first six months was hard, cruel, degrading and brutal. Thick, illiterate NCOs and “hooray Henry” type officers ensured a regime that was, by any standards, almost unliveable and one complained (in fact one didn’t complain) at one’s peril, and yet we survived. The vast majority did not resent it, one regarded it as a “right of passage” that all. except the “conchies” and the wimps accepted as a necessary evil.
It was a great leveller, it would turn the most evil, seemingly hard thug into a jibbering, weeping idiot and it would turn a soft, weeping idiot into a man. If any person who did National Service says that there were no times that he could have crawled into a cupboard and cried during his training, then he is a liar. Even the most junior Lance Jack (one stripe) ran a reign of terror over recruits and as for the Regimental Police and the real Military Police, one trembled in one’s boots at the mere sight of them.
What I went through, I look back on with pride and great amusement (now I am out of it) but I would not wish it on anyone. There are other punishments that I can think of that would cure the criminals and dross in our broken society and the Services are not one of them.
Anybody can be forgiven for coming up with all sorts of solutions to cure these people and it seems the only lot without a clue are Gordon Brown, Jaqui Smith, the whole pathetic bunch of New Labour and the soft liberal left who have held sway over the judicial system and the treatment of offenders for far to long.
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Oh, come on Rupert – controversial perhaps, but crack pot? Is this not a good debate and hasn’t she done well to spark so many comments? As for the Armed Forces bashers amongst you – keep taking your good fortunes for granted. Truth be told, it’s cavalier attitudes like yours that have caused most of the problems within our society today and yet in unhappier circumstances, your hypocrisy would be as limitless as is my abiding contempt for you.
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I have been saying that they should bring back National Service for years. I have 5 kids all grown. Both I and them were brought up in other countries, so have seem many systems at work. There are a lot of good points for and against it, but nothing can be as bad as things are now. Look at countries that still have a form of NS, they get jobs, go to university. They don’t all get sent off to war, but they do have a lower crime rate, and better family and community dynamics. Someone mentioned having parent”do the time”. It’s not there crime, thats the problem right there. The kids are not being held accountable. I don’t know the solution, but if something isn’t done soon our country’s future will be very bleak. To think of how it has fallen apart in the last 100 years. we used to “rule world”(a little extreme maybe), but now we can’t even control our kids.
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Is Emma (I take it has never served in the armed forces herself) aware that this would be catch all for ALL people of a certain age – say 18~20 (?), not just those of a criminal intent – so not just those who have a certain dress sense (chavs and hoodies), but well behaved sensitive Johnny aswell. Also – anyone entering the armed forces is subject to military law (Queen’s Regulations), and could be punished or imprisioned for quite minor offences – dependent upon the commanding officer’s mind set. Then there is the obvious flaw in her plan of where do you put all these national serviceman, with training to keep them oocupied, and often a long way from home, with limited leave – being square bashed by sadistic sergeants…….get real, why should the majority of well behaved and working young people starting out on their careers be subjected to miliary service because of the few? If you want to punish those few for ciminal behaviour – then there are laws in place – and the police should use them. Juts because some one is in uniform doesn’t mean thay will good citizens, or not turn their new found skills to the wrong use…(Ex-R.A.F – with 13 years service)
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A ideal solution – lets train the little terrors how to use guns and knives properly
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Birch em, thats what i say, teach them some respect… I remember when all this was fields.
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i see a common theme hear – national service but non military is popular, meanwhile food waste and food prices are a problem, and old people are struggling with gas bills – how about getting all 15-18 year olds to be conscipted into a kind of community land army, growing food on allotments and going round giving it out as meal on wheels to the poor and insulating old folks lofts ni their spare time??? A good idea huh?
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Spencer – there’s no doubt in my mind that if anyone who was stopped and searched by the police, and found to be in unlawful possession of a knife or drugs (personal use quantity) was immediately whisked off to the police station and birched by the Duty Sergeant, AND given a dvd copy of the event to share with their pals, there would very rapidly be a drastic decrease not just in knife and drug crimes, but in all the peripheral offences associated with them. It would be deeply unpleasant and degrading, and the human rights champions would be up in arms, but the misery of knives, drugs and youth crime within our society is not be challenged effectively and it’s getting worse. Birching would be radical, practical and totally impossible because we lack good, gutsy political leadership plus, the legal industry would suffer absolute apoplexy and spare no effort to defeat any such threat to its capacity for wealth creation.
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yeah that’s just what we need, teen lots trained to use guns!!! just makes them more dangerous
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I left Ellesmere in 1953 for 5 years in the RAF and never regretted a minute of it. I met lads from all over the country who became good friends and we looked after each other whatever the situation. To say it makes boys into men is perfectly true. During square bashing at Bridgnorth I saw a big 6ft lad crying in his bunk having been away from home for the first time and amognst strangers. Come passing out parade he was there with the rest of us marching with his rifle on his shoulder along with the rest of us ready to face the world. Bring it back I say.
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One of the TV Channels has the idiocy and efrontery to put out programmes purporting to be a take-off of National Service life. What a joke they are as much like NS as the Boy Scouts can be compared to the 22nd SAS Regiment. As for the reputed “fierce” NCOs in these programmes, one word sums them up “pathetic”.
Whilst totally disagreeing that social mis-fits. thugs, criminals and dross should be put into the Services alongside our existing military volunteers, I do hold that our prisons could learn something from the “old” (and I stress “old”) military systems. If our Prisons were a take-off of the old Military Corrective Establishment at Colchester or the Maximum Secure Military Prison at Shepton Mallet and our Prison Officers were a take-off of the Miliary Provost Staff Corps who manned them (and ran a reign of terror in them), I could guarantee that few criminals would wish to go to Prison more than once.
The “social” regime in our Prisons and the “social worker” approach of our Prison and Probation Services share much responsibility for re-offending rates – if indeed, offenders finally make it to the mockeries that we now call prisons. Only two weeks ago if we can recall, a person with 78 previous convictions was sentenced to a couple of months in prison. No guessing who we have to blame for this state of affairs.
One thing is certain, it’s not the ordinary decent man in the street or our Councils or the Police, it’s those who sit in London and administer Government over us and think up daft Quangos like the “Sentencing Guidlines Committee” and the Judges and Magistrates who are purile enough not to voice a word of protest in having their powers removed.
Only when offenders are easily, unquestionably and immediately sent to Prison and Prisons return to being places of punishment and shame rather than the “holiday camps” that they are will crime and criminals reduce to a level where people can walk the streets without fear or concern.
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“Bring back National Service – I’ve been saying it for years and I’m only 36!!! My views are that when you leave school at 15/16 you are given three options – either stay on in education for a few more years, get a job or join the forces, girls aswell as boys, it won’t do them any harm. They don’t have to be sent off to the front line, there are lot’s of other things they can be doing like learning a trade, not everything in the military involves fighting you know! I can’t be doing with all the “goody too shoe” people out there who think National Service is a bad thing or any other suggestions that are made to get these people off our streets. I know not every child is bad that is why there should be a choice but if there’s nothing left for them to do then why not? It won’t solve all the street crime but it’s a step in the right direction. And why leave it ’til they’re at school leaving age? If they are found to be in trouble, instead of sending them off to these “young offenders” institutes ie: Butlin’s camps, throw them in too!!! As my mother just said – it’ll make ‘em or break ‘em!!!
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