Star’s front row seat for sporting history
- Local newspaper week
Blog: Don’t want to pay for university? Don’t go then
Wednesday 8th December 2010, 1:10PM GMT.
Students protest outside the Millbank Tower against university funding cuts
I am sure future students across Shropshire are furious at the thought of having to fork out up to £9,000 a year to go to university but there is one way of getting out of it – don’t go writes Jason Lavan.
I spent six years at university both in Ireland, where fees were minimal at the time, and here in England.
Although my debt is small, I took the decision to go to university and pay my way through it so that I could earn a better wage in the long run.
I do not believe people who opt for the workforce should have to pay for me to go to university.
I heard many students on the news saying that education is a right and not a privilege.
I agree with this, but rights also include eating, shelter and clothing and we have to pay for those too.
If you are still not convinced that students should have to pay their way, just look at the jobs section in the Guardian newspaper and compare the salaries for the jobs requiring a degree and those without.
It is there, in black and white.
People with a third level education behind them generally earn more dosh, so why should taxpayers who otherwise start work after school pay for us to go to uni and earn more money than them in the long run?
A student wears a traffic cone on his head as he protests against the cuts.
The row over the Liberal Democrats pledging one thing, while standing in the murky fields of opposition, and then delivering another, when lounging the in strawberry fields of power, is quite disgraceful.
But that is no argument for students not to pay their way and I am sure the Lib Dems will pay a hefty price at the polls for it next time round.
I sympathise with students who had aspirations of uni and believed it was not going to cost them dearly, but this is the price which has to be paid when the economy crashes.
And it is not just English students being hit hard, the Irish budget was held yesterday (TUE) and students there were hit with a hike in fees of €500 a year to €2,000.
I should point out there are also ways that students can help themselves in the long run.
While studying in England it amazed me how many students took out huge loans and overdrafts to cover the cost of rent and living, and by the latter I mean funding a fair few nights out on the tiles.
I chose not to do any of that and held two part-time jobs which paid for my rent and a few bottles of cheap plonk each week.
As I mentioned, my debt is low, but it could have been a lot higher had I chosen to go down the route of borrowing to pay for a particular lifestyle during university.
While I know all too well that students love a good old fashioned bottle throwing fest, while trying to steal a police officer’s badge to hang up beside the stolen traffic cones in their lounge, it must not be forgotten there are more pressing issues facing the wider public purse than that of tuition fees.
It is a sad reality in this climate that students will not be afforded the free-for-all of the past, and while university is not a privilege, it is a choice.
Sponsored Links
Shropshire Star on Twitter
Keep updated with the latest breaking news and content on our Twitter feed.
Lifestyle
Interactive Dining Out map
Hundreds of reviews by the Shropshire Star and Express & Star's teams to help you decide where to eat.
LIVE traffic updates
Road, rail and airport - latest
Our new, live traffic and travel updates service - check before you set out.
OUR NEW APP
Get the new Shropshire Star app
Download the Shropshire Star’s new app to your iPad or iPhone to get one week of access to our digital newspapers absolutely FREE.
shropshirestar.com
Popular sections
Useful links
I understand your point …
However, College is also a choice but the students don’t pay tuition fees for that.
Infact, they get paid (EMA Bonuses) to attend College.
Report abuse
EMA is going too.
Report abuse
Ema is ending next year.
And with a minimum of 27 thousand to pay back there will be no incentive to get a good job.
Lots of people on low wages with degrees and owing a fortune.
How stupid this all is.
Top jobs for the rich as usual.
Report abuse
The incentive is surly to pay back your debt .I agree many who go to uni get a good job but many do not reason the degree is pointless or I should say not any good for a job that pays a large salary . But then again we have plenty out there who earn good money and have never been near a uni.
Report abuse
“Top jobs for the rich as usual” – what do you mean by this? Most people don’t start out rich and work hard to climb the ladder to higher paid work. You might like to note that the higher paid pay more tax, in effect you will loose half your salary once you take into consideration, income tax, national insurance, etc. And not to mention if you are a higher rate tax payer your kids do not get EMA. Is that fair on them? Everyone should contribute to society, but a University education should not be seen as a right but a privilege.
Report abuse
I don’t think it’s correct to say that people who are rich start poor and get there through hard work. Of course, there are many in the so-called ‘squeezed middle’ who have worked hard and achieved a higher level of income as a result, and given that we have a much lower threshold for entry into higher rate tax in real terms than we used to, many of these are now higher rate taxpayers.
But there are a disproportionately large number of very wealthy people who are rich because of inherited wealth, and who get richer and richer. They pay a much lower proportion of their income in tax than ordinary working folk do, as they have numerous tax avoidance mechanisms available to them, which the ordinary PAYE taxpayer has no recourse to.
Little or nothing is being done to address the huge holes in tax revenue due from the very rich, because the government seems determined to protect them at the expense of the poor and those in the middle.
To give some idea of the extent to which the uber-wealthy distort income figures, consider this:
The average salary in the UK is c. £26,000. Yet if you earn £50,000 you are in the top 10%!
Most people are on far less than either of these amounts, so how many really very wealthy people are above that level to cause those statistical blips?
Many of them didn’t earn their riches through honest toil – they earned them simply through having lots of money in the first place.
Report abuse
This so called debt is loaned to students to which they pay back once they start earning a wage. The higher the wage the higher the amount paid back.
I for one wouldnt mind a loan with interest rates offered to students, they are a better than any high street bank would offer me.
These students want their cake and eat it. Free education and waltz straight into a high paying jobs such as banking and law. Well we know how well they have almost bankrupted the country. Who is repaying for the damage its me THE TAX PAYER.
If students want to get a high paid job with all the benefits then great you pay for your own education and not at my expence.
As for EMA payments…..what the hell is that about. Paying teenagers to turn up at lessons..OMG
Report abuse
When you trained as a nurse or a teacher in the past accomodation was provided although with the latter you paid a nominal rent.
Now when we have problems with the weather the hopital staff are not living on the premises anymore.
Today students are seen as a commodity to milk and many a retirement or person who gained from the past ridiculously inflated property market is supported now by renting out to students.
Halls are privatised so a full year’s rent has to now be found and if you want to work whilst studying it is not easy to find work that will fit in. Employers want their workforce on short contracts and available at other times on tap, thesedays.
Not all jobs pay that well with a degree Jason and if you had not benefitted from low tuition fees for a period at uni that appears to have been sufficient to be a vet or doctor you would not be in a job that so obviously calls for high intelligence and a firm grasp of politics, the economy and no doubt in return a suitably high salary.
So now you have had a cheap uni career you are all in favour of future students paying more?
I am a bit surprised that you seem to think that students have previously had a free for all but then that’s presumably what you have been paid rather too well in my view, to say.
Report abuse
Eva Land – you are grossly misinformed.
I agree not all jobs pay that well with a degree and that is why I stress uni is a choice. With choice comes the responsibility to conduct your own research into how much you are likely to make once you are finished your course.
You then look at the cost of going and your means to pay it back. Simple.
You go on to say I would not be a journalist if I did not benefit from low tuition fees. Utter rubbish.
There was nothing cheap about uprooting my life to move to England, a cost I bore through hard work and not loans.
That is the choice I made, and it was not a ‘cheap uni career’ by any means.
As you will have read in my blog, if you want something, you have got to pay for it.
The free-for-all i refer to is the period prior to 1998, when the Government then introduced means-tested tuition fees.
Never ‘presume’ anything.
Report abuse
Im all for education, but why should the tax payer have to fund higher education ? Is it not bad enough that a lot of people without children have to pay tax to educate other peoples children ? If you want the best for your child, then you must be prepared to pay. Either that or the companies that want these higher educated people pay for the privelige.
Report abuse
exactly – these students going on the rampage and protesting are trying to intimidate the taxpayer to fund their education by force and threats of violence.
Report abuse
“Is it not bad enough that a lot of people without children have to pay tax to educate other peoples children ?”
No, because other people’s children will eventually use that education to get jobs, which keep our country and economy running.
Report abuse
So who paid for your education then , David ?
Report abuse
“Is it not bad enough that a lot of people without children have to pay tax to educate other peoples children”
A lot of people who don’t smoke pay taxes for health care for smoke related, a lot of people who disagree with our global military shenanigans pay taxes for that too – that’s how tax works – there has to be the concept of the “common good”.
Report abuse
i think you’ll find with the tax on fags, it pays for the whole health service.
Report abuse
Finally someone has voiced out a similar belief as mine.
Two key things wrong I find with the student protests.
1st – In life and business you need to speculate to accumulate, so paying for a service to further yourself in your selected profession shouldn’t be paid for by everyone, it is a personal progression not a community effort.
2nd – I find that the students are miss directing their arguments. Their questions should not be “Why should we pay more Mr. Government?”, but they should direct at the universities and ask, “What do I get for my £9000? Please break it down to where my funds go.” On this basis as some courses only require around 4.5 hours of lectures a week, how can universities justify their costing. Once explained then it is obviously up to that individual to determine whether that is good value for money for it’s return.
Report abuse
We have a policy of no debt in this family, and I am raising my kids to refuse to go into the red. It upsets me greatly to know that for them to achieve in life, they will be stumped with a huge debt even before they consider getting a mortgage!!
No – my children will find a better way; through hard work and being in the right place at the right time. Is university the only way to “make it” in life?
If they want to do higher education, they will have to work and save their money if they wish to get through university like I did all those years ago.
Report abuse
If these students consider the cost of their further education a debt, what are they going to make of a mortgage when they get one ?.
Report abuse
I’m surprised nobody has mentioned the obvious. Too many students.
According to UCAS university admissions statistics, there were 377,544 applicants accepted on courses in 2004. In 2009, this figure was 481,854.
It doesn’t require a mathematical genius to work out that it costs less to provide courses for fewer students. It seems the upward trend is financially unsustainable and, in these harder times, it’s finally come to a head.
Report abuse
I can’t comment on Jason’s wages, but as a journalist myself I can say it took me two degrees to get here and I’m on less than £19k pa with little scope for increase if I stay in my current field. Last time I checked with friends who graduated from first degrees around the same time I did, that wasn’t a particularly high salary. My starting wage was around £14k.
Report abuse
But surely the sort of salaries paid to journalists in your field would have been known to you prior to embarking on the relevant degree course?
And in addition – at the salaries mentioned you wouldn’t have to pay back any of the debt anyway, because they are below the threshold.
Report abuse
I was aware it wouldn’t be great pay, I wasn’t aware it would be quite that low, compared to what contemporaries were earning. But once I’d started the training course it was a bit late. There was also a certain amount of idealism involved in pursuing this career path. To be clear, my first degree wasn’t in journalism, I then did a vocational postgrad to qualify as a trainee reporter.
Under the new system, I wouldn’t have to pay back the debt. But as I graduated in 2006 the threshold for payback is much lower, around £15,000. I’m currently paying back around £30 a month, which barely covers the interest.
Report abuse
Open Uni is also an option. I am studying through them and it might take 6 years instead of 4, but it costs a lot less, I have a full time job while studying, and at the end of 6 years I will have a degree plus 6 years experience.
Report abuse
Like you Marco, I am studying with the OU. I couldnt just give up a paid job to go off studying! Perhaps others may have to follow this route and live in the real world..
Report abuse
I’m not at the OU but i’m at Manchester Met part time. I work 8-5 everyday, i attend uni mon and tues every week.
Plus I bought my first house last year and i’m 22.
Not so hard really if you put the effort in and i’m not a total recluse, i still go out with friends etc etc
Report abuse
The Liberal Democrats promised not to vote for an increase in tuition fees if they won the election.
They didn’t win the election and instead, we have a ‘compromise’ government. That’s how democracy works. It also means that they cannot fulfill all their pre-election commitments.
The protesting students need to take account of what their parents voted for. If the parents didn’t vote for the one party that promised not to increase fees then their children have no right to protest against tuition fee rises.
My children are all through with Uni, but I am concerned about these education costs and the implications it has for the future of Britain. I voted for the one party that promised to protect children’s educations and our future. Shame others didn’t.
Report abuse
Julie,
You need to look up the difference between compromise and capitulation.
It seems to me that the Lib Dems have gained little or nothing from this Faustian pact they’ve entered into, other than the prospect of a vote on a less than satisfactory system of PR, for which they’ve comprehensively sacrificed all of their previously-stated principles.
It’s inevitable in any coalition that there will be areas of outright disagreement, so why don’t the Lib Dems have the honesty to make that clear and simply vote against this – you don’t do a complete U-turn on your policies simply because you didn’t win an election.
Report abuse
I didn’t go to Uni when I had the choice 15 years ago because I couldn’t have afforded to keep a roof over my head whilst studying.
I’m now a Financial Controller and probably earn more than most Uni students do for the first 10 years after they’ve left Uni.
Can’t afford it? Don’t go. I’m not wholly sure a degree does you any favours anyway. I’d rather employ someone with experience than a kid with a bit of paper to wave a about.
Report abuse
Ellan,
I’m inclined to agree with you. There are many jobs for which a degree is a necessity, but there are many more areas where solid experience within the working environment is far more valuable than a degree.
I would much sooner take someone at 18 with a positive attitude towards learning in the workplace than someone who has gone away and studied a degree (very likely in a discipline which has little or nothing to do with the job they’re applying for) and who then presents themself as God’s gift to the employment market, having been hyped up to believe this whilst at ‘Uni’.
Once employed, some of them continue to expect favourable treatment over those who have spent time within the company, who have a greater level of relevant experience and usually at least the same level of knowledge, simply because they have a bit of paper to wave around.
To some extent of course employers cause this problem, by insisting upon a degree when ‘A’ levels and the right attitude will more than suffice. Thet imagine that by asking for a degree, they will attract the elite – that might have been true 30 years ago, but now that we send far too many people to University (many of which are not really Universities anyway!) the value of a degree is greatly eroded.
And if we’re concerned about hardship, spare a thought for those who do choose to join the world of employment at a younger age. They’re often low-paid to begin with, but will need to pay for accommodation, and to run a car, because public transport in many cases simply doesn’t cater for people in work. No-one offers them cheap loans to be paid back at a favourable rate once they’re earning a bit more. I would wager there’s almost as much debt for young impecunious working people as there is for students – we just don’t see it.
We need to take a more intelligent look at university funding, and it needs to be skills-driven. Where there is a clear shortage of people wishing to take a course (I believe Physics is one example at present) we should fully fund this.
Other degree courses, where there is little chance of employment at graduation should be put under much greater scrutiny – do we really need so many Drama students for example? Is there a shortage of out of work actors? I think not.
Report abuse
There’s no excuse for the violence we’ve seen at these recent protests. The police should come down heavier with these spoilt little yobs.
The police should also crack down on by far left extremists who’ve encouraged them.
Report abuse
how many of these so called students doing the damage are students?.
I should imagine they’re the same idiots who go on demonstrations about building new roads,railways etc, they just move around to the next place to cause trouble and do damage in someone else name
Report abuse
So they should. And at the same time they should clamp down on the far-right extremists of the EDL and BNP. We don’t need violence and hatred of any sort on our streets.
Report abuse
Violence and hatred openly committed, by those of any creed or political persuasion should be stamped out!
Report abuse
You can have degrees as long as your arm but the way the current job market is going and unemployment increasing due to cutbacks etc degress could prove useless. Purely for framing. I appreciate all the hard work and dedication that students put in but a rethink is in order by this so call government to help students not disgruntle them.
Report abuse
If employers want to employ graduates, I expect that they will have to increase salaries to an amount which will allow their newly employed graduates to pay back their student loans.
I think students need to think carefully about the careers they are aiming at for the future before choosing to take a degree.
Report abuse
All students do is bloody moan, if you don’t like it then don’t go to uni and get a job like the rest of us. After all uni is seen as a waste anyhow because most employers prefer people with experience. The only experience you get at uni is drinlks drungs and std’s…
Report abuse
Darren
Couldn’t agree more. My son decided not to go to Uni and would dearly love a job to get experience. So the ‘rest of us’ where are the jobs. He is fed up with being turned down as he has no experience.
Experience at Uni includes being independent, budget management, time management including juggling part time jobs and studying. These should be added to your ‘only experience you get at Uni’ list.
Report abuse
“The only experience you get at uni is drinlks drungs and std’s”
Looks as if you speak from experience ;)
Report abuse
I started my degree with the OU, then transfered my credits to finish at Salford Uni. Before I started the course, I was well informed about costs, payback etc, but considered it worth while in the long run. I did my degree as a mature student, maybe age gave me and being a family man gave me a different view, but however, I was informed and now enjoy a 2.1 Hons and a post grad diploma, its mine an I pay for it, why should anyone else pay for my degree that I reep the rewards for, no matter how difficult at times.
Report abuse
I think that all these rioting students should thank the students who graduated before them and acquired positions on boards of major corporations, banks and positions in government.
They are the ones who made the questionable decisions to bring on the recession and budget cuts the students are now experiencing.
So rioting students, don’t worry you’ll get your chance and when you have a top position in the government we expect you to have to make the decision to reduce the fees or alternatively like your predecessors make a mess of things.
Report abuse
Do the students actualy know what they are demonstrating for, as the ones that were spoken to on tv were`nt all that sure, plus I feel they should send all the damage costs from the demonstration to the student Union to pay, why should us the taxpayers pay for it.
Report abuse
When did you go to uni, when it was free? when it cost £1000? If so don’t judge future students for being upset about big fee’s.
Having £27,000 tuition fees debt on top of eating, clothing etc is ridiculous.
And were an service-based economy and this needs lots of graduates to keep progressing so saying don’t go is foolish.
Report abuse
I am student in my first year of university. Myself and many others feel that the students who are protesting are giving all students a bad name. I, personally, am not that bothered about the rise in fees. I will graduate in 2013, and the rise in fees will only affect those that start in 2012.
Many of these students, feel that they are so skint, however, out of experience, I bet if you asked many of them, they still find the money to go out drinking etc., have the latest contract phone and a membership to the gym.
Even if the rise in fees did affect me, I would just get on with it, we are given generous student loans, that can be spent in anyway you like and don’t have to be paid back for years, and if you wait long enough, the loan is actually written off by the government. To be fair, students have it quite easy and if other people are that bothered by fees, then just don’t go to university. It isn’t really necessary to cause so much violence and waste police resources.
Report abuse
Interesting that as usual the emphasis is placed on doing a degree that will “pay well ” at the end and so will allow for incurring a debt that can be paid off by getting a ‘vulture job’ , like a lawyer , banker or , drtead i say, politician !
A teachers degree ? A nurse or doctor ? The gamut of other careers that Jason and his ilk will never do because the financial reward isn’t there . But do they want these jobs and careers to disappear ? Only for those who can’t afford the fee , or the cost of the service !
Education IS a right . My father was a teacher and then a headmaster . And a very proud and determined one who loved his CAREER and the joy of imparting the knowledge to his pupils . He came from a mining family which meant he needed financial help to go to college . In turn , his taxes helped pay for others to take this road , including me . I am 44 , have no kids , but i still paid taxes to fund schools and colleges for others children . This is called the social debt . We all pay it so ALL can benefit from it if they need to .
Don’t become like the USA , where i live now . All men are created equal ……. as long as you have the money and Daddies connections to pay for it . And look at the state of it over here , where most students would be hard pushed to point out where the UK is on a map , never mind find their way to London to protest !
Report abuse
You know what? I am absolutely fed up of people moaning about every single piece of public expenditure that doesn’t benefit them directly. What about the rational, socially responsible people who are happy for their taxes to be spent on making sure nobody slips through the cracks, and that everybody is looked after?
I am sure some people would be happier if the government just left people to fend for themselves entirely.
Finally, I find the hypocrisy of the current government laughable. On the one hand they (rightly) condemn the previous government for leaving the country with high levels of debt, but on the other they continue to advocate the building up of ridiculous levels of personal debt if people want to better themselves.
Report abuse
So it turns out you *DON’T* throw good money after bad. D’oh ! That’s where we’ve all been going wrong all these years.
But you’re right it’s all about the most important issues in the public purse and thus where you direct the money.
You could give it to Education for sure (but what have future generations ever done for us!) Then again you may want to give it effectively as tax breaks (of say £2bn to Vodafone), or to fund the war on terror (or any of the various things we individually either support or do not).
Now the Government you elected (??) has made that choice on your behalf as Governments do (although in this case not based upon what they promised they’d do when you voted for them – shocker!) and decided to take away c. £11m a year from Education.
In chess parlance…Your move.
Report abuse
There is a very simple solution to this.
Cut course time down from 3 years to 2 years. More lectures every week and less free time. University should be hard work it should be a drinking frenzy. I’m sure students would be prepared to work that little bit harder for a £20,000 saving. I know I would.
CS
Report abuse
I agree the degree system needed changing but this disgraceful action, as you say Nistagmus, has been a choice and neither the Tories nor Lib Dems would have got voted in if they had been honest before the election and not just about this issue either.
The last three posts 23/24/25 have been a breath of fresh air.
Cameron talks about the Big Society but he really means big for the few.
I really believe that the unacceptable situation that we in England who have worked hard bringing up a family is is that our education facilities are now in this govt’s view our new industry.
If we can’t afford to buy into it, our children will either spend a lifetime paying for the bankers greed or never reach their potential.
It’s no good saying you don’t need a degree to get on because that is clearly not true in many professions where intelligence and skill are a requirement not just entrepreneurship.
Report abuse
i think the tories and the lib dems got in and saw what a complete mess labour left the country in, hence the cuts.
The idea is they get a degree pay it off with the better income jobs they will receive, as only a few will do and receive degrees it will mean less graduates on the market for the top jobs.
Lets face it you don’t really need a surfing degree do you.
I’m all for the change – make it 2 years of real hard study.
Report abuse
The last Tory government decimated our country’s manufacturing industries but thought that was alright because we would become a “knowledge economy” – the new lot are going to trash that too.
We have already done really poorly for the next generation – having trashed the economy and the planet – the least they deserve is a proper advanced education so that perhaps they can find solutions to the mire they have inherited. Our new world competitors will be China and India – they are pushing further education not suffocating it. The likes of Cameron and Clegg and their wealthy cohorts will not suffer from this but our country will. No party had a mandate for these charges – and the Lib Dems had an active mandate against them – I notice they have gone very quiet about the promised changes to enable disgruntled constituencies to recall their MP’s ….
Report abuse
So for all the problems in the world you are blaming the Tory government and their few months in charge trying to clean the labour mess up.
get a grip and grow up
Report abuse
I can only suggest that you take a long hard look at the debt figures in the context of GDP. 30% of GDP in debt terms was spent solely on bailing out failed banks. The remainder of the total debt (some 32% of GDP) is not an historically high figure – the idea that this is the worst debt we’ve seen is largely a propaganda invention in order to allow for savage, ideologically-driven cuts in public services.
If anyone caused the mess, it was the bankers, and they seem to be the ones being protected at the expense of the working population and students alike.
Report abuse
Within our educational establishment most students have taken loans this year to pay their fees – which is fair enough – but just to give an example – the amount of money given to them was perhaps two or three times the fee so what did they do with the extra – give it back so they aren’t in so much debt… no here is an example of things that have been bought – a Macbook Pro (the student already had a laptop which worked perfectly well but decided they wanted a new one), a new car, booked a foreign holiday!
I never attended University and both of my sisters did – but lets ask who is earning more money – it’s actually me!
Report abuse
I was took on at 19 after leaving school due to personal reasons with no qualifications.
Im now mid 20′s working full time and doing part time degree, funded by myself!
Some people go to uni to party (sad but true). Some go to study. The banks are willing to fund the partying lifestyles but not for the academics!
Report abuse
ps: im in my last year!
Report abuse
I was sad that you did not put my earlier reply to your post on Jason.
[You go on to say I would not be a journalist if I did not benefit from low tuition fees. Utter rubbish.]
I did not say that. I was in fact being sarcastic as there are many marvelous journalists who have not stepped inside a university.
[The free-for-all I refer to is the period prior to 1998, when the Government then introduced means-tested tuition fees.]
Actually parents of students were factored in as paying a contribution so not quite so free as you seem to presume Jason.
I also made the point that Scottish students paying nothing, Welsh students paying nothing or a mere £3000 if they study in England and Irish students sadly for them now having to pay just under £2000 tuition fees does not strike me as being remotely fair to Engish students who at the very least will pay twice as much.
Report abuse
A university education doesn’t carry much clout these days, anyway.
Too many self deluded half-wits doing Micky Mouse courses. They (and society) would be far better off if alot of these lazy scruffs got off their backsides and did some real work instead.
Report abuse
There isn’t any “real work” to do though. Remember the record unemployment thing? They either go to university or go straight on the dole.
Report abuse
Attacking the future king – brilliant way of making a point – lock em all up and throw away the key.
No place in our society, this is not how we do things in the UK – if you want to riot and protest … become French. shimples
Report abuse
Well done the students, can’t wait for them to join us in future protests against continued membership of the EU, when the people wake up to paying millions of pounds into this corrupt organization.
Report abuse
I assume that by not wanting to pay for students to be educated, the OP does not intend to ever use the services of a doctor, dentist or other health practitioner?
I assume the OP will never want their children to be educated in school classrooms, nor will they ever require a lawyer to write up their will and testament or defend them in, heaven forbid, any legal wrangles?
Of course, the OP will never want to read a newspaper or learn about daily events. There’s also no interest here in seeing the development of cures or alternate fuels to the ones we’re currently running into the ground, I presume?
The list could go on and on.
I’m amazed how easily people fall for the Government’s propaganda when money is the issue. What we are paying for is not individuals to better themselves but for the future infrastructure of this country.
I’m a graduate, and my debt is also minimal in comparison to what’s being touted now as the potential cost.
The average salary for a graduate is not £100k even supposing that said graduate can get a job (in the current climate that is hard) of graduate level. I know graduates of postgraduate level earning in the 20-30K range and this is the norm for their career.
The jobs in the national press with large figures slapped on them are mostly jobs for the city and even there there’s no guarantee of that kind of wage. It’s exception, not the rule for most graduates. The economy would not sustain every single graduate earning 100k as standard.
Taxes also subsidise benefits, and there are a lot of people who need and deserve those payments. However, there are also some who do not. If graduates earn more, they also pay more taxes. The graduates are subsidising the benefit claimers and the frontline council workers and all of the people whose jobs don’t require a degree to do.
It only takes a little logical thinking to realise educating the nation benefits all of us in the long run.
That said, the people who go to university should be the top class people and not everyone who’s ever walked through a college door. Maybe if they focused on quality and not quantity, there’d be less of a problem.
Report abuse
I note that Jason Lavan has headed his blog ‘Don’t want to pay for university? Don’t go then!’ whereas it should in fact read ‘Can’t afford to pay for university? Can’t go then!’
Report abuse
“People with a third level education behind them generally earn more dosh, so why should taxpayers who otherwise start work after school pay for us to go to uni and earn more money than them in the long run?”
Well the people earning “more dosh” pay “more taxes” and therefore pay back the money for their degree, and more, benefiting everybody else. That’s how it’s always been; it isn’t the current generation of teenagers entering the workforce that pay for current students’ degrees, it’s the current graduates who are earning “more dosh” who fund the universities today.
Under the new system someone who works hard and gets a good degree and earns “more dosh” will spend 45 years giving up 9% of their salary plus market rate interest, plus 50% income tax plus council tax and national insurance and everything else, whereas someone who parties hard and gets a third will get a low paid job with less taxation and will just wait for their debt to be written off.
The market rate interest is the least progressive element of the whole package; it just paves the way for the rich to pay off their fees up front and end up paying less than someone who has less money.
“I spent six years at university both in Ireland, where fees were minimal at the time, and here in England.” Lucky you. You’re not really in a position to comment then, are you? You paid very little for your degree, you either had no interest or very low interest depending on when you studied. Your experience is irrelevant.
“And it is not just English students being hit hard, the Irish budget was held yesterday (TUE) and students there were hit with a hike in fees of €500 a year to €2,000″
And is that at all comparable with hikes of £3290 (€3930) to £9000 (€10,752)? No. So that’s also fairly irrelevant.
“I sympathise with students who had aspirations of uni and believed it was not going to cost them dearly, but this is the price which has to be paid when the economy crashes.”
Yes. And it’s a crash of the economy caused when the current generation of students were still children by the actions of their parents and grandparents who wanted everything for nothing and want their children to pay for it. Students have every right to be angry about this. What kind of example does it set? We’re told that the banking crisis was caused by record levels of debt, and then saddle the next generation with debt before they even start work.
I’m fairly confident that the Lib Dems will be obliterated at the next election. If people want Conservatives they’ll vote Conservative, and if people want an alternative…well there isn’t one really. But the Lib Dems can’t possibly claim to be it.
Report abuse
Why not work and pay your way through uni???
Report abuse
a bit hard when i earn less than 13000 a year
Report abuse
Also when will people stop bleating about the Libdems ?, they made their ‘pledge’ stating that IF THEY WON THE ELECTION this would be a policy and they DID NOT WIN THE ELECTION……..so people get over it, and also its fairly obvious that a lot of the Libdem voters left ‘NEW’ labour to purely try and stop the despicable ‘Tories’ getting into power and oh dear the poor luvvies didn’t get their way.
Report abuse
No, each Lib Dem MP said that if their constituents chose them to represent their views they would vote against a rise in tuition fees. They were perfectly capable of doing this, it didn’t matter whether they were in government or not.
Report abuse
The education protests are just the begining,what about protesting about the huge price of fuel,gas,electricity,food, the mass loss of jobs.No violence just protest.
Report abuse
Couldn’t agree with you more Amber. All the whingers on here seem to forget that if they’re ill they’ll need a university educated doctor, when they divorce they’ll need a university educated solicitor and so on.
The shame is that there are so many non courses. When I went to Uni there were only 5% of the population that went – a far better system!
Report abuse
hi all
i’m egyptian student, learning civil engineering in alexandria university , Egypt (don’t be deceived by the name)
about 50 years ago the education considered as a right so it became so cheap.
during that there was a famous quotation “education is like water and air for the human being”
now i pay fees for the 2 semesters (about 4 months the semester) what equals 20 euros!!!!
u can say this is a grant for getting excellent marks in the high school
my brother couldn’t get good marks so we have to pay about 3000 euros in another university for architecture engineering
in Egypt we have a large quantity of bachelor holders but with a bad quality
for me i have to take courses out side the university to be able to work and just start my career
so don’t concentrate only on the fees but what you’re learning? , what you going to be after that in the long run
a politician to ensure student acceptance for him may decrease the fees and decrease the level of learning and that what happened in Egypt.
Report abuse