Blog: For pity’s sake, it was just a comment
Tuesday 25th January 2011, 11:58AM GMT.
Blog: This Richard Keys and Andy Gray saga, talk about a storm in a teacup – actually am I allowed to say teacup or does it infer that I am suggesting a woman’s place is in the kitchen and she should be making a brew?
It was two middle-aged men talking about football. Clearly the Sky Sports duo shouldn’t have said what they said given their position as broadcasters, but does it really warrant all this media coverage and the pair possibly losing their jobs?
No.
The duo should have learnt that nothing said goes unheard in this day and age – ask Big Ron Atkinson or Gordon Brown.
But the same thing will happen at every football match up and down the country ever single weekend – whether it be directed at a female official or simply a woman in the crowd.
Is it sexist? Yes, probably, but this is a football match – the one remaining theatre where a man goes to escape the opposite sex.
We have lost the pub – now a family-friendly affair – the working men’s club is long gone, and so we crowd at football grounds.
The Sky pair joked that women don’t know anything about offside – it’s a joke that has been in place since the offside law itself – I saw it as harmless banter.
It’s the same harmless banter as when a member of the opposite sex will say to me that I can’t multi-task.
Almost every football-loving male has, at one stage or another, probably explained to a girl the offside rule using bottles of tomato sauce and the salt and vinegar shakers.
The fact that Assistant Referee Sian Massey got the one major call in the Wolves v Liverpool game absolutely spot-on proves that she is good enough to officiate at a Premier League game – whether she be a girl, Black, Asian or an alien. If you’re good enough, you will make it regardless of what people say about you.
So let’s all move on with our lives and leave Sian to get on with her job and messrs Keys and Gray can get on with theirs.
Now where are we on that tea?
By Alex James
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What I find most astonishing isn’t the comments but the reported £1.7m a year Andy Gray gets paid, basically 10 times more than the head of government, or would pay for 70 nurses or police officers.
It has certainly made me think about how much I am paying for my Sky package and whether I want to carry-on with it.
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Does it really matter how much Andy Gray earns? Your banding Sky, a corporate entity, with the Government. Sky can pay who they want they want without having to consider how much a Police Office earns!
As much as I like Andy Gray the comments were wrong.
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Don’t line Murdoch’s pocket by paying for Sky,he should have never been allowed the tv rights for the Premiership,remember when it was free to watch on BBC Match of the Day,ATV Star Soccer on Sunday lunchtimes.As for Andy Gray far overpaid and over rated,many a “Football Mad” man/woman would love the chance to gas about football on tv just for the love of the game!
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So I suppose all of the people who fought to get something that partially equates equality should have shut up because, after all, it was just a few blokes being blokey.
Football has sad history relating to this – the FA banned womens football in the early days because more people were watching that than mens money orientated leagues.
Go research that and think about it.
and…
I heard that the funniest part was the blokes got the offside rule wrong anyway – took the woman to get it right. But they’re on telly and she’s just someoen skilled at her job.
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If only it was easy to move on dude. But they have to be punished for their comments like Big Ron and Gordon Brown. Why? Because they were blatant sexist comments and there is no place for it. It would be just as bad if a lines-person was ethnically different and comments were heard relating to race. As faces of footballing culture in the UK, Keys and Gray as representatives of the Country have shown that we are not as advanced a culture as we think we are.
I for one think they should be punished for it. Anything less than losing their position on Sky Sports highlights that we have a tolerance to Sexism and Racism when clearly football is one of the leading sports that has tried to oust racism.
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So, you’ve never thought badly of, say, a woman driver? Your thoughts are always as pure as the driven snow?
‘I for one think they should be punished for it’? For what?For having opinions different to your own? For having what they thought was a private conversation?
You might not be aware of this, but people might say one thing to you but think something else entirely, and they are entitled to their own thoughts and opinions, no matter how much other people might disagree with them.
Still, I’m glad that you are so perfect, but I don’t think I want you as judge, jury and executioner, thanks.
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It is NOT the same as saying something like “black people don’t know the offside rule”, which is, of course, racist.
These comments about offside are a bit of banter, very much like women saying “men cant multitask” or Harriet Harman saying “if it had been Leman Sisters, we wouldn’t have had such of a banking crisis” (she said that on air, and still has a job). Football and women is like a long standing bit of banter between the sexes, as so many women despise it, or just aren’t interested in it. Many are, yes,and that is great, but the fact is that MOST do not like football, or do not understand the fact that many men are so passionate about 22 blokes kicking a small ball around. As such, the “joke” about women not knowing the offside rule is just that, a long standing joke.
I don’t like Keys or Gray, they needed replacing anyway to freshen it up, but they should not have lost their jobs for making comments such as these in “privacy”. If we are taking this line then nobody would have a job anywhere, as 99% of people will make similarly “sexist” jokes in private.
It’s a complete joke, the feminists and PC brigade need to seriously chill out and take a look at the things women so frequently say that are derogatory to men, which are no different.
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I agree to a certain extent that it has been blown up out of all proportion. However, in these days of political correctness it cannot happen no matter what the subject is. Your comment that a football match “is the one remaining theatre” for men is absurd – I am a football season ticket holder and whilst men are in the majority there are certainly lots of women there, as you would know if you attend live football matches. I can certainly explain the offside rule to anyone who doesn’t know, as can many women – indeed I have explained it to a few men! I don’t think they should lose their jobs but experienced presenters like the two in question should know better!
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The guys have now come out an apologised for their comments – setting aside from Ron Atkinson’s racist ‘jibe’ and Gordon Brown’s defamatory ‘biggot’ comment, these two relate to a colloquial steroetype against a woman. Mike Newell’s comments regarding the place in a kitchen would be more accurately comparable. Newell suffered a hefty fine from the FA as a result.
So the comments were wrong: in the eyes of the pretentious correctness that surrounds our society and also in the eyes of the media (who are also attributable for driving this). Are we surprised to find sexism in a male-dominated arena and more importantly, is this a common occurance? – Given the limited examples I think not.
However, does anybody watch Loose Women during the daytime? When similar banter towards men is more than rife on a daily basis. Are people quick to jump on the band-wagon when things like this happen – of course they are, this is what the whinging critics in our soceity live on.
‘Sachsgate’ in 2010 received 1 complaint and no more on the day that Russel Brand and Jonathan Ross made their ‘witty’ prank call on Mr Sachs – two weeks later this had reached 28,000 – the wagon is getting full.
Let’s move on in society – if instances like this occur let’s sort them with internal discipline and stop feeding the fire-baiters.
L
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Aren’t women saying similar comments everyday about men on the TV programme loose women?? everyone laughs when women have a dig at men so why this furore about these two guys?
Not condoning what they said but come on….
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Yes they do, which is exactly the reason why I, as a woman, do not watch Loose Women. It is a lousy programme made for a general stereotyped female audience…. mmm sounds like Sky Sports Football really… only that’s made for men… interesting.
Andy G and Richard K were out of order and, let’s face it, they know what the score is with their very well paid commenting jobs… and if not they should have learnt from Ron A… It doesn’t matter what they think about females in football… all they had to do was keep their mouths shut when it came to their personal opinions which could be open to some particular debate, as is now.
We all have opinions on subjects which are either non-PC or taboo but as adults we normally know whom we can discuss them with and when. We don’t discuss them at work with colleagues as it may end up with us getting the sack, as is now with Andy G. The pair of them only have themselves to blame.
Anyway, can we have Ron A back out of detention now please?
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It’s all a one way street isn’t it? Everyone having to bend over backwards so as not to offend anyone. It seems to me the only people in society today that are “fair game” are white, straight men. A fine example is the tennis at Wimbledon. Why should the womens prize money be the same as the mens?
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Why shouldn’t it be?
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Well, the men play 5 sets, the ladies play only 3. Is that fair? I’m not sure that it is.
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Do spectators have to pay less to watch the women’s final? I don’t think so.
And the mens final can be over in 3 sets.
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Should Men have to work harder and longer to earn the same amount?
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And the womens can be over in two sets!
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I’d like to see that pair sacked for talking tripe week in week out. A pair of bigots as well as sexist.
Let Sian get on with her job – she’s obviously good at it, and this isnt helping her any.
As for ”
a football match – the one remaining theatre where a man goes to escape the opposite sex” – do me a favour mate – when did you last go to a match? Even my Mum used to stand on the Kop in the 50′s!
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Oh dear all a fuss about nothing, nobody has ever died from a sexist remark and I am sure the lady it was directed at, hears far worse,
If what I hear about football games is true.
People are entitled to an opinion these two were recorded off air and it was their opinion, I am glad peoples homes are not bugged the UK over if they were we would all be accused of sexist, racist, bigoted comments.Get over it.
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I’m astonished by the furore surrounding this. The whole thing was sparked by 2 men off air having a joke with each other. Do they genuinely believe that she doesn’t know the off-side rule? Of course they don’t. Do they genuinely believe that she shouldn’t have been running the line? off course they don’t?
It was just two men having a joke, making the same cliché that evry bloke makes every day. As people have pointed out it’s no different to women saying men can’t multi-task, or the boots advert on TV over christmas making out that men can’t cope with a cold, whereas women battle through.
Get over it, laugh about it, move on and let them both get back to what they do best, talking about football.
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incidentally, the only person that should be sacked is the person that maliciously leaked the recordings to the press!
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Gray sacked by Sky,
According to Guardian he was sacked for ‘unacceptable and offensive behaviour’
Reading the article he seems to have a history of making sexist comments.
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Totally knee jerk reaction. I trust Sky will be looking at their soccer am show which has had a weeky soccerette taking her top off – now that’s not sexist is it!!?
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I’m always curious as to the motives or mindset of those who defend as a God given right the supposed freedom to be boorish, bullying and offensive. Why? Oh I know, that old chestnut will be rolled out of if you don’t like it then you can leave. I much prefer the stance that if you find someone’s behaviour or language unpleasant then do something about it. Well done Sky TV.
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I,for one am glad Andy Gray has been sacked. Now i can watch the footie without him using that stupid screen before the match showing which player will move where. If your so good Mr Gray get a job as a manager.
I was at the match and thought the female lineswoman was superb, good on her.
Lastly, i just now Andy has gone home early, Mrs Gray has got his tea on the table early else i wouldn’t like to be in her shoes….
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“am I allowed to say teacup or does it infer that I am suggesting a woman’s place is in the kitchen and she should be making a brew?”
No.
It might *imply* that, but it definitely doesn’t infer it.
Also, if you truly go to football matches to escape women you’re a very sad man.
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My son was told me earlier on tonight about a girl he works with at present telling him about when she had a job in London serving in a restaurant. A well known cricketer dining there said that she had to give him a kiss if she was hoping for a tip. She found it very upsetting. I was surprised this is still considered acceptable behaviour.
It is all about respect and if Andrew Finch cannot see that then I feel sorry for him.
If he makes sexist, racist and bigoted remarks in the privacy of his home then I presume he is sayng that he is all of those things surely? I don’t think he has the right to speak for other people in that regard.
A rather amusing story comes to mind however when back in the early 1970s my sister had left her car lights on whilst we were in the cinema. With a flat battery she had no choice but to call the AA and was dreading him saying, “typical woman” when he arrived. Even if he had had that thought in mind he didn’t get a chance to express it because just after he had jumped out of his van she had to tell him he had left his brake off and the van was quite rapidly moving across the car park!
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Anyway, I don’t know much about football…. but I do love little rabbits, they are so soft and furry!
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Can somebody explain the offside rule to me so I can get involved?
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Men….hisssss
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What interests me in this whole affair is not the comments but the leak. The comments were made off-air, and if you get a chance to hear them its obvious they weren’t recorded using broadcast equipment. More likely a phone or some such. Then how were they leaked?
I tells ya he’s been framed, its a set up.
Then again who cares its only football. And football isn’t really meant for grown-ups.
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The term ‘framed’ suggests false evidence – the evidence in this case isn’t disputed.
Likewise ‘set up’ would imply the pair fell into a snare but in this case no-one is suggesting any form of entrapment took place – they weren’t being coerced into behaving out of form.
I would suggest a better explanation would be;
I tells ya they’ve been deliberately recorded in an attempt to get them fired, or at least taken down a rung or two by their long suffering production team. What it loses in pith and zing, it gains in accuracy I’d reckon.
It isn’t football by the way, it’s punditry – and that definitely isn’t meant for grown-ups. To paraphrase Frank Zappa ‘Most football pundits are people who can’t play football, interviewing people who can’t talk, for people who can’t think’.
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RIGHT i dont agree with what has been said about the lineswomen at the game on saturday…but why can that waste of a hour tv show LOOSE WOMEN be allowed to slate men and degrade men as they do this everyday nearly for the whole show….i dont see anything being said about this…do women have different rights than a man
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What a load of P.C.rubbish, soon you will not be able to express yourself for fear of being heard,Wake up you people before all your rights are taken away.terry tibbs you are right.
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I never realised how many male ‘Loose Women’ viewers frequented the pages of the Shropshire Star until now.
Yes Steve, Liam, menrules…I’m looking in your direction.
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there is a hidden motive behind all of this. What was said was not for broadcast, Some sound enginneer has recorded all of the conversation and sold it and his/her soul on .again we can see the end of banter because of political correctness.
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As has been rightly pointed out in other papers: if it was ‘banter’ and ‘just for a laugh’ then where was all the laughter? I didn’t hear either of them laugh.
There is also a difference been banter down the pub with your mates and banter in a professional working environment, you wouldn’t get away with it in most places of work. There is also a difference between banter and just being an idiot (or another one syllable word).
My Dad brought me up to love football and be proud of my team. He also brought me up to believe that I have as much right to do so as anyone.
This article would have made a better point if you hadn’t undermined your conclusion with your introduction.
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We are being pushed against discrimination in all forms, and yet it is a natural, anthropological part of our make up. It is an extremis, but can serve to make the point, but we all discriminate everyday of our lives. It is a part of our lives. We discriminate in the choice of our partner, our friends, where we choose to live, even where we park our cars in a carpark. It has served humanity for a long time. Andy Gray and the presenters of Loose Women are all dinosausrs of a past age. We have to accept that that kind of discrimination was what they were brought up with and surounded with everyday, things are a changing, but they should be left to change naturally by selection and not by law and sackings, as they are discriminatory aswell.
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They weren’t stitched up, they were busted. I bet if you were to have to serve them at a bar or a restaurant table, you wouldn’t think they were “good guys”. On the contrary, you would be more likely to conclude that they were overpaid and egoistical. They became arrogant and made enemies. Bam! Revenge is sweet. It’s not so much what was said, but the spirit in which it was spoken. How the mighty are fallen. Someone, somewhere is punching the air and silently screaming “Goooooal!”
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I have been looking at what the definition of political correctness means,and this is basically what was written.
Political Correctness is a regime to punish dissent and to stigmatize social heresy it`s trademark is intolerance.
I have read with interest the comments on here, and everyone has a different opinion and so they should, but to me political correctness means we all have to have the same opinion and that is not to express one at all,suppression of our opinions is not right and reduces our freedom to speak about things which we as a person do not like,please do not tell me that there are times when you dont feel like saying anything that might offend someone because i would say you are not telling the truth.
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If that definition exists I have not been able to find it. Political Correctness in reality relates to little more than decency and respect. It promots tolerance which is why it so riles the intolerant in our society. It has been hijacked as a disparaging term to define any perceived restriction on speech, language or behaviour even when there is no PC agenda attached.
Andy Gray and Richard Keys behaved inappropriately. In most work environments (particularly public sector) they would have been disciplined at the very least. As a society we have moved on. Many things that were accepted as normal 50, 40, 30 or even 20 years ago are less tolerated now. We have the right to free speech and free thought – the much maligned Human Rights Act ensures that – but those rights do not include being offensive or sexist in a work environment. Whether they knew the microphones were on or not is irrelevant – they were at work and in the presence of colleagues.
Many comedians are offensive and freely allowed to be so. We have a choice to see them or not. Some entertainment does not rock my boat and that includes much of the daytime trash TV if I am off work and able to view. I would choose not to watch and do wonder about the purpose of such programming. Similar can be said of lad’s mags of which mindset Keys and Gray claimed to represent. They forgot the bounderies and that they were paid to be pundits not bullies. Sky did the right thing. The programmers acted with decency and long overdue respect for women. If that’s PC then well done.
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