Blog: Why can’t drivers be sensible in the snow?
Friday 17th December 2010, 9:35AM GMT.
The heavy snow we had early this morning was a surprise, and in some places road conditions were treacherous for a while, writes Sharon Walters.
Remaining calm is essential and having patience is vital. So why did so many drivers caught up in the tailback on the Ironbridge bypass throw their normal ‘oh it’s a queue and I will have to wait my turn?’ change into drivers normally seen cutting lanes and blasting their horns at every whipstitch in the likes of Paris and Rome?
Going up the bypass was dodgy with ice under snow and snow still falling thick as I tried to climb the hill at about 7.15am.
Traffic quickly came to a halt and I pulled up, putting the hazard lights on and preparing to wait. What happened next was totally irresponsible and also made the congestion far, far worse.
Traffic, including heavy goods vehicles, couldn’t wait and overtook between the stationary traffic and the cars slithering down the hill the other way.
Then most were forced in as the snow and ice took their toll on their traction as well.
It was pure by luck than judgement that there were not several nasty incidents today.
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What heavy snow? There was no more than a couple of inches. I wonder how a foot or so of the stuff would be described.
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I doubt if there was even that much, I only saw about half an inch in Telford today.
HGV drivers usually have a better idea of what’s dangerous than little old ladies who only do a coule of miles a day.
If there were “so many ” drivers overtaking you, perhaps they thought you were being over cautious. I followed someone doing 20MPH on well gritted and thawed roads today but when I had chance to overtake them they were so far out from the kerb to be dangerous.
Common sense is needed in these conditions but being “overcautious” can result in problems for HGVs who need to keep momentum on hills.
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None of the roads in telford are “thawed”.
The idea that the wheeltracks on some roads are clear of snow and safe does not exist.
Road temperature have not been above freezing for days and the grit is much less effective at the temperatures we are currently experiencing.
Anyone driving over 20mph in these conditions is taking a major risk.
You really do astound me with the absolutely stupid things you come out with on this page.
My only Christmas wish this year is that no unfortunate soul has the misfortune to be driving on the roads with you around.
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Well apart from stating the obvious about the roads, have you anything constructive to offer to inexperienced drivers on snow driving, apart from stick to 20MPH?….I thought not!
I hope that you weren’t the driver that entered the flow of traffic doing 50MPH on the EP, today and then continued to hold everyone up at 20MPH.
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Unfortunately for you and all else on the roads, Gringo, an incompetent at 20MPH has as much chance or more, of killing someone as a competent driver at 40MPH.
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The point of my previous comments seems to have been missed somewhat.
I’ve no need to list off, what i can drive and how long i’ve been driving. You may wish to worship the ground i travel over and i don’t the extra attention.
Never the less, my intention was to draw everyones attention to the fact that the roads aren’t always safe after they have been gritted.
Mark my words; the roads are going to get considerably worse over the coming week and even you Roadrunner, will if you dare to venture out, be tootling along at speeds much less than 40.
Merry Christmas to all.
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“dare to venture out”
Some of us who live in the real world and those who work for ourselves, have to venture out…no cosy offices and poor excuses for sciving, from some of us, Gringo.
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Why indeed can’t drivers be sensible?
Given the forward warning, why on earth do idiots venture onto the roads in vehicles totally unsuitable to the conditions?
Why do they feel it is their ‘right’ to block the roads crawling along at walking pace for miles, with a queue of traffic behind unable to get past?
Why can they not pull over when safe and allow other road users to pass, can they not see the long queue of headlights behind them?
If you can’t drive in the snow then stay off the roads, and allow those that can to go about their business unimpeded. When more than an inch of snow falls, two wheel drive vehicles and lorries should be banned from the highways until it is cleared.
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They don’t need to feel it’s their right – it is.
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so you want to ban all the lorries when snow is on the ground
so how on earth do you expect food and any other item get to the the shops
because believe it or not it is the lorries what deliever these to the shops
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I don’t. ‘Fed up driver’ does. I think you’ve replied to the wrong comment.
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No it isn’t. It’s a privilege that can be quickly and easily taken away.
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I beg to disagree. It is a drivers right, providing they’ve paid their road tax, to drive on the roads irrespective of the vehicle they’re in control of as long as it’s got a valid MOT at whatever speed they feel safe providing it is within the speed limit. Please advise how this is a privilege and the method you are recommending to take it away.
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The privilege can be taken away easily, have you never heard of 12 points on a licence?
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To expand on Simon’s response…
You are born with rights, one of which is not a drivers licence.
You take your test, pass, and are granted the privilege to drive by the State/Government. That privilege can be removed for a multitude of reasons, 12 points being one of them.
Driving never becomes a right, it is always a privilege. You cannot be granted a right, only a privilege.
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I have heard of it but I’ve never heard of anyone getting points for driving legally and with extreme caution in snowy/icy conditions (which was the topic). I have however heard of drivers getting points for driving illegally and dangerously.
I wish you luck in your avoidance of license points, injury and ahem ‘leaving early’.
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I’m afraid you can indeed get points for driving too cautiously. My nan received 3 points for driving too slow. She was too old really to drive and we convinced her to surrender her license after that.
There is such a thing as being over cautious and it is equally as dangerous as driving too fast.
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So, Nistagmus, you change the subject to a matter of rights, don’t like the fact you are proved wrong on rights vs privilege, and then try and make other posters look foolish for straying off topic?
I’ll take that as accepting you were wrong and others were right (pardon the deliberate pun).
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I am appalled by the lack of work on the roads by Telford & Wrekin Council.
I had to go out today to Telford and then to Shrewsbury.
To begin with I was surprised by all the snow on the roads that hadn’t been cleared, especially on the main roads and the EP.
But once I got to Shrewsbury along the M54 I was even more astonished to see all the Shrewsbury roads had been ploughed and gritted and I also saw 3 snow ploughs out on different roads around the town, even secondary roads had been cleared.
No snow and no ice on any of the roads.
So why oh why were the Telford roads including major routes such as the EP and the roads around the shopping centre and retail parks so treacherous and still covered in snow and ice? Especially on one of the busiest shopping weekends of the year!
Ludicrous
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I went to Shrewsbury yesterday and found exactly the same, all the roads were clear of snow, but not Telford. It’s a disgrace.
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Or you could learn to drive on snow.
I went on a 40mile round trip between 10 and midnight, down the eastern primary along the rabbit run and some country lanes in freezing conditions (and some fog) without moaning about the lack of grit.
Get over it.
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wow, you’re my hero. You are so awesome.
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No, he’s taken the time and effort to learn how to drive in the snow and ice. What’s so wrong with being prepared?
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Have you fools not thought it might have snowed harder in the Telford area than in Shrewsbury?. I made the journey several times yesterday and guarentee it did.
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I dont think it has snowed more in telford than shrewsbury, I have done a lot of miles in the snow over the last few weeks scotland and the midlands and I live in telford and near a main road and the only gritter i have seen was about 6am on the council car park clearing that for the workers, the roads have not been gritted, Monday it had not snowed since sat and the roads we still bad when i went to work 6am and that was with all the christmas shoppers driving round all week end, I dont know what the council have been doing this year.
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who isn’t ashamed of being from Telford & Wrekin, snow or no snow!
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Does this rubbish about global warming end now,if Kris Hulme wants to raise taxes,find another excuse,we have no say in what the earth does from time to time,Nigel lawson is the only person who speaks any sense.
,Suttonhill resident.
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What has this got to do with drivers in the snow ?
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Right, because the weather outside your window is the global climate(!!?). Perhaps read up on what global warming means and don’t just believe what you read in the Daily ScienceFromACerealPacket newspaper.
A global increase in temperature will evaporate more moisture from the oceans. That moisture has to go somewhere. More snow for example(!) Think what you like about whether it is man made or not, but sticking fingers in the ears and denying that the globe is warming makes one look a twit.
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I’ve been hearing on that most informative of social networking sites, Facebook, that the police are going to fine drivers 60 quid and give them 3 points if they don’t clear the snow from their roofs to avoid it flying off into the windscreen of the car behind
How close does the car behind have to be to not have time to flick on his wipers and clear said snow before an accident happens? And whats the difference between that and snow coming any other part of the car?
If you haven’t got time to clear your windscreen you’re driving too close to the car in front anyway!
However I’m also seeing drivers who have only cleared the windscreen at the front, all other windows being whited out. Hope they don’t have to perform any braking or reversing actions because frankly they won’t be able to. Now that you should be fined for!
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Snow blew off the car in front of me yesterday and landed on my windscreen. I turned the wipers on but unfortunately, due to the very low temperature, they behaved more like plastic scrapers than rubbery squeegees. The result was a nasty, great big smear across the screen.
Anyway, why haul a few kilograms of unnecessary extra weight around? It uses up more fuel and costs more money. It’s no effort to use a long handled soft broom to clear most of the snow off the roof.
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Good point, specially since I just paid 119.9 for petrol at Asda!
Unfortunately I’m vertically challenged (no really I am!) and can’t reach the top of my car to brush the snow off!
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Stand on a box
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I too suffer from being vertically challenged and I use a soft broom to clear the snow from my car it owrks perfectly and doesn’t scratch the car.
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Good job it wasn’t actually snowing for real then, Jake or you would have really been in the…..snow!!
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Sharon – my previous car had permanent four wheel drive and provided excellent traction in the snow, even without winter tyres. My current car is front wheel drive and the difference is astonishing. Don’t automatically assume that all cars have the same limitations as your own. Some of those cars may have been more capable.
As for cars “slithering” down the hill… I highly doubt that!
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I was driving around Telford on Saturday in the snow. The principal routes appeared to have been well-gritted, and were perfectly passable with a degree of caution.
What astonished me was the number of drivers who were failing to follow even the basic rules of driving in the snow. Many were driving far too slowly and making no use of their momentum.
When starting from a standing start they appeared to be making far too much use of the accelerator and staying in far too low a gear for too long, resulting in loss of traction, and the general idea of keeping your distance, smoothness and a light touch in all driving inputs, and slowing using gears rather than brakes seemed to be completely lost on them.
These conditions are commonplace in many other countries and they cope well enough – most of our problems are caused by over-timid and under-competent drivers.
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And why doesn’t the Asda Donnington carpark have a one way system for entering and leaving. Never mind snow, it’s like it’s chinese year of the dodo for driving round there at the mo, people trying to get round impossible corners that are tight enough on a good day, let alone when you need to take a wide berth.
Grrrrr!
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I think all motorist should spend a year on a moped before they venture into a car, then they may be able to drive to the conditions.
I spent five years going to and from work all weathers on my motor bike, you had two choices drive to the road conditions or fall off
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Its not the driving in the snow that is the problem, its the stopping in the snow when you need to.
That is why people are driving slowly …. so that they can stop when one of the “oooh I know all about driving in the snow, you’ve got to ….” brigade over shoot a T-junction in front of us.
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Hence my point about keeping your distance, and using your gears rather than your brakes to slow down. There is simply no need to drive at 10mph on a snowy road, with visibility of 50-100 yards – that’s why people get stuck on hills.
Obviously if you’re stuck in traffic it’s another matter, but much of the congestion is caused by people simply driving far too slowly.
I followed a driver on Saturday down a hill into a dip, which was followed by an uphill stretch – the road was straight, and his path ahead was quite clear. So did he make use of his downhill momentum in order to help him get up the other side? He did not. Instead he slowed almost to a halt at the bottom of the dip, and then had to scrabble around wheelspinning to get going again!
Did these people not study physics at school?
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That’s a very good point. I was driving in Telford last night and I could see drivers braking at the bottom of inclines and then wheelspinning as they tried to climb up again. If they hadn’t braked and instead used their momentum they wouldn’t have had a problem.
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Maybe. Or hit something going a lot faster on the way down the hill.
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Yes, but that’s obvious, isn’t it? You wouldn’t do it if the car in front of you was too close, or if there was a brick wall in front of you. I’m assuming people have the intelligence to judge the road ahead.
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Andrew,
Sadly, your assumption that people have the intelligence to judge the road ahead is not a safe one to make – in any weather conditions…!
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It is true that a lot of people are not confident driving in the snow (I am one of them). However, I still have to go to work so I have no choice. Most people have not been taught how to drive in the snow, and as we have had so little snow for the past three decades have had little practice! I am improving as this is the second year running we have had to contend with it but I cannot understand why people are so impatient. People should drive at a speed they feel confident at and suitable for whatever road conditions happen to be present. Cars vary in their ability to grip the road too, I have a car which is terrible and does not grip the road well at all, there is nothing wrong with the tyres but it is a rear wheel drive!
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“Most people have not been taught how to drive in the snow”
That’s very true. But some people have used initiative to find out how. Here’s a handy link:
http://tinyurl.com/yknp9r9
Apologies for the sarcasm, but I feel quite strongly that the responsibility for learning how to deal with driving in these conditions lies firmly with the individual. People should not expect to sit back and be spoon-fed instructions. Venturing out onto icy roads without adequate preparation is like attempting to hike up Scafell Pike wearing ballet pumps.
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yes it amazes me that people try and drive in these conditions when they don’t have a clue and no intention of learning how to.
Would these people try and swim the channel just after passing their length?
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Both my cars are rear wheel drive (no traction control) and although one has better grip than the other, I haven’t been unable to get anywhere so far this year, the secret is to accelerate gradually and steer gently, “feeling” through the steering wheel for “slippage” either at the front wheels or rear (difficult to describe but you soon get the feel for it).
Brake gently but gradually and let the gears slow you down, avoid sudden braking or gear changes on even the slightest corner.
Use momentum to get you up hills and not wild acceleration and change down at the top of hills instead of half way down, where a sudden gearchange or braking may cause you to lose traction.
Hope this helps, Annie
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I am astounded that in the run up to the season of goodwill, no-one has anything better to do than moan.
Yes its a pain and a nuisance but if you don’t like driving in it or don’t like how others drive in it then don’t go out.
Get some perspective please people, in the great scheme of things you aren’t the worse off in the world for a bit of ice on the road.
And to those of you that want to ban drivers from the road if they don’t have a 4 wheel drive car, think for a minute, if your son, daughter, mother, father, wife, husband, partner or someone else you love dearly needed the attention of a specialist doctor who, god forbid, had a 2 wheel drive car, would you be satisfied THEN that he would not be permitted to drive on a little ice and snow to get you and your family the treatment you need.
So look at how pretty the snow is, look at the presents under your tree, the warm embrace of the ones you love and the warm fire in the living room and be thankful of your blessings.
Merry White Christmas
mERRI
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The sad fact is the inconsiderate drivers who crawl around at silly speeds holding everyone else up are naturally selfish. They do believe it is their ‘right’ to be on the roads irrespective of the fact they can’t progress at a reasonable speed. They are pig headed enough to believe they are the ones driving ‘safely’ and that the vast majority stuck behind them are wrong and should be driving as slow as them.
They are incapable of comprehending that others may have better cars to cope with the conditions, or, heaven forbid, may just be better drivers ! No no no, they are the sensible ones driving along at walking speed. Next they will be championing a man with a red flag to walk in front.
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There has been no mention or even though, on this thread yet – despite all the self awarded god like snow and ice driving ability of many of the heroes posting on here – But – why are you on the road?
Going shopping?
Going to work – what would happen if you werent there?
Or just going out because you have the right?
Try this – you have an accident and the emergency services have to risk their lives just because “you know better” and what if that ambulance/fire engine/police car was needed at an incident where someone might die?
Before anyone asks I will say this – I am in the emergency services and I do risk my life driving in these conditions,
Many of the posters on this thread should be subjected to a an IQ test before being allowed to post/drive/breed
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10/10 for pomposity…
You should not assume that just because you are in the emergency services that you are the only person who needs to attend work in this weather.
You may well be called upon to risk your life, but that’s not likely to be the case for most of us driving at no more than 20-25 MPH in suburban conditions around Telford is it?
As for shopping, funnily enough, people do need to shop for food and other essentials – even in this weather.
Your approach is an over-cautious one – would you have us stay at home in heavy rain bacause the driving conditions are more hazardous? I think not.
It is perfectly possible to a) get where you need to go within reason in this weather, and b) to do so safely and with very little additional risk over and above the norm. All that is required is to adopt some of the simple adaptations to driving style recommended by some of the posters here – I’m sure in your occupation you are well aware of these.
Oh, and for the record, my IQ, measured on a number of occasions over the years always seems to show somehwere between 140 and 150. I’m not so sure that has any influence on my driving or my parenting abilities – can you elaborate?
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Well i dont drive at silly 20mph speeds and I need to go to work because if i dont, i dont get paid and my mortgage wont be paid and then what happens i lose my house.
think before you come out with such stupid comments, not all of us work for the government and get put on a pedestall.
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“Going to work – what would happen if you werent there?”
A surprisingly large number of people are involved – directly and indirectly – in the complex supply chains that keep the emergency services running. If they don’t go to work… well, I’m sure you can work the rest out for yourself.
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I agree with “Fed up driver”! Having been out at 7am this morning and gritted the end of our road (thanks T&W Council for refilling the bin) and taking my wife to work, I was then stuck behind another driver up by PRH who was crawling along at little more than a slow walking speed when it was fine to proceed at between 20 and 25 mph. Another driver behind me overtook, and eventually so did I, doubtless to the horror of this completely overcautious person. If you don’t feel confident driving on snow, stay at home.
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salopian
I may not be in the emergency services but I have to travel extensively for my job and whilst I have no wish to be on the road at all in this weather, unfortunately my employer requires me to continue working if it is reasonably safe to do so – which brings us straight back to the fact that the conditions are safe for competent drivers in suitable vehicles, and it is the incompetent drivers in unsuitable vehicles who are causing the problems and should not be on the roads.
Two days ago I was part of a long queue following one such vehicle at between 10 and 20mph all the way from Wolverhampton until they finally turned off the road into Gardenland !!!!!
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don’t forget folks, when clearing your car, please please please brush/scrape your lights.
You may be able to see through your windscreen, but others may not see you brake/indicate/at all if snow/ice is covering you lights. Thanks,
:O)
Jimbo
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That’s a very good point, Jimbo.
Why is it the people driving “cautiously” at 15-20MPH can’t find the time to put their lights on, scrape snow off roofs, lights and windows or indicate where they eventually intend to turn…oh and the lady I was following tonight, did not even slow when faced with a car parked on her side of the road but continued at 20MPh, into the face of oncoming traffic, causing severe braking by all those coming towards her.
These people really should stay at home.
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There are no minimum speed limits on the roads in England.
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you clearly haven’t been through the posted minimum speed limits through the anti clockwise darford crossing.
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I for one, constantly gripe and complain about the 38mph driving in and around Oswestry, and thats in good conditions! However, with any poor weather we should all be cautious and have a thought for other drivers. For those drivers who are still overtaking on roundabouts and ungritted/ploughed dual carriageways, spare a thought for the other motorists you are putting at risk from your thoughtless driving. I agree that some are too cautious, but have any of you frustrated drivers considered the fact they may be new drivers, or new to snow at least. Some of these do have to travel to work, you can’t just ring in and say – “I’m too scared to drive in this snow”! Have you never been a “new driver”?
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Jimbo, Sorry but my information came from the M of T.
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you must have been on about min speed limit for all roads (in the same way there is a national speed limit) as you are quite correct about that.
However there is a minimum speed limit posted for the Dartford tunnel, also in highway code, it’s a circular blue sign with the minimum speed indicated in white.
P.s. One should not beleive everything the government says ;O)
merry christmas
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Just read Salopians comments, my god who does he think he is? he probably only drives about 10 miles a day and thinks that he “risks his life in the snow”…maybe he does but it would be down to his driving, if that was the case….get a job in an office if it scares you that much.
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