Blog: Too many idiots on the roads
Tuesday 14th September 2010, 9:00AM BST.
Blog: Am I getting old, or are the roads getting more and more frightening? writes Emma Suddaby
Perhaps, now I’m nursing an unstable spine, I understand too well what the stakes are, but every day I go out in the car is a day I see someone driving like a maniac – and I live in the middle of nowhere, so that’s quite an achievement!
Having been unable to drive for the past three months, I was overjoyed to get my keys back and get back on the road . . . oh, the freedom!
Sadly, the novelty wore off rather abruptly, as I careered into the back of the car that thought it would be a great idea to overtake me just before a totally blind corner.
On rounding the bend to find an old gent pulled over to adjust his roof-rack and a queue of stationary traffic, my overtaker left me nowhere to go except right up his rear end, and I barely had time to say a prayer to the God of Necks before our bumpers crunched.
Thankfully, we all survived with no more than bumps, scratches and bruised egos, but it left me wondering, what on earth is the rush?
Once upon a time, drivers were happy to adjust their speed to the car in front, only overtaking when coming across a tractor, cyclist or very slow-moving vehicle.
But suddenly we have a rash of drivers who tear along country roads at incredible and unsafe speeds, overtaking every vehicle they come across without thought or hesitation, greedy to have the open road to themselves.
The trouble is, roads are rarely open these days and much more liable to have obstacles aplenty, hidden around every corner, as I am all too aware.
Now, I’m not averse to overtaking when the need arises, sometimes it’s the safest thing to do, but it should never be the rule to just plough through traffic, overtaking everything you come across, slow or not.
Perhaps I am getting old . . . or perhaps it’s just that the older one gets, the more corners one has rounded to come face to fleece with AWOL sheep scattered across the carriageway, lost pedestrians wandering, unexpectedly along the verge, stray dogs, frantically zig-zagging the road. You name it, I’ve seen it, and thankfully was driving carefully enough to avoid it too.
But this overtaking craze puts everyone at risk, whether you are the overtaker or the overtaken makes no difference in a pile-up.
So chill out, roadhogs – and remember as you tail-gate me, swerving out every few seconds to look for an overtaking opportunity, filling my rear-view mirror with your impatient face, that even if you do manage to get past me safely, you’ll only be saving an average 5-10 minutes on your overall journey.
Sounds like a waste of your precious time to me . . .
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I was coming into Newport along the Forton Road at around 7.00pm Saturady night
As i entered the built up area (30mph) near the Broomfield Estate i was aware of a new shape cream coloured Ford Fiesta that was right on my back bumper. It suddenly overtook me on a blind bend, and forced a Jaguar coming in the opposite direction, to mount the kerb to avoid a head on crash.
The fiesta then sped off at around 50mph down towards Newport Town Centre
But don’t worry mate, i remember the car
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No Emma, you’re not getting old. you’re just witnessing the actions of others who apparently have no aspirations in this direction. I had some of this on my last visit to the UK in May, tailgaters with not a second to lose, people overtaking in the face of oncoming traffic, you name I saw it, all in the space of 2 weeks. They wouldn’t last a day here without ending up killing someone, or themselves.
Very strange, and what do they save on the average journey?, probably a few minutes, hardly worth the risk but you will never educate these types. Keep plodding Emma, better to be 10 mins. late in this world than 10 years early in the next.
Very good blogs, keep them coming.
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The ones who really get my goat (and the sheep and the chickens come to think of it) are the people who overtake in the run-up to a roundabout. They rush past at speed and then slam the brakes on. Not only do they not gain anything, but they must be wearing out their brake pads.
The problem seems to be particularly bad at the Walker’s Clock Island in Donnington.
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Happened to me quite a few times there too. What do they gain out of it apart from being just one car length ahead? By the time you get on the road to Newport we all get stuck behind a combine harvester with no opportunity to overtake due to the oncoming.
And as for tail gaters, you sitting on my bumper makes me reach for the brake not the accelerator grrrrr!
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Hang on. You’re the one having a crash and criticising other people’s driving? Double standards I feel.
I’m just glad he hadn’t got a puncture and wasn’t in the road fixing it.
I wouldn’t say you were ‘getting old’, I’d argue you need to re-assess your driving style.
There are relatively few roads in this country where you have ‘nowhere to go’ as you should be constantly re-assessing your driving.
Speed isn’t dangerous. Inappropriate speed is dangerous.
Why don’t you use this experience to join with West Mercia Police/ Advanced Institute of Advanced Motoring/other driving bodies for a day or two and ‘Blog’ about it here.
Might be interesting for all.
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Hear Hear Matt!
The writer has a cheek criticising others when she has rear ended someone…
I think a revisit of the rules of the road are in order… someone overtakes on the blind bend – they have got in front of you then it is YOUR responsibility to slow down incase there is an incident like described.
Did the “maniac” manage to avoid the stationary vehicle? If so then it is 100% in the eyes of the law that it is Emma who was not driving within the limits of her skill.
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You guys sound as if you drive like this nutter that overtook the writer on a blind bend. How on earth was she meant to slow down in time if the idiot that overtook her pulled right in infront of her when he noticed the stationary vehicle. He should not have overtaken on a blind corner, end of story, sounds like your making excuses for his poor driving.
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Ever heard of two sides to every story?
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Dont be obtuse, Emma.
The “maniac” managed to avoid the stationary vehicle, but the writer didnt… In the eyes of the law, (and in my humble opinion), the writer is at fault… no matter what the manner of his driving, the person she ran into did not “deserve” to be rammed.
Cannot see how I am defending the “maniac”…
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I lost a very, Very good friend to someone overtaking after a blind bend only 3 weeks ago over at Uffington, and was appalled that only 24hrs later there was another accident in the same place.
It worries me to think that with the planned cuts by the government, that there will be less police to patrol the roads, and if you have an accident that there will be no fast response from the emergancy services (as they are too thinly streched to cover). And then you have to be taken miles out of the area as there is no A&E available at the local hospital.
Its not a positive outlook really, but how can this be changed?
There is nothing stopping someone getting in a car and driving badly, which is a pitty, and its only really highlighed when someone dies or is injured. When I learnt to drive in Shrewsbury, drivers would wave to say thank you when you give way and to some extent they still do. So if drivers know how to be curtious why cant they slow down a bit and stop driving so close. I remember a line off a bumper sticker, ‘I can stop, Can you?’
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I would like a bumper sticker that says “the closer you are to my backside the slower I am likely to go”.
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Why?
Is it because you’d like people to know that you’re the type of motorist who would do that – antagonise the driver behind and encourage them to overtake as soon as possible to get away from your pious ways.
Or is it because you would slow down, pull over and encourage them to overtake allowing both of you to continue your journey at your chosen speed?
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If anything like me, if someone is on my bumper I too slow down. They’re more likely to go into the back of my car and i’d prefer them to do this when slowed down and 40 than 60! I think they call it damage limitation
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Precisely, Tom; it also puts more distance between me and the person in front of me, prevents me from being pushed into them as well in the worst case scenario AND gives the idiot behind room to “squeeze” in if they must overtake.
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Sadly Emma, you are right. Impatience and aggression are everywhere. As others have said, I see far more tailgating and dangerous overtaking manouevures as they have no desire to wait… except that once they’ve overtaken you they shortly end up behind someone else.
On a bicycle it feels even worse. Drivers can’t possibly wait 10 or 15 seconds behind you so rev it hard and force past much too close. They cut you up around junctions and roundabouts, pull out of side roads, all for a few seconds. What do they do with this precious time? Wait in the queue at the next junction or set of lights.
This morning (Tuesday) on the roads around Shrewsbury there were three accidents causing big tailbacks. I would bet that at least two were caused by this kind of stupid driving.
The saddest thing is that so many people have no care for others’ welfare. Is a life worth so little nowadays?
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So why don’t cyclists use the cycle paths provided for their safety if the road is so intimidating?
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Probably because cycle path don’t cover 100% of the road network Speedy…
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Obviously speedy…
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No I know they’re not 100% so why don’t they use the cycle paths running adjacent to the road they are cycling down
Come on, give me an intelligent answer as to why a cyclist would rather slow down a 40 mile per hour road, enrage drivers and endanger themselves when there’s a perfectly good cycle path ooo what, 2 yards to the left?
Arrogance or sheer stupidity? And yes before you beat that drum I know they’re entitled to be on the road but surely safety rates higher than road entitlement.
Obviously not from the cyclists I end up trundling along behind.
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Because cycle lanes are frequently uneven, strewn with glass, ill maintained, often gated, slippy with leaves, not gritted during the winter and give right of way to the road user meaning progress is slow. They are also NOT COMPULSORY – and remember it’s less cars on the road meaning overall you get there overall faster…..
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Hold on one minute.
Everyday I have to overtake some self centred motorist who hasn’t got the confidence to drive faster than 40mph. We need to share the roads, if you want to drive slowly be aware that there are people who have the confidence to drive safely at 60mph. I work, I’m not retired and I’m not a mum pottering around to the shops or her friends for a cuppa.
Have some consideration you slow drivers.
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You forgot the smiley Seamus.
Or are you one of the legion of ignorant fools who think that playing the ‘swerve round this and dodge that, and lean on horn frequently’ arcade game on the road is a good idea?
Everyone out there is someone’s child. Treat them like you would you own.
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You should know that you should drive to the conditons of the road and then the speed limits.
You dont know why that person is only doing 40? Perhaps they have seen somthing that you have not.
Slow down and take care. The speed limit is a guide and not a target.
I am not retired I work for a living and i am a safe driver and yes i drive at the speed limit but i have consideration for others!
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I agree with Seamus. I will never overtake if it is unsafe for me or for others around me. However if i know i feel I can drive the road safety at a higher speed than you (within the speed limit) then I will be overtaking you!
I drive on quite a lot of country roads, and find it somewhat stange that those driving slowest around bends seem to be the ones taking the most insane lines through them, straying onto the wrong side of the road on blind bends/driving down the centre of the road etc.
In those cases I will get past you as soon as is safety possible because I think you are a danger to me.
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Every day of the week, commuting my 20,000 miles per year, it is clear that the act of driving at the speed limit on a trunk road where conditions permit is – sadly – becoming a dying art.
As such, I would hope that when I perform a safe overtake (which is always) that does not impede nor cause danger to overtakee, I am not considered an “agressive road hog”.
For those who steadfastly drive at 45mph in 60mph zones, I fully defend your right to do so. However, in reciprocation, I reserve the right to overtake you when safe to do so and resume my journey at a faster (but still legal) speed, without being judged a dangerous driver.
BTW, Emma, if you are reading this I would suggest brushing up on C.O.A.S.T. theory. You may have avoided crashing into the car in front.
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A few observations…..
Bear in mind roads have a speed limit – not a required speed. If someone wants to drive at 40 in a 60 they are breaking no laws.
Talking of bumper stickers, this might be appropriate – “Don’t drive faster than your guardian angel can fly”
Is there a website where you can name and shame dangerous drivers? Or just call the police, I’m sure they’ll do something!?
I am guessing the majority of the crazy drivers are young. When I was young and invincible I used to drive fast and loved it – drive fast and take risks was the general approach. However the only life I was risking was my own (generally speaking). There is substantially more traffic on the roads now as compared to 30 years ago – and a lot less speed cameras.
I’m done rambling.
Run the idiots off the road. Take away their drivers license. Accept that we all have to drive a little slower.
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Tyrone, that misconception about only risking your own life is common. Driving like that on public roads, even in rural areas, you were risking others’ lives too.
These days many of the worst drivers are middle-aged men in upmarket German cars and 4x4s. The police are not interested until someone is injured (meaning hospitalised) or killed, by which time it’s too late.
I’ve not heard of C.O.A.S.T but this works for me: Only a fool breaks the two second rule.
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Simon,
No misconception here, hence my “generally speaking”.
I am eternally grateful that during my youth the only harm I inflicted was upon rabbits, pheasants, the occasional hedge and my mums car (sorry mum).
Not everyone is as lucky as me (and thankfully all my friends). And with the benefit of a few more years under my ever expanding belt I can recognise that it was luck.
In time we all figure it out and we have to hope that in the meantime no one gets hurt or killed.
Better to get there late than not at all.
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Consideration
Observation
Anticipation
Space
Time
A theory taught by the Institute of Advanced Motorists, and detailed in RoadCraft.
Funnily enough, both the IAM manual and RoadCraft detail whole sections to the art of overtaking. So whilst others on here may wring their hands at the notion of being passed by someone, at least the IAM and Police drivers see it as a valuable string to their driving bow.
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Either I’ve totally misunderstood Emma’s original description of the accident or several others have.
She was driving along when someone overtook her on a blind bend, then found their progress blocked by a stationary vehicle.
So how was she at fault??
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I don’t think you’ve misunderstood her description Rob; I read it in exactly the same way as you have done.
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I thought that too
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Emma says
“overtake me just before a totally blind corner”
so not on the bend, just before it.
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All this bad driving was bound to happen when government decided to replace police patrols with speed cameras in the mistaken belief that cameras would identify mad drivers, bad drivers, drunken drivers, drugged drivers, rambling drivers, drivers in stolen cars, drivers in unroadworthy cars, etc. They don’t. They simply identify drivers going in excess of the relevant speed limit over a hundred yard stretch of road.
I’m also astounded at the amount of money spent on technology to monitor drivers and we STILL have thousands of uninsured, untaxed drivers on the road. SORN and ANPR were meant to be the big saviours, sweeping these illegal drivers off the road forever, but recent releases of information show that the problem is bigger then ever.
Sure, the law-abiding majority are being hit for genuine errors such as being on holiday when the tax runs out, but the problem lies with a growing core element who ignore the law anyway, trading cars that end up without a registered keeper and so cannot be identified if they cause an accident and drive away. The untaxed cars that pass the cameras on the motorway but don’t have an address to send the FPN to. The driver who is not insured but cannot be called upon later because the car has no registered keeper on DVLA records. The banned driver who persistently drives a car anyway.
None of these problems are going to be solved by camera, they need active policing. And don’t be fooled by the myriad police programmes on TV – you see the minority of cases, the edited highlights, the rare successes. Most criminals in cars are never chased for safety reasons of they’re just too clever / violent for the police to bother with.
And when criminals are caught, the courts need to hand down punishments that really are deterrents.
It costs me over £350 to insure my car. But if I drove it without insurance, the fine would be about £100 and some points on my licence. And if I happened to be “of limited means”, I could elect for a staggered payment of less than a packet of cigarettes a week. That’s no incentive to be insured. And points? Well if I drive without a licence, what does that matter anyway, even if, as the Sunday Times reports, there are drivers with 20, 30, 40 points on their licence who are still legally driving anyway.
If I committed the same offence and got caught every week, (unlikely), then even if my licence was taken away, I could still get into a car and drive it uninsured.
The last government’s efforts to increase revenue and “reduce poverty”, (i.e. target only certain sectors of society), allowed the problem to get worse.
Jail. A lot of it. That is the only answer for the core offenders. But with Ken Clarke deciding that it doesn’t work, expect to see more accidents and bad driving in the future.
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#4 Matt [Speed isn’t dangerous. Inappropriate speed is dangerous]
Sorry Matt but that is where you have got it entirely wrong.
Speed = less time to deal with an unexpected situation and greater impact should it be too late to avoid unexpected hazard.
What is appropriate is at any time a mere calculation and in law, foreseeable,legal and reasonable are the words that hold the greatest sway once an accident has occured.
A car accident can sometimes change a life from one of abled bodied to disabled in a thrice which is probably why you are so amazed Emma at the importance sad people seem to place on the mere satisfaction of getting to a destination quicker or maybe experiencing that pathetic thrill of believing their driving is better than the person they over took.
[seamus
[I’m not retired and I’m not a mum pottering around to the shops or her friends for a cuppa]
Your stereotypes of the sort of people who get in your way is laughable.
There are a large number of elderly men drivers who think that they are excellent drivers and gained most of their experience in the years before we started to legally give other road users better consideration.
They continue to drive too fast, impatiently and resent any methods of lowering speeds, like road humps, cameras etc.
As for women many are equally guilty of speeding and tail gating in my view, especially those that drive a great deal for work. Some, of course have large numbers of children passengers which can be enormously distracting and in itself is a hazard that it is rare to see men having to deal with, except perhaps at the beginning of holiday periods!
It doesn’t matter how many courses you take Emma, unfortunately there will always be so called ‘expert’ drivers on the road like Winja who seem more concerned with other peoples speeds than just getting from A to B. I assume Winja considers overtaking on a blind bend appropriate so he actually may find a driving course quite an education!
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Stop putting bloody words in my mouth.
I have not stated, nor even alluded to, in any of my posts that I consider overtaking on (or indeed shortly before) a blind bend. Not once.
Nor did I state that I am overly concerned with people’s speed on the road.
I will repeat again for you, eva, for you seem a little hard of reading: “For those who steadfastly drive at 45mph in 60mph zones, I fully defend your right to do so. However, in reciprocation, I reserve the right to overtake you when safe to do so and resume my journey at a faster (but still legal) speed, without being judged a dangerous driver.
See. I fully defend their right to do so, and my application of COAST theory permits me to complete a given journey safely, and without stress and hindrance to other drivers. In other words, A to B.
Just because I am passionate about driving, and indeed cars in general, and take interest in advanced driving techniques does not give you carte blanche to judge (not for the first time on here) my style of driving.
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I’ve always been of the opinion that all drivers should have to re-sit their driving test every 10 years. (By test I mean a proficiency in driving – as long as you aren’t dangerous, you should pass).
Also offer greater incentives to those wishing to improve their driving.
Every three years I have to (because of my job) take driving refreshers and am expected to show professionalism in my approach.
I exceed the speed limit at times, have never had an accident or a speeding ticket.
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Reading the blog it appears that Emma was in the wrong because, although the guy overtook her before the corner (which is ok because it obviously wasn,t ON a blind bend, Emma then continued to stay too close (maybe a case of road rage on her part?)It then seems that the guy in front stopped ok (driving at a speed in which he was able to stop within his line of sight)but she didn’t…verdict Emmas fault, which no doubt will be born out in her insurance claim or his against her.
As for Emma thinking she is getting TOO old, looking at her picture she still has a lot of experience to get under her belt yet, which is borne out of the fact that she got herself in such a pickle.
Us older drivers will remember when the NSL was 70MPH and there were not so many people driving at 40MPH as there are these days. People need to reassess their driving and try to drive within the limit but without causing tailbacks which I see so mucgh more of these days than ever before.
Funny thing is, I don’t suffer from tailgaters because I drive at a sensible speed which doesn’t hold many people up and if I see someone behind me who is obviously in a greater hurry than me, I assist them to get past. If I was constantly being “tailgated” I would qestion if it was me doing something wrong.
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I defer to the greater knowledge of this particular accident that some of you obviously have access to, i.e. “the guy overtook her before the corner” – so that was what, half a mile before or 20 feet? “Emma then continued to stay too close” – for two seconds or five minutes?
….and my favourite: “I exceed the speed limit at times, have never had an accident or a speeding ticket” – well lucky old you -
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Roadrunner…I always drive bang on 60 or 70 when i can, depepnding on single or dual cariageway, which is most of the time around oswestry and shrewsbury and I still get a constant line of impatient people who speed up behind me and overtake. So driving at the top end of the limit still does not prevent these ‘tailgaiting’ idiots who are in some kind of hurry. The thing which winds me up is that I end up meeting them again at the next roundabout so they have in actual fact got no further on their journey and have not got there quicker. Why jeopardise lives speeding dangerously?
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Emma was in the wrong. The overtaker would appear to have safely overtaken her. She rear-ended the overtaker. Accident is her fault.
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In theory that may be so, but look at it another way.
I travel Eastbound along the M54 where I exit at junction 4. Every day, the left hand lane is filled with HGVs which may be fitted with speed limiters, and an infuriating Ford Fiesta driver who insists on travelling at 50mph. This leads to a build up of traffic in the left lane some of which leaves at J4.
Without fail, I see them: drivers in the outside lane who have misjudged their distance and who also wish to leave at J4. Their solution? to force their way in front of me drastically reducing my stopping distance.
I’m then forced to brake (often quite sharply) or reduce speed. If the other car barges its way in and then creates an accident by, say hitting whatever is in front of me, am I to blame if I am no longer able to stop in time?
Trust me, it happens almost daily and shows that things are not as clear cut as they may initially appear.
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“the left hand lane is filled with HGVs which may be fitted with speed limiters, and an infuriating Ford Fiesta driver who insists on travelling at 50mph.”
Hmmm, where should that Fiesta driver be? Wouldn’t you hate them if they ‘hogged’ the middle lane?
If the left hand lane is full of HGVs anyway, I don’t see how one car makes it worse (no, it’s not me :) )
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Kath – it may have escaped your notice, but there is no middle lane on the M54. If the driver of that Fiesta feels unable to travel above 50mph on a motorway (conditions allowing of course), then I would have to question his or her suitability as a driver.
The point I was making was: when a car forces its way into the gap between myself and the vehicle ahead, then he or she will have significantly reduced my stopping distance. As they very often leave it to the last minute when doing so, who is to blame if I’m no longer able to stop should they cause an accident?
As I said before, things are not always as clear cut as they may appear.
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What if they are running on a spare, (space saving), tyre?
Should they abandon their vehicle on the hard shoulder?
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“….and my favourite: “I exceed the speed limit at times, have never had an accident or a speeding ticket” – well lucky old you -”
Rob, I never said that, someone else did.
Emma should have dropped back whenever she was overtaken, to leave a safe gap between herself and the guy overtaking her, who was obviously travelling at a safe enough speed to stop, unlike Emma who obviously was travelling too fast for either her slow reactions or the gap that she left. If she couldn’t stop at the speed that she was travelling and yet the guy who was travelling faster than her(and overtook) could, then she really does need to re assess her driving skills.
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Sorry I didn’t make it clear enough that I was quoting from two comments by different people – which is why I referred to “some of you”.
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The thing is, you can’t really judge the writer because how do u know that she had enough time to stop? Often enough overtakers push infront without a care like mark says. The accident was not her fault, because if there was a blind bend coming up, nobody should be even considering overtaking until the bend has passed. The overtaker may not have gone into the stationary vehicle because they had more time than the writer to notice it-from being infront of her,so they may have just swerved out in time and carried on their journey.
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I used to think like some of the posters on this thread, but a few years ago I read this;
http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2008/sep/20/fiction
It’s good to have your default settings adjusted once in a while and the key is – you may be the centre of your universe, but you’re not the centre of *the* universe.
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The acid test for me is that if you drive to the speed limit (road conditions permitting) then you will have some pillock trying to overtake you roughly every few minutes and the car you were following will disappear into the distance whenever you reach a 30mph limit.
Obey the speed limit (road conditions permitting) to the letter of the law and you will be the only person doing so as far as the eye can see.
Emma’s original theory is correct. There are too many idiots on the road. Far too many.
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Your right julian, I drive safely and to the law and it seems I am the only one doing so. Why do people think the law was created? There are reasons for all rules and they should be adhered to.
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Absolutely. There are reasons for all rules and they should be adhered to.
With the exception of carrots, most goods may not be sold on Sunday.
Hackney Carriages (taxis/cabs) must carry a bale of hay and a sack of oats.
It is illegal for a lady to eat chocolates on a public conveyance.
So next time you hail a black cab, check carefully for oats and hay. Don’t get in unless they’re clearly present. If you’re taking the cab to the supermarket, please make sure you’re only intending to buy carrots. And whatever you do, leave that Kit Kat in your handbag until you get out of the taxi.
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Really?
It’s now Thursday evening, and since Monday – driving along the A5 between Telford and Cannock at 60mph – I’ve been overtaken twice.
Both times safely, in my opinion (the passes did not cause either myself or oncoming traffic to alter their speed or direction).
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As far as I can tell from the account of the accident, Emma had been overtaken by another vehicle.
The driver of that other vehicle then encountered an obstacle in the road, reacted promptly and managed to slow sufficiently to avoid the aforementioned obstacle.
Emma, on the other hand, did not react promptly enough, probably didn’t brake hard enough (there’s evidence that people don’t push the pedal hard enough in many accidents – some manufacturers fit ‘brake assist’ technology to counter this tendency), and as a result hit the car which overtook her.
Doesn’t sound like the other driver’s fault to me.
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Obviously it’s difficult to judge without being there but that’s how I read it.
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“#4 Matt [Speed isn’t dangerous. Inappropriate speed is dangerous]
Sorry Matt but that is where you have got it entirely wrong.”
Eva, I don’t think that the IAM and Police drivers, as well as 90% of other sensible drivers, would agree with you on this.
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Thanks roadrunner, I was going to point that out.
To clarify as Eva obviously didn’t understand. I’d argue it’s safer to 90mph on a clear dry straight empty motorway, than it is to do 35mph outside a school at 3.30 on a wet January afthernoon.
Having driven Emergengency vehicles (Police and Fire) for over 15 years I can say that with some confidence.
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[Every three years I have to (because of my job) take driving refreshers and am expected to show professionalism in my approach.
I exceed the speed limit at times, have never had an accident or a speeding ticket.]
But you are breaking the law Matt.
Laws that exist for the benefit of other road users not just you.
I take it you don’t speed when taking your refresher course?
Nistagmus your link was brilliant but too erudite for the ‘expert’ drivers here, I’m afraid.
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Eva, I’m unsure of your ramblings especially thread 26. Firstly I have never mentioned a pedestrian in any thread, therefore I cannot comment. You are quite insulting to others and I feel you would extend this in the form of inconsideration to other road users when driving. The fact that you feel inappropriate speed is not a problem seriously concerns me.Secondly I shave my eyebrows as they can become quite bushy somewhat resembling Dennis Healy and i never tend to row with the wife as she normally wins.In response to one of your other comments then yes, during my ‘refresher’ training I both break the speed limit and do not break the law.
The benefits of blue lights m’dear.
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Eva, it would appear that Emma has proved you wrong and Matt to be right. Emma wasn’t “speeding” but obviously using inappropriate speed for the circumstances and yet she had the accident…who got it wrong there then?
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I recently moved to Shropshire, to a small Hamlet next to the B4368. The speed limit is clearly signed and is 40mph. I have been astounded by the speeds that people pass my house. I have been driving for an accident free 25+ years and I have also raced semi-professionally, I am a trained close protection driver and a UK police trained advanced pursuit driver , I wouldn’t drive on this road, at this time of year (harvest) or any time of year at the speeds some idiots think is OK.
Sadly the reason the speed limit is 40 is due to a number of deaths in recent years, with cars losing control and crashing into our houses, there are bunches of flowers placed regularly right outside my place.
Every idiot has the right to act an idiot, my main concern is that the car that hits my house takes my children out while playing in the garden. I happily look drivers straight in the eye as they drive past at high speed, even had one recently slow down to wind his window down and give me the finger, more fool him really as at least he slowed down and I’ve had worse insults in my life.
It would be easy to say that it’s youth and ignorance but actually I find it is mainly middle aged men in 4x4s or middle aged women who can’t see the speed limit signs becuase they are busy with a phone in one hand and checking their hair in the mirror.
On the odd occasion that the speed camera van pitches up it’s quite a nice road to live near, not often enough though.
Sadly it is the one blight on an otherwise beautiful place to live.
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“Roadrunner…I always drive bang on 60 or 70 when i can, depepnding on single or dual cariageway, which is most of the time around oswestry and shrewsbury and I still get a constant line of impatient people who speed up behind me and overtake. So driving at the top end of the limit still does not prevent these ‘tailgaiting’ idiots who are in some kind of hurry.”
Emma, the secret is to concentrate on your own driving and not to worry about the people behind you,or those overtaking you, they can take care of themselves.
By concentrating on your own driving whilst being aware of what is going on around you but not worrying about it, you will have less accidents yourself.
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“[Every three years I have to (because of my job) take driving refreshers and am expected to show professionalism in my approach.
I exceed the speed limit at times, have never had an accident or a speeding ticket.]
But you are breaking the law Matt.
Laws that exist for the benefit of other road users not just you.
I take it you don’t speed when taking your refresher course?”
Answer me this though , Eva, who would you sooner be a passenger with? Someone like Matt who occassionally “breaks the law” but doesn’t have accidents or someone like Emma who keeps within the speed limit but runs into the backs of others?
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On the subject of speed limits…
On a dual carriageway, with a speed limit of 70mph, is it okay to drive at 69mph, or is that dangerous? It’s 1mph below the speed limit, so it can’t be dangerous, can it?
What if the speed limit is reduced to 60mph, like it was on the Eastern Primary in Telford: is it still okay to drive at 69mph, or is that dangerous? It’s 9mph – 15% – above the speed limit. That’s got to be pretty dangerous.
How about the section of dual carriageway that runs between J4 of the M54 and Stafford Park industrial estate in Telford. That used to have a 70mph limit, now it’s 50mph. It used to be legal to drive at 69mph there, but if you did that now you’d be exceeding the speed limit by a whopping 19mph – that’s 38% over the limit, yet the road is exactly the same as it always was. So why is it that one day 69mph was safe, yet the next day only idiots would drive at that speed?
The law is the law and speed limits need to be adhered to in order to avoid falling foul of it, but in my opinion speed limits and safe driving speeds are NOT necessarily related, as the above scenarios illustrate. People who preach otherwise do need to take a step down from the moral high ground and accept that exceeding the posted speed limit does not automatically constitute a dangerous, aggressive and careless driving attitude.
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Dear dear roadrunner, you need to go on an anger management course.
You posts are never making a valid or useful point but are a constant ego trip regarding your own supposed driving superiority and made up personal jibes at other posters, particularly those you believe to be female.
Lynx Pilot (are you male or female, not that it really matters? My neighbour’s sister flew tornados in the Raf)
Matt is the sort of driver who could be the one to to be exceeding the speed limit when your children are crossing the road. He does not respect the pedestrian’s right to be able to use the road safely.
He could be one of those blokes you see checking their eyebrows aren’t too bushy in the mirror whilst having a row on the phone with the wife
#18 roadrunner(which is ok because it obviously wasn,t ON a blind bend, !!!!!
[Julia Wiles, of Llanerfyl, near Welshpool, was killed just a mile from home as she came around a bend and collided with a vehicle which was overtaking on a blind corner.]
[“The prosecution say that he started to overtake just before a left hand bend on the brow of a hill in the dark,” said Mr King.
“He could not possibly have known if there was anything coming the other way.”]
#21
Eva, it would appear that Emma has proved you wrong and Matt to be right. Emma wasn’t “speeding” but obviously using inappropriate speed for the circumstances and yet she had the accident…who got it wrong there then?]
So the overtaker that she is not supposed to see because she should be concentrating on the road ahead not on what is happening behind her according to you was not driving even faster at a very inappropriate speed?
Take Winja with you BTW. In the sad case of this lady motorcyclist who was killed it was called a bad error of judgement in court! No amount of courses can prevent accidents when people do not feel they have to follow the highway code and common sense tells most of us that you should not overtake before a bend and cannot see sufficent road ahead.
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“So the overtaker that she is not supposed to see because she should be concentrating on the road ahead not on what is happening behind her…”
Drivers should always be aware of what’s happening all around them, not just in front. It’s one reason cars have mirrors. Actually, it’s the only reason cars have mirrors.
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Can anyone here, apart from Eva, understand this one and put it into English?….;-)
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I think she’s trying to explain to you that driving too fast and overtaking on a bend is not a skill, its a danger to other road users, but unfortunatly your not having this because you think you’re some kind of Top Gun car pilot who has the right to drive at a risk to others just because you don’t know how to adjust your alarm clock to get up 10 minutes earlier so you can drive from A to B at a reasonable speed..
Grow up mon, that kind of thing doesn’t impress girls anymore..
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I don’t think anyone on here is saying that driving TOO fast and overtaking ON a bend is sensible, unless you have spotted something that I haven’t Spencer.
It would seem that like Eva, you too need some anger management, calm down man it leads to safer driving.
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I’m the best driver in the world so i can drive as fast as i want. Thats what makes me a real man so get out of my way girls..
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Orginal jake wrote
“The law is the law and speed limits need to be adhered to in order to avoid falling foul of it, but in my opinion speed limits and safe driving speeds are NOT necessarily related, as the above scenarios illustrate. People who preach otherwise do need to take a step down from the moral high ground and accept that exceeding the posted speed limit does not automatically constitute a dangerous, aggressive and careless driving attitude.”
You are right jake, keeping within speed limits and safe driving are not normally related, someone who constantly drives at 40mph in a 60mph limit is likely to antagonise drivers who just want to get from A to B. Pottering around in a daze is just as dangerous as driving like Lewis Hamilton on speed.
I cover about 30k a year and when road conditions are right I know how to make “good progress”. where I draw my personal line is in built up areas and in 20/30/40 mph zones, they are normally there for good reason and I guess ignoring this is what annoys most people (I could be wrong!). I stick to them rigidly, even when on my R1. if I can do it why can’t others? I would class breaching these limits as careless and somewhat wreckless, i would also throw in inconsiderate.
I am not talking here about doing 45 in a 40, I am talking about exceeding 80 in a 40 when there is driving rain at night, no street lighting, mud on the roads, diesel spills, the odd badger going for a walk and an adverse camber on the bend. Or doing 70+ in a 40 on a nice day when my kids are trying to cross the road. It may seem safe to the driver, who could be very experienced. Let’s face it nobody likes to have their driving skills criticised even if they actually have none, it’s a British thing.
And apart from this the noise level increases dramatically with speed, cars and heavy vehicles going past at 40 is hardly noticeable, 60 is a different matter, the house shakes! (I realise that it’s my fault for living here but imagine that you did).
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Eva,
Firstly I don’t need anger management, I am very laid back and don’t get angry even when driving because i drive defensively, which means that I have time foresee hazards and don’t let them or other bad drivers catch me unaware…but I don’t expect you to understand that statement in the slightest.
I don’t understand half of your ramblings so can’t really answer some of it but the fact is,no matter what speed you are travelling or who overtakes you, YOU are the person who is responsible if you run into the back of someone else, it’s no use blaming other road users for your shortfalls.
Safe driving isn’t just about how fast or slowly you tarvel it’s 95% about observation and allowing for other road users to make mistakes around you and be aware of what’s happening and then to be able to react in sufficient time to compensate for the hazard or bad behaviour of others.
All too often I see drivers well within the speed limit but drivings SOOO badly, not paying attention, poor road positioning, not using mirrors or indicating, entering islands too fast to be able to control their car should a hazard present itself and cutting acroos lanes.
I would expect you to condone such driving as no speed limits have been broken or in your eyes, no laws broken.
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I have not commented on Emmas driving roadrunner so how could I condone it? Whereas you seem to have rewritten the whole incident despite not being there (or was it you overtaking before that bend?)
It does seem ironic that it is the same drivers overtaking inappropriately that also consider their driving to be so superior that speeding is acceptable too.
I got the impression from the original blog that Emma was just asking why people are so desperately obsessed with getting to their destination so fast and as a result take unnecessary risks.
If you cannot read plain English roadrunner then add a reading class to your list of must dos and try not to contradict yourself so much!
[Funny thing is, I don’t suffer from tailgaters because I drive at a sensible speed which doesn’t hold many people up and if I see someone behind me who is obviously in a greater hurry than me, I assist them to get past. If I was constantly being “tailgated” I would qestion if it was me doing something wrong.]
[Emma, the secret is to concentrate on your own driving and not to worry about the people behind you,or those overtaking you, they can take care of themselves.
By concentrating on your own driving whilst being aware of what is going on around you but not worrying about it, you will have less accidents yourself.]
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Eva, you sem to be adding nothing constructional to this debate apart from insults to myself and all who disagree with Emma. I don’t need reading lessons thank you Eva althouygh I do have great difficulty in trying to understand what you are trying to say and I take that as an insult. I can only assume from your lack of understanding of what I am saying that either you don’t drive yourself or English isn’t your first language and if that is the case, I appologise for trying to get you to understand the complexeties of safe driving.
For your information, I’ve driven over a million miles in the 37 years taht I have been driving without running into the back of anyone even in severe wintery conditions and I do admit to exceeding some speed limits when they seem in-appropriate so maybe exceeding a speed limit isn’t so dangerous as poor observation and not leaving a good distance to stop. You never did answer my previous question.
Which was …”Answer me this though , Eva, who would you sooner be a passenger with? Someone like Matt who occassionally “breaks the law” but doesn’t have accidents or someone like Emma who keeps within the speed limit but runs into the backs of others?”
Do you understand the question because it would be interesting to know your opinion on it.
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“It does seem ironic that it is the same drivers overtaking inappropriately that also consider their driving to be so superior that speeding is acceptable too.”
Really? Do you have proof of this?
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Indeed. It’s a valid question.
What is clear from these comments is that any driver exceeding a speed limit (by any margin whatsoever), or has the bare faced cheek and effrontery to overtake (no matter how safely, legally, and without causing other drivers to change speed and / or direction) is either subject to barely-disguised ad hominem attacks (hold up your hand eva), or labelled aggressive / greedy / impatient / idiot.
I suggest these people attend anger management courses, or at least attempt to progress their driving further than reading the bloody Highway Code. That book teaches nothing about observational linking / different steering input techniques / brake-gear overlap avoidance / position for observation and the IPSG system of driving.
Perhaps if they did, they could then post comments on here and await to be condescendingly termed an “expert driver”. When the truth is there are people out there who take pride in their driving, and see every journey as an opportunity to learn.
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Oddly, I find this diametrically contradicts my experience: people seem oddly unwilling to overtake these days, instead confine themselves to tailgating whoever’s holding them up despite perfectly adequate passing opportunities eluding them. Traffic proceeds in tight little bunches at a few mph below the limit meaning anyone who still wants to overtake has to have a straight the length of the Area 51 runway to accomplish it legally.
But I am speaking from Dorset, so maybe this is a geographical difference.
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One more thing. Emma says:
“Once upon a time, drivers were happy to adjust their speed to the car in front, only overtaking when coming across a tractor, cyclist or very slow-moving vehicle.”
So (apart from making it up) she’s implying that all drivers should just accept the speed of the driver in front, whether they want to go faster or not.
Now who’s selfish?
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Emma, you say that you drive safely and to the law. You obviously aren’t doing both because if you were driving safely you wouldn’t run into the back of people. You say that you drive on the limit when you can, maybe you should slow down when following people , especially when they overtake you…try dropping back to a safe distance, even if it means driving below the limit. You say that people overtaking you “winds you up” when they are only just in front at the next island. Maybe you should think about WHY you are feeling “wound up” and if this is affecting your driving and concentration levels. People who drive while being “wound up” are more likely to have accidents. Try and drive less aggressively.
I’m not having a go at you, just offering some advice from someone who has driven for many more years and a lot more miles than yourself.
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Emma, it is surprising that you do not see more ‘pope-mobiles’ on the road isn’t it?
The size of head some of the diver/posters on here have, it would be the ideal car, don’t you agree! ;)
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if one has to observe a speed limit i-e 50 -40
what is wrong with going at a steady pace all the time i find that whatever speed one goes at one will still be overtaken when i travel in beutifull surroundings i want to safely
appreciate it–not shoot through like a bullet
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Would love to be the claims adjudicator on her insurance claim! She rear ended a car, this means she was going too fast for the conditions and couldn’t stop. Thank goodness it was the other car and not somebody who had stepped into the road or an escaped or wild animal.
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All the drivers who think they can break the speed limit safely (and perhaps they can – sometimes) forget that they are not alone on the roads. I’ve found that the vast majority of drivers overestimate their ability behind the wheel, their reaction times, safe stopping distances, and get very complacent.
Too many people also brush off near misses on the road as an inevitability, a simple fact of life. Perhaps they should read Lynn Sloman’s book ‘Car Sick’, particularly the section on the Accident Pyramid.
Emma, there are plenty of us abiding by speed limits. It’s just that you won’t see me filling your rear view mirror and itching to get past, as I’m making my journey in a similar fashion to you.
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This definitely sounds like the writer was almost entirely at fault. From the information we have it clearly indicates a basic failure of all of the COAST principles not “C”oncentrating and “O”bserving all around you, “A”nticipating the overtake and slowing down therefore allowing “S”pace and “T”ime to stop in the distance you can see to be clear.
If coming up to a blind bend you can’t possibly know what is beyond the vanishing point of the road meaning you have to adjust your speed appropriately for the stopping distance you can see to be clear. You stated you crashed _around_ the corner into stationery traffic so my ‘accident report’ is that you ended up travelling at an inappropriate speed for the prevailing conditions by failing to observe.
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