LETTER: I would like to correct Mr Thomas on the scale for teaching – this can be variable depending on experience and where you teach – and is not always £600 a week as he stated in his letter.
As a hard-working deputy head in a challenging, but very rewarding school, I would like to express my upset and disgust at his letter.
The profession does not receive enough recognition and views such as these make it harder each year to recruit good teachers.
Teaching is an extremely difficult, demanding and intellectual profession – it requires a passion, commitment and love for the job.
The hours we work are most certainly not 9am to 3pm and the 12-week “holidays” are not time for us to sit at home.
As most teachers will tell you they spent their half- term holiday writing class reports, analysing data to ensure they had planned personalised learning, marking books and a doing multitude of other tasks.
At our school all our teachers are there at least until 6pm each night, take work home and are there during holidays too – getting their classroom ready.
Please Mr Thomas consider talking to teachers to gain the facts.
A little respect and giving us the time to do this job and not comparing us to politicians who have “played a system of expenses” would be appreciated.
Carla Whelan
Telford
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24 Comments
Here we go again yes it is hard work, yes you are paid a wage which is more than enough not as much as some but you are all aware of the salary/conditions when you enter it. Please stop acting as though you are doing the general pubic a favour. The hours worked are not that long some people work longer hours especialy the elf employed .Stop telling the general public how good you are or how clever you think you are . And finaly stop whinging the country are tired of hearing it.
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The ‘elf employed’? That Santa is a blooming slave driver!
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Carla, you must take us all for idiots – what do you think other people do in their jobs?
I agree with the Finch #1, lots of other people put in the hours, prepare and take work home.
So all 12 weeks are spent marking, crying and getting the class room ready are they?
Teachers have always whinged and unfortunately, always will… but please no more where I can see, hear or read it.
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Is the person sending in this letter serious?
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Sorry for spelling errors in my first post anger got the better of me.
Respect many teachers i am afraid need to earn it.
(Teaching is an extremely difficult, demanding and intellectual profession)
and you have to have a very high opinion of yourself and a low one of every other proffesion and do not forget to have an M tattooed on your forhead standing for me me me me oh and me .
As an employer if i want to know if an employee is doing what they are paid to do and not slacking off i would not ask them i would use an outside body to check on them does this deputy head think we are all gullible? it is my honest belief many techers are not up to the job quite correct you do have to be special to be surrounded by 25 kids all day but lets face it, that is only for around 5 hours with the full support of poorly paid teaching assistants. Teachers are allocated time for marking and work preperation and please if the writer could tell us on a teachers employee contract how many days holidays does it state???? they are to get???? . If they are working in them then they are not manageing their time correctly. Finaly PLEASE PLEASE TEACHERS DEPUTY HEADS REMEMBER you are employees and are accountable to your tax paying employer. So you show some respect and the odd few i have met some manners wouldnt go a miss either.
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I think you’re all missing the point of this letter. The author isn’t moaning about what a hard life teachers have, but simply responding to inaccuracies in an earlier letter.
She points out that not all teachers get £600 per week – but doesn’t complain about her pay, and she also points out that many teachers work fairly long hours – far longer than the school day, but again doesn’t complain about this – only about the misrepresentation in the previous letter.
Why do you all have such a problem with her adressing these inaccuracies? Would you perhaps prefer that people are kept in ignorance?
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Carla,
Thank you for your letter, but with due respect the system is not working in spite of what you claim. Students leave school without the necessary skills in language, arithmetic, geography etc., to enter college or find worthwhile employment. Maybe you should take a second look at what you are doing and make changes to curriculum or method. It would also be a good idea to revisit the purpose and aims of public education and reflect on its past mistakes as well as its successes.
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Best answer ive seen so far on many articles critisising God,s gift to the world i.e teachers,is that they actually clock on in the morning ,clock off dinner time , and clock off at night.Iv,e worked on school premises in various jobs and as a lorry driver observed school car parks and watched the teachers cars roll in on many an occasion and it,s about the 9 am mark.Without a doubt SENIOR STAFF seem to be on the premises early but as stated CLOCKING ON proves it.Weve trusted politicians for yrs and look whats emerging.You dont read such constant critisism about other professions eg medical
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Peter read between the lines of course she is moaning about poor conditions bla bla bla.
We all know all teachers are not on the same pay etc .I am sorry but some things you hear such as “we were in to the early hours 7 days a week” and all that rubbish. Have you ever listend at an NUT gathering you wouldnt believe the rubbish they spout.
As with other proffesion come on it is 2009, time for an update modernisation is required outside body to decide what they actualy do and stop this full pay when they are off sick rubbish . What is the sickness rate amongst teachers how much is it costing the tax payer ?.
Ban them from striking and HOW ABOUT THEM DOING AS THEY ARE TOLD far to many do not seem to see themselves as employees with comments such as we are not going to do the sats ? whats all that about if they are told to do something by their employer they should do it not debate it .
They should all be forced to work in the real world for at least five years as they are not giving their pupils a experiance round view of it before going in to teaching have you met one who has? i have and they are different.
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i think teachers are worth every penny they earn. i just wish there was more discipline and respect for the law as there was in 1958 when i left school. sadly discipline and respect starts with the parents and involving their children in a religeous upbringing. even sadder is the church of england abdicating their responsibilities over the last 50 years.
so the teachers are left with a most difficult task of trying to teach an ill disciplined mob. hopefully there are a few exceptions.
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Andrew,
There is already an independent outside body which monitors the progress and work of teachers – it’s called OFSTED.
As far as the curriculum is concerned, this is determined these days at a national level, and teachers are constrained by this and associated targets in respect of what they can and can’t teach.
As for not allowing the right to strike, and not paying for sick leave – don’t be ridiculous – these are both basic, hard won entitlements and rights, and subject to legal scrutiny. Only an exploitative employer would seek to try to get around these. Are you suggesting that our public sector employers whether at a national or local level should reduce themselves to the level of a sweat shop? Don’t forget that teachers and other public servants are PAYE taxpayers too – no ‘cash in hand’ or tax dodges for them!
Given the atrocious grammar and spelling of your comment you clearly didn’t get as much out of your education as you should have, and that’s a pity, and may have given rise to something of a chip on your shoulder, but please don’t seek to belittle those who are trying to ensure that today’s scholars are given better opportunities.
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CHEAP SHOTS peter old chap. Poor grammer etc that is correct i have . I am also selfemployed and doing fine so no problems their in the current climate. I have no chip on my shoulder why should i?? i earn more than the poor hard done by teachers it seems and have better conditions. How ever i worked in a school enviroment for 16 years on low pay and i saw the real picture of what teachers/lecturers got up to thank you.
Your proffesion(if you are ateacher) is one of the few left with full pay when off sick it should be stopped may be a few less days of sick ??. peter Please do nor belittle an individual on a public forum becouse of grammer if this is what you are like as a teacher with pupils who are having trouble?its a worry dont you think?? i could be dyslexic . And yes we have offsted one problem they let you know they are on the way gives time to prepare i remember before offsted arrival corridors full of kids on arrival of offsted corridors empty on time class being tought on time.
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Particularly in response to Peter (#6)
Reference “missing the point of the letter”
To Quote Carla:
” The profession does not receive enough recognition and views such as these make it harder each year to recruit good teachers.
Teaching is an extremely difficult, demanding and intellectual profession – it requires a passion, commitment and love for the job.
The hours we work are most certainly not 9am to 3pm and the 12-week “holidays” are not time for us to sit at home ”
Now… it seems to me that what Carla has said above, could apply to almost any profession.
Yes – “Professionals Need love, compassion and commitment – and work long hours, AND get poor recognition – so … WHAT makes teaching any different??
I’ve been a Professionally qualifed Electronic Computing and Electrical Engineer for 40+ years.
I work VERY long hours, and I’ll wager that I’m MUCH less respected in any “gathering of poeple” than a teacher!! , AND perversly .. I’ll also wager that I’m a lot more qualifed than most others in such a group !
Having seen both of my children through school, and having had many contacts with teachers througout that period, both in school, and through social contact, I have to say that the Teachers lot is not that demanding.
In many cases teachers that I spoke to had very narrow views on life, and had no real concept of what it is really like to hold down a job in “real life”.
It was also quite evident to me that many of them that I spoke to were what I call “Permanent Students”, that is:
They had never been outside of the classroom, from their own school days through university, teacher training, and finally to “the chalk face”.
No one is denying that Teaching is difficult. I would NOT want to be a teacher, particularly where young people or children are concerend. There isn’t enough control and discipline that teachers can exert these days, and that must make their life difficult.
BUT – the job isn’t as demanding as most other professions, the hours aren’t long, and job security (and pensions.. ) would seem to be very good.
So in conclusion..
Stop the whinging teachers, life “ain’t” that bad. Just get on with it.
We all have to.
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Maybe I have read a different letter to some of you, but all the lady seems to be doing is defending her profession, just like you are askeric. Teachers, like many others do have a hard job. And im glad that a lady cares enough about her profession to try and defend it.
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Why is this one group of public service workers allowed to have their salaries not published?
I have worked in schools had my own children and are related to teachers in the extended family.
Not one does what I would call a full day, five days a week. Quite a few have second homes abroad, some have second jobs or are councillors and some have played the property market, teachers being considered a gift to banks and building societies.
Some schools are tough and have problems filling posts. Some have staff there for many decades.
The biggest problem with the job is in my view,competitiveness with other staff and bullying.
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Andrew,
No – I’m not a teacher. I work in the private sector. As for your assertion that teaching is one of the few jobs that attracts full pay whilst off sick – that is complete nonsense.
All of the companies I’ve ever worked for have always offered full pay for being off sick – most for up to six months, though fortunately I’ve never had occasion to make use of this.
I can’t think of a single decent employer that doesn’t offer at least some period of sick leave on full pay.
You must have worked for some pretty atrocious employers if you’ve not been able to claim pay whilst off sick. Presumably you resent people claiming maternity leave or parental leave when a child is born too? Why on earth shouldn’t teachers be entitled to pay when they’re ill just like everyone else?
Askeric – you may think the writer is whingeing – but you must also acknowledge that teachers don’t just work from 9am until 3pm as the original letter claimed, and which is refuted in the reply above. Similarly, you must also acknowledge that not all teachers are paid £600 per week, and that they do actually work in their ‘holidays’. Was Carla supposed to leave these urban myths unchallenged?
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I am selfemployed so do not get paid to doss around with a sniffle.And i question your view that most pay full pay when off sick they do not i did work in the education sector as support staff and yes full pay was given to all staff when off sick and i saw it abused six months off with so called stress to return when the pay went down to half pay after six months but it is not the norm in the private sector do your home work nothing to do with poor employees employers are not a charity for godsake have you seen the figures when full pay is withdrawn the sick rate drops through the floor that is why many companys offer incentives now to staff to maintain a period of no sick days off . I do not resent maternity leave pay they are our future work force. I do not pay full sick pay to my employees however stataury sick pay after a stipulated period is payed and i deal with some of the biggest employers in the county and they do not pay full pay when off sick hence the need for the staff i supply.Also i think you will find in the public sector it is where most full pay when off sick is given NO i have no chip i just dont like being taken for a fool and dont like the idle to ripp me off as a tax payer.Also peter if you do not work in education or have not worked in education what ae you baseing your views on?? if you need to know what goes on in education ask support staff or ex support staff it is a case of what the butler saw .
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I have to endorse Andrew Finch’s observations on this thread! … albeit if he would only make the effort to correct spelling and grammar errors he would give his diatribe the impact of an 88mm shell! ….. only a suggestion Andrew … not a criticism! …..
I spent my boyhood in Wartime Britain and my teachers were aging weary men! …. (younger men were doing military service) and was one of that gray mass of youth who having not been selected for the infamous 11+ were destined to be aimed at the Lathe and the Mill! … Most of us accepted this with enthusiasm and indeed went on to become indentured apprentices and eventually fully qualified tradesmen! .. alas successive Governments raped the Country and sold off it’s manufacturing base together with it’s skilled workforce to the highest bidder! ..
At no time during my time in the workforce was I ever paid by an employer for being off work through sickness! …. indeed many times I have been at work when in truth I should have been at home and I can vouch that many of my peers did the same! …. you may ask why? … it is plain and simple! …. you could not afford to be sick! …. when I read of Teachers and Civil Servants bemoaning their lot I have to align myself alongside Andrew Finch and agree that these individuals don’t have a clue about the “Real World” and the “Me Me Me” culture is very much alive and well! ..
The other fact that Teachers and Others in the Public Sector should realise is that we who are moving in to our so called Golden Years maybe aging but we are not Blind and we are as yet far from Stupid and I for one see abuse on a daily basis in my locale! ……….
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Peter,
There are millions of people in the English speaking world who have literacy problems and one way to help is to volunteer your time and and teach English. You obviously have the necessary skills.
The cause of this problem is arguably poor teaching methods, for example the introduction of whole language in the mid ’60s, but also the reduction in the hours that English and related subjects are taught.
Poor literacy is a handicap not to be ridiculed …. people with poor literacy have difficulty communicating and are rarely able to find well paid jobs .. let alone run a business and employ others.
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Blimey I was going to leap in to defend teachers but some of the comments here suggest that they haven’t done a very good job in the past. Were people not taught not to assume but look at the facts? Sitting in a car park watching cars come into a school is hardly a scientific way of proving teachers don’t work hard is it? Read between the lines in the letter – er no try reading the letter rather than making up what you think is being said to confirm your predjudices.
Teachers have a thankless job, work incredibly hard and probably now are paid a decent wage for the work they do. Frankly I’m slightly curious if people think that it is so cushy why aren’t they working as a teacher? I have first hand experience of how hard they work – it’s Saturday afternoon and my wife is upstairs preparing lessons – and will be again first thing tomorrow. As for working in the real world – my wife works in an inner city comprehensive and I would hazard a guess that she has seen more of the real world then many people cushioned in the private sector in their lovely offices away from gritty reality of life. Easy life? Yeah right.
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Evaland – I’m sorry that you have not been able to find information about teachers’ salaries.
The pay scales are actually widely available – see for example http://www.teachers.org.uk/topichome.php?id=143
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I agree with Andrew….as an employer I cannot afford to pay sick leave other than a day or two. Before paying my staff I must collect and pay the taxes which in turn pay public servants such as school teachers. The only way I could pay the benefits which teachers take for granted is raise my prices…making my company uncompetitive in the market place in which case I would close down and my staff would be out of a job. As Andrew mentions there is an enormous amount of abuse in the public service and I have witnessed this many times. Teachers in our school district take an average 9 days sick leave per year so we have to employ dozens of on-call teachers to fill in the gap. Teachers may also take time off for “professional development” which might well include such things as bridge tournaments, wellness clinics or how to invest wisely for retirement. Those teachers who do not take sick leave accumulate the allotted sick days over there career and are given a bonus on retirement which amounts to a lot of money.
As regards strikes this area is also abused.
In our school district we have beautiful state of the art schools with every facility a student of teacher could wish for. The high school my kids attended had gymnasiums, theatres, libraries full of expensive books etc., the teachers common room boasts easy chairs, modern kitchen, TV commuters etc., and many if not all receive a home commuter from the school district.Students go on field trips as far away as India and Japan. The per pupil spending is about $8000. a year – or second only to the United States. Last year we had yet another strike – the reason – better working conditions. So the teachers held kid once again to ransom for more money and yet more resources.
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I completely agree with Carla. I am a student who is about to graduate and become a teacher. I think that teaching is an incredibly hard profession, much much harder than I had ever imagined before I decided to become a teacher. A lot of people are saying that other jobs work just as long hours but the difference is that when you leave your place of work to come home, you don’t have to think about it until the next day, whereas a teacher I feel is working or thinking about work 24 hours a day. People in other jobs have weekends off, whereas teachers are working hard all weekend to try and prepare lessons and resources, mark books, write reports etc..and YES we may not actually be teaching the children at these times but I think the teaching of the children is the easy bit..its all the work around it that is the hardest. I would love all you people who think that us teachers have it easy to just come and be a teacher for a week and i bet you would not be able to handle it, as I have required ALOT of training to do my job properly and I still find it extremely stressful. I am fed up of all the comments that get made to me, not just on here, but friends and family who think I have an easy life, working 9am-3pm, have 12 weeks off a year and to be honest, i thought exactly the same before i went into this profession but now I know what really goes on in the life of a teacher and just remember you all wouldn’t be able to do the things you are doing today without us!!!
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eva land made almost word for word similar comments on a bash against teachers some time ago. Most were shown to be a complete and utter stupid rant without one scintilla of fact in them.
Without going into detail on every point raised, let’s give one example. Teachers salaries. If anyone is remotely interested, details of teachers salaries can be ascertained from any of a number of sources, and, if eva land is honest, why doesn’t he/she get them from relations who, it is alleged are teachers.
At the last check, the starting salary of a teacher was £20,672. So, if I can find it out, why can’t he / she. I wouldn’t do it for twice that amount.
It seems to me that many commentators are a little upset with teachers, possibly blaming them for their own uneducated failings because plainly, some need to go back to school. Most of you know not in the slightest what a teachers life/work is about.
And, as for Andrew Finch, once more we have the “self employed” saviour of the human race to thank for a load of utter nonsense as well. The last person I would ask is “support staff”, possibly some of these are those that failed their PGCEs, have not the educational qualifications themselves or, are temperamentally unsuitable. One thing is certain, if they had the “makings”, they would be teachers themselves. Sour grapes perhaps.
The majority of teachers do a good job and earn their money. It is this government with their continual changes to the education system and everything associated with it that has “mucked things up” and made teachers more militant.
Give teachers the right to impose meaningful standards of discipline and sanctions, a period of consolidation rather than continual change and fewer political idiots in the Department of Education and Science and teachers would not be so demoralised, so militant and so demanding for better pay etc.
Society reaps what it sows and in terms of education, it has sown a load of rotten seed.
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