Comments on: Magistrate quits in Twitter row

Comments on: Magistrate quits in Twitter row http://www.shropshirestar.com/2009/04/25/magistrate-put-case-thoughts-on-internet/ Shropshire News - Midlands News - Breaking News UK Sat, 13 Mar 2010 10:31:01 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: Stuart http://www.shropshirestar.com/2009/04/25/magistrate-put-case-thoughts-on-internet/#comment-68996 Stuart Thu, 30 Apr 2009 10:44:55 +0000 http://www.shropshirestar.com/?p=63885#comment-68996 Peter, I am not into the pedantic, Politically Correct fever gripping our sick society. I didn't give it a seconds thought, but now I come to think of it, it was to "labour" the point that subject to all the norms of being a respectable, responsible and sensible person and with whatever else applies, just about anybody, irrespective of race, religion, colour, ethnic origin etc etc etc etc etc etc etc, can be a Magistrate, thereby shooting down in flames, Sean's assertion that the Magistracy is elitist. You will have me thinking that you were a left wing Social Worker or similar in a previous life is you raise silly issues like that. Peter, I am not into the pedantic, Politically Correct fever gripping our sick society. I didn’t give it a seconds thought, but now I come to think of it, it was to “labour” the point that subject to all the norms of being a respectable, responsible and sensible person and with whatever else applies, just about anybody, irrespective of race, religion, colour, ethnic origin etc etc etc etc etc etc etc, can be a Magistrate, thereby shooting down in flames, Sean’s assertion that the Magistracy is elitist.
You will have me thinking that you were a left wing Social Worker or similar in a previous life is you raise silly issues like that.

]]> By: salopian-sparky http://www.shropshirestar.com/2009/04/25/magistrate-put-case-thoughts-on-internet/#comment-68860 salopian-sparky Tue, 28 Apr 2009 20:11:10 +0000 http://www.shropshirestar.com/?p=63885#comment-68860 What an idiot. No wonder this country is in such a mess. What an idiot.
No wonder this country is in such a mess.

Report abuse

]]> By: Peter http://www.shropshirestar.com/2009/04/25/magistrate-put-case-thoughts-on-internet/#comment-68826 Peter Tue, 28 Apr 2009 15:44:59 +0000 http://www.shropshirestar.com/?p=63885#comment-68826 Whilst I'm in agreement with Stuart in his concerns of magistrates with little or no life experience neing appointed, and agree that the actions of the magistrate referred to in the article were comic, and in my view unethical and a breach of confidence, I fail to see how the ethnic origin of the young magistrate referred to in his post has any bearing on the matter. Why then mention it? Whilst I’m in agreement with Stuart in his concerns of magistrates with little or no life experience neing appointed, and agree that the actions of the magistrate referred to in the article were comic, and in my view unethical and a breach of confidence, I fail to see how the ethnic origin of the young magistrate referred to in his post has any bearing on the matter. Why then mention it?

]]> By: Stuart http://www.shropshirestar.com/2009/04/25/magistrate-put-case-thoughts-on-internet/#comment-68730 Stuart Mon, 27 Apr 2009 14:13:34 +0000 http://www.shropshirestar.com/?p=63885#comment-68730 Sean, for information, there is no "elitism" whatsoever in the Magistracy. Any person (except the obvious) are free to apply. The bench is made up of all sorts from the highest to the lowest, not long ago the papers showed a new ethnic Magistrate barely out of his teens and still wet behind the ears. His experience of life was virtually nil, his knowledge of the wider aspects of society was virtually nil and peoples freedom or otherwise will depend on his judgement. I would venture that it is this sort of muddled thinking that is a major contributory factory in our laughable criminal justice system. This comic action by this magistrate shows the depths to which we have sunk. I am with rpt Barrington Black and Captain Cynical, sack the lot, start again and make people tremble in their shoes at the prospect of appearing before the Magistrates Court - because at the moment many regard it as a joke. Sean, for information, there is no “elitism” whatsoever in the Magistracy. Any person (except the obvious) are free to apply.
The bench is made up of all sorts from the highest to the lowest, not long ago the papers showed a new ethnic Magistrate barely out of his teens and still wet behind the ears. His experience of life was virtually nil, his knowledge of the wider aspects of society was virtually nil and peoples freedom or otherwise will depend on his judgement.
I would venture that it is this sort of muddled thinking that is a major contributory factory in our laughable criminal justice system. This comic action by this magistrate shows the depths to which we have sunk. I am with rpt Barrington Black and Captain Cynical, sack the lot, start again and make people tremble in their shoes at the prospect of appearing before the Magistrates Court – because at the moment many regard it as a joke.

Report abuse

]]> By: Captain Cynical http://www.shropshirestar.com/2009/04/25/magistrate-put-case-thoughts-on-internet/#comment-68718 Captain Cynical Mon, 27 Apr 2009 12:11:47 +0000 http://www.shropshirestar.com/?p=63885#comment-68718 Perhaps if all the magistrates resigned and we replaced them with real people, with a real understanding of the concept of JUSTICE the world would be a better place. We are in the mess we are in because of the so called justice system which is there to protect the guilty and persecute the innocent. One less magistrate is just a start in the right direction. Perhaps if all the magistrates resigned and we replaced them with real people, with a real understanding of the concept of JUSTICE the world would be a better place.

We are in the mess we are in because of the so called justice system which is there to protect the guilty and persecute the innocent.

One less magistrate is just a start in the right direction.

]]> By: Blue Eyes http://www.shropshirestar.com/2009/04/25/magistrate-put-case-thoughts-on-internet/#comment-68712 Blue Eyes Mon, 27 Apr 2009 10:39:40 +0000 http://www.shropshirestar.com/?p=63885#comment-68712 Whilst he technically not done anything 'illegal;' surely there are ethical considerations to be made? Yes, I think he was right to resign as ethically, maybe he should have kept the twittering for outside the courtroom! I personally have no faith in someone who can trivilaise court cases is such a grandoise manner and to be so flippant about the whole thing, just screams of arrogance really - and yes, I know this man so I can comment! Whilst he technically not done anything ‘illegal;’ surely there are ethical considerations to be made? Yes, I think he was right to resign as ethically, maybe he should have kept the twittering for outside the courtroom! I personally have no faith in someone who can trivilaise court cases is such a grandoise manner and to be so flippant about the whole thing, just screams of arrogance really – and yes, I know this man so I can comment!

Report abuse

]]> By: Jon Ledbury http://www.shropshirestar.com/2009/04/25/magistrate-put-case-thoughts-on-internet/#comment-68711 Jon Ledbury Mon, 27 Apr 2009 10:37:43 +0000 http://www.shropshirestar.com/?p=63885#comment-68711 And he did what wrong??? And he did what wrong???

]]> By: Lucy W http://www.shropshirestar.com/2009/04/25/magistrate-put-case-thoughts-on-internet/#comment-68707 Lucy W Mon, 27 Apr 2009 09:52:48 +0000 http://www.shropshirestar.com/?p=63885#comment-68707 Steve: Re #18, I don’t think it’s the Court Service that has over reacted here. They received a complaint and where obliged to consider it. Mr M resigned before the complaint had been considered – if anyone over reacted, it was Mr M. John: Re #20, the justice system is generally open. You can sit the public gallery anytime you want and observe it, subject to a few precautions to protect the vulnerable. Robert: #22, spot on re Presumption of innocence. Grounds for Appeal and possibility of trial being abandoned (albeit unlikely in this case, although I have not read all his twitting). And as many defendants receive legal aid, the tax payer pays for the Appeal (a very expensive matter), which as it isn’t going to cost the defendant, they will usually go for regardless of the likelihood of success. Bob: #27, if he did nothing wrong, why did he resign? Hmmmm? Mr M’s actions have been foolish and just like some criminal’s who deny their wrong doings and try to cowardly run away from their acts, Mr M has done the same. If he had any strength of character he would either accept his wrong doings appropriately or vigorously defend his actions. He failure to do either only leave people to make inferences. I wonder if he will be responding to his critics here, as he is so keep to champion this type of media? Hmmmmm? Steve: Re #18, I don’t think it’s the Court Service that has over reacted here. They received a complaint and where obliged to consider it. Mr M resigned before the complaint had been considered – if anyone over reacted, it was Mr M.

John: Re #20, the justice system is generally open. You can sit the public gallery anytime you want and observe it, subject to a few precautions to protect the vulnerable.

Robert: #22, spot on re Presumption of innocence. Grounds for Appeal and possibility of trial being abandoned (albeit unlikely in this case, although I have not read all his twitting). And as many defendants receive legal aid, the tax payer pays for the Appeal (a very expensive matter), which as it isn’t going to cost the defendant, they will usually go for regardless of the likelihood of success.

Bob: #27, if he did nothing wrong, why did he resign? Hmmmm?

Mr M’s actions have been foolish and just like some criminal’s who deny their wrong doings and try to cowardly run away from their acts, Mr M has done the same. If he had any strength of character he would either accept his wrong doings appropriately or vigorously defend his actions.

He failure to do either only leave people to make inferences. I wonder if he will be responding to his critics here, as he is so keep to champion this type of media? Hmmmmm?

Report abuse

]]> By: Bob Jenkins http://www.shropshirestar.com/2009/04/25/magistrate-put-case-thoughts-on-internet/#comment-68701 Bob Jenkins Mon, 27 Apr 2009 05:20:28 +0000 http://www.shropshirestar.com/?p=63885#comment-68701 I know Mr Molyneux, not as a JP, or anything else, but as a man who once stuck up for me and my mate where I suspect the vast majority of men in his position would have put their wealth and status before honour and either kept schtum or taken the side of the guy who was talking down to us. He's one of life's good guys and I would very much rather have a man of his skill and virtue in public office than someone who is just after the kudos of such a position. He did nothing wrong in my book. I know Mr Molyneux, not as a JP, or anything else, but as a man who once stuck up for me and my mate where I suspect the vast majority of men in his position would have put their wealth and status before honour and either kept schtum or taken the side of the guy who was talking down to us. He’s one of life’s good guys and I would very much rather have a man of his skill and virtue in public office than someone who is just after the kudos of such a position. He did nothing wrong in my book.

]]> By: Sean http://www.shropshirestar.com/2009/04/25/magistrate-put-case-thoughts-on-internet/#comment-68699 Sean Sun, 26 Apr 2009 15:28:32 +0000 http://www.shropshirestar.com/?p=63885#comment-68699 In times like these when we are crying out for more transparency in public services, it's a travesty that Mr Molyneux is forced to resign for reporting information which is already in the public domain. And I couldn't disagree more with Stuart above; his comments and the response by the Justices Advisory Committee both smack of elitism in the court system, another thing we need to do away with. Mr Molyneux should be reinstated immediately. In times like these when we are crying out for more transparency in public services, it’s a travesty that Mr Molyneux is forced to resign for reporting information which is already in the public domain.

And I couldn’t disagree more with Stuart above; his comments and the response by the Justices Advisory Committee both smack of elitism in the court system, another thing we need to do away with.

Mr Molyneux should be reinstated immediately.

]]> By: Lucy W http://www.shropshirestar.com/2009/04/25/magistrate-put-case-thoughts-on-internet/#comment-68694 Lucy W Sun, 26 Apr 2009 10:43:07 +0000 http://www.shropshirestar.com/?p=63885#comment-68694 I have given Mr M’s Twits some consideration and wondered if he would respond to my comments in the very public way that he has been championing so far? "•Awaiting court listing. Looks like I am hearing remand cases today. Hopefully interesting cases." Mr M, remand cases are not meant to be ‘interesting’. These people come before you seeking their liberty – NOT to entertain you. "•What a nightmare drive home last night. Five hours of torture. Sentencing in Ludlow all day today. A lot of motoring and shoplifting offences!" Mr M, if you find sentencing torturing then I suggest you consider how the convicted feel. If you do not feel that by passing sentence you are assisting the convicted by helping them to reform, creating a positive result for both the convicted and society, then it’s probably best that you have resigned. "•Home at last. What a day! Ludlow courthouse is ancient. We sit in the Gods passing sentence on the criminal fraternity." Mr M, to imply that all the convicted are linked together in some friendly way, is extremely offensive and prejudicial. Some convicted people are deeply remorseful and do not deserve to be tarred with the same brush and dealt with as a member of some brotherhood of criminals. "•Just keeping up whilst I’m court deciding on sentence. Sad or what." Mr M, I may have mis-interpreted this, but it’s that you do not have the stamina for the job. Yes it is very sad that you volunteered to this role a social elevation, yet recognize that you aren’t made of the right metal, but carry on regardless. "•Finished hearing bail. Three refused for planning robbery of £480,000 from TSB in Dawley, Telford. •First defendant. Conspiracy to rob TSB of £500,000. Good start - wrong previous convictions presented. •Just about to hear application from three robbers from Manchester as to whether to remand or not." Mr M, all of the above three show prejudice. You refer to them as ‘robbers’. Just what happened to the presumption of innocence? Ever wondered why most defendants opt for trial by jury when ever possible? "•Called into court today to deal with those arrested last night and held in custody. I guess they will be mostly drunks but you never know." Mr M, yet more prejudice and you shouldn’t guess at outcomes, you should only consider evidence put before you. "•I have resigned after 16 years as a Magistrate due to my policy of wanting to report outcome of cases to the public on Twitter." Mr M, you resigned because you ‘guessed’ you’d be found ‘guilty’ and at best reprimanded but most likely removed from office. "•All I mentioned what the same that was said in Open court. A fellow magistrate thought it was unethical and complained." Mr M, you did more make on-line law reports, you expressed personal views that if said in open court would be duly noted by the defense team and used in an appeal. I imagine that your twitters are now being scrutinized right now for that very purpose. So what do you have to say about that? I have given Mr M’s Twits some consideration and wondered if he would respond to my comments in the very public way that he has been championing so far?

“•Awaiting court listing. Looks like I am hearing remand cases today. Hopefully interesting cases.”
Mr M, remand cases are not meant to be ‘interesting’. These people come before you seeking their liberty – NOT to entertain you.

“•What a nightmare drive home last night. Five hours of torture. Sentencing in Ludlow all day today. A lot of motoring and shoplifting offences!”
Mr M, if you find sentencing torturing then I suggest you consider how the convicted feel. If you do not feel that by passing sentence you are assisting the convicted by helping them to reform, creating a positive result for both the convicted and society, then it’s probably best that you have resigned.

“•Home at last. What a day! Ludlow courthouse is ancient. We sit in the Gods passing sentence on the criminal fraternity.”
Mr M, to imply that all the convicted are linked together in some friendly way, is extremely offensive and prejudicial. Some convicted people are deeply remorseful and do not deserve to be tarred with the same brush and dealt with as a member of some brotherhood of criminals.

“•Just keeping up whilst I’m court deciding on sentence. Sad or what.”
Mr M, I may have mis-interpreted this, but it’s that you do not have the stamina for the job. Yes it is very sad that you volunteered to this role a social elevation, yet recognize that you aren’t made of the right metal, but carry on regardless.

“•Finished hearing bail. Three refused for planning robbery of £480,000 from TSB in Dawley, Telford.
•First defendant. Conspiracy to rob TSB of £500,000. Good start – wrong previous convictions presented.
•Just about to hear application from three robbers from Manchester as to whether to remand or not.”
Mr M, all of the above three show prejudice. You refer to them as ‘robbers’. Just what happened to the presumption of innocence? Ever wondered why most defendants opt for trial by jury when ever possible?

“•Called into court today to deal with those arrested last night and held in custody. I guess they will be mostly drunks but you never know.”
Mr M, yet more prejudice and you shouldn’t guess at outcomes, you should only consider evidence put before you.

“•I have resigned after 16 years as a Magistrate due to my policy of wanting to report outcome of cases to the public on Twitter.”
Mr M, you resigned because you ‘guessed’ you’d be found ‘guilty’ and at best reprimanded but most likely removed from office.

“•All I mentioned what the same that was said in Open court. A fellow magistrate thought it was unethical and complained.”
Mr M, you did more make on-line law reports, you expressed personal views that if said in open court would be duly noted by the defense team and used in an appeal. I imagine that your twitters are now being scrutinized right now for that very purpose.

So what do you have to say about that?

]]> By: Stuart http://www.shropshirestar.com/2009/04/25/magistrate-put-case-thoughts-on-internet/#comment-68693 Stuart Sun, 26 Apr 2009 10:40:24 +0000 http://www.shropshirestar.com/?p=63885#comment-68693 Very undignified if you ask me, once the rot starts with the dignity and decorum of the court being lowered by the Magistrates themselves then we are on a slippery slope. We have not yet reached the same "joke" as the American Courts but if this attitude catches on, we soon could be. No sympathy at all with the man - shows very poor judgement. And, like Pitkin, those who think the JPs all come from the "old school tie" lot and can be steryotyped as above in 6 - they most certainly do not. A close friend is one and she is the wife of a a Railway worker. Sorry... forgot to say great post - can't wait to read your next one! Very undignified if you ask me, once the rot starts with the dignity and decorum of the court being lowered by the Magistrates themselves then we are on a slippery slope.
We have not yet reached the same “joke” as the American Courts but if this attitude catches on, we soon could be. No sympathy at all with the man – shows very poor judgement.
And, like Pitkin, those who think the JPs all come from the “old school tie” lot and can be steryotyped as above in 6 – they most certainly do not. A close friend is one and she is the wife of a a Railway worker.
Sorry… forgot to say great post – can’t wait to read your next one!

]]> By: Bloggs http://www.shropshirestar.com/2009/04/25/magistrate-put-case-thoughts-on-internet/#comment-68691 Bloggs Sun, 26 Apr 2009 09:00:11 +0000 http://www.shropshirestar.com/?p=63885#comment-68691 In the Crown Court,a defendant is presumed to be innocent until the evidence proves him (or "her" - sorry) guilty on the evidence - a judge has told a jury that is the law. In rhe magistrates court, do the Gods have to appply that law to mostly drunk members of the criminal fraternity? And what if they are from Manhcester? In the Crown Court,a defendant is presumed to be innocent until the evidence proves him (or “her” – sorry) guilty on the evidence – a judge has told a jury that is the law.

In rhe magistrates court, do the Gods have to appply that law to mostly drunk members of the criminal fraternity? And what if they are from Manhcester?

]]> By: rpt Barrington-Black http://www.shropshirestar.com/2009/04/25/magistrate-put-case-thoughts-on-internet/#comment-68689 rpt Barrington-Black Sun, 26 Apr 2009 07:14:35 +0000 http://www.shropshirestar.com/?p=63885#comment-68689 His comments show incredibly poor judgement. He appears more concerned with ego than his public service as a magistrate. So concerned about twittering that he does not apply his mind to the job he should be doing. No Twittering might have been done in court, but he and his colleagues leave the court room between cases to decide on bail, sentence verdicts etc. If he is so busy letting the world know how important he is, is he concentrating on the work he should be doing? How many people, defendants, lawyers, victims, witnesses, can have any confidence that he has correctly thought through the cases they are concerned in? His reference to the Gods, sums up his attitude to being a magistrate, and equally applies to the majority of of the self important. His comments show incredibly poor judgement. He appears more concerned with ego than his public service as a magistrate.

So concerned about twittering that he does not apply his mind to the job he should be doing.

No Twittering might have been done in court, but he and his colleagues leave the court room between cases to decide on bail, sentence verdicts etc. If he is so busy letting the world know how important he is, is he concentrating on the work he should be doing?

How many people, defendants, lawyers, victims, witnesses, can have any confidence that he has correctly thought through the cases they are concerned in?

His reference to the Gods, sums up his attitude to being a magistrate, and equally applies to the majority of of the self important.

]]> By: Robert http://www.shropshirestar.com/2009/04/25/magistrate-put-case-thoughts-on-internet/#comment-68688 Robert Sun, 26 Apr 2009 00:16:56 +0000 http://www.shropshirestar.com/?p=63885#comment-68688 He seems to be confused about the principle of innocent until proven guilty. To describe some men, before a remand hearing, as being "robbers" seems a bit premature. & to do it on the internet to be publicly accessed is just downright silly. He seems to be confused about the principle of innocent until proven guilty. To describe some men, before a remand hearing, as being “robbers” seems a bit premature. & to do it on the internet to be publicly accessed is just downright silly.

]]> By: James http://www.shropshirestar.com/2009/04/25/magistrate-put-case-thoughts-on-internet/#comment-68687 James Sat, 25 Apr 2009 23:40:22 +0000 http://www.shropshirestar.com/?p=63885#comment-68687 Steve, Why did you resign? You weren't breaking the law and after reading your entries to Twitter I don't see any compromising information so what's the problem? You should have stayed and let the complaint be dealt with. It seems like this is a waste of a good magistrate. I voted no you shouldn't have resigned in the poll above. Steve,

Why did you resign? You weren’t breaking the law and after reading your entries to Twitter I don’t see any compromising information so what’s the problem? You should have stayed and let the complaint be dealt with.

It seems like this is a waste of a good magistrate. I voted no you shouldn’t have resigned in the poll above.

]]> By: John http://www.shropshirestar.com/2009/04/25/magistrate-put-case-thoughts-on-internet/#comment-68686 John Sat, 25 Apr 2009 23:33:06 +0000 http://www.shropshirestar.com/?p=63885#comment-68686 You are best out of it Steve. You need an open democracy to have an open justice system. We have neither in the UK. Only what the system cares to tell us. Any disclosure is poorly executed and certainly does not give the impression that in the majority of cases, justice has been done. You are best out of it Steve. You need an open democracy to have an open justice system. We have neither in the UK. Only what the system cares to tell us. Any disclosure is poorly executed and certainly does not give the impression that in the majority of cases, justice has been done.

]]> By: the cothercot kid http://www.shropshirestar.com/2009/04/25/magistrate-put-case-thoughts-on-internet/#comment-68685 the cothercot kid Sat, 25 Apr 2009 23:24:54 +0000 http://www.shropshirestar.com/?p=63885#comment-68685 pray what is a twitter, 1 am still not up to speed with a cassette recorder. am i missing something pray what is a twitter, 1 am still not up to speed with a cassette recorder. am i missing something

]]> By: Steve Shenton http://www.shropshirestar.com/2009/04/25/magistrate-put-case-thoughts-on-internet/#comment-68683 Steve Shenton Sat, 25 Apr 2009 22:22:09 +0000 http://www.shropshirestar.com/?p=63885#comment-68683 Like you said Steve, No personal details were passed on, no addresses no real public harm so why are the courts being so over-reactive. On your side 100% :) Like you said Steve, No personal details were passed on, no addresses no real public harm so why are the courts being so over-reactive. On your side 100% :)

]]> By: Bulk Head http://www.shropshirestar.com/2009/04/25/magistrate-put-case-thoughts-on-internet/#comment-68682 Bulk Head Sat, 25 Apr 2009 21:05:04 +0000 http://www.shropshirestar.com/?p=63885#comment-68682 Twitter is as Twitter does. Why anyone beyond the age of about 8 thinks their every belch and passing thought merits a broadcast to the world at large is a complete mystery. Aptly named. Twitter is as Twitter does. Why anyone beyond the age of about 8 thinks their every belch and passing thought merits a broadcast to the world at large is a complete mystery. Aptly named.

]]>