Hundreds of hunt supporters revived some of the UK’s oldest traditions and turned out in force today for outings across Shropshire and Mid Wales.
The battle lines were being drawn as hunters and anti-hunt campaigners converged in the countryside throughout Britain for the hunts.
Almost four years on from the ban on hunting in England and Wales, more than 7,700 people have backed a new petition to support the repeal of the Hunting Act and the number is growing, said the Countryside Alliance.
But as hunts up and down the country got under way today, anti-hunt campaigners said the hunters were exploiting loopholes to act “with impunity” in killing animals.
However, Ann Carding, huntmaster of the North Shropshire Hunt, which left from the Bear Hotel at Hodnet at 11am, said she did not anticipate any problems.
“I think it’s a lovely traditional Boxing Day event that people don’t want to lose so they will come and support them,” she said.
The Albrighton Hunt met at St Mary’s Street in Newport with riders due to head out at 11am. It was followed by a parade by the Newport Carriage Driving Group.
Hunts were also taking place in Mid Wales today including The Tanantside Hunt, meeting in Welshpool town centre, and the David Davies Hunt at Llanidloes.
Meetings were also setting off from two villages near Shrewsbury along with designated meeting areas in Ludlow and Morville.
More than 300 hunts, including 194 fox hunts with packs of hounds, are expected to take place across England, Wales and Scotland.
The majority will use “trails” – a scent of the quarry laid down artificially.
A dead fox is often the reward for hounds at a hunt’s end.
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So a dead fox is given as a reward at the end of a hunt?
Will we ever change?
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oh here we go again with the antis.
The hunts stay with in the law.Antis have nothing to do now. So pester the hunters . Lets face it the fox is classed as a pest and are killed more now than ever.
Giving the hounds a dead fox ? whats wrong with that? . Many probably stuffed there faces with turkey yesterday and more than likely a frozen super market one from europe with lpw animal welfare conditions .TRADITIONAL AND BRITISH .As the rest of europe say why do the brits kill of there culture.
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I for one, am in favour for one of Britain’s oldest traditions. It is important we maintain such traditions in these modern times, it is what makes us British, our long history being envied by others.
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Please can somebody tell me just what is the purpose of the men who ride quads bikes around during the hunt with terriers housed in small boxes? What are they doing?
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Im’e “anti”, proud of it and am sick of these characters who pose as humane, civilized people who have to indulge in these barbaric, cruel practices to satisfy their perverted pastimes. They do not operate within the law, as many of them would testify in their braggardly fashion if they were asked. The only thing is - the Police are so politically correct, conscious of not upsetting the “county set” and those that aspire to it that they prance about in their cars or sit in their offices and keep as far away from the actual hunt as far as possible. Yes, they may oversee the start and finish to prevent a breach of the peace but when the dirty work is being done they are nowhere near and foxes suffer. Thankfully some hunt members are now being brought before the courts albeit far fewer than what should be.
The latest propaganda from the Countryside Alliance is that 7,000 people signed a petition to repeal the Act banning hunting with dogs, absolutely great, - see what the “antis” could do if they put their mind to it - the figure could be counted in the millions. So, don’t be silly Alliance, just accept that you are on the way out as a despised and contemptible minority.
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Glad to see you’re making full use of the Dictionary and the Teach Yourself Punctuation manual you received for Christmas, Andrew.
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the odd fox may get dispatched in error, but the sport has been cleaned up since blair and co brought in legislation. the hounds and riders follow a scent and not a fox. thankfully more people belong to the hunts and more people follow the hunts.
if the anti neds want to cut out cruelty why do they not petition the eu to stamp out bull fighting in spain or better still take their direct action to spain. hasta la vista, and yoicks tally ho from us
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Hunt supporters out in force - I read that as ‘farce’, which would be more appropriate really.
I do think someone at the Star has a sense of humour or irony by putting that WSPA animal cruelty appeal right in the middle of the story..
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Jayne - As long as the fox has been killed humanely what’s the problem? Foxes are pests, the reason for banning hunting was not because we didn’t want them killed, it’s because of the barbaric way they were being killed.
Andrew - I think it’s very naive to think the ‘Antis have nothing to do now’. If nothing else, at least they are observing events to ensure hunters do not revert to the cruelty they so happily ‘enjoyed’ previously.
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So these anti say hunter exploit loopholes? I’ve never understood what a loophole is really. Surley these hunts are within the law as the law has made a provision for what ever it is the antis are moaning about. (And just what ae they moaning about? They never seem to say what these loopholes are. They are talking rubbish - as usual)
And didn’t the antis (with all their knowledge of the sport) write the law?
Quite frankly it sounds to me like they just can’t accept that some people have horses and like to turn out smart for a days riding with some dogs, so they make the unsubstantiated “loophole” allegations.
These antis are just biggots who detest anyone who want to uphold tradition - look out Morris Dancers, you’ll be next!
And just what is the problem of a dead fox at the end? I thought thats what they wanted - foxes shot instead if being hunted because thats the law they were happy with. Although for some bizarre reason they were happy the rabbits, rats and mice being chased by as many dogs as anyone muster! The fact is its nothing to do with animal welfare - its misguided social resentment.
These antis defy logic. Honestly *tut*
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So the anti goes out just incase the hunter does something wrong?.Pity they do not walk around our streets with camcorders catching the crims .They could help the police clear up.
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I agree with Andrew Finch, go to any town centre on a Friday or Saturday night and you will still see packs of dogs hunting, in the form of drunken yobs looking for trouble, where are the Anti mob then?
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Please can somebody from the Hunt answer my earlier question - “What is the purpose of the men who ride around on quad bikes with terriers in boxes on the front of the quads, during a hunt?”
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They won’t answer Michelle purely and simply because they have not got an answer that will stand up to legal examination. They carry these terriers to dig out foxes for their own perverted pleasure and to inflict cruelty.
Amongst all the purile arguments put forward here to support hunting with dogs, we now get the mother of all intelligent cases put forward, drunken yobs on our streets at night and criminality etc. How this can justify their case beats me but I would hazard a guess that just as we get the yobs in red coats on horseback chasing after small animals, these are the possibly the same yobs vomiting, drunk and fighting all over our streets at night. Certainly the both display the same mentality. Perhaps we could have some factual, intelligent arguments put forward for a change but that’s impossible as none exist.
I will happily stand accused of anything these louts wish to throw at me, bigotry (really Lucy) being just one thing, but some things I know I am not. I am not a cruel, perverted, small minded, sick, arrogant wastrel who’se pleasures extend to inflicting pain and indulging in filthy practices like daubing fox blood on the faces of young children. Yes, it still goes on.
As for going for Morris Dancers next, my neighbour across the field is one, the only thing he does when he is dressed up and dancing is beat a sugar beet to death. We are aware that intelligence was never a part of the hunters case to justify their “sport”. When a few are sent to prison, we will see how things are then.
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Both hunt supporters and antis have animal welfare close to their hearts and those that read the Racing News of 23 Feb 2008 should cancel meets downwind of the proposed Harlescott incinerator:
The Racing Post: Trainers campaign against waste plant
Racing Post, The (England) - Saturday, February 23, 2008
Author: Turia Tellwright
SEVERAL trainers are joining a campaign to prevent the licensing of a waste disposal plant in the Surrey village of Capel, inspired by Aidan O’Brien’s objection to the development of a bio-energy plant near Ballydoyle, writes Turia Tellwright.
Capel resident and campaigner Jennie Stackman-Brown has approached neighbouring trainers to alert them to the potential dangers such a site could bring.
“I saw what Aidan O’Brien is trying to do and thought that we need the same level of high-profile support,” she said.
Surrey Waste Management has proposed building a mass incinerator in the area as part of its waste disposal plan.
Those against the plan claim that medical research highlights a link between the location of incinerators and mortality in infants and livestock.
Specialist Dr Rick van Steen, who has spoken to local residents on the subject, has suggested that anyone living within a 16-mile radius of the proposed sight is at risk of harmful emissions.
Trainer Gary Moore, who recently purchased Charles Cyzer’s yard in nearby Horsham, said: “I’m definitely against such a proposal. It’s not just for us, but there’s a lot of wildlife around here.
“Our next-door neighbour runs a deer farm and if it puts livestock and people in danger, it makes you think a bit.”
Albert Ennis, who trains less than three miles away from the proposed site, at the Beare Green yard, said: “We take the horses down near there some mornings and hack about on the roads near by. We would not be in favour of it.”
Irish Independent: O’Brien delight as incinerator blocked near famous stud
Irish Independent (Ireland) - Saturday, July 12, 2008
TOP horse trainer Aidan O’Brien last night hailed a decision to stop an animal waste incinerator being built near the world famous Ballydoyle stable and Coolmore stud.
He said he was “delighted” after An Bord Pleanala refused planning permission for the facility in south Tipperary which, campaigners claimed, threatened the environment. and the local equine industry.
Ballydoyle Racing Stables and Coolmore Stud, owned by millionaire John Magnier, had joined forces with residents in trying to block the development.
Both groups expressed their relief at the decision to reject plans for the €100m plant proposed by Green Organics Energy (GOE) for a 22-acre site at Rosegreen, Castleblake.
There were fears the equine industry in south Tipperary would have been wiped out if the plans had have been approved.
Champion trainer O’Brien said everyone at Ballydoyle was thrilled. He told the Irish Independent: “I want to pay tribute to the many individuals and organisations throughout this community for their hard work in campaigning against this development in order to protect their local environment.”
At the An Bord Pleanala oral hearing on the application in February, Mr O’Brien said if the new facility would be approved he’d be “out of business” because of the effect on the horses respiratory systems.
Maurice Moloney of Coolmore Stud said the decision represented a result for “common sense” and the local community.
Mr Moloney added: “We all had a common interest in protecting the pristine environment in which we all live. A lot of people have put in a lot of hard work. We want to say a heartfelt thank you to our neighbours, the people of south Tipperary.”
South Tipperary for Clean Industry Ltd (STCI), a group set up by activists campaigning against the waste and rendering facility because of feared risksto health and quality of life, also welcomedthe decision.
Environment
STCI spokesman Douglas Butler said: “We were at all times confident that An Bord Pleanala would uphold South Tipperary County Council’s decision to refuse planning. This refusal will protect the environment and our well-established equine industry.”
South Tipperary TD and junior minister Martin Mansergh had objected to the facility on “public interest” grounds.
STCI said the proposed plant”would have processed almost half of the slaughter house waste produced in Ireland and domestic waste from hundreds of thousands of households, amounting to 250,000 tonnes of waste every year using an unproven technology”.
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I can understand that those of a ‘horsey’ persuasion wish to exercise their animals in the countryside.
I can understand that foxes in some areas are a pest and need to be controlled.
I might even be persuaded by scientific evidence (if any exists) that hunting with dogs might be the most effective way of doing this in some terrains.
What I really cannot fathom though, is why some people seek their pleasure in dressing up, blowing silly horns and watching a petrified wild animal killed and torn to pieces, even involving children in the whole spectacle and on occasion, smearing them with the unfortunte animal’s blood!
There’s something rather sick about that…
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Michelle: The idea of quad bike and terriers is to make sure that the hounds dont accidentally disturb a fox. These people are extremely skilled and know just were to look. They use the terrier to locate a fox in the ground, then dig it and shoot it (which is just what the anti’s want as they never objected to this in the legislation), thus preventing the fox from inadvertently bolting infront of the hounds and accidentally being killed.
This measure is necessary to comply with the Hunting Act as the hunts must be seen to be taking reasonable steps to prevent an accidental killing. If they didn’t and a fox bolted and was accidentally killed by the hounds, can you imagine the allegation these antis would make!!
Ironically, due to legislation, Mr Fox is now a sitting duck so to speak, where in the old day, these people blocked earths at night so the fox reamained on top and had a very good chance of escape.
I’m afraid today, Mr Fox can expect to be dug and shot or flushed and shot by marksman with zero chance of surviving. Of course Mr Fox would rather die of old age but that just isn’t an option as politicians and anti’s dont really care about our ageing pensioners, let alone an aging fox population.
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Stuart: re #5. You might be surprised how much work the police do in this area and the number of successful prosections that have been made under the new Act (albeit these prosections were not of organised hunts and could have been brough under the Game Act).
I have attended several legal hunt where the Police have attended voluntarily and following a complaint by the public.
But as one officer told me the problem is that the public doen’t understand and can’t tell the difference between legal hunting and illegal hunting and waste hours of police time complaining about legal drag hunts. Then the police get it in the neck when murders and rapists are going undetected.
Ironically, these antis are draining police resources at the expense of serious crime.
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Lucy, I would willingly drain Police resources if they would put a few of these perverts behind bars. I would venture here that I know probably more about police resources than anyone on this site unless the Chief Constable is using a pseudonym and blogging with us. Not one murderer, rapist, chewing gum thief or dog fouler has gone undetected because officers were engaged on dealing with hunts. The number of prosecutions brought under this specific act are derisory and could possibly be counted on half a dozen hands - if that.
We have heard every argument under the sun from the red-coat brigade and not one of them holds water.
I oppose fox hunting not only for it’s cruelty which is bad enough in itself but for the destruction of our natural wildlife and the sheer arrogance of those that indulge in it. The Alliance and farmers generally are the first to moan whenever the Government or anyone else, dares tread on their outmoded customs and pastimes but these self same people have done more to destroy the natural countryside than the government or anyone else in the past 150 years. With a brother in law who is a farmer (he used to follow otter hounds until it was banned)I have much sympathy for farmers in terms of their economics and finances but there my sympathy ends. They are the authors of their own misfortune and those that support hunting and the militant misfits in the Alliance only have themselves to blame.
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Stuart: So you believe that some one dressing up smartly to follow an artificail scent is a pervert just because they enjoy the sentiments of an ancient tradition? So if I follow the logic of your arguement, the Morris Dancers and Cheese Rollers are also perverts? Hmmm?
Could the fact that no organised hunt has been sucessfully prosecuted possibly mean that that these people are law abiding? Unlike the home grown terrorists who attack law abiding people. I’ve been personally threatened by these anti people just because I was walking in the vicinity - nothing to do with the hunt!! It was only when the Police turned up in the wood by good fortune that I was able to leave in the back of their 4×4. I should have made a complaint of assult and false imprisonment but quite frankly I feared a reprisal attack by these thugs.
And if you don’t like wildlife being killed, I suggest you grow you own food without pesticides and starve! And why not ban cats while you’re at it? Lets face it they kill more wildlife than hunting ever did - and they are extremely cruel the way they torment their prey before killing it!
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Stuart: Sorry my responses are getting abit random, very tired after hill walking yesterday and on the port right now.
But re #14, I was Blooded when I was about 8. Have such found memories of my father who took me on lead rein on my little welsh mountain pony. And when the first fox was hill a leg was removed and the blood smeared on my ckeeks and I didn’t wash them for a few days.
It was such an hounour, on a parr with being accepted into the church by being Christened. I sometimes cry when I think that my children may never be able to have such a wonderful experience.
And on a Christian note, many Vicars turn up to the hunts on St Cuthbert’s day (Patron Saint of hunting) to bless the hounds and hunters. Often reported in Shropshire Star. After all the bible says that God created animals for man’s use (Genesis).
So moan on as much as you like, but rather like Devon said, tackle some serious animal cruelty.
Start with the barbaric Halal slaughter houses in Britain. having visited one I had to walk away from the viewing window to prevent myself being sick! Yet you seem to have no issue with this?
For some reason, no-one will tackle this barbaric religious culture, yet the cultural tradition of Fox-hunting, with its religious roots, is attacked at every opportunity.
So whats the difference? It seemes that one tradition is quite acceptable because of the colour of their skin. That’s why anti’s are racists - they dont like white cultural traditions with Christian roots.
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I for one couldnt give a toss about people who support hunts or who are against them. However whilst in welshpool on boxing day, i was amazed how much alcohol was consumed by the riders of the horses then proceed on public highways on horseback. Does this mean that drink drive limits only apply to those in cars on motorbikes etc and not those on horseback!!!!
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Peter: re #16 Those things you can’t fathom out. Well some people like to be well dressed and suitable riding attire - would you wear a donkey jacket in a jacuzzi? Did you sit down to Xmas dinner wearing scruffy clothes?
Nothing silly about the horn, its a way of controlling hounds - a very skilled craft.
A lot of people like watching murder, rape , torture etc on TV for no purpose whatsoever, whereas a control of vermin does have a purpose.
And don’t forget, as Whitney Houston said, children are out future. Why not? - kids love it!
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Lucy, just to show how silly the argument you use is, I will comment on 20. They can dress up in a Gieves and Hawkes Savile Row suit for all I care, let alone a red or blue coat etc. I couldn’t care less but I think that they are daft for doing so but that has nothing to do with being a pervert, that comes in when a mass of adult people, that would have us believe that they are intelligent, together with a mass of hounds chase after one lone, terrified wild animal to satisfy their blood lust and the obscenity is, they call it “sport”. The “perversion” comes in when they sit astride their high horses, dolled up to the nines and laugh, joke and congratulate each other as a couple of feet away, their mass of dogs tear a small, wild animal to pieces and the small child followers wait expectantly to be smeared with blood. They are barbarians let alone perverts.
I have seen many Morris Dancers and funnily enough, cheese rollers too - and also let’s throw in a few “Town Criers”, Mayors attendants and others who wear strange, antiquated uniforms but do you know, I haven’t seen any one of these people with any trace of a horse, a dog or any of the other paraphenalia of a “hunting” set up and to mention killing foxes in the most bloodthirsty way to many of these people would make them heave. So where does your illogical logic come from comparing these to huntspeople, rather daft don’t you think.
Then we get the pathetic ever green, don’t eat meat, grow your own etc or starve. Well sorry, again, we don’t get men on horses with a crowd of dogs chasing and tearing cows and bulls to pieces, neither do they chase after sheep or chickens, turkeys etc. Again a stupid, juvenile argument that is a favourite of the hunting set. And, yes, being a lover of birds and wildlife, I could make a case for very strict controls of the cats you mention.
Not one solid argument exists to support fox hunting with dogs in this day and age and the more you come out with comments like above, it shows the barreness and desperation of the pro-hunting position. In closing I would just add, I do not accept your proposition that hunters are “legal” in any way. They are just as illegal as anyone who indulges in “violence” on both sides of the fence. And if you read the press, you will appreciate that violence is not all that one-sided.
In a crowd of decent people, if I did, I would not admit that I supported hunting. It is now becoming a very un “u” activity and rightly so.
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Change the name from Shropshire Star to Horse and Hound .
Ive never seen such one sided reporting as you do on these hunting shows.Don’t you realise millions stay away because killing wild life for fun is unhuman.
Why don’t you report the nastier side rather than the pretty people swanning around dropping horse poo every where.
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The hunt stay with in the law 99% of the time .Proof look at the prosecutions you can count on one hand.why is their an issue of clothes and horns ? so whats the problem? some antis or the ones that know little about it talk as though the hunting ban was never introduced .
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why are all these people talking about the old cruel days of fox hunting, in the old days people drove quad bikes with terriers to dig up sets and release foxes for the hounds to chase. my local hunt has ceased this practise and abides by the new legislation which has considerably cleaned up this sport. if i thought quad bikes and terriers were still in use, then this goes against the new laws and should cease.
the new laws permits the meet of the hounds and huntspeople and permits them to follow a preset scent, if a stray fox gets in the way it can be shot. these are the rules as i understand it a and the cruel aspects of hunting have been removed. if i hear of quad bikes and terriers still being used i for one would report it, otherwise hunting is more popular than ever, tally ho
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Stuart
I think you will find if you trawl through other threads on the Shropshre Star forums that Lucy W deliberately posts controversial and ridiculous arguments in order to provoke intelligent people into responding. She will then happily argue that black is white all day long, and when you shoot every argument to pieces respond with insults and more idiocy.
IMHO anyone who proclaims they believe children should be daubed with animal blood and then encouraged not to wash is best avoided. Anyone who cannot tell the difference between someone who encourages hounds to rip a wild animal to pieces and someone who dances with bells on their hats to entertain people, is not worth wasting time arguing with.
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For goodness sake everyone it’s just a Boxing Day hunt that has been a tradition for many, many years. I have never read such vitriolic comments and inverted snobbery in all my life.
If people wish to “dress up” or people wish to “campaign” for or against the hunt so be it, but in the whole scale of societies issues at this present time, it is a small issue in comparison.
I suggest you all agree to disagree! By the way, happy new year.
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Mick: re#22, You make an interesting point and here are some interesting TRUE facts on the matter of drunken horse riding.
This year, in Romania a horse was found to be pulling a cart while intoxicated by alcohol following a blood test after it “appeared drunk” and ran over a man on a bench!
But turning to the serious point you raise of drunken riders in the UK, the Licensing Act 1872 makes it an offence to be drunk in charge of a horse (and a cow or steam train). The fine is currently a maximum of £200 or 51 weeks in prison. However, it will not affect you driving licence as that is only concerned with motorised vehicles. ( note; riding on of those 10cc novelty scooters that don’t require a driving licence to drive, while drunk, will result in disqualification as they are “motorised” vehicles regardless of licence requirements!). But things are different in parts of the USA where you will be banned from driving for drunken horse riding. In fact the fine is greater for riding a horse drunk than driving a car drunk in some parts of America.
However I digress. Turning back to the UK, the 1872 Act does not refer to alcohol in blood or breath levels, so to be convicted it must be proved by the prosecution that you are drunk to the extent of “loss of self-control”.
Quite clearly, the drunken horse rider has got it a lot easier than the drunken car driver. However, a few years ago, a young man was stopped returning from a night out in a horse and cart for having no lights on. He was then charged for being drunk in charge of a horse upon officers observing the state he was in. But what really beggars belief in this case, is that the horse was called Dipstick!
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Andrew: re#25 What is it with people and horse poo on the road that make them moan, moan and moan?
My mum grew up in London during the Blitz and the kids would fight over the milkman’s poo for their garden – grow for victory and all that!
So why don’t you all stop moaning and get the Scouts to clear it up and sell it to the old people when they dig their allotments for them? Just what has happened to community cohesion today? Honestly *tut*
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Is it legal to chase a fox with a pack of hounds? If not, what is the purpose of drawing a covert. I clearly witnessed this last year and could not understand what was going on. Must admit that I dont really buy the idea of the terriermen being there to prevent the fox from accidentally being chased either. It seems to me that hunting is carrying on in exactly the same format with no regard to the new legislation. I am going to make it my business to follow the next Hunt I see very closely and will certainly be calling the Police if I suspect anything illegal is taking place. The law is the law, plain and simple, and should be respected as such.
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Lucy - you mention that Vicars support Hunts and God created animals for man’s use. Can I just ask if you honestly feel that Jesus would condone hunting? I personally think hunting an animal for pleasure is against everything in the Christian doctrine and am shocked if anybody from the Church sees fit to bless hounds and hunters.
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Although I can understand the anti hunt argument and to some point the pro hunt lobby its the extremist that I find hard to fathom? in my opinion the animal rights extremists are the biggest single problem to animal welfare!
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Lucy,
Your comparison of fox hunting and Halal methods of killing animals is simply invalid.
In both the Halal and Kosher methods of killing, the purpose is to drain the carcass of blood. The animals throat is cut, swiftly, resulting in a catastrophic loss of blood pressure to the brain, and loss of consciousness in just a few seconds, whilst the still beating heart pumps the blood from the body.
It’s probably only slightly more distressing to the animal than the Western method of stunning or killing with a captive bolt.
And the point is - all of these animals die so that we eat them! In all your hunting days have you ever eaten a fox?
If we were to have abbatoirs where the employees chased the animals around for a couple of hours until they were petrified, then killed them by tearing them to pieces in front of a purpose-built viewing gallery so that those who like to see animals die could put on fancy dress and watch, then you might have a point.
But we don’t - and there would be justifiable uproar if we did.
Not all traditional country activities are good.
We’ve seen the back of other traditions like legal cock-fighting and badger-baiting. Hopefully we’ve seen the back of fox-hunting too.
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The countryside has been managed for thousands of years and the country folk should be left to continue with their traditions and lifestyle.
It is their lifestyle, you may not like it, but while we still have some freedoms fight for them.
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ha ha this is the end of labour - we wont obey your unjust laws ha ha this is a poll tax moment for Brown, hes out of here, lets all march on the towns next, drive out the urban foxes too and let the townies get a life and respect our rural rights, ha ha i love it, hats off to the hunters, they are like the suffergetes or martin luther king, damn the little vermin, this is about HUMAN rights, up the countryside, down with labour, the liberals, the animal rights activists and the city folk generally, ha ha
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I dont think anyone has the right or should enjoy killing another animal.
Fair enough if you like horses and joining up for a ride, but i dont understand how anyone can think thats its right or enjoyable to kill animals for sport, especially when they are not even eaten afterwards.
Reading some of these comments above just prooves how small minded and old fashioned some people are.
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M VAUGHN YOU ARE ENTITLED TO FOLLOW AND OBSERVE, but please stay with in the law and do not trespass on others land .Cant abide law breakers.
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how much more pre 2005 drivel have we to put up with. hunting has been cleaned up and if the anti’s cannot accept this then it is pathetic. can we stick to hunting after blairs act which cleaned the sport up. by all means if anybody spots hunts not keeping within the law then by all means report it, the use of quad bikes and terriers as an example. things are not helped by the tory opposition promising to repeal the laws if they get back in. it is folly like this and promising tax cuts that will keep them in the wilderness for decades to come, thankfully!
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Lucy W said:
“My mum grew up in London during the Blitz and the kids would fight over the milkman’s poo for their garden – grow for victory and all that!”
Personally I’d have changed my milkman - but they’ve always been strange down south.
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Rob, that post just had me in tears. You’ve made my day.
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tory boy, I personally think that you are a Labourite deliberately being provocative to drive people away from the Tories because the Tories do not have anyone so thick and idiotic in their ranks - though I can think of Parties that would. But, just in case there can be a “smidgin” of truth that you are a Tory, let me tell you this, if I knew it to be true I would leave the Tories in a flash, second, if the Tories got in and they repealed the ban on hunting, they would have lost me the minute they did so and I would revert back to Labour.
There are many in the Tory Party that oppose hunting and welcomed Mike Fosters bill. As opposed to it being repealed, it needs to be strengthened and every last loophole which allows the criminal elements in the hunting fraternity to flout the law and still kill foxes with dogs, should be plugged.
Not every Tory is a toffee nosed, whisky swilling, arrogant, tweed suited, hooray Henry who indulges in cruel, blood sports. Some of us are just plain, whisky swilling, intelligent people who abhor the steriotypical Master of Foxhounds type with his Flying Officer Kite moustache, the florid complexion, the boardroom occupation and friends “in town”.
I think the Tories can do without your support tory boy - but you are kidding, aren’t you?.
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dont start upsetting the fox hunters again, they will only come into the big london village again make a mess with there horses and dogs all get over excited clog the roads up etc. much better to leave them in there villages so thet can pick another hobby say bear bating now they cant chase around after foxes! after all its there inhuman rights.
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I had the misfortune to get caught up in the hunt the other day and couldn’t believe how the riders refused to move over on the road so we could pass (riding single file would help, how cars were parked everywhere and how much of a mess they were making of the grass verges. It was chaos, people and animals everywhere, my 15 year old pointed out that if it was groups of teenagers on bmx’s the public wouldn’t stand for it. All involved including those watching were a disgrace and should have more consideration for the other people around them, who have just as much right to be using the road, if not more as horses don’t pay road taxi. I wonder if the hunt clear the roads up after, because farmers have to. Same rules should apply.
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Andrew - if you cant abide law breakers I do hope you too will be alerting the Police if you see any illegal hunting. I would dearly like to know what was going on when quad bikers and hunt officials etc were seen clustered over our local badger sett recently. Rest assured Andrew I will be out with a video camera next time. I hope a few other correspondents may care to do the same.
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Could not agree more with Andrew Jones (#25) with regard to the totally biased articles in the Star. I think we all know what their Lords and Masters at the Paper were doing on Boxing Day - Tally Ho! I’d like to see an official response to this thread rather than more digressing drivel from Lucy W.
Contrary to what was reported, the hunts are NOT supported by all in the locallity of Hodnet. Do you really think we want gayly dressed thugs rampaging through our villages and peaceful surroundings? Closely followed by a procession of followers in anything from quad bikes to 4×4’s, either at high speed or abandoned along already narrow lanes. Fine days such as we had on Boxing Day are perfect for taking the dog (not Fox Hounds) out and walking off the Christmas cheer. Sadly, that is not possible in the Hodnet/Marchamley/Fauls triangle without the fear of being run down by a marauding pack of hooligans hiding behind the traditions of the landed gentry. How would the participants of the hunt like it if I drove around the area surrounding their stables at high speed?
Animal cruelty is not the only issue here, there is also respect for the countryside and those of us that choose to live in it.
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If I set my dog on local chavs is that classed as hunting? Or can I claim cleansing of the gene pool?
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Andrew Finch re#26: I am not aware of any successful prosecutions of organised hunts. There have been some successful prosecutions under the Hunting Act, but these could have been under the Game Act. So it would seem that the figure is 100% within the law – unless anyone knows of a successful prosecution of anyone involved in an organised hunt that wasn’t overturned at appeal.
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Devon re#27: Hunts have never deliberately dug up “sets”, because setts are where badgers live! Foxes use earths – it is this kind of careless talk that antis pounce on declaring that Hunters are badger baiting as well.
The practice of bolting a live fox for the hounds to chase was banned by the Master of Foxhounds Association many years before the Hunting Act and in my experience 100% observed. The hunting fraternity where/are not suck in their ways and I am sure with the passage of time the MFHA would have insisted using badger hounds which have short legs causing Mr Fox nothing more than jolly good romp across the fields to prevent being licked to death by these loveable badger hounds that so many people keep as pets today. Sadly this practice was never adopted as the anti’s would have no doubt made unsubstantiated allegations of badger baiting.
By the way the Hunting Act 2004 makes it perfectly legal to dig a fox with a terrier down the hole providing “ reasonable steps are taken for the purpose of preventing injury to the dog”- how very thoughtful of these animal right legislators. The Anti’s clearly had no issue with this when the celebrated the passing of the Act – at least that is one practice that both sides are in mutual agreement about.
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David re#28: I still see you are still smarting about ABS. Did Santa bring you a Haynes Automanual? And considering you don’t think I am worth engaging with on these forums, you seem to take some time to read my posts and reply to them!
Envy is the greatest compliment – Thank you David.
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Michelle V #re32: It is illegal to chase some wild mammals, and legal to chase others. For example if you dog chases a squirrel and these antis have videoed you, you can expect a private prosecution if they still have any money left from all their other follies.
The purpose of drawing a cover is to find the scent, whether that be an artificially laid one or that of a mammal that the antis are quite happy with being chased hence they had specific mention of this in the legislation as exempt hunting. Perhaps you are seeing exempt hunting under the Act?
Of course they could simply be exercising the hounds and just because a fox runs out, it doesn’t mean they are hunting it. This is where all the confusion comes from. As one Police Officer said to me, it is the general public’s confusion that wastes so much valuable police time. Nevertheless I commend your genuine interest to ask questions to try and understand the issues and reach your own informed opinion. If more people where like you, I think the hunting lobby would be more accepting of opposing views.
I am delighted that you seek to follow a hunt. Many have their dates on their web sites as they have nothing to hide. Please don’t be put of by A Finch, if you are genuinely following the hunt for your enlightenment you will be accepted on the private land that the hunt has permission to access without fear. Perhaps I can recommend that you follow a Lakeland Fell pack where they don’t use horses and I’m sure that the huntsman would be delighted for you to walk with him to learn and observe how he controls the hounds. I can assure you that it’s a privileged experience you will never forget.
As you say, the law is plain and simple, and under the Act, the hounds, horse and any other hunting equipment would be ceased upon SUSPICION of illegal hunting by the police who never hesitate from upholding the law.
Re#33: Well vicars do bless the hounds and hunters. I attended just such a meet on St Cuthbert’s day and this happened. It was featured in the Shropshire Star. If the archivist have nothing better do, I think it was in the Star end of October 2004. But if you seek more information see you local vicar as the only spiritual guidance I can give is “Drink Responsibly”.
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Peter re#35 I can’t comment on Kosher as I have never observed it. I have Halhal and I have observed a hound kill a fox and many foxes dug and shot with terriers. I have also observed badly shot fox put out of days of agonising misery slowly dieing of gangrene as well as a snared foxed bludgeoned to death.
You are somewhat mistaken about Halal. The point is they have to run around to bleed to death. Although when we were kids, we used to go to my grandma’s to see her pig’s throat swiftly cut – it was called sticking the pig. But Halal is not a swift dispatch. I apologise if I am ignorant here, but I believe the death has to be slow. Perhaps if you visit one they might explain better than me.
Of course I have not eaten a fox, but I have eaten foul that they would have eaten. Your argument is like saying its wrong to kill greenfly damaging tomato crops unless you instantly kill them with a swat and they should be left to live and destroy our food supply unless you are actually going to make Green-fly Soup!
You seem somewhat naive about seeing the back of cock-fighting as well I might add. Very popular in the urban west-midlands in certain communities as I understand!
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Totallyshocked re#38: Can I assume that you apply the not eaten after argument to shooting, fishing, ferreting and falconry? And what happens when a vet puts a child’s pet rabbit to sleep? If your view point is to be followed, then surely the family should eat it to save a lamb in the prime of its life or at very least feed it to the cat so that’s one less captive bred rabbit that goes into a can of Tuna and Rabbit chunks in gravy?
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Rob & Scott, re#41*: I am certain I said the milkman’s horse’s poo!! I think the site moderators have taken the cooking sherry into work to finish it off and doctoring my post in a drunken orgy of schoolboy humour. (Well that’s my story and I’m sticking to it)
In fact I wouldn’t surprised if David’s post of the same day was in fact well reasoned but that has also been doctored by the moderators as a part of their end of year festivities – and why not? Those poor moderators deserve a bit of fun after they spend all year having reading the drivel some people write on here.
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Lucy W
None of my posts have been doctored on here by the editorial staff, you may have said something which you now find to be incorrect, but trying to blame the editors for changing it is a little weak. As for your earlier comment about reading all of your posts, don’t flatter yourself, I certainly don’t, I merely scan over the uninteresting contributions. I do notice that you appear once again to be at odds with virtually everyone in your views and opinions, which merely confirms my post #28.
Of course, you will continue to argue against everyone, perhaps I misjudge you and you are not doing it merely to seek attention, but actually do believe that you are once again right and everyone else is wrong. Perhaps they are all the same person, after all, have you noticed the lack of apostrophes in half of their posts??? They can probably all tell the difference between envy and bemusement too.
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Lucy,
Your ignorance of Halal practices is palpable - you have clearly never observed it. The animal is required to face Mecca whilst being slaughtered, (religious ritual) - it could hardly do that if it were running around could it? But let’s not let the facts get in the way of a bit of casual bigotry eh? You really must stop reading extremist websites!
In fact independent studies using EEGs have shown that Halal methods cause less brain disturbance & activity than Western methods.
Falcons can be trained without using live prey.
Cock fighting in an form is illegal - sadly it does still go on, as does badger baiting, but anyone caught is punished, often with prison sentences.
Morally I don’t see those who wish to hunt foxes with dogs as aeny better.
As I stated before, I have no problem with properly-organised pest control - whether it’s insects or foxes, nor with hunting to eat - but to turn the death of an animal into a spectacle is just plain sick.
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Stuart; re#43: So we do have so much in common after all!! We both wish to see David Cameron as PM, fulfilling his pledges to the electorate, of which one is the repeal of the Hunting Act 2004.
Its people like you and me, (and not forgetting Tory Boy – aka The Voice of Reason by his secret fan club) that will make this nation great once again. As Otis Ferry’s dad said, “Come on, come on, Let’s Stick Together”. Or would “I’m just a Jealous Guy” be more appropriate for you?
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Adam: re#45: How true, they “have just as much right to be using the road” as you quite correctly pointed out.
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Michelle: re#46: I think that was me standing over a badger sett today! I did that because the law is quite clear about disturbing badger setts. The action was done to prevent the hounds disturbing the sett, a practice carried out since the relevant badger legislation and nothing to do with the Hunting Act. It’s a pity you didn’t go over to observe.
Have you sorted a day out with a hunt yet?
By the way, no foxes where killed or even chased today, although one got a bit jumpy and ran off over a field. The followers indicated this to the huntsman and he was able to take reasonable steps to keep his hounds under control using the horn. However, no doubt, some ignorant person is telling someone that the followers were encouraging the huntsman to chase the fox and his horn blowing was an attempt to turn the hounds on the fox.
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David: re#56. I see your Frontal Lobotomy was a success!
#55 was humorous response to Rob’s very witty observation. Whist being the butt of a joke, he made me laugh and I sought to acknowledge that with further humour. But then I’ve always been able to laugh at myself as well as people less fortunate than myself.
Heavens forbid that I was seriously suggesting that the Shropshire Star staff were in a drunken stupor brought about by the excesses of cooking sherry! I’m sure that they have some “gear” much better than cooking sherry.
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look you leftie loons, people come first not animals, we are the dominant species, not them, two legs good, our legs bad, get over it or go and live off tofu
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Happy New Year to you too Lucy W. Lets hope you can get out a bit more in 2009 and perhaps then you won’t be quite so bitter and twisted, and your attempts at humour will be more recognisable as such.
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Lucy, I think in your own inimitable way, you are trying to wind me up. I went out of my way to point out that contrary to popular thought, the Tories are made up of a lot of different people, you and I are totally different. The only thing we seem to have in common is our wish to see Britain great again. I also said that if Cameron repeals the Hunting Act, there will be one less Tory (ie, me)in the party. A party which lacks humane values, that identifies with perverted activities carried out by arrogant and uncaring people will not make this country great again, they will drag it further down that what it is at the moment.
As for “Im’e Just a Jealous Guy” well now. Nobody on this site knows me or anything about me so there is nothing to be gained by hiding my light under a bushell or conversely blowing my own trumpet in some order from the rooftops. Suffice to say, I have had the rare distinction of declining invitations from Masters to attend Hunt Balls at a number of locations throughout the Midlands under the mistaken belief on their part that they could improve their own interests from currying favour with me. I had to talk to some of them from a business aspect in working hours, that did not mean I had to socialise or make merry with them at other times, indeed on occasions I had much that they themselves wanted from me and they could easily have been jealous if they were that way inclined. Jealous, no Lucy, just an abiding hatred of everything the hunt fraternity stands for.
As for the name you mention, well, it’s all sub judice so you have an unfair advantage over me but I will go so far to say that we clearly have different opinions of these people. I gloat when I see the current situation, justice, come uppance, caught at last, how would you describe it because all these are my interpretations.
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The Farm Animal Welfare Council (FAWC), which advises the government on how to avoid cruelty to livestock, says cattle can take up to two minutes to bleed to death - amounting to an abuse of the animals.
“This is a major incision into the animal and to say that it doesn’t suffer is quite ridiculous,” said FAWC chairwoman, Dr Judy MacArthur Clark.
Compassion in World Farming backed the call, saying: “We believe that the law must be changed to require all animals to be stunned before slaughter.”
Above is from BBC News website - is that an extremist web-site you are refering to Peter?
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Lucy - it certainly wasnt you standing over the badger sett in November, unless of course you ride around on a quad bike. A group of quad bikers (terrier boxes on the front) were clearly witnessed climbing all over a badger sett during a Hunt. Hunt officials in red were also seen standing by watching from horses. If they were following a false scent, they should not be in the vicinity of a badger sett at all.
As I have said earlier, I will definitely call the Police if I witness Hunt members at a badger sett and I will also be taking video recordings of their actions. Why do you need terriermen at a hunt if you are following a pre-planned scent trail?
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Michele
If there is a debate on here about abs, Lucy W will post rubbish, telling everyone she is an expert who works for car companies. If there is a debate on points of law, she will post quoting case law she has found on the web, making out she is an expert on law, a thread about MOTs will find her telling everyone she has a complete MOT testers manual and is fully up to date on the ins and outs of the test. A thread about hunting, and sure enough Lucy W is here posting about how she is out with the hunt helping to organise it. She has also said in the past that she travels the World, but amazingly she still finds time to be on here every day arguing with anyone who will listen. Don’t let her wind you up, she is smart enough to find information on the internet, which she then quotes extensively, but she is not smart enough to understand most of it, so the only person fooled is herself.
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David - thanks for putting me right. I had thought most of her replies were in the realms of fantasy. Now I know.
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they kill lames and chikens’dukes
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