Gordon Brown enjoyed an opinion poll boost following Labour’s conference, but David Cameron remains favourite to be the next PM. On the eve of the Conservative party conference he talked to our political editor. John Hipwood meets the Leader of the Opposition.
Sitting outside the office of the Leader of HM Opposition was a bit like watching a speeded up version of human traffic in a railway station or an old Whitehall farce with Brian Rix.
There were doors opening and closing all over the place, and people - mainly young women - scurrying about from one room to another.
A good number of them were about to up sticks and make their way north to Birmingham for the Conservative Party’s annual conference, and David Cameron gave every impression of being a very busy man.
Despite all that was going on, it’s very difficult to catch Mr Cameron off his guard.
The first thing he said to me was to ask if I was going to ask him about the funding problems of the Midland Metro. He and his staff had been trying to bring themselves up to date.
I said the Metro was about eighth on my list of questions, and we agreed that, given the pressure of time, we wouldn’t get around to it.
So we began with an issue which could decide the outcome of the next election.
Why should voters in the dozen and more key marginal constituencies in the West Midlands put their faith in a leader and a shadow cabinet short on experience in politics and the tough world of industry and commerce?
“The most important point I would make is that in times of difficulty, it’s absolutely essential to have a united team running the country,” said Mr Cameron.
“If you ask yourself the question as to how much time Gordon Brown is having to spend on trying to heal divisions in his cabinet, and running his private office, and dealing with a dysfunctioning Downing Street, the answer is ‘quite a lot’.
“We are coming to Birmingham completely unified and that enables the Conservative Party to give a 100 per cent focus to the problems that are actually facing people in the West Midlands and the Black Country.
“Of course Gordon Brown has experience, but he has got the experience of building the biggest budget deficit of any northern industrial country.
“He’s got the experience of setting up the financial regulatory system that failed to stop the run on the Northern Rock bank.
“He’s got the experience of overseeing a big financial boom that has now turned to a bust, having told us there was not going to be any more boom and bust. I don’t think that’s the experience we need, and I think the greater risk is not changing.
“The Conservatives have got a very strong plan for change for our economy - about how to safeguard our financial system in the short term through deposit account insurance and strengthening the Bank of England to get a grip on debt levels.”
Tony Blair’s mantra to his party when Labour were riding high in the opinion polls in the mid-nineties wasn’t “education, education, education”, it was “complacency, complacency, complacency”. Mr Cameron has been cribbing from his hymn sheet.
“We have the plan, we have the people, we have the unity. But I totally accept that we still have a job to do to convince people we are absolutely up to this job, to get it right, and that’s one of the things I want to try to get across in Birmingham this week,” said the Tory leader.
He then quickly rejected any suggestion that his top team comprised a bunch of well-off, privileged, privately and Oxford-educated individuals, who couldn’t understand the difficulties facing, in that horrible phrase “ordinary people”.
Biggest concern
“It matters not where you come from, it’s what you offer. There are a range of people in my shadow cabinet with all sorts of different backgrounds from from different parts of the country,” he said.
But could he, George Osborne and the rest really relate to the hardships the people in the West Midlands are currently suffering?
“I hold surgeries every fortnight, and I can see that right now the biggest concern people have is meeting the household bills - whether that is food bills, fuel bills or filling up the family car, and so many people coming off fixed rate mortgages and going on to a higher rate.
“Obviously the West Midlands is a great manufacturing centre, but there are also many people in financial service jobs - there’s the whole question of the future of Birmingham Midshires, so I do understand these things.
“The question is: Have we got the right plans to deal with them?
“What we will be explaining at our conference is how we will be returning this country to a sense of financial responsibility. The greater spending and debt burden that this Government has presided over has got to come to an end.
“We need to return to good housekeeping, and that’s what the Conservative Party stands for, and we will be making a series of announcements about that over the next few days.”
He said his party would be explaining how the Government should put it’s own house in order.
“Here we are - 14 years of economic growth and we are coming into difficult times with the biggest budget deficit outside Pakistan, Egypt and Hungary. That’s a a disgraceful state of affairs, and we are going to be changing that.”
A Conservative government would change the regulation of financial services, and also re-balance the UK economy.
“Our economy has become too dependent on financial servicves, too dependent on housing, too dependent on government spending.
“We need to give a greater weight to manufacturing, to science, to technology, to the new green technologies as well.
“We will be hearing a comprehensive plan for change for our economy that I think will be of huge benefit to the West Midlands,” said Mr Cameron.
30 Comments
David Cameron reminds me of a cheap copy of Blair.- All spin and no substance.
What the heck does this Hooray Henry know about real life?
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And there was I going to vote BNP, but now Mr Cameron says he will sort the country out - I think I’ll vote for him now.
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Wow, a full article on the Shropshire Star website and one promoting the Conservative party by an Express & Star editor (West Midlands Metro?).
Call me an old cynic but have the SS have nailed their colours to the mast already?
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I saw him interviewed on Andrew Marr’s programme this morning (Sunday).
Interestingly he ruled out the prospect of a tax increase for the wealthiest people in Britain, but pointedly wouldn’t rule out an increase in VAT to 20% (which would hit the poor disproportionately highly), despite being pressed on the topic.
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oh it must be absolutely ecstatic to criticise and carp from the sidelines about alleged government failures over collapsed banks, when it is clear for all to see that the problem is global, in usa, holland, belgium luxembourg denmark, uk etc. what a bunch of spivs and lightweights the tories are, no experience, no know how and generously funded by the city slickers who brought these banks down.
carry on gordon and alistair your efforts are at least recognised by those who want to see stability in the financial institutions. carry on carping diddy david cameron and your gallant bunch of spivs, it is all you are good for.
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Was nice to see that Cameron isn’t a fraid to put a stop to these Sharia Courts that are threatening to disolve the great British culture of fair play and equality - Good on ya Dave!
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I would like to see some policies from the Tories it seems all they do at the moment is blow hot air without giving any plans from when they may me in charge of the country
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Lucy,
A highly sensationalised view of so-called Sharia Courts I would suggest.
These ‘courts’ are used by devout Muslims to mediate in cases of divorce etc. or to resolve property disputes.
If a Muslim whose marriage is in difficulty wishes to consult with his or her spiritual leaders, regarding possible solutions, I have no problem with that. The same thing happens in many churches including Roman Catholicism, The Church of England and Judaism.
These ‘courts’ have no legal standing and any British citizen, as you well know, has access to the civil courts over and above any recommendation made by their religious leaders.
There is no suggestion, other than by trouble-making extremists that these ‘courts’ would seek to deal with anyone outside the Muslim community - can you offer one example of where this has happened?
Your completely unfounded sttatement that this is a threat to ‘the British culture of fair play’ is simply a cheap attempt to engender fear and hatred of one religious group amongst the broader community. Shame on you.
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Peter at his old “double speak” again and as for devon salopian, if he was to be dropped from a space-ship without a parachute he wouldn’t know what a global problem was. I also saw the Andrew Marr show and for a confirmed Labourite I think he gave Cameron quite an easy ride. What he said Peter was that he was not going to give any indications of anything that would likely arise in a Tory budget 2 years in advance when there were still two more Labour budgets to go and he would not know the position of the economy before then. Now, with a bit of “Peter spin” we get a slight re not taxing the rich and imposing 20% VAT. Both total fiction bordering on lies and you know it. I think Cameron came out very well from an easy interview.
Some of these blogs are the stuff that one is getting used to coming from the Telford end of the County, they wouldn’t know about the word “policy” until they heard it on TV.
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stuart, come fly with me from a space-ship,you might learn something oh and bring a parachute for 2 old darling
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Peter, Err, dont you remember that The Archbishop of Canterbury was all for Shria Law to be made legally binding - well if you want to live in a state where women are treated as second class citizen by the legal system, please feel free to leave and go to one. I don’t and dont want to see it in this country. Many of these women feel obliged to accept Sharia Courts for the fear of so called honour killings.
There is no place for this cuture in this green a pleasant land that gave birth to democracy. Demicracy may not be perfect, but I for one certainly dont want to go back to the stone age! And like David Cameron, I’m not afraid to say it - Good on ya Dave, you are just what this country needs in a time of crisis.
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Peter - the point is in a British country - British laws should be the only laws not sharia laws.
If I went to Dubai and started drinking alcohol I would expect to be treated with Dubai laws - I do not think asking to use British laws would carry much cop.
Hope you understand now the point of Lucy W
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Stuart,
He clearly ruled out a rise for the rich, and didn’t rule out a rise in VAT.
Marr asked if Cameron acepted the principle that if taxes had to rise, that might involve taxing the really high earners to take the pressure off the people in the middle.
Cameron’s reply - I don’t accept that premise at all. He went on to attempt to sidestep the issue by claiming that they wouldn’t need to raise taxes if they were prudent over spending, but the clear inference in the answer was that in the event he needs to raise taxes, the rich wouldn’t be his target.
On the VAT question, Marr mentioned that people were talking about a 20% rate.
Cameron then simply said that he wasn’t about to reveal budget plans for the future - so no denial in anything like the terms given in response to the previous question.
You can read a transcript of the interview here:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/andrew_marr_show/7640418.stm
He may decide to tax the rich and not increase VAT, but given that the Tories have form for a) big tax cuts for the very wealthy, and b) using VAT rises as a tax raising measure, I think the electorate have a right to be concerned by his answers.
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“alleged government failures?” Devon Salopian?
Yes. No failures. It is all rosy and nice. Food and domestic inflation is not roaring away and no jobs are being lost.
It seems that despite his name, Devon Salopian lives not in Devon. He is a resident of Fantasy Island!
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No, “you” have reason to be concerned Peter, “you” see things that are not there and read into them what is good for “your” position as a blind Labourite who cannot see the wood for the trees. We don’t need to go over all Labours failings over the past eleven years again, do we, if so, count me out. The most recent one of course is putting us in a bit more hock by making me as a taxpayer liable for the failings of Bradford and Bingley. It has only been known that they were in trouble for the past 12 months and Brown did nothing about it.
One thing is certain, unlike Brown who taxed the poor (by the way have you had your £60 quid tax refund, I have, came in my pension today, the “poor” gave me this because of Brown’s generosity and I don’t really need it but some poor … does from whom it was taken), Cameron certainly won’t give a tax refund to the well-off or slate the poorly paid. Yes, I don’t doubt that public expenditure will decrease, where did you think it came from for Brown to lash out all the cash, HE BORROWED IT, £100 BILLION OF IT.
You can live like a Lord if you get a dozen Credit Cards and take them to the maximum borrowing limit, in effect this is what Brown has done. My pride would not allow me to excuse and support what these clowns in Government have done, shame on you.
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Like him or not DC is the only viable alternative at this moment in time. Hidden taxes abound hitting hard the traditional labour voter, the one time socialist labour party has deserted their traditional values and stabbed the ordinary man in the street in the back.
Pension tax, insurance tax, airport tax, increased duty on fuel, rocketing amenity bills, sky high food bills to name a few.
Time for a swift kick in a delicate region.
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The Tories are coming into power!
I feel sorry for them inheriting a £100 billion debt, but whats new.
Labour inherited a golden goose of an economy and have have wasted and taxed us beyond all reason.
Bring on the election and the promised vote on the EU!
Things can only get better, go Gordon go!! and take the motley crew of a cabinet with you, not fit for purpose.
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Just like Nu Labour, Cameron’s ‘Nu CONservatives’ are pro EU, pro immigration and pro multiculturalism. Their main priorities are (and always have been) sucking up to big business and international finance.
Cameron cannot be trusted. He’s nothing more than a self-seeking career politician. An opportunist, void of any substance. Just like Blair, he’ll say anything to grab votes from all quarters.
Here’s a David Cameron quote from a few years ago:
“If we want to remind ourselves of British values; hospitality, tolerance and generosity to name but three, there are plenty of British Muslims ready to show us what these things really mean. Not for the first time, I find myself thinking that it is mainstream Britain which needs to integrate more with the British Asian way of life, not the other way round”.
David Cameron - `The Observer` 13/5/2005
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Much as I dislike this financial situation, but letting big companies like B & B go to the wall are more likely to do bad things than good. Speculators around the world should watch what they wish for..
Our country is run on those with money, keeping it and getting more. That’s why the lie of Thatcher’s selling-off of each and everyone one of us’s ownership - the shares that the ‘common man’ was supposed to benefit have returned to the speculators and names.
The CONservatives can currently whine from the sides all they like, but they’d do the same if not worse - remember this - they’ll say ANYTHING to get in govt. and then their masters in the city tweak their tail and Cameron will sit at the big table of city speculators and ask how high do they want him to jump.
What else can he sell to pay for as Maggie sold it all - cheap - just like their comments. Though, not cheap to me or you.
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Drew,
Take a long hard look at whewre the current economic crisis came from.
If we were to leave the EU, we would be even more at the whim of the global (principally US-controlled) economy. Do you really want to put us more into the pockets of greedy, failed US bankers?
Stuart, you really need to calm down - all this stress and anger at your age really can’t be good for you. I expressed an opinion, based upon what your (as a blind Tory-ite) said. I offered my suggestion that on the basis of the Tories’ previous record, I think (and those are two very important words - we’re all here to express our opinions) that the electorate should be concerned. Read the comment properly next time before flying off the handle!
Lucy and Y Mab. Sharia law is not binding in the UK. I made that clear in my original response. The Archbishop of Canterbury did not say that he wanted it to be legally binding - I suspect you’ve had that view from either the tabloids or the right wing websites - neither of which are reliable.
You should read the transcript of what he actually said - he talked about it in terms of mediation and in terms of people of that faith verifying that their actions and decisions were in line with their beliefs. There are similar practices in Orthodox Judaism in this country and they’ve been in place for many years.
As for the oppression of women, you may be interested to know that many women successfully use the advice given by Sharia ‘courts’ to get out of unsuitable marriages and avoid retribution for doing so because they’ve done so with the sanction of their religion.
I’m no fan of any religion, but I think we need to afford the same ‘rights’ to all of them - I’m no fan of religious persecution either.
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Peter, I am sitting in my conservatory with my lap-top, dog at my feet, wife reading, son and daughter in law gardening and I am at peace with the world. The only thing that got my hackles up was a few minutes ago when I heard Andrew Lansley, Tory Shadow Health give the most uninspiring speech at Conference that I have heard for a long time. Your little distractions, plugging the “wound-up” gramophone record for New Labour don’t even merit a thought. I generally regard Labour supporters as Andy Caps and Fag-ash Lil’s but regarding you as an intelligent man I think you are the exception to that stereotype and just wonder why you should support such a decrepit, time expired party. Certainly you should know better than try to flannel/spin or otherwise put across false messages with regard to the Tories, we are big enough, old enough and experienced enough to have a go back with the truth.
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Peter in my view and this can be the only view of a sane Government. Religion is a hobby and as a hobby it should have NO place in the laws and government of a country.
I have no problems with anyone’s religion but keep it behind doors or in chorch/mosque etc.
Those people who flaunt religion in a public place ie preachers/ door to door preachers etc etc should be given a big fine and told if they break the law again it will be 6 months behind bars.
And that law will apply to all religions in the UK!!
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matt i agree with all you say all these nasties are happening but and it is a big but the problems are global, oil prices, electricity prices, shortage of wheat, increasing food prices, none of which is caused by or the fault of the government. I have 2 homes one in devon the other in wiltshire, neither remotely match up to fantasy island! and stuart please don’t kick the dog during an outbust on the lap top. just lie back and enjoy gentle socialism and dream of the tory party a long long way on the sidelines.
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Peter: I listened to the Archbishop on Radio 4 trying to wriggle out of what he had said. He never denied the acuracy of the reports - he claim what he meant to say was ….
And I haven’t sen any of those women who have “benefited” from Sharia Law preaching the virtues of a religion that treats women as second class - they cant drive, marry a non-muslim (men can), be educated, fly kites. It may not be open and obvious, but if we dont nip this in the bud, like we should have Hitler, we’re heading for trouble. If Britain hadn’t broken the Treaty of Versailles to appease Hitler, WW2 would probably never happened. All this appeasement is asking for trouble - do we never learn from history?
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Firstly, there is not a shred of difference between the main political parties. Labour, Conservative and Liberal Democrats all represent the same elite interests. Same dog, different collar. Voting for any of the main parties will lead to the collapse of the country. It is the same in America. The Republicans and Democrats represent the same interests of which none are the public interest. Secondly, the argument on Sharia Law is based on tabloid rubbish. Research it yourself. Jewish Beth Din courts have operated in Britain for over 100 years, so instead of opposing one, why not oppose them all? Lucy, honour killings are a barbaric cultural tradition in some parts and have nothing to do with Sharia Law. It is evident in Sikhism as well as Hinduism. I am not in anyway religious, but to say Islam is worse than Christianity or Judaism is nonsense.
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now here is a question, which government brought in vat? and which government successively increased it from 7 1/2 % to 17 1/2% er yes that is right, maggie, maggie maggie’s tory government, and diddy david cameron won’t rule out 20% vat. well now who is the high tax party now, right again the bunch of spivs, i give you and please take them the tory party
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Dan: Jews use British Civil Courts to seek legally binding Judicial Seperations (to comply with their religeous convictions) which is compatible with UK Law where women have equal rights. Judicial Seperation is availabe to anyone regardless of faith and often used by Christians as well.
This is quite different from Sharia Law and the Sharia Courts that impose it. Many Muslim women simply fear using the British Law for retribution. If Sharia Courts were banned, then there would be no alternative than using UK law who’s values and principles have been adopted in all civilised states.
Obviously Sharia Law is attractive to males who wish to dominate females, which probably explains your view point.
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Lucy W - I agree - Only British law in britain.
That would include throwing out European law including the ludricous European bill of human rights.
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Y Mab: Thank you. So nice to hear the voice of reason from our MP!
Thing is with EU Law, its not so bad if we only adpoted the European way of interpreting it - that is not to treat it as something that has to be followed to the letter, but merely a guidline.
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Stuart,
Many thanks for the slightly back-handed compliment. As you’ll have seen from my posts in the past, I am not a whole-hearted fan of New Labour, preferring a more traditional Labour party which sadly no longer exists in these days of centrist politics.
As far as the current administration goes, I see them as the lesser of two evils. Whilst they have made mistakes, as any government does, I look back on 10 years or more of stable interest rates, steady growth, and high levels of employment. I’ve also seen as a consumer of services of both, a big improvement in primary education and in the NHS - though there is still much to be done.
On the other hand I look back on my days as a young working man, under Margaret Thatcher’s government, and remember the constant fear of unemployment and high inflation that haunted many people.
I know you’ve blamed Brown for the demise of final salary pensions, and whilst he was wrong to tax pension funds, that wasn’t what caused their demise - this was caused by major companies taking a payment holiday, then finding that the stock market hadn’t performed as well as they’d hoped. We then saw a wringing of hands, and the complaint that they could no longer afford pensions.
The current economic crisis is also caused by the excesses of a culture of greed which has pervaded international capitalism. Ironically the times when New Labour have performed badly have coincided with their applying the sort of policies that would historically have been the territory of the Conservative Party.
I think that the Tories would be even worse than the current lot - I can’t vote for Brown with much enthusiasm, but I could muster none at all for Cameron and Osborne.
Y Mab - I agree that Sharia ‘law’ should have no place in the legal system of this country - as far as I know no-one other than scaremongerers and a handful of extremists are suggesting it should or might. Perhaps the term ‘law’ is a confusing one - it’s more of a code of conduct for those living one sort of religious life. As Dan pointed out, Judaism has used similar ‘courts’ for many years.
Lucy - I’m astonished that an apologist for the BNP should seek to lecture the rest of us on how we could have avoided the rise of Hitler! Please read the Archbishop’s full statement (you’ll find it on the web in a number of places). At present you seem to be relying on soundbites for your information.
And where are the Muslim women in the UK who can’t drive, marry non-Muslims or even fly kites? (how many want to fly kites?!)
I think you’re getting confused with Saudi Arabia and Afghanistan under the Taleban. Both are a million miles philosophically from most British Muslims.
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