I’m fuming, readers, at my latest crop of fines for petty traffic offences, writes blogger Emma Suddaby. I’d understand if my driving had been dangerous - if that were the case I’d throw the book at myself - but it’s not.
On my way back from a charity job in Lincolnshire, one of our much-loved Gatso cameras got me. In mitigation, I was clocked doing 39mph in a 30mph zone but the camera is situated immediately after the zone changes from 40mph and just over the brow of a hill. Sneaky.
I was in central Lincoln, in a three-lane system. Being unfamiliar with the town, I was more worried about driving safely and keeping my eyes on other traffic and pedestrians rather than on my speedometer. Which vividly illustrates what we all already knew . . . that these cameras are all about money, not road safety.
Then the other day, I had an appointment at the orthopaedic hospital in Gobowen. I parked in the same place I’ve parked in for the past 10 years, a scrubby waste-ground kind of car park but much closer than any of the public, all-singing, all-dancing ones.
When I came back a day-glo parking parasite was hovering around my car, with the sort of self-righteous, smug look on his face that told me all I needed to know.
“You’ve just got yourself a ticket!” he announced, revelling in his brief opportunity to wield a bit of power.
Turns out, the car park was reclassified in December as a staff-only car park. All I can say is, they must have held the grand opening in the middle of the night, waiting until everyone had gone before whipping the covers off the brand new signs, because nothing has changed. It’s still just a pot-holed gravelled bit of wasteland.
The new signs have been attached to existing posts but at a height of about 12ft. The only times I might spot them, I’m scuttling from car to entrance, head down into the wind, trying not to get soaked!
The public car parks are further than I can walk from everywhere I need to go, given my aggressive, destructive rheumatoid arthritis, and more importantly, require me to operate a ticket machine which, I’m unable to do.
I can’t feed the coins in and I can’t press the buttons to give it my car registration or the button to issue the ticket. The only time I tried, I had to approach a passer-by and ask them to help. And that’s just humiliating.
I understand that we’re being encouraged to leave our cars at home and walk or take the bus to save traffic congestion, parking and the planet. We’re encouraged with overt policy changes like congestion charging, and by more subtle means - reducing parking and extending pedestrian areas.
But what about those of us who don’t have the luxury of leaving the car at home?
My car is my lifeline. It takes me all the places my legs can’t, but there are no provisions made for me and people like me in this anti-car push.
To add to the farce, were I to live just a few miles away, over the Welsh border, I’d be entitled to free homecare, free prescriptions, access to expensive drug treatments that aren’t available here, and now free hospital parking. They’ve seen sense, why can’t our lot?
How ironic that a government so committed to equal rights should be responsible for policies that are helping to make the world less and less accessible to the disabled.
- Inspirational Emma Suddaby shares her ” highs, lows - and various murky places inbetween” - with her weekly blog. Emma, a finalist in the 2007 Shropshire Star Woman of the Year competition, was diagnosed with aggressive, destructive rheumatoid arthritis at the age of 22. She has since won a dream flying scholarship with the charity Flying Scholarships for the Disabled and is now training for a National Private Pilot’s Licence.
74 Comments
You broke the rules, you got caught. Stop whining about it.
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so effectively what you’re saying Emma is that you’d like to break the law and expect to get away with it? think again, be aware of your surroundings and SLOW DOWN.
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8/10 for the rant, Emma.
It would have been 10/10 if you’d have confirmed being nipped by a mobile “scamera” not a yellow fixed one.
Yet another example of roadside automatons addressing one of the least dangerous aspects of driving.
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You were in the middle of a town driving at 40 MPH yet you claim you were concerned with safety.
Oh dear oh dear.
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sounds like you need an eye test. your excuses are pityful at best. mybe now you will slow down when in a strange area and look where you park a little closer, thanks for the coffers.
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travelling at 20mph, one child in 20 is killed
travelling at 30mph, half are killed
travelling at 40 mph, most are killed
I’m glad that you feel these offences are ‘petty’. Of course you can keep your speed down - you will have somehow ‘managed’ it for your driving test…
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I take it you have never been hit by a speeding motorist or have had to deal with the consequences of an accident invloving a speeding vehicle. I can assure you neither are great and it is 30mph for a reason, not to generate money but to protect less selfish people than yourself.
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the hole of the uk is about makeing money not about safty
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Jane - perhaps if kids didn’t play on the road they wouldn’t get hit!!!
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You can’t pick and choose the laws / rules you want to abide by. (disabled or not)
“day-glo parking parasite” he probably thinks your just a Journalist who can’t stop moaning and thinks the rules don’t apply to you.
You can’t call people names because you don’t like what they do / who they are. As someone who has a disablility you should no better!
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You brought it on your self, if you can’t judge what speed you are travelling at without keeping your eyes glued to the speedo you should not be driving.
It is outrageous that you should make mention of charity events in an attempt to gain sympathy for the fact that you have broken the law. It is equally outrageous that you should make such petty comments about a man doing his job without giving him the opportunity to respond.
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I suppose you have to say “do the crime, pay the fine” but I have to agree with her frustrations.
If car parks didn’t want to have the pleasure of fining people they would ensure that everyone was made aware of changes to the rules.
If speed cameras are about making people slow down rather than making money from speeding motorists, they should have the speed limit painted on the back of them so people wouldn’t speed!
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Emma,I would agree it does seem morally wrong to charge for parking at hospitals, especially those in the middle of the countryside - however it was signed - so no excuse.
Your other rants are self inflicted. If i’m unfamiliar with an area - I slow down - even if i’m not keeping up with the traffic - most people I know do look at their speed and the road - if we couldn’t do that then all of us would speed wouldn’t we?
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Always, ALWAYS someone’s else’s fault isn’t it? What a pathetic list of excuses. You were caught speeding. Just admit it and agree that you were in the wrong, whether or not the camera is “money-making”.
And “On my way back from a charity job” - what a pathetic thing to put. Are you suggesting that, in some way, because you were doing a charity job, it is then ok to break the law? Pathetic.
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Geoff - I agree but then I don’t have any children myself. Instead I work for the Emergency Services and pick up the pieces. Perhaps you would like to try and re-educate parents and children, as well as drivers too. (and yes, I have tried to do my bit in the past…)We all have a part to play in making roads safer.
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Lots of the usual comments here from self righteous individuals who have obviously never put a foot wrong since passing their tests. I would sooner take my chances with someone travelling a little over the limit than a driver who is under the influence of drink, drugs etc and who is increasingly likely to be in “control” of an un-registered, un-taxed vehicle with no insurance. Will the “safety cameras” protect me from the latter? Of course they won’t, only regular police patrols will deter those individuals. Instead, what are we given for our taxes? less police and more cameras - you work it out because I can’t.
According to recent reports in either Auto Express magazine, or in Quentin Wilson’s motoring column in a Sunday tabloid, this country now falls behind several European neighbours in the road safety stakes, and that cameras have not made a significant impact in reducing road casualties. I believe that these statistics speak for themselves and give much weight to the argument that cameras are simply revenue raising devices.
As I have commented before, I don’t have a problem if they are sited sensibly (e.g. outside schools); I do however have a problem with the lies and misinformation supplied by the authorities with regard to their true purpose.
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Is this the same person who wrote the last rant about inconsiderate motorists??
It is not sneaky to put a speed camera in a 30 zone just after it has changed from a 40, you are supposed to adjust your speed BEFORE you enter the 30mph zone. This is for the safety of those who live within the zone. And it’s not like the 30mph signs aren’t big enough!!!
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You are quite right in what you say Alex, you all too often see speed camera warning sign but more rarely these days do you see signs actually displaying a speed limit. All too often I have found myself going along at thirty for ages then seeing the odd 40 mph sign which is so faded it is almost impossible to see. If they concentrayed on road signs, white lines as much and potholes as much as the money they spend on speed cameras then the roads would be much better. there is a forty MPH road near me that has accidents frequently but the filter lines are so badly worn they have not been visible for two years now but they don’t repaint them but you have to wonder how many accidents are down to not knowing where the lanes are and how many to speeding?
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Sounds a bit of self serving ranting to me. There are plenty of good arguments against these frustartions to life but I am not impressed with these.
Congratulations that you will get to do a flying course. A bit worried that you cannot work a ticket machine or feed coins into it but that you will be let loose with an airplane. At least there will be no speed traps in the sky.
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Mark is right, if situated in the right places they can be an effective tool. However money corrupts and the authorities have long since lost the moral argument amid the pack of statistical lies used to support them.
Apparently the signs that flash your speed up are considerably more effective, unfortunately you cant raise £60 a time with them.
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Jane: “travelling at 20mph, one child in 20 is killed
travelling at 30mph, half are killed
travelling at 40 mph, most are killed
Teach children the Green Cross code and they would not be wandering around aimlessly in the middle of the road to be hit at ANY speed.”
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I’ve been caught twice for speeding in my twenty plus years of driving. I moaned and complained at the time(s) to anyone who was near enough to listen. You can’t win, they have you: it would be nice if they spent the extra money on patching the potholes we have through out our county’s roads. Still, I’d much prefer cameras that are well articulated than speed bumps that so far in the last two years have cost me the equivalent of 9 points in shock absorber repairs. Hey ho.
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There are literally thousands of disabled drivers in and around Shropshire - my self included in that number. There is no excuse for speeding, the limit is there to be adhered to, likewise parking restrictions and parking fees are also there for ALL of us, not just the select few. Fact is, you should have observed the warning signs about the camera (there are always clearly legible signs situated before the camera itself, there has to be by law)having failed to slow down accordingly has resulted in your having been caught/fined etc…Your disability and semi fame as a Shropshire Star blogger make no difference, if you can’t stand the fine-don’t do the crime!
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i think speed cameras are not just about speed and accidents i think they are there to make you pay attention ! which clearly emma is not ! i dont have the luxury of driving anymore ! how hard is it to glance at your speedo when you check your mirrors which should be on average every 7 seconds but in a built up area like a town where there are pedestrians you should check speedo and mirrors every couple of seconds ! after all whats the point in watching the pedestrians if your going so fast your going to hit them anyway !there are also many indicators of what speed you should be going like regular street lights which normally means 30 and conditions of the area rain time of day etc.
you can appeal against parking tickets if its not clearly marked ! but i doubt emma was paying attention again as she was yet again looking at the “all singing all dancing” public
because of course everyone who goes to hospital is well all bar poor emma like women in labour and parents coming to see there extremely ill children they dont get special parking !
then she notices the parasite that was doing his job because he and his family dont get free prescriptions and treatment too!
would you like someone to hold an umberella for you too ? so you can notice any signs that somebody just might put up ? get your head out the clouds ! at least you can drive ! like you deserve it !
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“Hit me at 40, and there’s an 80% chance I’ll die. Hit me at 30 and there’s an 80% chance I’ll live”.
Use the Green Cross Code, stop, look, and listen for traffic, and increase your chances of living to 100%. In the meantime, I’ll stay alert, use COAST principles, drive at or around the speed limit depending on traffic density and immediate hazards (I may drive below it or above it), and if you do sprint into the road for no apparent reason, then I’ll hit you with an impact speed greatly decreased from my free-travelling speed as modern braking systems are incredibly efficient at scrubbing speed off. Most modern cars will stop from 30 in around 25 feet.
Scameras have never been required to be sited at “blackspots”, by the way. Guidelines state that they can be placed anywhere within a 1 mile radius of a cluster of accidents. They are nothing to do with road safety, whatsoever and have - since their introduction - made our roads more dangerous.
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My my my, hark at all the self righteous people casting their judgements, and I’ll bet most of them never drive further than their nearest post office, if they drive at all !
Of course, as soon as they do venture out onto unfamiliar roads, and get snared by a speed camera they will soon change their tunes.
I drive 30,000 miles a year, and I rarely follow a car that is driving within the speed limit in towns. There are those who are aware they are exceeding the speed limit, and there are even more who are not aware they are breaking the law, and I’ll wager many of the above commentors fall into the latter category !
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Bitter Lady thinks we should all take our eyes off the road every two seconds to look at our speedometer and rear view mirrors. Given the time it takes for eyes to refocus from long distance to short distance and back again, that means we would actually be focused on where we are going for less than 25% of the time! Thank goodness Bitter Lady doesnt drive anymore, she would be a menace on the roads with her idealistic and impractical ideas.
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WHICH IS SAFER A DRIVER WHO WATCHES HIS OR HER SPEEDOMETER OR A DRIVER A FEW MPH OVER THE LIMIT WITH BOTH EYES ON THE ROAD????
I KNOW WHICH I’D RATHER STEP IN FRONT OF
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Whine, whine, whine. I’ve been caught by a speed camera, I’ve paid the fine, I’ve had the points on my licence, and it didn’t make me change my tune.
I don’t care if speed cameras are anything to do with road safety. They catch people breaking the law, and that’s fine by me.
If you can’t keep your eye on both the road and your speed, you should hand your licence in. After all, you must have lost the ability to do so since you took your driving test.
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So Allie, as you have points on your licence , you obviously are incapable of observing your speed and the road at the same time…so are you going to hand your licence in???
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best thing to do is make it so cars cant go faster than the max speed of 70 miles hour just think of the of the petrol we would save and good for the planet to
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I’m afraid to say that a lot of the comments in this thread seem to display a “holier than thou” attitude, and not about displaying any knowlege or experience of driving.
I have beed driving since 1964, that’s 44 years.
In that time I have easily averaged 20,000 miles per year, having driven most of this country, and in other parts of the world. - Yest - thats over 800,000 miles !!
I can hoenstly say that my experienced opinion is that cameras do NOT improve driving skills but just arbitrarily make you reduce speed.
Driving is ALL about AWARENESS. NOTHING should come as a surprise.
The person who made the comment “I’d rather be folowing someone who’s looking at the road, and not his speedo” is absolutely right.
Read any book on advanced driving, and, whilst no none will condone breaking “a law” - what the books WILL tell you is “OBSERVATION” and being always prepared for the hazard ahead, which may NOT ALWAYS mean going SLOWER.
On the contrary, being in the right gear, in the right postion to ACCELARATE out of trouble is often a safer option.
As i say - I PREFER to rely on experience, not typical ill informed responses from an audience quoting phrases about the probability of someone being killed at 20Mph and 40 Mph.
All this is typical of the dumbed down society we live in, a society only capable of driving between white yellow and red lines on the road.- and being made to be subservient to arbirtary speed cameras that do nothing to improve the driving skills of the general public.
As I’ve said - I consider myself to be an above average experienced driver - and NO ONE has EVER ASKED ME for my OPINION !!
As i say - I’ve got 40
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Stop whining, watch TV and see the difference between life and death between 30 and 40mph!I get tired of being overtaken when I’m driving at the designated speed limit, and its people like me who end up getting injured because people like you disregard the law. As for the Gobowen hospital moan, I almost parked there this week, having parked there previously, and immediately saw the new notice, so why didn’t you?
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well said allie
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Lets hope she pays more attention to Air Traffic Control than she does to her driving. If she decides that a motorway is a nice place to land her plane because its raining and she cant be bothered to abide by the rules I’m sure it will be ok because she is disabled.
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Matt- read my above post - I do not have children (!!)and I have helped with several road safety projects… so don’t tell me, tell the peolpe who matter!!
And yes I have been on the recieving end of a child running out onto a (wet) road from behind a skip in a 40mph zone when I was yards from her. Luckily I was driving at about 35 mph and *just* managed to brake and swerve around her. I don’t know who was more shaken, me or her but but I walked her home and told her parents what had happened.
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… and well said Allie, spot on…!!
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Maybe Allie would change her tune if she drove anything like the mileage some of us drive on business. Caught once would be caught four times if she drove that much more. Yes one speeding ticket is not much to whine about, but four is a different matter involving court appearances and bans. Some of the commentors on here cannot see past their own circumstances. Drive the length and breadth of the country a few times a month, then you might be better placed to have an opinion on the subject.
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“I can’t feed the coins in and I can’t press the buttons to give it my car registration or the button to issue the ticket.”
Which hospital were you really at Emma? any who goes to oswestry knows that you dont put your registration in the machine were as you do at RSH and PRH hospital
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Dave (post no.27), good common sense. Let us not forget Austin Williams (previous Director of the Transport Research Laboratory) who once stated, “Show me someone who has never broken a speed limit, and I’ll show you either a liar or a menace”.
Allie (post no.29), I’d like to explore your comment, “I don’t care if speed cameras are anything to do with road safety. They catch people breaking the law, and that’s fine by me.”.
OK.
So speed cameras are placed to enforce a given speed limit. I think we all agree on that. If, Allie - by your own admission - that you don’t care whether scameras are placed for road safety reasons, then it follows logically that the speed limits they are there to enforce are equally nothing to do with road safety. Yet the scamera partnerships have for years continually stood on their collective soapboxes and claimed that scameras save lives!
And the fact of the matter is that they are not. Road deaths in this country were falling nicely, and in a steady manner from the 1930’s to the 1990’s. From 1994, the trend has become sporadic, and littered with “blip” increases. “Lives are saved at camera sites” the scam partnerships claim, yet nationally, road deaths are not decreasing as they should be, which suggests to me that the accidents are being moved elsewhere away from the scamera sites.
So, Allie, if speed cams and the speed limits they enforce are nothing to do with road safety, what exactly are the cameras and limits there for?
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I recently visited an area of Leicester that was unfamiliar to me. While paying too much attention to my navigation I was photographed exceeding the speed limit. It’s the first time a Gatso has ever snapped me. What did I do about it? I paid my fine, took my points and reminded myself to pay more attention to ALL aspects of my driving in future. I think that’s the point of them.
The truth is, speed cameras only make money out of motorists who break the law. Whining about it just belies the biographical description of you. You clearly have no respect for anyone else’s point of view, or their job. If you think that attending charitable functions and having a disease entitles you to special status above the normal laws of the land, stop having yourself referred to as “inspirational” and start having yourself more correctly described as “self-important and self-involved”.
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would you use such an excuse to the parent of a child whom you had hit…i very much doubt it.
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So you were in an unfamiliar town, concerned with “driving safely” and therefore should have been paying close attention to your surroundings, yet you failed to notice great big signs showing the speed limit had reduced to 30mph?
I don’t think I’ve ever read such a catalogue of poor excuses for breaking the law. Is it one rule for you, because you were at a CHARITY do, and another for everyone else? It’s 30mph for a reason, but I’m guessing you’ve never had to deal with the family of someone killed by a speeding driver, have you? I’d like to see you try and use those excuses in a court of law after you’ve knocked down a small child and killed them while committing your “petty traffic offence” of doing 39 in a 30 zone.
I’m honestly disappointed the Shropshire Star has let such a whining, self-pitying blog be published. You broke the law, live with the consequences and stop complaining.
And that “day-glo parking parasite” was doing his job and obviously doing it well. You parked where you shouldn’t so why should you be let off? Again, you seem to expect one rule for you and another for everyone else.
I’m sure I read one of your blogs which stated something along the lines of “I must seem like I’m always complaining, but I’m not like that, honestly.” Yeah, whatever.
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Well said askeric dotcom, there are too many bad drivers in this country that depend on the dumbing down of society to compensate for their failure to improve , observe or adapt. If they were to take their test every few years they would find it difficult to stay on the road.Some people after five years or more of driving, still drive as badly as when they first took their test, they should take regular tests which become more advanced as the years go on.
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Its interesting to read how many of the contributions on here try to defend the speed cameras and quote the age old ‘what if you hit a child’ chestnut, assuming that someone who is exceeding the speed limit is more likely to do that. In my experience, people who are travelling at or slightly over the speed limit are far more aware of their surroundings, and far more in control of their vehicle than people who are travelling well below the speed limit. In my experience, people driving well below the speed limit are doing so because they are not competent enough drivers to drive at the limit. These are also the drivers most likely to hit someone.
I also think, in a debate such as this, people who wish to express an opinion should come clean about whether they are in fact themselves drivers, or whether they are just passing judgement on something they actually know nothing about. I have a feeling some of the above posters have never driven in their lives. Likewise I’m fairly certain some dont ever drive further than their nearest high street. They should state if this is the case, so we can ignore their opinions which are based on nothing but their imagination.
I am a 25,000+ mile per year driver.
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Do any of the above commenters who advocate speed cameras have any proof that they work and - as purported by the scam partnerships - save lives?
Links / stats / information provided by the likes of BRAKE / T2000 / Slower Speeds Initiative are disallowable as they have all demonstrated a thinly veiled dislike of cars and drivers as a whole.
It’s sad that the vast majority of comments above prove that the government’s incessant “speed kills” message has finally brainwashed the populate into thinking that blind compliance with a roadside number equals safe driving.
A classic that I remember was a caller to the Jeremy Vine show on Radio 2 who stated, “I don’t need to use my indicators because I never drive faster than the speed limit”.
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Well said Spindrift….I see loads of “safe” drivers on the roads these days, they never go above 25 MPH even in a 40 MPH limit and obviously because thay are so “safe” they don’t need to use their indicators or mirrors or even bother getting in the right lane at roundabouts.
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I wasn’t saying she is an incompetent driver, just simply that you got caught and “if” you had hit someone would you be using these excuses ????
And being a competent driver does not make it okay to exceed the speed limit no matter how good a driver you may be.
And yes it does mkae them more likely to hit someone as you can not alway predict what pedestrians may do, you may be fully aware of them walking on the pavement but are you phsycic do you know when and if they will suddenly decide to cross the road or fetch a ball??? And if you aren’t speeding you will be more likely to stop in time and not hit them.
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A Girl
Are you incapable of understanding what we are saying, or do you just refuse to listen?
Someone who is exceeding the speedlimit by 9 miles per hour, but who has reactions which are twice as fast as someone who is on the speedlimit, will be less likely to hit a pedestrian who suddenly steps into the road.
Someone who is exceeding the speedlimit by 9mph, but who is looking at the road, will be less likely to hit a pedestrian than someone who is looking at their speedometer when they step into the road.
Someone who is exceeding the speedlimit by 9mph but who is concentrating on their driving instead of daydreaming along is less likely to hit a pedestrian who steps out.
Being a ‘competent’ driver means you are able to safely judge how fast you can go without being a danger to others. Unfortunately INCOMPETENT drivers are unable to see that, because they cannot comprehend that others can do what they cannot do themselves!
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Can we just move away from the, “hitting a pedestrian” situation for a moment.
Speed limits, and indeed scameras, are not these days sensibly applied. Take Telford as an example. The A442 has been reduced to a 60 limit for some time. It used to have signs stating “174 casualties in 5 years”. What most people do not know is that of those 174, 156 of them were “slight” (the council’s own words). So the speed limit was reduced because - seemingly - 90% of casualties over 5 years received a bruised knuckle.
The A491 between Hagley and Fairfield is a well surfaced stretch of dual carriageway with good forward visibility. Two years ago, the limit was reduced to 60 for no apparent reason, and a 50 limit introduced for a short stretch of it. The 50 limit is regularly patrolled by a mobile scam van, positioned in such a way that it can’t be seen until the last second.
Huge swathes of Derbyshire roads that were previously NSL are systematically being reduced to 50 limits, as are Suffolk roads.
Why?
Because most of the populate and most councilistas have been suckered into thinking that reduced speed limits are the panacea for road death reduction, when - in truth - 95% of road deaths are caused by something other than exceeding a speed limit.
Now “inattention” cameras, however, really would be a good thing.
PS
A Girl makes a good point.
Driver education needs to be concentrated on “old fashioned” messages. Regardless of speed, drivers need to be vigilant around ice cream vans, buses, and when balls bounce into the road. But that’s too complex isn’t it? “Kill Your Speed” is punchier, and simpler, and evidently less effective.
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Hi David …
Well said in response to “girl”
Well Well ….. as I said earlier -driving is all about AWARENESS, and NOTHING should come as a SURPRISE!
This means that you continuously monitor what is happening before you.
You will be looking for example, at parked cars, the movement of pedestrians lurking nearby - what time is it ? is it near school time - are there children about ??
I read in a police class one drivers manual a few years ago that the police class one driver often spotted unusual events before his “co driver” in the passenger seat becuase of his /her advanced observation skills.
As I’ve said earlier - Ive driven over 800,000 miles in 44 years, and can recount many times I have avoided crtical situations by observation, and forward planning of my driving at the time.
I am deeply concerned that what we are really seeing here is the real “hate the motorist” lobby - many of whom do not have the skill or experience to comment intelligently.
Also - as I said earlier - I consider that, in view of my extensive experience of driving over 44 years, without incident, over 800,000+ miles ….. that it would be nice to be consulted by these so called “partnerships” about what I, and others like me, who have earned their place by experience as to what we think is right and proper in all of this.
I really do despair !!
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I agree, the real danger on the roads today are the drivers who simply are not concentrating on the road ahead. They often do not signal or look in their mirror because they are “concentrating”, but concentrating too hard on their speedo and because they only drive short distances daily do not have the experience to know that they should split their concentration amongst observing their suuroundings i.e. motorists, pedestrians, road conditions etc, they are oblivious to others around them but continue to crawl along at a set limit that they feel “safe ” at usually well below the speed limit. The problem then is if some-one overtakes them it breaks their “concentration” and they get annoyed because they then have something else to think about.
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Unfortunately, these “safe” motorists are the ones who complain most about speeding motorists when what they are really upset about is the fact that someone has invaded their “safe” zone which to them is the hundred yards immediately ahead of them. A classic example happened to me last week, I was following someone for miles at 30 MPH in a 40 MPH zone, as soon as the road ahead was clear I overtook him to continue at 40MPH, then he starts flasshing his lights etc…what had I done wrong….invaded his “safe” zone for a few seconds , that’s what!!!
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The real problem here is there are too many people on the roads now who are incapable of handling a car safely. They cannot judge speed with relation to distance, hence they pull out in front of you and then crawl along, or they are physically incapable of operating the controls fast enough. These people drive slowly, and believe they are safe and everyone else isnt. I guess if they have an accident they console themselves with the thought that they were within the speed limit so it wasnt their fault !
One other point I would make - I frequently follow this type of driver, they crawl along in a 60mph limit at 35-40, but it amazes me how often they come into a 30 limit and continue at the same speed. How many of these motorists are posting above berating speeders, when their own driving skills are so poor they dont even know that they exceed the speed limit themselves?
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I’m seeing lots of talk here about awareness and concentration on the road ahead and the surroundings. So how do you miss the big red and white signs signalling the speed limit has dropped to 30mph, if you’re being so highly aware, safe and observant?
Whether a camera catches you or not, it’s illegal to break the speed limit on any stretch of road. Break the law, live with a few points on your licence and a fine, stop whinging and slow down.
And yes, I am a driver, in my 20s and I average about 18,000 miles a year. I drive at the speed limits, not over or below them unless the conditions dictate taking it a bit slower, and have never had a speeding ticket. I agree there is more to safe driving than simply speed, and I get as frustrated as the next person when someone is doing 40mph in a 60mph zone on a clear, dry day with excellent visibility. But trying to excuse being caught exceeding the speed limit with the excuse that you were still “safe” doesn’t change the fact that you broke the law.
It’s three points and a £60 fine. Live with it and be more aware next time. If you’re not speeding, you won’t get caught! Same rules for everyone.
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Hi David …
Some years ago I coined the phrase “unispeeders” for the guys who drive too slowly on the open road (50/60 single 70 dual) - but when in a 30 Mph limit, carry on at the same speed
And - for the irritating people that follow a unispeeder on the open road, all following far too close and building up a queue, thus making safe overtaking where safe to do so difficult if not impossible ….. a “gaggle (of geese)
How many so call “safe drivers” do you see on the open road following large slow moving vehicles (safe drivers because they too are travelling slowly..) far too close, thus restricting their view of the road ahead, and again ,making safe progress impossible ?
I could go on and on !!!
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You are so right David, these people only know one speed and they feel safe at that speed but basically they have fallen into some kind of trance whereby if someone was to step out in front of them they would not know how to react.
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Unfortunately, Telford and many other areas of the UK are catering for these incabable drivers who will not travel above 40 MPH by reducing all speed limits to 40 MPH so they do not feel intimidated even though they are spending large sums of money doing it at the expense of road maintenance and often going against Dept for Transport guidelines in doing so.
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MiaLou
You are seeing lots of talk but appear to have a problem in understanding it. We are not saying that competent drivers who are aware of their surroundings are “missing” the speedlimit signs.
What we are saying is - Just because a sign says 30 does not mean that it is unsafe to go faster. Likewise, it does not necessarily mean it is safe to go that fast! You should judge your speed according to the conditions.
If you are driving past a school at ‘going home’ time, could you stop if a child suddenly tripped and fell of the kerb if you are doing 30mph? If you are within a few yards, then almost certainly that child would be dead even though you were travelling at the ‘legal limit’. A competent driver would be aware and would have slowed down further.
I appreciate your honesty in admitting you are a relatively new driver, and wonder how many similar comments posted above are from equally inexperienced drivers who travel less miles in a year than some of us travel in a month.
To be honest some of the comments above make me seethe. Stupid drivers righteously chastising motorists who use their brains instead of just accepting blindly what they are told by inanimate road signs. They should all put woolly jumpers on and go and stand in a field. There’s a good reason why sheep dont drive.
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I was thinking. As the newest speed cameras can catch you doing just 33mph in a 30pmh speed limit area; Whenever traveling through one I will admit most of my attention is on my speed dial. People are ranting at how you should be able to tell how fast you are driving without looking at your dial, but how many people can detect the difference of 3pmh? Thats the same speed as someone walking past your car when you are stationary at the lights!
To further point out, going to slow below the limit, ie 25 or less, causes everyone behind you to get angry, thus making a scenario where an accident could happen.
Tbh I personally dont think you can win? I dont agree with speeding at 70mph through a 30mph at 3:30pm in a town. But I dont dissagree with doing 40mph in a 30mph at midday or at night?
I personally once went past a police car, doing about 50mph in a 30mph (I admit I was rushing . The police car did not react at all, just carried on driving.
Now if i would have drove past him at 25pmh swaying from side to side due to me being drunk or god forbid.. looking at my speedometer… I am sure the car would have turned round and pulled me over…
I think thats proved my point, which is you cant win.
Yes its the law, so in theory we should abide by it. But it doesn’t mean I like doing so or we will get reprimanded for breaking it…
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My My !!!!! ……
Haven’t we opened a can of worms here !!
Are we not seeing the start, in this thread, of a long overdue healthy debate amongst more experienced drivers - who are long overdue consideration ???
Can I suggest to the Shropshire Star Moderators of this excellent medium - that we transfer this debate to a platform chaired by the local representatives of the Institute of Advanced Motorists ??
What a truly EXCELLENT platform to get drivers ACTIVELY participating in enhancing their driving skills - instead of blindly accepting blatant propaganda from so called “authorities”
And NO - I’m not a member of the Institute of Advanced motorists. I have often intended to follow it up . but maybe now is the time !
Over to YOU shrophire Star - Let’s get a proper debate going which will REALLY improve driving skills, and hence make ALL roads and drivers safer
How about that then ??
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Yes Gregg in the good old days of speed cops,they could and did use discretion and would give you a warning if you were straying over the speed limit but not outright dangerous but cameras don’t take anything in to account even the fact that most speedos are 10% innacurate which is 3 mph at 30 MPH and 6 mph at 60 MPH.
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Just a litle note to Mia Lou.
I’m not sure who exactly your comment earlier “how do you miss the big red and white signs …..” was aimed at.
What I would say is this. (at the risk of repeating myself and becoming boring) …. Driving IS all about observation, and then, nothing comes at a surprise ! - including speed limit signs!!
What is also evident, from experience, is that if you are making regular observations as you progress along your journey, you will be automatically travelling at a safe speed, regardless of what your speedo says! - and that speed may very well be well below the signed speed limit (example - in a busy town centre such as Bridgnorth - speed limit 30 - or along a stretch of road approaching a school at around 9.00 am / 3.30 -4.00 pm , or past a fire station /ambulance exit etc
You might also notice that in all of my threads above I have never spoken of EXCEEDING the speed limit - but concentrated on the concept of a SAFE speed, and SAFE driving practices. The two concepts are entirely different, and embodying this “concept” into your driving skill set is what separates you from, and makes you safer than… the rest !
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askeric makes some excellent points.
A “safe” speed is one that is dictated - by and large - by prevailing conditions, be they weather / traffic / car condition / pedestrian etc. A “safe” speed for the prevailing conditions is always fluid, unlike a set speed “limit” which is a blunt instrument for the guidance of good drivers and the blind obedience thereof by poor drivers.
Some of the speed limits, and scam placements, that I see in 23,000 miles per year of driving are understandable. Most, however, are cynical, poorly applied, and seemingly implemented by those who either do not drive or have vested interests in impeding the progress of drivers; drivers who - in the main - should be congratulated and encouraged in their everyday driving skills.
And that is the point.
Bludgeoning simplistic messages into drivers heads such as “KILL YOUR SPEED” for example, along with non-discretionary enforcement like speed cams, just continues to treat drivers like idiots and de-values their skills. And, statistics show, that if you treat drivers like idiots they will continue to behave as such.
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Yes I am a driver, Yes I do drive long distances regularly and Yes I have been caught speeding by a gatso. But instead of asking for sympathy and whining about it I was big enough to acknowledge that I was in the wrong and should have been paying more attention.
Which event/place I was travelling to/from (be it charity or otherwise)is completely irrelevant and unless a dire emergency is no excuse anyway.
Emma take a leaf out of my book, stop whining and pay more attention in the future to both speed limits and parking signs!
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If mobile speed cameras were located in places of obvious danger e.g. by schools at 8.30am or in residential areas then maybe the safety idea may be justified. If they are located on the ends on long straight roads, or otherwise taking advantage of natural hiding places then the suspicion is that the operators are more interested in a “kill” and bonus payments than preventing accidents. The location of Shropshire & N Wales cameras seems to be aimed at encouraging drivers to overtake slow moving vehicles on sharp bends with double white lines.
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Can I just ask out of all of these replies - how many people are actually adavanced drivers on here ? Not by their own perception or by way of how many miles they drive a year, but have actually passed any form of advanced driving course?
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Jane
I have passed courses on advanced driving, I have done training on a skidpan, and have also had some training on race tracks. I cant see why any of this is relevant though. Anyone of reasonable intelligence can take a training course and pass. Following instructions in test conditions isnt so difficult.
I have also driven over half a million miles in my lifetime, and, so far, have never been involved in an accident.
I believe this last fact is far far more meaningful in showing who is a capable driver than any certificate from an advanced motoring organisation.
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Yes , Jane, I have passed the IAM test, have you?
I notice earlier that you agreed with Allie when she said that anyone that could not observe the speedo and the road ahead should hand in their licence even though she admitted she had broken the speed limit and been fined for it herself. Surely this is very hypocritical of her as I’m sure she has still retained her licence.
Safe driving isn’t neccessarily about passing tests or sticking to a set speed, as some of the other guys said its all about observation and matching your driving to the conditions, which in all fairness is something that should come naturally as you get more experienced and cover more miles, but as with most things in life text book learning does not replace experience.
Unfortunately some of the people, making the laws in this country and setting the speed limits are office bound with liitle driving experience and in some cases don’t even drive and it seems that some of the “anti speed” protesters are also anti car.
Many of the speed limits in this country are being reduced from 60 to 40 MPH for no reason, often on roads that have had the sixty limit since the petrol crisis of the mid seventies and they were roads that had a seventy limit before then.
While I agree with speed limits of thirty for towns and built up areas, why should so many roads have their speed limits slashed by so much for no apparent reason but a government anti speed campaign?
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OK.
I’ll hold my hand up first and state that I have not taken IAM or RoSPA advanced driving courses.
In my defence, I would say that I always use COAST principles whilst driving, and employ the more useful practices from the Police Drivers Handbook “Roadcraft” (lifting my vision / position for observation etc etc).
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Dave- yes, professionally (Services Blue light advanced, and fast response driving) and privately, car & bike (both RoSPA) but it really was just a question…!! I certainly don’t have any moral high ground on anyone!! I certainly agree with Dave re: what is more meaningful.
But aren’t we all so good at pointing the finger at everyone else and not ourselves…?
My curiosity comes from when I did my first roadcraft course which stated that 90% of drivers consider themselves to be above average. I’m sure our perception of how ‘good’ we are, significantly alters how we drive in the first place, and how willing (or not) we are to further our skills. I am sure my last teenage fatality (no other vehicle involved and not around here) would have considered himself to be **the best** driver.
Also you say that ’safe driving isn’t neccessarily about passing tests’ (I agree totally with that bit) ‘or sticking to a set speed’, but you would have had to observe the speed limits to pass your IAM would you not…?
Just because people are advanced or experienced drivers, doesn’t mean they can exempt themselves from speed limits either. I have been trained to drive safely at speed, and have done so for over 12 years without incident. I do not think that this exempts me from any speed limit when not respomding whatsoever, whether I happen to agree with them or not.
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Jane
Yes - I would have had to observe the speed limits to pass the IAM test. I am not saying otherwise. Neither am I, or others on here, suggesting that being an advanced or experienced driver should exempt one from speed limits. What is being said, and has been very clearly stated above more than once, is that fixed speed limits are not always suitable, and adhering to them does not make one a safe driver in itself. Common sense and a degree of intelligence is far more important.
Being able to read plain English and understand an argument such as this also requires a reasonable degree of intelligence. Passing advanced driving tests clearly does not!
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Like I said earlier - …….
Where is the response to all this from the Institute of Adcanced motorists ??
This debate really needs to move to a more professional and progressive platform.
It’s just possible that those drivers who actually think about what they are doing on the road - as amply identified in this thread … might just get heard - and then we might see some common sense being displayed by those authorities responsible for the disgrace on our roads today !
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Unfortunately the roads are being downgraded to compensate for benefit of the less sensible and less capable drivers , it won’t be long before the man with the red flag comes back to stop us all being a danger to ourselves. But even in those days they had fatalities at 4MPH so where do we go from there?????
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